17 replies to this topic

[HistoryBuff]

I was doing research into the former Scott grundfor 300SLS roadster, since sold, which actually was a re-numbered 1952 factory racing car 00009/52.  I contend that the three cars photogrpahed by David Douglas Duncan for Colliers were all 300SLS cars but saw a mention in a magazine that only two were made, though the magazine shows three in convoy crossing the Alps on a test run (dramatic photos by the way, the drivers wearing those leather or cloth helmets and goggles with racing windscreens). Then I read that Paul O'Shea and Georg Tilp had lightweight (alluminum bodied?) 300SLs or were they steel bodied cars that went through a weight reduction program? Anyway they sewed up the SCCA Class D  championship and I was wondering how they could run as production cars if all the rest of the 300SL roadsters were steel bodied? In a story by Dennis Adler it says the two O'Shea/Tilp factory prepared roadsters disappeared into the sands of time.

 

So reducing it to questions:

-how many factory 300SLS cars were made?

-Are the O'Shea-Tilp SCCA roadsters part of that run?

-Were the O'Shea-Tilp cars alloy bodied and how did that make them production cars?

 

Thanks for any advice,

 

[Tim Murray]

This earlier thread may be of interest:

 

Paul O'Shea Mercedes 300SLS

[David Birchall]

Apparently there were 29 alloy bodied 300SLs-it was a factory option.  I recall one here in Vancouver in the seventies.

[RA Historian]

Then I read that Paul O'Shea and Georg Tilp had lightweight (alluminum bodied?) 300SLs or were they steel bodied cars that went through a weight reduction program? Anyway they sewed up the SCCA Class D  championship and I was wondering how they could run as production cars if all the rest of the 300SL roadsters were steel bodied?

 

You are confusing several cars. O'Shea used a fairly standard 300-SL coupe to win the DP SCCA championship c 1955-56. In 1957 he drove a 300-SL roadster in the DM category because the new roadster was not yet homologated by the SCCA. He won the DM title that year.

[karlcars]

I'm away from home at the moment but these cars are described in detail in my book Mercedes-Bens -- Qucksilver Century.

 

They are also shown in my Iconografix book on the 300SLs.

 

-- Karl L.

[cabianca]

If you will refer to the link above provided by Tim Murray, I think your inquiry will be answered. There were no Mercedes SLS cars, at least not by factory designation. As has been pointed out. O'Shea won the production class with 300 SL coupes. Then, he won the D Modified class in a roadster that was either not homologated (think it was) or modified to a point where it could not be classified as a production car and was placed in D Modified (same class as a 300S Maserati). Nonetheless, by dint of participating in the bulk of the championship races around the country, O'Shea amassed enough points to win the championship. There were two modified roadsters in the US, their serial numbers are known and they have never resurfaced. As I say, refer to Murray's link for elaboration on this information and much more.

[raceannouncer2003]

The 1956 Collier's article (I was just given that edition) seems to refer to the 300SL prototype as the SLS (Super Light Special).  Here is the link:

 

http://www.scottgrun...0sls-prototype/

 

Vince H.

[D-Type]

The 1956 Collier's article (I was just given that edition) seems to refer to the 300SL prototype as the SLS (Super Light Special).  Here is the link:

 

http://www.scottgrun...0sls-prototype/

 

Vince H.

I'm not too impressed with Scott Grundfor's research ability.  He says

David Douglas Duncan is an American photojournalist .... He was a photographer for Life Magazine during World War II, Korea and Vietnam and developed, along with Leica, what was to become the modern SLR camera that all subsequent journalists/photographers used for the next 50 years.

 

Leica were famous for high quality rangefinder cameras.  Their first SLR camera, the Leicaflex, was introduced in 1964.  It wasn't exactly pioneering as it was preceded by the Kine Exakta in 1936, Praktika and the Zeiss Contax in 1949, Asahiflex in 1953 and the Miranda and other Japanese SLRs from 1955.  And there were non-35mm SLR cameras before that.  If he gets something as basic as that wrong, what hope for the rest of his article?

