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Hamilton Vs Rosberg - 2013 Part 3


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#51 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:06

Nico would have had a similar issue of keeping Hulk behind on the SC restart, so 'definitely 4th' for him is perhaps a tad hopeful.  Had his wing not failed Hamilton would have pitted on that lap, instead Hamilton had to follow a damaged Nico for 3/4 of a lap and then do another lap whilst the team serviced Nico.  All that put Hamilton behind Kimi on track.  He paid a price too.  I agree it is a stretch to think Hamilton could have taken a podium against either of the Genni cars (not sure if anybody has suggested he could have been 3rd?), but it would have been far easier for him to fight in S1 against them than the Sauber of Hulk.



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#52 apoka

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:08

Here is the head to head comparison:

 

http://en.mclarenf-1...on#.UlE1S9_GyTU

 

Who said Lewis lost 4 seconds because of Rosberg? It looks more like 2 seconds judging from the increased tyre deg he had.

 

Did Rosberg get a call from the pits to let Lewis past? Maybe, it just took him a while to sort out the situation, especially since Lewis was "only" 2 seconds faster, which is often not enough to immediately give up the position within a minute.

 

Just trying to understand the situation, since that was not discussed at all where I watched the race, but seems to be a bigger topic here in the forum.



#53 Rinehart

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:33

In an F1 car you cannot see the front wing. Rosberg was entirely at the mercy of the team that lap his wing broke, in terms of if he could push/should let Lewis past etc. Bashers need to remember the rest of us know a bit about this sport.

 

I think these two guys have had a pretty even season overall. Both had some real high points and low points. If Merc build a challenger in 2014 (I still don't get the logic as to why they are likely to build a Red Bull beater due to new rules - it was the big change in rules last time that brought RB to the front) then as far as I'm concerned they'd BOTH start the season as genuine contenders based on what I've seen this year.


Edited by Rinehart, 06 October 2013 - 10:34.


#54 spacekid

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:40

Yeah... well, Lewis was comprehensively faster on Friday and Saturday, and finished the race ahead, so can't really argue that this wasn't his weekend.

 

However, it wasn't Nico's fault that Lewis burnt his tyre out. It wasn't Nico's fault that his front wing failed either, so I think some of the 'crowing' about Lewis finishing ahead might be missing the bigger picture somewhat. Things could easily have been different.

 

In any case the main thing to take away from this weekend is that Merc still need to figure out how to turn a great qualifying car into a strong race car. I also thought the strategy of keeping Lewis out once his tyre hit the cliff was bizare. We don't hear all the radio traffic but I had sympathy for Lewis when he wanted to come in to the pits - it was obvious he was going to lose a pitstops worth of time before Nico got near the back of him.



#55 undersquare

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 10:52

Don't know why am I even writting her, if Nico is infront Nico wins if Lewis is in front it's a draw, seems like this in this thread.

It's only one poster.

 

Obvious win for Lewis.  Have to say why didn't he block the inside more thoroughly on L1 against Grosjean, that was all really.  They needed to do his first stop 1 lap earlier to pull off the undercut on RG, then the delay for the second stop was ridiculous.  Nico did okay. 



#56 baddog

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:02

 I also thought the strategy of keeping Lewis out once his tyre hit the cliff was bizare. 

 

 

According to the team it would definitely have meant an extra pitstop which would have put him way back in the pack somewhere so they opted to ask him to tough it out.



#57 spacekid

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:29

According to the team it would definitely have meant an extra pitstop which would have put him way back in the pack somewhere so they opted to ask him to tough it out.

 

Cheers :up:

 

I must be honest I hadn't considered traffic in the pack. I'm still not convinced, as fresh tyres and DRS normally cut through the traffic and losing that much time a lap makes saving a pitstop pointless, but what do I know.

 

Overall 5th wasn't bad for what the Merc was capable of in race pace for Lewis. I suspect Nico could have had 4th but sometimes you eat the bar...



#58 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 11:33

The results today is kinda of fair.

 

That first stint Lewis was much quicker, by the middle part of the second stint he was 12 seconds ahead on pure merit. His tyre troubles and Nico's wing evened up the balance in my opinion. Lewis almost lost a pit stop in time with that tyre degradation



#59 Dalton007

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:24

Lewis:

"It's strange, me and Fernando in fifth and sixth having our own little battle. We are of a higher calibre," he said.

