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Place your bets: will Vettel catch Ascari's record?


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#1 sopa

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:34

F1 statisticians have not reached a consensus of whether Ascari won 9 or 7 races consecutively in 1952-53. If we discount Indy 500, he won 9 F1 races in a row. If we include Indy500, then 7. In the latter case Ascari shares his record of consecutive wins with Michael Schumacher (2004).

 

Vettel has got 5 in a row now. 4 races to go this year. He can reach 9 consecutive wins by the end of 2013 if everything goes perfectly, but getting 10 and beating Ascari would demand RBR getting immediately everything right with the next regs from 2014.

 

So what does your gut feeling tell? Red Bull is so good that it looks like only misfortune like reliability, accidents, whatever can stop Vettel from winning for the rest of the season. Will it happen?



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#2 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:36

Vettel will win all the remaining races. Heard it here first!



#3 rasul

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:37

No. Because one win will be gifted to Webber for sure.



#4 st99

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:47

No. Because one win will be gifted to Webber for sure.

Agree. Maybe not gifted, but Webber will get one. 



#5 Mackey

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:51

Why won´t he? His car is in another league and he is driving very well at the moment. His only rival is his teammate and his team makes sure he doesn´t finish ahead of him.



#6 Jackmancer

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:54

No - he's more likely to run into some bad luck, or stronger competition, than win another four races.



#7 Wanderer

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:55

Why won´t he? His car is in another league and he is driving very well at the moment. His only rival is his teammate and his team makes sure he doesn´t finish ahead of him.

 

I'm sure the team would love to have a Webber win now the WDC race is over. 



#8 sosidge

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:59

I'm sure the team would love to have a Webber win now the WDC race is over. 

 

The team might like this, I don't think Vettel will though, and I don't think he would ever follow a team order to gift Webber a win.



#9 mnmracer

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 13:12

The team might like this, I don't think Vettel will though, and I don't think he would ever follow a team order to gift Webber a win.

Don't see why he would. Last time Vettel gifted Webber a win it wasn't appreciated by Mark either.


Edited by mnmracer, 13 October 2013 - 13:12.


#10 Kelateboy

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 13:17

No. Because one win will be gifted to Webber for sure.

 

He could still get 8 on the trot with Brazil reserves for Webber for sentimental reasons - being the last F1 race for Webber.



#11 E.B.

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 13:52

If we discount Indy 500, he won 9 F1 races in a row. If we include Indy500, then 7.

 

As they weren't F1 races, you need to redefine them as WDC races. In which case, you have to include the Indy 500.



#12 mnmracer

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 13:54

As they weren't F1 races, you need to redefine them as WDC races. In which case, you have to include the Indy 500.

Most statisticians make it 9 with an asterix.



#13 E.B.

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 13:59

Most statisticians make it 9 with an asterix.

 

The gaul of it.



#14 SpartanChas

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 14:19

I think the biggest threat to it is Hamilton at Abu Dhabi. If Vettel wins there, it's on, surely.

#15 george1981

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 15:20

No. Because one win will be gifted to Webber for sure.

I doubt Vettel will ever gift Webber a win. I'm not sure the team would even ask him for it. Webber's relationship with Christian Horner seems frosty IMO. I can't see him asking Vettel to let Mark through. I'm not sure Mark would want to accept it either.



#16 Briz

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 17:12

I think the best opportunity to gift Webber a win was today at Suzuka in the last lap. It would have been completely deserved and classy after what happened during the race and also during Malaysia. In another race it might be disrespectful towards Mark I think.



#17 Andrew Hope

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 17:37

Every statistic has an asterix. It's just dumbasses who insist some of them need to be visible.



#18 Winter98

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 17:42

If there wasn't the possiblity of gifting Webber a win, I would bet if the odds were 3/2 or better.



#19 Kingshark

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 17:57

I think he will win in India, Abu Dhabi, and USA, but not Brazil.



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#20 mnmracer

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 18:18

I think he will win in India, Abu Dhabi, and USA, but not Brazil.

why not Brazil of all races?



