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#251 Graham Gauld

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 13:03

Reference Frank B and Fines and the Jackie Stewart/Jim Clark story. I have told it many times as it is one of my favourites and so that nobody gets the story wrong again here it is.

Jim asked me to "write" his autobiography after he had won the 1963 world championship. Obviously as he was now world champion he was very busy and so we had an ad hoc arrangement about meeting up to get the story going. Meanwhile Jackie Stewart was just setting out and racing for Ecurie Ecosse with the Tojeiro-Buick coupe and the Cooper Monaco. Jackie and I had lunch and he asked whether he could come down to Jim's farm with me the next time we were going to discuss the book. Shortly after Jim phoned and suggested a certain weekend early in spring and I mentioned Jackies request and so he said to bring him down. I picked up Jackie in my Mini and we drove down to Chirnside. When we arrived who should be there but Paddy Hopkirk who had won the Monte Carlo Rally but obviously did not know Jackie Stewart. However after a hearty dinner left by Jim's housekeeper we adjourned to the lounge where Paddy threw himself down on an armchair and grabbed a copy of Playboy. Jim sat in the other arm chair and Jackie and I were on the couch. As usual Jim was hunched up nibbling away at his finger nails but Jackie was on fire. He suddenly said that a funny thing had happened to him at Snetterton. In practice he had jumped out of the TOjeiro and into the Monaco but forgot what car he was in and at the esses he hit the accelerator instead of the brake. Clark, without looking up, remarked " So you went off the road" and then Jackie with arm movements said that he had taken full opposite lock one way and then the other and caught the car. Still looking down at his finger nails Clark said " What were you braking for ?" At this Jackie asked what he meant. At this the hands went down, the head came up and looking straight at Jackie and said " Look if you were going at racing speeds and made a mistake like that you have to go off the road so what were you braking for ?"There was a pause and then Jackie said " You're right, what was I braking for"
Meanwhile Paddy was still studying the Playboy centrefold.
In case you think I am kidding herewith Paddy reading Playboy in Jim's farmhouse.


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#252 f1steveuk

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 13:22

Longtimefan, 7th??

#253 Bruno

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 15:31

François Cevert is the Great driver, but
world Champion 1974? ? ? . . .

#254 fines

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 15:36

That wasn't at all what I meant, but a lovely story!!! :D

#255 fines

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 15:46

Originally posted by Bruno
François Cevert is the Great driver, but
world Champion 1974? ? ? . . .

Glad YOU mention it. Everytime I read stuff like that, I think how on earth would he have beaten his own team mate that year, let alone Emmo, Niki and all the rest? But, I suppose you can always dream and imagine.

#256 AAA-Eagle

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:14

Today is the sad anniversary of the tragic day of 6th October, which took the life of François Cevert and Helmuth Koinigg. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Let's remember two great guys who are not longer with us!

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RIP François
RIP Helmuth

#257 philippe7

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:50

If I may permit myself to quote my post from 16 months ago....the Cevert chapter on the "Mémoire des Stands" blog is still going strong !


I thought I had posted the info already but it must have been in another thread about François....anybody genuinely interested in his career should check out the chapter devoted to him in the "Mémoire des Stands" Blog....of course all the written contributions are in french , but still there are some stunning early photos from the private archives of family and friends of François....and if you do read french, and bother to read through all the posts, you'll find some very moving contributions from some of his youth friends , and even his sister Jacqueline . The main page is here, and all of the chapter titles in blue underneath the Montlhery Matra 660 photo and introduction text are clickable links to various themes stories.....

http://memoiresdesta...-exclusifs.html



#258 Longtimefan

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:34

and again we hit October the sixth, this marks 36 years now since the tragic death of François Cevert. The poor man was killed on this day at Watkins Glen, he was a great character with immense talent and style. his loss was immense, who knows what he would have achieved if not for that horrible day, I know that Jo Ramierez and I honestly believe he would have been champion.

Rest in Peace François, we miss you so very much...

#259 f1steveuk

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:37

Today is the sad anniversary of the tragic day of 6th October, which took the life of François Cevert and Helmuth Koinigg. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Let's remember two great guys who are not longer with us!

