95 replies to this topic

[kenkip]

Good morning/afternoon/evening F1 fans?So I know we all hate Sebastian Vettel's radio message at the end of the races,but in Suzuka he said something that made me think he may have a point.'You are the best team in the world'.
Now,think about it for a moment.Is there a team operating at the level Red bull is?I tend to think I am an ardent follower of almost all popular sports and for me no team is even close to them in terms of operative excellence,organization,work ethic and long story short,there is almost an invincibility around them that is not there in any other sport in the world.If their is any criticism they have it is their PR department,it doesn't look like they are the most team but I guess this is a knock on effect of their dominance.
So what do you guys think?Are they number one in the world and if not,I would love to hear of any team that is coming close to their level.Looking forward to hearing from you.

[Bloggsworth]

No, yes, maybe, maybe not. Are oranges the only fruit? Do they compare to apples? Is a steak better for you than a tetanus vaccination, are Manchester United a better football team than the Dallas Cowboys are an American Football team? How exactly do you propose to quantify your comparisons?

Edited by Bloggsworth, 16 October 2013 - 13:01.

[Vepe1995]

I'd say Audi is better...

[Kelateboy]

Nothing beats SF 49ers....

[sennafan24]

Nothing beats SF 49ers....

Ravens? 

 

I am a Tampa Bay Bucs fan, so you can have a good laugh at me if you like.

[scheivlak]

I think this thread http://forums.autosp...ho-is-the-best/ offers an answer.

[kenkip]

No, yes, maybe, maybe not. Are oranges the only fruit? Do they compare to apples? Is a steak better for you than a tetanus vaccination, are Manchester United a better football team than the Dallas Cowboys are an American Football team? How exactly do you propose to quantify your comparisons?

Well,lets put it thisway,Arsenal is leading the EPL right now and they are on a fantastic run at the moment,(something like 11 away wins on a trot) but that doesnt say the whole story does it?Can you say honestly if a weekend is coming up  Arsenal is playing Manchester City and RBR is racing in Monza (I have put difficult assignments for both-City is a top four team,Monza is considered RBR weakest track),which team would you put,gun to your head,to come out on top,if all things remain constant?

P.S I hope my analogy makes sense??

[Rinehart]

Do the best "teams" have their two main competitors and elements within the group at complete odds with each other...

 

They might be ultra successful at the moment and that deserves respect, but being a "team" is not something they're apparently very good at...

[kenkip]

No, yes, maybe, maybe not. Are oranges the only fruit? Do they compare to apples? Is a steak better for you than a tetanus vaccination, are Manchester United a better football team than the Dallas Cowboys are an American Football team? How exactly do you propose to quantify your comparisons?

Well,lets put it thisway,Arsenal is leading the EPL right now and they are on a fantastic run at the moment,(something like 11 away wins on a trot) but that doesnt say the whole story does it?Can you say honestly if a weekend is coming up  Arsenal is playing Manchester City and RBR is racing in Monza (I have put difficult assignments for both-City is a top four team,Monza is considered RBR weakest track),which team would you put,gun to your head,to come out on top,if all things remain constant?

P.S I hope my analogy makes sense??

 

Ravens? 

 

I am a Tampa Bay Bucs fan, so you can have a good laugh at me if you like.

Dont mind if I do!

[kenkip]

Do the best "teams" have their two main competitors and elements within the group at complete odds with each other...

 

They might be ultra successful at the moment and that deserves respect, but being a "team" is not something they're apparently very good at...

I dont understand,are you talking about the Webber/Vettel rivalry?Its been their in sports for time immemorial.Andy Cole and Teddy Sheringham were the striking partnership of Manchester United in 1999 and scored loads of goals and won the treble that year,but they never spoke a word off pitch  and hated the sight of each other.Does it make United less of a team?

[Nonesuch]

Are they number one in the world and if not, I would love to hear of any team that is coming close to their level.

 

In recent motorsports history, it's hard to overlook these guys:

 

Edited by Nonesuch, 16 October 2013 - 13:27.

[Bloggsworth]

Well,lets put it thisway,Arsenal is leading the EPL right now and they are on a fantastic run at the moment,(something like 11 away wins on a trot) but that doesnt say the whole story does it?Can you say honestly if a weekend is coming up  Arsenal is playing Manchester City and RBR is racing in Monza (I have put difficult assignments for both-City is a top four team,Monza is considered RBR weakest track),which team would you put,gun to your head,to come out on top,if all things remain constant?