"I like battling with Fernando. He's the strongest driver here and really we should be battling at the front with the world champions, with Sebastian."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24419864



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#60 apoka

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:28

 

Lewis:

"It's strange, me and Fernando in fifth and sixth having our own little battle. We are of a higher calibre," he said.

 

That could be perceived as arrogant (had Vettel said that).



#61 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:30

That could be perceived as arrogant (had Vettel said that).

Personally, I would allow all 3 (Lewis, Alonso and Seb) to say that and not deem it arrogant, as I think all 3 would not be delusional in stating that viewpoint.



#62 slmk

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:30

The results today is kinda of fair.

 

That first stint Lewis was much quicker, by the middle part of the second stint he was 12 seconds ahead on pure merit. His tyre troubles and Nico's wing evened up the balance in my opinion. Lewis almost lost a pit stop in time with that tyre degradation

 

He actually lost a pitstop. The gap to GRO, by the time HAM pitted, was circa 21-22 seconds, which is the duration of a pit stop.



#63 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:34

He actually lost a pitstop. The gap to GRO, by the time HAM pitted, was circa 21-22 seconds, which is the duration of a pit stop.

Good maths my man.



#64 apoka

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:35

The results today is kinda of fair.

 

That first stint Lewis was much quicker, by the middle part of the second stint he was 12 seconds ahead on pure merit. His tyre troubles and Nico's wing evened up the balance in my opinion. Lewis almost lost a pit stop in time with that tyre degradation

 

But you have to admit that the wing wasn't really Rosberg's fault whereas the tyre troubles are at least partially down to the driver. When Rosberg passed him, he had fresher tyres and track position, so I think in SC free race after that, it's likely that Rosberg finishes ahead of him. In this sense, mathematically the faster laps of Hamilton gained him less time over Rosberg than the higher tyre deg cost him.

 

Anyway, I think both drivers were good today, although not extra-ordinary. What really screwed them is reliability and strategy.



#65 apoka

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:39

Personally, I would allow all 3 (Lewis, Alonso and Seb) to say that and not deem it arrogant, as I think all 3 would not be delusional in stating that viewpoint.

 

Probably right considering that most people rate Hamilton higher than 5th or 6th best. However, as soon as Hamilton is in some off track trouble, this quote will be used against him (same as for Vettel and Alonso).



#66 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:45

But you have to admit that the wing wasn't really Rosberg's fault whereas the tyre troubles are at least partially down to the driver. When Rosberg passed him, he had fresher tyres and track position, so I think in SC free race after that, it's likely that Rosberg finishes ahead of him. In this sense, mathematically the faster laps of Hamilton gained him less time over Rosberg than the higher tyre deg cost him.

 

Anyway, I think both drivers were good today, although not extra-ordinary. What really screwed them is reliability and strategy.

I think this all centers around if you think the tyre issue was Lewis' fault. Lewis built up a lead in the first stint on tyres and had no issue, he was just flat out faster in the first stint, until the issues arose in the second stint

 

I think it was the car struggling to handle the tyres, but I will not dismiss other totally who think otherwise.


Edited by sennafan24, 06 October 2013 - 13:47.


#67 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 13:46

But you have to admit that the wing wasn't really Rosberg's fault whereas the tyre troubles are at least partially down to the driver. When Rosberg passed him, he had fresher tyres and track position, so I think in SC free race after that, it's likely that Rosberg finishes ahead of him. In this sense, mathematically the faster laps of Hamilton gained him less time over Rosberg than the higher tyre deg cost him.

 

Anyway, I think both drivers were good today, although not extra-ordinary. What really screwed them is reliability and strategy.

but it's strange that Hamilton could keep the medium tyres at FPs longer alive than anyone else, And in the race one failed after 13 laps, maybe tyre pressure or the set wasn't as good as others. Nontheless it's stupid that you get punished in a race trying to race because the tyres are too weak.

It's better to wait & cruise and hope your tyres last a few laps longer than to race and fight



#68 apoka

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:18

I think this all centers around if you think the tyre issue was Lewis' fault. Lewis built up a lead in the first stint on tyres and had no issue, he was just flat out faster in the first stint, until the issues arose in the second stint

 

I think it was the car struggling to handle the tyres, but I will not dismiss other totally who think otherwise.