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© David Phipps

RIP François
RIP Helmuth



I have that picture of Francois as my wallpaper on my laptop. When is it? Short tail bodywork, but no cooling chimneys for the inboard brakes, and no brake discs visible either?

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#260 philippe7

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:40

I think it's Silverstone in 73.....inboard front brakes had been forgotten since a long time by then...

#261 philippe7

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 09:54

...and what the hell, today is the day when I hope blatant self-indulgence will be forgiven....something I posted in "the fantasy thread" 4 years ago....

It was hot, very hot already in the Parc Almirante Brown as the cars were lining up on the grid for the first Grand Prix of the year . "This has to be my day", he thought as he slowly completed the warm up lap. " I almost made it here last year, if only those damn brakes had lasted the whole race, Emerson would never have passed me…." He glanced to his left. Ronnie, who had beaten him to pole for just one-tenth of a second, was revving the engine of his faithful Lotus 72. The first front row of the 1974 season looked like a continuation of the previous year ……same drivers, same cars up in front…."Emmo is right behind me, he must have been hoping he'd do better in the Mc Laren….I just wonder what Regga is doing in third place….I would never had thought this useless B3 could have become so good over the winter…." He glanced to the pitwall, where Jackie gave him the thumbs up . Uncle Ken was not there, he was probably down at the 6th row level, keeping an eye on Scheckter . "One and a half second", he thought with a broad grin, " I stuffed the cheeky kid by one and a half second….." Of course, the two men had officially made their peace, but François still couldn't help feeling bitter about the Mosport accident , and this broken ankle which had prevented him from taking part in the US Grand Prix , effectively denying him the chance to defend his third place in the Championship, and above all forcing him to miss the Maestro's 100th Grand Prix party…. He had done his best to hide the subtle jubilation he had felt deep inside as he had watched Jody desperately trying to come to grips with the ultra-twitchy 006 during the two days of practice . "Serves you right, sonny boy", he thought to himself, " that's no M23 any more you're driving….you had it a little too easy last year" . He slammed in the first gear as Juan-Manuel Fangio was raising the Argentinian flag…..

……."One lap, dammit only one lap left……". François was boiling inside, from the heat but also from anger against himself ….All had started well, he had let Peterson lead two laps , then neatly passed him under braking for the long curve at the far end of the circuit…and pulled away nicely from the field , until that fateful 31st lap….He had just caught Migault and was about to lap him, in a split second he saw the fluid leaking from the back of the BRM as he was slamming on the brakes and before he knew anything he was wildly spinning down the road and on the grass …..fortunately he hadn't hit anything, but by the time he restarted his stalled engine and rejoined the race, Reutemann, Hulme, Regazzoni and Hailwood had gone past…..he had managed to catch and pass the latter two, but Carlos was way ahead and Denny still had a 3 seconds advantage four laps from the end….."Well I'm on the podium, let's play it safe and settle for third" he had thought……..and then he had seen the white BT44 stranded on the trackside, and as he blasted past the pits his board was reading "P2 / Hulme -3s". "Well, it's now or never" François thought has he hit the revlimiter down the start-finish straight. Next time round, he was right on the tail of the McLaren. "One lap, dammit, only one lap left….."



#262 AAA-Eagle

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 10:00

I think it's Silverstone in 73.....inboard front brakes had been forgotten since a long time by then...

Right, 1973 British GP at Silverstone


#263 retriever

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 11:19

and again we hit October the sixth, this marks 36 years now since the tragic death of François Cevert. The poor man was killed on this day at Watkins Glen, he was a great character with immense talent and style. his loss was immense, who knows what he would have achieved if not for that horrible day, I know that Jo Ramierez and I honestly believe he would have been champion.

Rest in Peace François, we miss you so very much...


Undoubtedly the intentions of Longtimefan to remember Francois Cevert on the anniversary of his death are worthy but honestly does it need a new thread topic when there is already an active thread running this very moment.

This submission should be merged with that thread. I hope that Twin Widows, the well-known spelling error, takes note and uses his red pencil.


#264 f1steveuk

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 12:10

Undoubtedly the intentions of Longtimefan to remember Francois Cevert on the anniversary of his death are worthy but honestly does it need a new thread topic when there is already an active thread running this very moment.