#21 Kingshark

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 18:20

why not Brazil of all races?

 

Because Webber will beat him around there if it is dry, and if the conditions are changeable, Hulkenberg will beat him.



#22 frp

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 20:46

The gaul of it.

:)



#23 frp

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 20:54

As they weren't F1 races, you need to redefine them as WDC races. In which case, you have to include the Indy 500.

Of those motor races which were held for Formula Two cars, and were also qualifying rounds for the World Drivers' Championship, Ascari won nine consecutively.

Ain't it messy when you have to make history fit your statistics?  ;)

 

Andy



#24 frp

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 21:03

Every statistic has an asterix. It's just dumbasses who insist some of them need to be visible.

Asterix2.jpg

Visible enough?


Edited by frp, 13 October 2013 - 21:05.


#25 joshb

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 21:30

No, because the law of averages suggests surely the run will end soon!

And probably he'll have a bout of crap luck when comfortably leading



#26 Nick Planas

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 22:04

Maybe if Seb reads this he'll enter for the Indy500 next year with a view to putting any controversy to bed...



#27 E.B.

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:12

I guess you could say that Ascari won 9 consecutive WDC races that he competed in (he was a withdrawn entrant for the '53 500), and although you could reasonably imagine Vettel winning another couple of races consecutively, I would say that to win all 4 remaining races is going to be a bit of a stretch. We've had mini streaks of seeming invincibility before, but it only takes one little thing to go wrong.



#28 sennafan24

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 13:22

I think the biggest threat to it is Hamilton at Abu Dhabi. If Vettel wins there, it's on, surely.

I concur with this.

 

However, Lewis did beat Seb in a fairly equal machinery at Austin last year, so maybe Lewis can do something there as well. Plus there is a chance Vettel will get a DNF in the remaining 4 races.



#29 William Hunt

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 15:16

No. Because one win will be gifted to Webber for sure.

 

That won't happen. Red Bull already gifted a win that should have been Webber's to Vettel in Japan.



#30 krea

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 15:18

That won't happen. Red Bull already gifted a win that should have been Webber's to Vettel in Japan.

 

this year?



#31 Afterburner

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 15:41

Not going to happen. I think any more consecutive wins are dependent on fate at this point--with such a close field, getting so many wins in a row is susceptible to the impact of outside factors, in my opinion. There's too good a chance of a reliability issue or an untimely safety car or something similar.

However, to see it happen would be remarkable indeed.

#32 Bruce

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 21:22

Silly topic. 

 

Comparing Ascari to Vettel is about as meaningful as comparing a Model T to a Bugatti Veyron. The rules are different, the time is different, the reliability is different, the number of races are different...

 

It makes about as much sense as comparing Alonso's points total to Fangio's... which is to say no sense at all...



#33 Raven8

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 21:29

Who cares



#34 mnmracer

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 21:47

Who cares

considering you're replying to it, apparently you do



#35 sennafan24

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 23:12

Who cares

Come on man, at least answer the question then reply with your emotion towards it.



#36 sopa

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:18

So 6 in a row.

 

But now come the trickier ones.

Abu Dhabi, where Mercedes could be strong and there is a higher chance of a safety car mess.

Brazil is often not a straightforward race, especially if weather plays a role.

 

Webber's reliability is bad, it is even hard to "gift" him a win like that.


Edited by sopa, 27 October 2013 - 11:18.


#37 joshb

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:36

Abu Dhabi- Hamilton goes very well there.

America is more unknown based on 1 race as a form guide

Brazil is normally mad and Webber is very strong there.

 

I still think he'll drop points somewhere, but 8 in a row would mean he has won the most successive F1 events (Ascari won 7 in a row and missed the Indy 500 before taking the next 2)



#38 krobinson

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:46

Come on, this is obvious. Red Bull is over a second per lap quicker than any other car and that has been the case for most of the season. Lately it has gotten really bad and ugly for others. It is easy for him. 3 more easy fake victories for him is almost assured.



