710 replies to this topic

[Fontainebleau]

I am equally surprised that I have to point this out:  we don't all have the same audio feed and so we did not all hear Pedro.  We are not psychic, so we have to take what you say as including all of the total facts.  You make it a waste of time by not giving full information with your posts.  If Pedro said this at the beginning of the race, then it doesn't matter at all because at that stage RBR was planning for Seb and Mark to both do a 2 stop strategy.  The 3 stop developed when Mark's tyres went off early.   And of course Pedro could not have taken tyres into consideration because he would not know which tyres would be used by the drivers and when.

From this same thread:

 

 

At the beginning of the race, De la Rosa was explaining on the Spanish TV that a two-stop strategy was the optimal strategy in ths race, about 10 to 15 secs faster than a three-stop one.

 

Webber's strategy was not spot on; it was a sub-optimal one. And he was given it when he was leading the race. 

 

I have nothing about team orders, but let's call a spade a spade.

[EvanRainer]

I think today was an consumate demonstration of how the RBR is engineered towards Vettel, to the detriment of Webber.  Vettel, on the prime tyre, drove past Grojean as though he wasn't even there.  Yet Webber, on new Option tyres and with Grojean's Prime tyres several laps older than the Vettel overtake, couldn't overtake for several laps; with a significant traction deficiency to Grojean in the key areas.  Once Webber was past he took 3 seconds out of him in 3 laps, and 4 out of Vettel.  Webber is one of the best in the paddock at overtaking, far better than Vettel and up there with Lewis and Fernando.  I feel sorry for Riccardo next season because he's a great driver, and he's about to become another Massa - second fiddle (except in emergencies).  At least Kimi going to Ferrari will stir that pot a little.

 

I would like to see all the technical drawings for the cars published after the first 8 races, to give the smaller teams, without the budgets to spend on the Newey's or the Lowe's, have the opportunity to benefit from some of their expertise.

 

Webber may have been good at overtaking once upon a time, but the last couple of years he has been one of the worst in the field.

 

Today in at least a couple of cases that I noticed, he made mistakes in trying to set up the pass behind RG. His line through Spoon was crap(too tight) and he was failing to stay close enough and not mess up acceleration out of the corner. He simply was not as good at following RG close enough to make the pass which was pretty disappointing. 

Edited by EvanRainer, 13 October 2013 - 19:11.

[djparky]

what a dull 50 odd laps that was- thankfully Grosjean at leats stopped it being another mind numbing RBR procession...zzzzz it's India next which was dull last year- funny how RBR have pretty much won everything since they changed the tyres...

[prty]

I am equally surprised that I have to point this out:  we don't all have the same audio feed and so we did not all hear Pedro.  We are not psychic, so we have to take what you say as including all of the total facts.  You make it a waste of time by not giving full information with your posts.  If Pedro said this at the beginning of the race, then it doesn't matter at all because at that stage RBR was planning for Seb and Mark to both do a 2 stop strategy.  The 3 stop developed when Mark's tyres went off early.   And of course Pedro could not have taken tyres into consideration because he would not know which tyres would be used by the drivers and when.

 

Despite the above, with the fresh medium tyres and Sebastian only 5 seconds ahead, if Mark could have passed Grosjean as quickly as Sebastian, or there abouts, he could have challenged for first with 6 to 7 laps to go and 6 to 7 seconds between them.  That is why Rocky told Sebastian, 'Mark will be close at the end, so keep pushing'. 

 

PDLR did talk about it at the end of the race, too.

And he said that you can't fault RBR for splitting the strategies, as it would be almost impossible to finish 1-2 with the same strategy. BUT he questioned who got which strategy, as Webber, the driver ahead, got the one who would put him in 2nd position. Again, PDLR words

[Winter98]

At the beginning of the race, De la Rosa was explaining on the Spanish TV that a two-stop strategy was the optimal strategy in ths race, about 10 to 15 secs faster than a three-stop one.

 

Webber's strategy was not spot on; it was a sub-optimal one. And he was given it when he was leading the race. 

 

I have nothing about team orders, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

That may have had something to do with emerging from the pits into traffic of slower cars working on a two stopper.

 

The three stopper looked quicker today, Webber just failed to pass Grosjean.  If he had he would have been on Vettel's tail with much newer and softer tires.

Edited by Winter98, 13 October 2013 - 20:29.

[repete]

PDLR said the 2 stopper was faster....that only applies if he is allowed to run his race. Running a 2-stopper at grosean's pace is not as fast as running a 2-stopper at RBR optimal pace. When his 2-stopper was compromised, it no longer became the optimal strategy.

[Mr.Wayne]

what a dull 50 odd laps that was- thankfully Grosjean at leats stopped it being another mind numbing RBR procession...zzzzz it's India next which was dull last year- funny how RBR have pretty much won everything since they changed the tyres...

With the notable exception of Hungary, immediately after the tyre change.  After that race, everyone was writting how Hamilton was the real title threat, how Mercedes was the stronger car, how RBR would have to pull something really special to defend their lead, etc, etc... 

 

Back to the race, it was an interesting one.  A very well played strategic chess on which one of the pieces (Webber) failed to do its job and hence the final result. 

[apoka]

PDLR did talk about it at the end of the race, too.

And he said that you can't fault RBR for splitting the strategies, as it would be almost impossible to finish 1-2 with the same strategy. BUT he questioned who got which strategy, as Webber, the driver ahead, got the one who would put him in 2nd position. Again, PDLR words

 

Well, drivers aren't always right, especially when they have to analyse things live whereas we have enough time to look into things in detail with the benefit of hindsight. I still don't see any strategy in which Webber had a significantly better chance to win the race, but we have a separate thread for this and should continue there.

[F.M.]

Don't know if posted already, but vd Garde vs Bianchi at the first corner today:

 

[muramasa]

Don't know if posted already, but vd Garde vs Bianchi at the first corner today:

 

 

Prost & Senna 1990

[SamH123]

It looks likely VDG very nearly got hit by a big chunk of the debris?

Or is has the photo flattened the shot and that debris is actually quite a long way in front of VDG