This submission should be merged with that thread. I hope that Twin Widows, the well-known spelling error, takes note and uses his red pencil.


Yes I think your right, where is Tain Willows?

For my part, partly because I was a HUGE fan of Francois', and partly because I have had the chance to interview many people who knew or were there when Francois was in his prime, he would have won a championship, but maybe not in a Tyrrell, though I suspect he would have remained loyal to ken, he was that sort of man...........

#265 DOHC

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 18:03

I think it's Silverstone in 73.....inboard front brakes had been forgotten since a long time by then...


Four weeks is a long time to forget? Given that the inboard brake chimneys were used in the Swedish GP four weeks earlier, I'm not so sure. It remains ti check the French GP right in between...


#266 SEdward

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 07:45

The 1973 British GP was the last time I saw François in action. I remember being puzzled by his fairly dull performance, tooling around on his own, miles behind the Mclarens and Lotuses and nowhere near as fast as JYS, who really had the Tyrrell on song that day. I think he even finished way behind James Hunt.

Edward

#267 seccotine

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:26

If François Cevert would have been world champion in 74? Who cares? Not only that is pure sentimentality but it also contributes to make people forget was really a good driver. Repetition leads to suspicion - there is a form of denial there.
But Cevert remains underrated because he didn't win so many times, and he wasn't as quick on a qualification lap as, let's say, Ronnie Peterson. The amazing thing though, especially seen from today, when careers in F1 last and last and last, is that overall, when François Cevert died, his career was only seven years long. Three and a half years in F3, F2 and three and a half in F1, with no kart and no serious motorbike backgrounds. Part of the 46 Grand Prix he raced were a time of apprenticeship. As simple as that if you want to understand why he still sometimes lacked Fittipaldi's or Peterson's brilliance and consistency.
Considering his 1973 year, with Tyrrell, Matra and in F2 (a win in Pau with a car that wasn't the best one), it is clear that he had just become a top driver. Authority + confidence, the right blend.
So would he have been a world champion one day? That is still not really the point.

#268 f1steveuk

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 11:12

If François Cevert would have been world champion in 74? Who cares?


That is still not really the point.



Er, who said 1974? I didn't. Not sentimentality, an indicator to the talent that was lost, especially as I also said "maybe not for Tyrrell, although he would have stayed through loyalty, and as Tyrrell didn't win any more championships, I fear you missed my point, which in answer to your last sentance, "yes, that is the whole point".

#269 seccotine

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 12:34

No worries.
I wasn't answering your post specifically. It is only that each time FC is mentioned, so is the World Championship, 1974 preferably. Etc., etc, etc. At some point, it becomes boring and too repetitive, and we forget to remember who was Cevert and the fact that he had just finished learning. He wasn't only this charismatic young man but had also become competent.
But you and me agree on the loss.
As many French people of my age, I remember very well where I was when I heard the news on the radio. A persistent memory.



#270 f1steveuk

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 13:19

No worries.
I wasn't answering your post specifically. It is only that each time FC is mentioned, so is the World Championship, 1974 preferably. Etc., etc, etc. At some point, it becomes boring and too repetitive, and we forget to remember who was Cevert and the fact that he had just finished learning. He wasn't only this charismatic young man but had also become competent.
But you and me agree on the loss.
As many French people of my age, I remember very well where I was when I heard the news on the radio. A persistent memory.



Ah! No problem! As an Englishman (though living in France now) my only "heroes" not the right word, but.....) have both been French, Francois and Depailler, and even sentiment wouldn't let me think the latter was capable of being world champion, though I would have been as happy as Larry had it happened! I agree, it is a pointless thing to do, to a point, Roger Williamson should have become champion, everything was there, but he may never have got the right car at the right time, he may, like Montoya, decided it wasn't "racing" and done something else, in the end, as in Francois' case, fate decided. They "should" have been champion, but they weren't, and deserving as they may have been, there's more to it than just having the talent! I just thought both FC and PD were just what racing drivers should be like.