P.S I hope my analogy makes sense??

 

I think this is an answer to the originator's post, not to my reply to his...

[OneAndOnly]

Nope, Bayern Munich is. Champions League, Bundesliga, German Cup, all that with cheap tickets for fans, great players, attacking style football and still end up year with profit (unlike any other big club in Europe except Arsenal).

[zippythecat]

Audi's better, currently, in motorsport, but RBR is operating at close to the same level. 

 

In the entire field of sport? Tough call, that. You can make a case for leading teams in several sports. 

[RosannaG]

For me, Audi & Red Bull have been outstanding for the past four years. I can't think of any other team achieving so much in that time.

[zippythecat]

I give Audi the nod because it's been at the top for a longer period of time. But it's to RBR's credit that they now have a credible claim.

 

Having thought about it a little, from the sports I'm most familiar with I'd nominate as the best-run team U.S. baseball's St. Louis Cardinals. They have 11 titles, second-most in the sport, and are very much in the mix to get a 12th this year. They helped pioneer the sport, were among its early powers, and stepped up to become a force again in the 1960s. Save for a down period in the 1970s they've always been there or thereabouts ever since. Thing about them is the efficiency with which management goes about its business. There's never any drama and they roll with the punches. They're contending again this year despite having lost their best player to free agency at the end of 2011. And from a business standpoint they've built the brand despite being based outside the country's major media markets.

 

The New York Yankees have more titles than the Cardinals but are comparable to Ferrari in the way management unsteadiness tends to squander their natural advantages.

Edited by zippythecat, 16 October 2013 - 14:18.

[Rinehart]

I dont understand,are you talking about the Webber/Vettel rivalry?Its been their in sports for time immemorial.Andy Cole and Teddy Sheringham were the striking partnership of Manchester United in 1999 and scored loads of goals and won the treble that year,but they never spoke a word off pitch  and hated the sight of each other.Does it make United less of a team?

 

Yes.

[Andrew Hope]

Sports are stupid.

[Raven8]

If you include non Motorsports teams, it has to be  Bayern München ATM

[Winter98]

Nothing beats SF 49ers....

Except the Seattle Seahawks. 

[V3TT3L]

I think NASCAR's Hendricks should be considered too.

[JHSingo]

No.

 

Not even one of the best in all of motorsport.

 

One of the richest, perhaps, but not one of the best.

 

Nope, Bayern Munich is. Champions League, Bundesliga, German Cup, all that with cheap tickets for fans, great players, attacking style football and still end up year with profit (unlike any other big club in Europe except Arsenal).

 

    Sorry, have I confused this with a footbore forum?

Edited by JHSingo, 16 October 2013 - 15:19.

[undersquare]

Their ultimate objective is to sell their brand but they've made themselves unpopular, which is a fail really.

[RosannaG]

No.

 

Not even one of the best in all of motorsport.

 

One of the richest, perhaps, but not one of the best.

 

 

 

 

    Sorry, have I confused this with a footbore forum?

 

The question is about the best sport team... Even though, I posted two motorsport teams, I understood the question as the best team in any sport. 

[Moosed]

No.

 

Not even one of the best in all of motorsport.

 

One of the richest, perhaps, but not one of the best.

 

 

 

 

    Sorry, have I confused this with a footbore forum?

lol at a motorsport fan calling football boring, motorsport fans are notorious for being the sports worlds biggest dullards.

[Rinehart]

lol at a motorsport fan calling football boring, motorsport fans are notorious for being the sports worlds biggest dullards.

 

What if you like football and motorsport? 

[WhiteSGPlayer]

Not at the moment. They're getting there though.

 

Audi Sport Team Joest, Penske and Chip Ganassi Racing are three teams that come to mind when thinking of "best"

[ensign14]

Harlem Globetrotters.  When was the last time they lost?

[MattPete]

Harlem Globetrotters.  When was the last time they lost?

 

2006.

 

They have a winning percentage of > 98.5% (345 losses in their lifetime of 22,000+ games).