 

but it's strange that Hamilton could keep the medium tyres at FPs longer alive than anyone else, And in the race one failed after 13 laps, maybe tyre pressure or the set wasn't as good as others. Nontheless it's stupid that you get punished in a race trying to race because the tyres are too weak.

It's better to wait & cruise and hope your tyres last a few laps longer than to race and fight

 

Good points from both of you. Hamilton build a 5 second gap in the first stint and extended this to 12 seconds in the second stint. After that, the gap dramatically decreased by a bit more than 2 seconds per lap. It could be either a faulty set of tyres, incorrect pressure etc. or it could also be that Hamilton pushed too hard to keep up with Grosjean. However, he was mostly not directly in the slipstream of Grosjean after a few laps into the second stint, so it is not likely to be an overheating issue (although I cannot rule it out). As Raven8 said, it could be case of cruising and extending the stint simply being overall faster than attacking (no surprise this year). Credits to Hamilton on raw laptime and to Rosberg on excellent tyre management. 



#69 garoidb

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:25

 

Lewis:

"It's strange, me and Fernando in fifth and sixth having our own little battle. We are of a higher calibre," he said.

"I like battling with Fernando. He's the strongest driver here and really we should be battling at the front with the world champions, with Sebastian."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24419864

 

 

 

Personally, I would allow all 3 (Lewis, Alonso and Seb) to say that and not deem it arrogant, as I think all 3 would not be delusional in stating that viewpoint.

 

 

Probably right considering that most people rate Hamilton higher than 5th or 6th best. However, as soon as Hamilton is in some off track trouble, this quote will be used against him (same as for Vettel and Alonso).

 

He has a chance of getting back into the top three in the WDC again this season, but he is currently 4th. To be safe, it is better to call Lewis a top four driver and include Kimi in the elite class too. Kimi certainly deserves it. 



#70 redreni

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:29

Nontheless it's stupid that you get punished in a race trying to race because the tyres are too weak.

Them‘s the rules, though. It‘s the same for everyone. And to say it‘s "strange" for Hamilton to destroy a set of tyres in 13 laps is just comical - he has been consistently more prone to do that than almost any other driver on the grid right the way through his career to date.

Qualy was clearly Hamilton‘s. But points are on Sunday, and the only reason Hamilton outscored Rosberg today is Rosberg‘s wing failure. The SC periods also played into Hamilton‘s hands because, without them, he would have been dog slow at the end having made such an early second stop. He‘d been screaming at the team to call him in for two laps before Rosberg passed him but they were reluctant to do so because they knew they would struggle to get to the end, but in the end the laps run under the SC meant nobody struggled particularly for tyres at the end.

In a normal race, with no wing failure and no SC, Rosberg was in a commanding position as he was sweeping past Hamilton. Okay, Hamilton would have re-taken the place from Rosberg at the second stops by dint of pitting earlier, but only by pitting well before his target lap. Rosberg would have pitted when he was supposed to and then sat 10-odd seconds behind Hamilton waiting for him to run out of tyres, at which point he‘d have breezed past.

And I must say I find it amusing that people are saying Rosberg should have yielded on his inlap following his wing failure. His view on that would be the same as any other driver: "if I‘m that slow, let him pass me". The pit wall knew that Hamilton‘s tyres were shot, so it‘s a bit much to expect them, in real time, to work out that Hamilton was being held up. And anyway, if I‘d been in Brawn‘s position I would have preferred to see Rosberg ahead on the inlap because of the risk of the front wing going under the car: with Rosberg ahead, such an event would eliminate Rosberg, but with Hamilton ahead, a loss of front braking and steering for Rosberg could easily have taken them both out.

Edited by redreni, 06 October 2013 - 14:32.


#71 mardmarium

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:30

 

Lewis:

"It's strange, me and Fernando in fifth and sixth having our own little battle. We are of a higher calibre," he said.

"I like battling with Fernando. He's the strongest driver here and really we should be battling at the front with the world champions, with Sebastian."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/24419864

 

 

I have to say that I agree with Lewis. I don´t think he is arrogant, just honest. They should be battling at the front with the world champions, Vettel and Raikkonen as well, he is right saying so. 



#72 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:32

He has a chance of getting back into the top three in the WDC again this season, but he is currently 4th. To be safe, it is better to call Lewis a top four driver and include Kimi in the elite class too. Kimi certainly deserves it. 