#271 seccotine

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 15:56

Yeah, Cevert, Depailler, but also Williamson, Pryce, Birrell... Those dead champions remain young forever. They never age, they never write silly memories or pronounce bitter words, they never get involved in politics. That is also why we cherish them.
But seen from today, and by comparison to today's drivers, who are so competent, predictable and dull, these men embody qualities that are being lost. We can definitely call them heroes.

#272 Phil Rainford

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 17:41

Yeah, Cevert, Depailler, but also Williamson, Pryce, Birrell... Those dead champions remain young forever. They never age, they never write silly memories or pronounce bitter words, they never get involved in politics. That is also why we cherish them.
But seen from today, and by comparison to today's drivers, who are so competent, predictable and dull, these men embody qualities that are being lost. We can definitely call them heroes.


Which raises an interesting point.............will young Grand Prix fans of the modern era grow old without any heroes??

PAR


#273 Hieronymus

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:03

Which raises an interesting point.............will young Grand Prix fans of the modern era grow old without any heroes??

PAR



The problem with modern drivers...they have the charisma of a robot. I'm sure that there are some real potential, personality wise, if they are allow to think and do as free men. This is the big difference between men like Cevert & Depailler and the class of 2009. They made F1 and F1 did not make them...

Edited by Hieronymus, 07 October 2009 - 19:05.


#274 seccotine

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:09

The problem with modern drivers...they have the charisma of a robot. I'm sure that there are some real potential, personality wise, if they are allow to think and do as free men. This is the big difference between men like Cevert & Depailler and the class of 2009. They made F1 and F1 did not make them...


We have the heroes we deserve.

#275 Hieronymus

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:18

We have the heroes we deserve.


...because we allowed pimps and corporate crooks to create these F1 TV heroes. Modern day "Grand Prix" racing is an insult to real heroes like Cevert.


#276 SEdward

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 19:52

Remember that this is the Nostalgia Forum and that in 30 years' time people will lovingly recall Hamilton and Raikkonen as white-knuckled, real racers who spoke their minds and left big, black marks on the tarmac.

Edward

#277 Gabrci

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 20:27

...because we allowed pimps and corporate crooks to create these F1 TV heroes. Modern day "Grand Prix" racing is an insult to real heroes like Cevert.


I think it can be looked from another aspect. Today's racers are much, much better in their profession than Cevert, Depailler and co. ever were - much better trained, much more professional, much closer to the limit, much more consistent. They will be looked 20 years on exactly as Cevert, Depailler or Peterson is looked at now, and rightly so. The Stewart will be called Schumacher and the Peterson will be called Alesi or Montoya, but I think it's the same thing.

#278 john t

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 23:52

I can't understand the arguments about Cevert's ability.... JYS was the best driver of his day - yes? The Tyrrell 006 was not one of the best cars (as stated by M23 and 72E drivers, Ken Tyrrell and Derek Gardener) - yes? Re. Silverstone 1973 comment; yes cevert did cruise around on his own to fifth place but that stubby wheelbased car looked horrible over the bumps.. I was there and still remember how JYS's car seemed smoother... All those second places?. look who finished ahead..
Lastly, and a good point: WDC 1974? That really isn't the point! Cevert was a wonderful driver, a proven winner and a team player. Would he have beaten Jody in a Tyrrell designed around the strengths of a 006?. I think so. Francois certainly would have made a great world champion.

#279 philippe7

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 02:13

I'm going to annoy Seccotine with another post about Cevert 1974 World Champ  ;) but this is what I wrote almost 6 years ago and as a famous fench quote goes "it's my opinion and I agree with it"

It is of course always touchy to state if's and if not's……but the way the history of the 1974 world championship eventually turned out , one can fairly assume that , yes, François Cevert would have been a very strong contender for the title.

Jody Scheckter, in his first full F1 year , finished 3rd in the championship, only 10 points adrift from Emerson Fittipaldi . But he was totally lost during the first three races , in which he and Patrick Depailler had to use the old 005/006 Tyrrells, which were notoriously very tricky to drive…..from the moment he got hold of the 007 model, a very good design, easier to drive and reliable , he scored two wins and 9 point finishes…..and either he DNF'ed , or finished inside the points….which says a lot about the virtues of the car.