 

Admittedly, the Dennis Adler article Grundfor references does refer to the 1957 lightweight 300SL roadster as a "300SLS" but I wouldn't consider that a definitive and trustworthy source

[HistoryBuff]

I respectfully disagree with Cabianca, or else why , if you Google Mercedes 300SLS coupled with the name Paul 'O'Shea do you come up with this picture clearly labeled from the Daimler Benz archives labeled 30SLS?

 

http://media.daimler...kZXg9NQ!!&rs=14

 

I have a theory that the car has

a.alloy frame

or

b.magnesium frame

or

c.magnesium body

 

and even though it was not run as a production car, MB did not want it known it had any of the above so destroyed it. I also heard at first there was only one roadster run by the O'Shea-Tilp team but, after smashing it, they sent it back to Tilp's shop and it appeared miraculously restored only a week later, proof that there were two. I don't know if they thereafter appeared together, but I have seen a picture of the two side by side at a race with the number "3" in the roundels on both cars.

[RogerFrench]

And I have a theory that, not for the first time, today's Daimler publicity doesn't always get it right.

[DCapps]

And I have a theory that, not for the first time, today's Daimler publicity doesn't always get it right.

 

I think that I would have to agree with that suggestion...

[fbarrett]

I doubt that DBAG would have destroyed these cars because they had magnesium parts/bodies. After all, they kept the similarly-lightweight-bodied 300SLRs, W196s plus a lot less valuable and less unusual cars.

 

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 05 October 2016 - 21:44.

[HistoryBuff]

But they weren't racing the 300SLRs after the accident. In fact they gave one of them away to a British Museum (which later on sold it) So I can see where, if it had a magnesium body or magnesium framed they did not want some rich but unskilled driver smashing it and thus causing the media to call up images of LeMans in '55. I would give up looking for these cars but a 300SL restorer in Vancouver told me he has been looking for 40 years so if he's still looking, I'm still looking...confusing things is that several owners of 300SL roadsters have converted their steel bodied cars to the 300SLS look.

[Robin Fairservice]

Mercedes gave a Formula One car (not a 300 SLR) to the Montague Motor Museum at Beaulieu. I have a photo of it bearing number Ten, next to a BRM, which I took in 1959. As said the museum sold it, to I believe someone in the USA who I beieve tried to run it at Indianapolis.

[Tim Murray]

As Robin says, Daimler-Benz never gave (or loaned) any of the 300SLRs to a British Museum. Currently one is in the National Automobile Museum at Mulhouse (formerly the Schlumpf collection) and one is in the Deutsches Museum in Munich. The rest are retained by DB, although earlier this year we discussed the possibility that Bruce McCaw might have come to some sort of arrangement with DB on one of them:

Are all Mercedes 300SLR in a museum, or are any in private hands?

The W196 was sold by the National Motor Museum to Anthony Bamford. It then passed via Jacky Setton and Friedhelm Loh to someone in the Middle East, who in 2013 sold it at a record price to (allegedly) someone in Russia. It never ran at Indianapolis.

Mercedes-Benz W196 offered at auction

[arttidesco]

And I have a theory that, not for the first time, today's Daimler publicity doesn't always get it right.

You have hit the nail on the head as Mr Nye has pointed out on at least one occasion I can think of.

I am no expert on the DM cars run by Tilp but have the impression they were heavily works supported which included 2 works technicians to help run them.

The reason the works supplied Tilp with all of the assistance was because in the aftermath of Le Mans MB had officially withdrawn from all competition at the end of 1955.

[Cynic2]

At the risk of digging up a much earlier post, in the 1980s I edited two magazine articles written by Dennis Adler, on a marque I knew pretty well.

 

Mr. Adler is a very good photographer.

 

[RA Historian]

Got it.