I will yield to that  :up:



#73 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:34

Them‘s the rules, though. It‘s the same for everyone. And to say it‘s "strange" for Hamilton to destroy a set of tyres in 13 laps is just comical - he has been consistently more prone to do that than almost any other driver on the grid right the way through his career to date.

 

Perez I would say is worse.

 

Again, I just think it was the car today, it has struggled this year in handling tyres . Do not get me wrong, I half agree that Lewis is not the greatest at tyre management, but today I just think his car could not handle the track well, same goes for Nico with his wing failure.



#74 jjcale

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:37

Another disappointing weekend for both ...... should have been at least 2nd and 3rd based on what they have their disposal.



#75 TomNokoe

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 14:54

I'm tempted to give a non score but is that even a thing? Both drivers had bizarre issues, time loss was probably equal after Rosberg's slow pit stop.

#76 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:03

Another disappointing weekend for both ...... should have been at least 2nd and 3rd based on what they have their disposal.

Come on guv, the car let at least one of them down, I think both were a victim of shaky machinery.



#77 Watkins74

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:09

No need for this lowish posts. I agree Lewis wins this one.

Yes you are very objective and not acknowlodging Rosberg's front wing problem.

 

Because they are so blind with love focused on one driver they see it as Hamilton losing time because of Rosberg's broken wing not Nico. Their eyes are unable to see how long Rosberg was in the pit as they struggled to get the broken wing off.


Edited by Watkins74, 06 October 2013 - 15:12.


#78 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:13

Because they are so blind with love focused on one driver they see it as Hamilton losing time because of Rosberg's broken wing not Nico. They eyes are unable to see how long Rosberg was in the pit as they struggled to get the broken wing off.

It works this way with fans of all drivers though, there is always going to be a bit of subjective bias to every post.

 

Some fans are just more balanced than others, it is not really exclusive to the driver they support though. I see posters who may as well just post "Ahhh I hate Lewis Hamilton" or "Vettel has never ever ever put a foot wrong" and the other way round quite often.



#79 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:38

Them‘s the rules, though. It‘s the same for everyone. And to say it‘s "strange" for Hamilton to destroy a set of tyres in 13 laps is just comical - he has been consistently more prone to do that than almost any other driver on the grid right the way through his career to date.

 

It's perfectly credible to label it as "strange" as he never suffered during the free practices or his final stint on the tyres.  They literally dropped off the cliff, or one tyre did in any case.  The team thought at first it was just graining, but not so.  So whilst LH may be heavier on his tyres now and again than his teammates (let's ignore when it's the other way about) it's abnormal for it to show to such great a degree as it did today.



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#80 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:42

He has a chance of getting back into the top three in the WDC again this season, but he is currently 4th. To be safe, it is better to call Lewis a top four driver and include Kimi in the elite class too. Kimi certainly deserves it. 

Before Korea he was 3rd: Kimi does not deserve it more or less



#81 TomNokoe

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:43

Hamilton isn't harder on his tyres, that is a myth. Personally I think Mercedes were caught out by the higher wear rates today, as all teams, and were slightly unaware as their issues were the first of the afternoon. Yes, Hamilton probably drove too hard, but that's because in free practice the tyres were very good, it would have happened in the hands of any driver, this is Pirelli.

#82 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:44

Because they are so blind with love focused on one driver they see it as Hamilton losing time because of Rosberg's broken wing not Nico. Their eyes are unable to see how long Rosberg was in the pit as they struggled to get the broken wing off.

 

The problem is that both sides are arguing with only one eye open.  Both of their races could have been better.  Had Nico continued on he may well have finished ahead of his teammate.  Had LH been able to pit on the lap in which Nico did he may well have maintained position ahead of Kimi.  Such a scenario would have kept him positionally out of reach of the Hulk on the SC restarts, and as a consequence more room to stretch the car in the mid sector.  The whole situation of Nico's wing failure prevented a 3-way battle for 3rd beteen NR, LH and Kimi (although in that you would have to favour Kimi based on team Genni's better tyre usage).



#83 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:47

Them‘s the rules, though. It‘s the same for everyone. And to say it‘s "strange" for Hamilton to destroy a set of tyres in 13 laps is just comical - he has been consistently more prone to do that than almost any other driver on the grid right the way through his career to date.