Therefore, it is fair to assume that Cevert , following on the brilliant form he was in during the 73 season, would normally have scored some points in his usual 006 during the early season races , and that he would not have done worse than Jody Scheckter aboard the 007 …..which would have brought him very close to Emerson and Gianclaudio by the end of the year …


And yes, due to his natural talent but also to Ken Tyrrell and Jackie Stewart 's coaching, François Cevert had by the end of 73 blossomed into a very , very good driver….not only fast, but reliable , steady headed, consistent….it was then , as it is today, difficult to compare drivers in different cars , but in the Tyrrell he was on par with Jackie Stewart , and in the Matra Sport Prototypes, he was head and shoulders above his team mates , Beltoise, Pescarolo and Larrousse – none of those world champion material maybe , but still…..and he was not only quicker, but with a natural ease that strongly frustrated the 3 others who had to sweat a lot to set approaching times….



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#280 DOHC

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 06:03

In case you think I am kidding herewith Paddy reading Playboy in Jim's farmhouse.


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That's the November 1963 issue, featuring "The girls of Canada."


#281 seccotine

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 07:39

I think it can be looked from another aspect. Today's racers are much, much better in their profession than Cevert, Depailler and co. ever were - much better trained, much more professional, much closer to the limit, much more consistent. They will be looked 20 years on exactly as Cevert, Depailler or Peterson is looked at now, and rightly so. The Stewart will be called Schumacher and the Peterson will be called Alesi or Montoya, but I think it's the same thing.



No, it's not the same thing.
I do agree with you about the competence, the training, the consistency, etc. but we are talking about totally different men, different characters.
There is a human aspect when we consider the drivers of the golden era that isn't relevant anymore if we look at Formula 1 today. The main differences are the imperfection of the tools and the processes, and the presence of danger. Not that it is better but one can consider that material richer, more dramatic and impredictable.

Philippe7,
Mais non, tu ne m'ennuies pas. Your demonstration is convincing, but isn't that a little absurd? We can't scientifically prove anything, including FC's talent when he was still alive.
Cevert was one of his kind and we can't forget him.

#282 SEdward

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 11:26

Regarding the 1973 Sports Car season, I'm sure that members of this forum will remember post about that year's Monza 1,000 km, at which François was able to take the Matra through the Curva Grande without lifting, leaving the team's other drivers pretty well gobsmacked.

Now why is one man able to do that, while others, in the same car, aren't? But that's a different can of worms...

Edward

#283 MonzaDriver

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 14:40

Hi to all,
I think I've found a new way to put the question about our drivers and today drivers.

If you have the chance to live the same life of Francois Cevert or Kimi Raikkonen's one.
What you would like to prefer? Even if Raikkonen is world champion and Cevert not.

I have no doubts at all.
MonzaDriver.





#284 David M. Kane

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 15:39

Monza Driver:

That is a well posed question.

#285 Gabrci

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 19:35

Hi to all,
I think I've found a new way to put the question about our drivers and today drivers.

If you have the chance to live the same life of Francois Cevert or Kimi Raikkonen's one.
What you would like to prefer? Even if Raikkonen is world champion and Cevert not.

I have no doubts at all.
MonzaDriver.


Maybe because you weren't in the same hotel bar as I and Räikkönen happened to be last year and didn't see the girl(s) he was having fun with.

But anyway, I don't think it's fair to compare the most colourful personality of the 1970's with the least colourful of today. I don't think there is a bigger difference between the racing drivers of the two era than the world in general.

#286 seccotine

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 20:16

Maybe because you weren't in the same hotel bar as I and Räikkönen happened to be last year and didn't see the girl(s) he was having fun with.

But anyway, I don't think it's fair to compare the most colourful personality of the 1970's with the least colourful of today. I don't think there is a bigger difference between the racing drivers of the two era than the world in general.



You're right. There is a huge difference between these drivers and between the world we live in and the world as it was back then (remember 73, when Williamson died and no safety car, no firemen truck were ready. There was no connection between the track and the control tower. No telephones, no walkie talkies, of course no mobile phones...).
I would never go back to that time. But why am I so bored today, and why does my life seem so pasteurized?

(And yes : would you like to see a photo of François Cevert and Brigitte Bardot together? I've heard they too had some fun).