#39 sopa

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:57

Abu Dhabi- Hamilton goes very well there.

America is more unknown based on 1 race as a form guide

Brazil is normally mad and Webber is very strong there.

 

I still think he'll drop points somewhere, but 8 in a row would mean he has won the most successive F1 events (Ascari won 7 in a row and missed the Indy 500 before taking the next 2)

 

I think USA should be quite a straightforward race for Red Bull, like India or Korea. The flow of the track should enable quite a "normal" race. Yes, last year Hamilton/McLaren challenged, but I don't see it this year. Abu Dhabi and Brazil are a bit more unique, due to safety car and weather respectively.


Edited by sopa, 27 October 2013 - 12:57.


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#40 OO7

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 13:06

If Vettel does get nine in a row (and this is looking extremely possible right now), he will have achieved a new record for the most number of consecutive wins with in a single F1 season.



#41 Kelateboy

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 13:32

So 6 in a row.

 

But now come the trickier ones.

Abu Dhabi, where Mercedes could be strong and there is a higher chance of a safety car mess.

Brazil is often not a straightforward race, especially if weather plays a role.

 

Webber's reliability is bad, it is even hard to "gift" him a win like that.

 

From here onwards, the race will be between Vettel and his engine, gearbox or alternator. 



#42 sopa

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 14:57

After Abu Dhabi
 

from statsf1.com

1 ASCARI Alberto       Belgium 1952 - Argentina 1953  7
2 SCHUMACHER Michael   Europe 2004 - Hungary 2004     7
3 VETTEL Sebastian     Belgium 2013 - Abu Dhabi 2013  7

Edited by sopa, 03 November 2013 - 14:59.


#43 krobinson

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 14:59

 

After Abu Dhabi
 

from statsf1.com

1 ASCARI Alberto       Belgium 1952 - Argentina 1953 7
2 SCHUMACHER Michael Europe 2004 - Hungary 2004 7
3 VETTEL Sebastian Belgium 2013 - Abu Dhabi 2013 7

 

I guess the only difference is that even thought they had the best cars, Ascari and Schumacher were the best drivers on the grid in those years.



#44 josepatches

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 15:12

Vettel is the best driver of the grid rigth now too



#45 George Costanza

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 15:23

I think Mark will end his career with a win. So, I don't think Seb will tie the record of 9. But he will get 8, however... Assuming he wins in Texas.


Edited by George Costanza, 03 November 2013 - 15:23.


#46 George Costanza

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 15:24

I guess the only difference is that even thought they had the best cars, Ascari and Schumacher were the best drivers on the grid in those years.

No love for Fangio? He was considered the best.

 

About that stat, Michael could have won them all in 2002. People say 2004 was better, but that was because his car was better in 2004. Michael drove better in 2002 by a good margin.


Edited by George Costanza, 03 November 2013 - 15:25.


#47 sennafan24

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 15:24

I say he will break the record in 2 weeks, he was decent enough at Austin last year, and has the form and the car to follow it through with a win.



#48 skc

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 15:26

No.

 

He'll slip up in one of the two remaining races. That's what happens when the pressures completely off

 

Edit: Thought this was about surpassing the all time record.


Edited by skc, 03 November 2013 - 16:21.


#49 mnmracer

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:17

For anyone just tuning in:

Today Sebastian Vettel equaled the record for most consecutive wins in consecutive World Drivers Championship races (which includes Indy 500 and limits Ascari to 7).

He needs two more wins to equal the record for most consecutive wins in consecutive World Drivers Championship starts.


Edited by mnmracer, 03 November 2013 - 16:33.


#50 scheivlak

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:31

For anyone just tuning in:

Today Sebastian Vettel equaled the record for most consecutive wins in consecutive Formula One races (which includes Indy 500 and limits Ascari to 7).

He needs two more wins to equal the record for most consecutive wins in consecutive Formula One starts.

Not really, all Ascari's wins in 1952-1953 were in F2 races    ;)