Qualy was clearly Hamilton‘s. But points are on Sunday, and the only reason Hamilton outscored Rosberg today is Rosberg‘s wing failure. The SC periods also played into Hamilton‘s hands because, without them, he would have been dog slow at the end having made such an early second stop. He‘d been screaming at the team to call him in for two laps before Rosberg passed him but they were reluctant to do so because they knew they would struggle to get to the end, but in the end the laps run under the SC meant nobody struggled particularly for tyres at the end.

In a normal race, with no wing failure and no SC, Rosberg was in a commanding position as he was sweeping past Hamilton. Okay, Hamilton would have re-taken the place from Rosberg at the second stops by dint of pitting earlier, but only by pitting well before his target lap. Rosberg would have pitted when he was supposed to and then sat 10-odd seconds behind Hamilton waiting for him to run out of tyres, at which point he‘d have breezed past.

And I must say I find it amusing that people are saying Rosberg should have yielded on his inlap following his wing failure. His view on that would be the same as any other driver: "if I‘m that slow, let him pass me". The pit wall knew that Hamilton‘s tyres were shot, so it‘s a bit much to expect them, in real time, to work out that Hamilton was being held up. And anyway, if I‘d been in Brawn‘s position I would have preferred to see Rosberg ahead on the inlap because of the risk of the front wing going under the car: with Rosberg ahead, such an event would eliminate Rosberg, but with Hamilton ahead, a loss of front braking and steering for Rosberg could easily have taken them both out.

 

Is that you Nico?  :rotfl:



#84 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 15:58

Them‘s the rules, though. It‘s the same for everyone. And to say it‘s "strange" for Hamilton to destroy a set of tyres in 13 laps is just comical - he has been consistently more prone to do that than almost any other driver on the grid right the way through his career to date.

Qualy was clearly Hamilton‘s. But points are on Sunday, and the only reason Hamilton outscored Rosberg today is Rosberg‘s wing failure. The SC periods also played into Hamilton‘s hands because, without them, he would have been dog slow at the end having made such an early second stop. He‘d been screaming at the team to call him in for two laps before Rosberg passed him but they were reluctant to do so because they knew they would struggle to get to the end, but in the end the laps run under the SC meant nobody struggled particularly for tyres at the end.

In a normal race, with no wing failure and no SC, Rosberg was in a commanding position as he was sweeping past Hamilton. Okay, Hamilton would have re-taken the place from Rosberg at the second stops by dint of pitting earlier, but only by pitting well before his target lap. Rosberg would have pitted when he was supposed to and then sat 10-odd seconds behind Hamilton waiting for him to run out of tyres, at which point he‘d have breezed past.

And I must say I find it amusing that people are saying Rosberg should have yielded on his inlap following his wing failure. His view on that would be the same as any other driver: "if I‘m that slow, let him pass me". The pit wall knew that Hamilton‘s tyres were shot, so it‘s a bit much to expect them, in real time, to work out that Hamilton was being held up. And anyway, if I‘d been in Brawn‘s position I would have preferred to see Rosberg ahead on the inlap because of the risk of the front wing going under the car: with Rosberg ahead, such an event would eliminate Rosberg, but with Hamilton ahead, a loss of front braking and steering for Rosberg could easily have taken them both out.

Thats nonsense, the tyre destroyer myth was put to death last year & this year, too, when he was able to handle the more delicate Pirellis better than his smoother team mates

If you call Hamilton a tyre destroyer, you can call Rosberg a car destroyer. IMO Hamilton gor a bad set of mediums at this stint. It happens with those tyres. There have been races where rosbergs tyres went of earlier than Hamiltons this season, but nobody seems to remember this.

 

About driving on the racing line with a broken car, when a driver has a puncture or another problem , he has to move over, too. It was quite selfish from Rosberg to block the racing line while limping back.You other claim about it was better Rosberg in front when his wing hung down is silly, too. If Rosbergs wing would have broken down the driver behind could have hit by debris or Rosberg, too.

BTW it was Brundle who said Lewis was held up from Rosberg, and it cost him time



#85 redreni

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:03

It's perfectly credible to label it as "strange" as he never suffered during the free practices or his final stint on the tyres.  They literally dropped off the cliff, or one tyre did in any case.  The team thought at first it was just graining, but not so.  So whilst LH may be heavier on his tyres now and again than his teammates (let's ignore when it's the other way about) it's abnormal for it to show to such great a degree as it did today.


You weren‘t listening to Rosberg‘s team radio in the last stint, then, when they told him Hamilton "overstressed his front right leading to high wear" and warned him not to do the same?