#287 Phil Rainford

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 22:31

Maybe because you weren't in the same hotel bar as I and Räikkönen happened to be last year and didn't see the girl(s) he was having fun with.

But anyway, I don't think it's fair to compare the most colourful personality of the 1970's with the least colourful of today. I don't think there is a bigger difference between the racing drivers of the two era than the world in general.



Would suggest Räikkönen would have loved the 1970s compared to the coperate era of the today :)


PAR


#288 LittleChris

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 23:39

Would suggest Räikkönen would have loved the 1970s compared to the coperate era of the today :)


PAR



Hasn't Kimi previously intimated that he'd have liked to have raced in the 70's just as Mike Thackwell felt he'd have been better suited to the 50's ?

#289 philippe7

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 07:03

Regarding the 1973 Sports Car season, I'm sure that members of this forum will remember post about that year's Monza 1,000 km, at which François was able to take the Matra through the Curva Grande without lifting, leaving the team's other drivers pretty well gobsmacked.
Now why is one man able to do that, while others, in the same car, aren't? But that's a different can of worms...
Edward


Well, that was the last part of the post of mine I quoted on the previous page, but I deleted it because I thought it wasn't strictly relevant to the subject . There it is :

in the Matra Sport Prototypes, he was head and shoulders above his team mates , Beltoise, Pescarolo and Larrousse – none of those world champion material maybe , but still…..and he was not only quicker, but with a natural ease that strongly frustrated the 3 others who had to sweat a lot to set approaching times….
There is an anecdote I read from a reliable source (maybe Jean-Claude Hallé's book, I'm not sure….) . During practice for the 1973 Monza 1000km's, Cevert was turning some laps in the Matra M670 3 liter V12 , and the three other drivers mentioned above were discussing in the pits . Francois blasted by the pit straight ( no chicanes in Monza for the sports car race then , remember…) and - Henri Pescarolo tells the story- " we heard the scream of his engine slowly decreasing, and , unusually, fading out to silence withought the faintest change in the note , the slightest drop of the revs……we all stared at each other in disbelief and fear……because we instantly undestood that this time, François had taken the Curva Grande flat out , without lifting his foot one second……and that now we would be expected to do the same…."



But, of course, there might be a share of urban legend to this . Today, on the french Autodiva forum, there is a member who writes that he personnally heard a Mr Jean-Robert Schumacher, former head of the track marshalls section of the french federation, tell the story that he once witnessed Cevert arriving very late into an afternoon practice session at Le Mans, and when the team manager expressed that he wasn't pleased, he just said oh don't worry, I'll set a time for you, took his jacket off, donned his helmet and hopped in the Matra in his street clothes (!) and drove off and indeed set the requested times . Now, if that doesn't seem incredible...and yet, the quoted source sounds respectable .


#290 Stephen W

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 08:56

If you have the chance to live the same life of Francois Cevert or Kimi Raikkonen's one.
What you would like to prefer? Even if Raikkonen is world champion and Cevert not.

I have no doubts at all.
MonzaDriver.


Personally I would choose the life of Kimi Raikkonen. My reasons are simple ...

1) Cars are safer so I would be more likely to survive.
2) The pay is massively greater now-a-days.
3) After 5 years in F1 I could 'retire' then buy any number of historic racing cars and then start enjoying myself.

I wouldn't judge how much Kimi enjoys life by his monosyllabic responses, he is just cooooool!

:wave:

#291 MonzaDriver

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 10:29

Raikkonen is cool ???
Have you look his face's expression during the post GP press conference?
Are you sure Stephen W?

Have you ever noticed that any question seems to annoying him even if he's just won the GP?
Personally I always have great pleasure reading interviews of the driver of the past let's say Stewart or Cevert or Moss, I have the idea that they always tells you something new about motor racing, every single time.
Raikkonen has the copyright of the phrase " we collect very good data today..........."

Another things I wondered often, today they have PR of the team, PR from their manager, maybe they attending some courses about to deal with today's mass media................
to me they all seems nice like a stomachache.