And I‘m fully aware that Hamilton does not always wear his tyres faster than his team-mate. There have been races where Rosberg has struggled more, and it was the same story at Mclaren. What you don‘t ever see with Rosberg or Button, but you do with Hamilton, is them destroying tyres in a handful of laps.

#86 redreni

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:13

Thats nonsense, the tyre destroyer myth was put to death last year & this year, too, when he was able to handle the more delicate Pirellis better than his smoother team mates
If you call Hamilton a tyre destroyer, you can call Rosberg a car destroyer. IMO Hamilton gor a bad set of mediums at this stint. It happens with those tyres. There have been races where rosbergs tyres went of earlier than Hamiltons this season, but nobody seems to remember this.
 
About driving on the racing line with a broken car, when a driver has a puncture or another problem , he has to move over, too. It was quite selfish from Rosberg to block the racing line while limping back.You other claim about it was better Rosberg in front when his wing hung down is silly, too. If Rosbergs wing would have broken down the driver behind could have hit by debris or Rosberg, too.
BTW it was Brundle who said Lewis was held up from Rosberg, and it cost him time


All drivers do exactly the same thing if they have a damaged front wing: keep going, push, pit if instructed. Why on earth would anybody pull off line and slow down when they don‘t have to? It‘s an absurd suggestion. If the damage was as bad as you are making out Rosberg would not have been able to keep Hamilton behind. There is no rule saying Rosberg could not continue to push on his inlap just because his wing had failed.

#87 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:13

You weren‘t listening to Rosberg‘s team radio in the last stint, then, when they told him Hamilton "overstressed his front right leading to high wear" and warned him not to do the same?

And I‘m fully aware that Hamilton does not always wear his tyres faster than his team-mate. There have been races where Rosberg has struggled more, and it was the same story at Mclaren. What you don‘t ever see with Rosberg or Button, but you do with Hamilton, is them destroying tyres in a handful of laps.

 

Yeah i recall Nico refusing team advice to push in Singapore. If you don't push, you don't destroy your tyres. Maybe that it modern racing, the nature of the current F1 beast ... maybe Lewis should not push and settle for mid field positions and a lucky win once in a while like Nico and Button do. But if he did that, why wouldn't his fans just opt for Nico and Button and get over with it anyway?



#88 undersquare

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:15

You weren‘t listening to Rosberg‘s team radio in the last stint, then, when they told him Hamilton "overstressed his front right leading to high wear" and warned him not to do the same?

And I‘m fully aware that Hamilton does not always wear his tyres faster than his team-mate. There have been races where Rosberg has struggled more, and it was the same story at Mclaren. What you don‘t ever see with Rosberg or Button, but you do with Hamilton, is them destroying tyres in a handful of laps.

Hamilton went through his tyres too fast because he burned them in his outlap trying to get the undercut on Grosjean, and then he attacked Grosjean when that failed.  But the reason he didn't get the undercut is that the team left it a lap too late for that first change making Lewis  too slow on his inlap on the worn options.



#89 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:16

You weren‘t listening to Rosberg‘s team radio in the last stint, then, when they told him Hamilton "overstressed his front right leading to high wear" and warned him not to do the same?

And I‘m fully aware that Hamilton does not always wear his tyres faster than his team-mate. There have been races where Rosberg has struggled more, and it was the same story at Mclaren. What you don‘t ever see with Rosberg or Button, but you do with Hamilton, is them destroying tyres in a handful of laps.

 

I was.  What was stated was that Hamilton was overheating his front right in turn 12, which may have been due to the proximity in which he was following Grosjean early in the second stint.  In any case it seems that the issue then swung to being unable to get any heat into the tyre.  Graining was suspected initially, which may have delayed the team reaction on strategy therefore making staying out the only possibility.  Pirelli tyres tend to 'fall off the cliff', to varying degrees.  Hamilton suffered a vertical fall today.  You can blame that entirely on him, or accept that it's a common theme with the Pirelli's over the last few years.

 

As for your last paragraph, please define a 'handful of laps' for us?   I sense you are on the side of exaggeration rather than rational debate.  And you only have to go back to India last year to discount your claim with regards JB (edit- or in fact Silverstone this season).


Edited by P123, 06 October 2013 - 16:19.


#90 Boxerevo

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:16

Ok...now i will talk about Lewis driving.

 

Lewis got too timid in starts and restarts,look at the start for example...why he didn't try a more agressive approach closer to the racing line,there was plenty of space but he didn't want to risk a grosjean on grosjean.

 

But with this he got a null exit of T1 and got owned.

 

Hamilton got more careful in order to be more consistent in points,but losing ruthless pays price too... was very clear to me how he activated Beast mode against Alonso but not against Hulk.

 

Lewis has a trademark move that is,when trying to overtake he shows up in the mirror of the guy ahead to make the guy lose focus on his on racing line.

 

The problem is,if the driver ahead just don't give a f... is Hamilton that is doing a not perfect line and therefore being exposed to a driver behind like Alonso get him later.

 

Hamilton didn't try one time do the normal racing line there in T1 hunting Hulk and i really would like to know why this,i know that even doing a better exit he wouldn't pass in the DRS zone...but why risk his position to Alonso knowing that Hulk wouldn't fall for the trick.

 

But anyway i am more pissed with the passive defense modus operandi,only with Alonso he put the hammer out.


Edited by Boxerevo, 06 October 2013 - 16:20.


#91 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:17

All drivers do exactly the same thing if they have a damaged front wing: keep going, push, pit if instructed. Why on earth would anybody pull off line and slow down when they don‘t have to? It‘s an absurd suggestion. If the damage was as bad as you are making out Rosberg would not have been able to keep Hamilton behind. There is no rule saying Rosberg could not continue to push on his inlap just because his wing had failed.

 

I believe there is the one that can get a car black flagged? (ok there is an orange circle in there somewhere i think)



#92 SpaMaster

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:18

Just wanted to put in a word of support for Rosberg. I think he was very good today. It looks he had his car better set up for race and easily had the measure of Hamilton until his front-wing failed. It has always been very tight with Mercedes. They spend a lot of time on race pace preparation to get the balance right. often the driver that does well in qualy seem to suffer a bit more in the race. This weekend I thought Rosberg made the right choice. Impressive drive by him.



#93 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:22

Just wanted to put in a word of support for Rosberg. I think he was very good today. It looks he had his car better set up for race and easily had the measure of Hamilton until his front-wing failed. It has always been very tight with Mercedes. They spend a lot of time on race pace preparation to get the balance right. often the driver that does well in qualy seem to suffer a bit more in the race. This weekend I thought Rosberg made the right choice. Impressive drive by him.

 

The SC negated Nico's time loss in the pits.  For a driver who 'had the measure' of his teammate I'm surprised that he was then unable to challenge his teammate whom was being held up in the final stint.



#94 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:26

Ok...now i will talk about Lewis driving.

 

Lewis got too timid in starts and restarts,look at the start for example...why he didn't try a more agressive approach closer to the racing line,there was plenty of space but he didn't want to risk a grosjean on grosjean.

 

But with this he got a null exit of T1 and got owned.

 

Hamilton got more careful in order to be more consistent in points,but losing ruthless pays price too... was very clear to me how he activated Beast mode against Alonso but not against Hulk.

 

Lewis has a trademark move that is,when trying to overtake he shows up in the mirror of the guy ahead to make the guy lose focus on his on racing line.

 

The problem is,if the driver ahead just don't give a f... is Hamilton that is doing a not perfect line and therefore being exposed to a driver behind like Alonso get him later.

 

Hamilton didn't try one time do the normal racing line there in T1 hunting Hulk and i really would like to know why this,i know that even doing a better exit he wouldn't pass in the DRS zone...but why risk his position to Alonso knowing that Hulk wouldn't fall for the trick.

 

But anyway i am more pissed with the passive defense modus operandi,only with Alonso he put the hammer out.

 

I think all drivers are passive now when it comes to DRS breeze by's.

 

But I agree with your view on turn 1, albeit I don't think he was taking a different line to Nico.  The inside kerb seemed to unsettle the Merc more, which hampered corner exit on to the straight in comparison to the Sauber.  Thought he might have tried a wider line to avoid that.



#95 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:31

 

 

 

Hamilton got more careful in order to be more consistent in points,but losing ruthless pays price too... was very clear to me how he activated Beast mode against Alonso but not against Hulk.

 

 

I agree with most of what you wrote, but I think Lewis was just lost with how good the traction was on the Sauber, I think no matter what Lewis would have done, the car dynamics were against him on that one.