Even is somewhat light as a topic: Gabrci pointed out today's girls,
well everytime I see a photo of a young Brigitte Bordot, I cannot avoid to think: how incredibly beautiful was this BB. Today starlets they really look the same each others. Beautiful surely but all the same.

I did not know that probably Cevert and Brigitte Bardot have had a love affair..............
in this case I choose Cevert's life twice.
And I was very young in the '70s I am not nostalgic it was not my era.
Ciao to all.
MonzaDriver

#292 Stephen W

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 10:39

Raikkonen is cool ???
Have you look his face's expression during the post GP press conference?
Are you sure Stephen W?
Have you ever noticed that any question seems to annoying him even if he's just won the GP?

Ciao to all.
MonzaDriver


That's exactly what I like about the man - he hates the hype and the stupid questions. I suspect that in a proper 1 to 1 interview the results would be far more interesting - don't judge the man because of the way he answers badly phrased closed questions!

:wave:

#293 sonar

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 10:50

I think, maybe, the nearness of death made racing drivers the very special people they were at the time.
It made them enjoy life more, perhaps. Because they knew from experience that it could be all over in a flash.

If they were to make F1 remote controlled today, would anybody notice the difference......?


#294 Stephen W

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 11:23

If they were to make F1 remote controlled today, would anybody notice the difference......?


The constructors would be pleased as there would be more space for adverts on their vehicles.

:wave:

#295 seccotine

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 11:39

I think, maybe, the nearness of death made racing drivers the very special people they were at the time.
It made them enjoy life more, perhaps. Because they knew from experience that it could be all over in a flash.

If they were to make F1 remote controlled today, would anybody notice the difference......?


Well, I guess that only people over 40 can understand the difference.
I don't dislike Raikkonen. He looks more interesting than most of the other guys, but he is a kid of his era.
Even though being such a hansome and confident man made him exceptional, Cevert might not have been such an incredible character as well, as many other great drivers of the time (seriously, who wants to party with Lauda, or have a conversation with him about philosophy? Or with Fittipaldi, or even the great JYS, whose comments comparing driving a race car and making love to a woman still make me laugh my head off? Just to name some who are still alive and who would appear as romantic heroes today if they had died).
Having said that, François Cevert too was a man of his era and that makes the whole difference. It is not the same to race when everything around you isn't totally secured. Remember how basic were the cars (tins with wheels), the organisation of the teams, etc., in the 60s, 70s. And that in those days, a guy could fly to the US to do some Can-Am in an second-hand McLaren, or jump into a F2, or a Matra 670... Just unbelievable.
Danger was everywhere in those days and even in 2009, I fear the worst when I see a car crashing during a race. Remember how frozen we felt after a death... I have very precise memories of Williamson's death, of Cevert's, Koinigg's, Pryce's, Peterson's, Villeneuve's, and really, I don't want to go back there.
But it is clear to me that life as it was, danger being part of it, is the right perspective here. And even though sir Jackie can sometimes be a little silly, he led a magnificent life and he is for me the kind of hero Michael Schumacher will never be.

And if I had to choose a life, I wouldn't choose Cevert's. He died at 29 and that is terrible.


#296 Longtimefan

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 14:37

Comparing Kimi to François is like chalk and cheese, one is a dull, boring, monotone person who only needs to utter one sentence to send me to sleep and the other is...was a person of huge personality and charisma who oozed style and charm.

simple as that.

as for choosing, my heart would say François

#297 sonar

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 15:36

Kimi is 29.
I'm sure Francois didn't know hé was going to die at 29.......
He loved everything about his life and then he died.
Too soon, I agree, but Francois never knew that.
It's sad for us because we have to do without him now.

#298 Phil Rainford

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 15:51

Well, that was the last part of the post of mine I quoted on the previous page, but I deleted it because I thought it wasn't strictly relevant to the subject . There it is :




But, of course, there might be a share of urban legend to this . Today, on the french Autodiva forum, there is a member who writes that he personnally heard a Mr Jean-Robert Schumacher, former head of the track marshalls section of the french federation, tell the story that he once witnessed Cevert arriving very late into an afternoon practice session at Le Mans


One can only guess why Cevert was late ;)

PAR


#299 Dave Ware

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 02:24

Glad YOU mention it. Everytime I read stuff like that, I think how on earth would he have beaten his own team mate that year, let alone Emmo, Niki and all the rest? But, I suppose you can always dream and imagine.