 

I agree he really needs to work on his starts.



#96 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:36

All drivers do exactly the same thing if they have a damaged front wing: keep going, push, pit if instructed. Why on earth would anybody pull off line and slow down when they don‘t have to? It‘s an absurd suggestion. If the damage was as bad as you are making out Rosberg would not have been able to keep Hamilton behind. There is no rule saying Rosberg could not continue to push on his inlap just because his wing had failed.

No  drivers with a dammaged car must leave the racing line if there is traffic. It'wasn't me who said on Sky it was very dangerous what Rosberg was doing, and that he held up Hamilton. Maybe the team should have told Rosberg to move over. Especially when your team mate is the car wich is held up. Rosberg was due to pit, while Hamilton was forced to stay out, neither of them would have lost time when NR had Hamilton let past.



#97 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:40

No  drivers with a dammaged car must leave the racing line if there is traffic. It'wasn't me who said on Sky it was very dangerous what Rosberg was doing, and that he held up Hamilton. Maybe the team should have told Rosberg to move over. Especially when your team mate is the car wich is held up. Rosberg was due to pit, while Hamilton was forced to stay out, neither of them would have lost time when NR had Hamilton let past.

 

All of it happened in little over a minute.  Nico was holding his teammate up, but was fast enough to stay ahead.  Hindsight says he could have let his teammate through, but it's asking a lot for the team to communicate that and Rosberg to react to the instruction in that period of time, especially as it wasn't hindering him to a great extent.



#98 sennafan24

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:42

No  drivers with a dammaged car must leave the racing line if there is traffic. It'wasn't me who said on Sky it was very dangerous what Rosberg was doing, and that he held up Hamilton. Maybe the team should have told Rosberg to move over. Especially when your team mate is the car wich is held up. Rosberg was due to pit, while Hamilton was forced to stay out, neither of them would have lost time when NR had Hamilton let past.

Both Mercedes were sick animals at this stage though, Nico's was worse but Lewis's car was going slower than the back-markers also. Plus there is a chance Nico did not see the sparks and was unaware how dangerous the whole situation was, SKY brought this up. 

 

On Lewis's tyres, surely when they did practice runs they should have figured out Lewis was stressing the tyres at that corner? I think it was just a game day occurence that was not the drivers fault. I think the Merc was a fragile machine today, this was confirmed when Nico's wing came undone.



#99 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:43

Ok...now i will talk about Lewis driving.

 

Lewis got too timid in starts and restarts,look at the start for example...why he didn't try a more agressive approach closer to the racing line,there was plenty of space but he didn't want to risk a grosjean on grosjean.

 

But with this he got a null exit of T1 and got owned.

 

Hamilton got more careful in order to be more consistent in points,but losing ruthless pays price too... was very clear to me how he activated Beast mode against Alonso but not against Hulk.

 

Lewis has a trademark move that is,when trying to overtake he shows up in the mirror of the guy ahead to make the guy lose focus on his on racing line.

 

The problem is,if the driver ahead just don't give a f... is Hamilton that is doing a not perfect line and therefore being exposed to a driver behind like Alonso get him later.

 

Hamilton didn't try one time do the normal racing line there in T1 hunting Hulk and i really would like to know why this,i know that even doing a better exit he wouldn't pass in the DRS zone...but why risk his position to Alonso knowing that Hulk wouldn't fall for the trick.

 

But anyway i am more pissed with the passive defense modus operandi,only with Alonso he put the hammer out.

Scars from  2011, since than he never was as aggressive as before. Remember what anyone threw at Hamilton 2011. Or even 2012 at Valencia when Maldonado drove into him?

IMO Lewis does not risk such a situation anymore since than



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#100 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 16:48

Both Mercedes were sick animals at this stage though, Nico's was worse but Lewis's car was going slower than the back-markers also. Plus there is a chance Nico did not see the sparks and was unaware how dangerous the whole situation was, SKY brought this up. 

 

On Lewis's tyres, surely when they did practice runs they should have figured out Lewis was stressing the tyres at that corner? I think it was just a game day occurence that was not the drivers fault. I think the Merc was a fragile machine today, this was confirmed when Nico's wing came undone.

He saw the sparks, as he said in the interview  "Suddenly I saw the sparks flying..."

I see it more as the teams mistake  than Rosbergs , who of course doesn't  want to move from the racing line for his team mate.