Perhaps this question would make more sense if it were reversed.

To quickly recap the 1974 season, it was a tightly contested championship battle between Fittipaldi, Lauda, Scheckter, and Regazzoni. No one dominated the results. All four drivers still had a shot at the championship going into penultimate round, the Canadian Grand Prix. Going into the final round at Watkins Glen, it was narrowed down to Fittipaldi, Scheckter, and Regazzoni. It was close, all the way to the end.

Now let’s look at Cevert’s competition for that year:

Fittipaldi – the most experienced and successful of the four, and probably the quickest. Probably at his peak, and going into the season, probably the man most likely to succeed.

Lauda – finally with a good car (nay, a great car,) he scored eight poles and should have won more races. Yet he suffered all sorts of oddball mechanical failures. Also, he threw away the lead and his championship hopes at Canada when he crashed.

Scheckter – not the same Jody Scheckter we saw flinging F5000 cars and CanAm Porsches sideways through turns, but also not the same Jody who took out almost half the field at Silverstone. His first full season in F1 and he almost won the championship. About the only other thing you could ask for was more race wins. I think the lad was still learning to drive a Formula One car.

Regazzoni – I don’t think anyone would rate Regazzoni as being as quick as his three rivals. But championships are not about the quickest driver or the most talented driver, but the driver who puts together the best overall season. In 1974, by virtue of consistent finishes, a win in Germany, and three championship rivals taking points from each other, he came darn close.

Let’s also remember that Fittipaldi, Lauda, and Scheckter had changed teams for the season. Each had to get accustomed to new cars, new engineers, mechanics, a new team culture, etc. Not a big deal for a world-championship caliber driver. But enough of a deal to make everything just a little harder, a little more time-consuming, and in a closely-fought championship battle, it could make a difference.

Now let’s throw Cevert into this mix. He’s in his fifth year with Tyrrell. The team is like his family. He’s comfortable, he feels valued, he knows how to communicate with everyone and get the car working well. And now that his education under JYS has ended, he must be chomping at the bit to win races. On the verge of becoming team leader, I think he would have reached his peak in 1974.

And he’s fast. Several times in ’73 he was second only to Stewart, and at the ‘ring was, by his own admission, actually faster and could have beaten him. Later, Ken Tyrrell would say that there was no doubt in his mind that Cevert would have been the first French World Champion.

Now let’s think about Cevert’s car. He would not have had the same car Scheckter and Depailler used. Gardner and Tyrrell “dumbed down” the 007 somewhat to compensate for drivers who were new to F1. (Tyrrell later admitted it was a mistake.) It’s hard to imagine they would have done this if Cevert had been there in 1974. So I believe Cevert would have had a better car than the 007 that actually existed.

At the very least, Cevert would have been in the hunt for the 1974 championship, along with the aforementioned drivers. Had his championship hopes made it to Watkins Glen, as Regazzoni’s did, it’s entirely possible that he would have out-raced Fittipaldi and won the title in grand style. However I believe he would have done better, would have won four or five races, and taken the title convincingly.

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#300 Andrew Hope

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 02:42

Thank you for that post. Far too often, the sympathy we feel for drivers killed early in their careers leads us to exaggerate their abilities and to thrown around the phrase 'World Champion' far too loosely.

Being born 18 years after Cevert was killed I cannot possibly fully appreciate either him or racing of that era, but from what I have read (including reading through this thread two and possibly three times long before I ever joined this forum) leads me to no other conclusion than that Cevert was above most of that era, and almost certainly something of an even more rare talent than those that met the same fate during those decades. What that matters now is irrelevant, they were human beings first and drivers second, but I personally don't even care that much, or put as great a stock in driver's titles as other people do.

I am as much a Gilles Villeneuve and Ronnie Peterson fan as I ever could be, and the depths of my knowledge and feelings toward such drivers can only go as far as forums like this and Youtube can take me, but I consider myself a fan of the man we lost 36 years and now a few days ago.

Edited by andrew., 16 October 2009 - 02:42.