[onemoresolo]

I wouldn't count Bayern as being on the same level as Red Bull personally. Bayern had a stunning season last year, but Red Bull have been a class apart for four straight seasons now. Bayern have not had that longevity (but could).

 

Apples with oranges, I know, but such is the nature of this thread.

 

I would also argue that F1 is more of a team effort than football. Football has about 50 personnel involved, from the players to coaches etc, that have a direct impact on performance. F1 is in the 100's.

 

Interesting debate though!

[zippythecat]

Why Bayern as the football nominee and not Real Madrid? Serious question from a US person possessing only bare familiarity with Euro football.

 

If we're talking about "best," the ability to sustain excellence even through sport's inevitable ups and downs has to be considered.

[Raven8]

I wouldn't count Bayern as being on the same level as Red Bull personally. Bayern had a stunning season last year, but Red Bull have been a class apart for four straight seasons now. Bayern have not had that longevity (but could).

 

Apples with oranges, I know, but such is the nature of this thread.

 

I would also argue that F1 is more of a team effort than football. Football has about 50 personnel involved, from the players to coaches etc, that have a direct impact on performance. F1 is in the 100's.

 

Interesting debate though!

No longevity?  25 x national championships

                         16 x DFB Pokal

                          5 x CL

                          2 X club WC

IMO it's another sport , but you can't argue about longevity here .

 

 

RBR is good recently, not the best sports club in the world. I don't know if any f1 team is among the best sports clubs in the world

Edited by Raven8, 16 October 2013 - 17:04.

[RosannaG]

No longevity?  25 x national championships

                         16 x DFB Pokal

                          5 x CL

                          2 X club WC

IMO it's another sport , but you can't argue about longevity here .

 

 

RBR is good recently, not the best sports club in the world. I don't know if any f1 team is among the best sports clubs in the world

 

I hope there is no R. Madrid fan around here...    Because if we talk in terms of longevity... Bayern achievements can't beat R. Madrid's... And you can't imagine how much I hurt to say so being a Barça fan... 

 

 

And about motorsport, I think that perhaps Ferrari could be considered as one of the best sports team in the world (I write it without looking at their stats)

[Raven8]

I hope there is no R. Madrid fan around here...    Because if we talk in terms of longevity... Bayern achievements can't beat R. Madrid's... And you can't imagine how much I hurt to say so being a Barça fan... 

 

 

And about motorsport, I think that perhaps Ferrari could be considered as one of the best sports team in the world (I write it without looking at their stats)

Ferrari is nr 15 on the Forbes list amongst the top 15  most valuable sports teams, the only F1 team there

http://www.sportal.d...errari,14295,15

BUt this has more to do with ($$$)

Who is the best is more subjective IMO

[zippythecat]

I hope there is no R. Madrid fan around here...    Because if we talk in terms of longevity... Bayern achievements can't beat R. Madrid's... And you can't imagine how much I hurt to say so being a Barça fan... 

 

 

And about motorsport, I think that perhaps Ferrari could be considered as one of the best sports team in the world (I write it without looking at their stats)

 

I'd argue against Ferrari being one of the best, strongly. Their management is famously fickle and makes often-foolish personnel decisions, which is not the hallmark of a best-of-the-best team in any sport. They have many advantages but don't capitalize on them as they should. Same can be said of McLaren. RBR by contrast since 2008 has performed in an optimum manner.

[RosannaG]

Ferrari is nr 15 on the Forbes list amongst the top 15  most valuable sports teams, the only F1 team there

http://www.sportal.d...errari,14295,15

BUt this has more to do with ($$$)

Who is the best is more subjective IMO

 

I agree. Thanks for the information! 

[RosannaG]

I'd argue against Ferrari being one of the best, strongly. Their management is famously fickle and makes often-foolish personnel decisions, which is not the hallmark of a best-of-the-best team in any sport. They have many advantages but don't capitalize on them as they should. Same can be said of McLaren. RBR by contrast since 2008 has performed in an optimum manner.

 

There we go... It all depends if you take into account longevity (history), against that RBR has nothing to do but right now,I consider RBR one of the best teams in the world. They can only win 2 championships per season and for the last 4 years, they have a 100% rate of success They could not have done any better... 

[bourbon]

Sustainability, New England Patriots over SF - (both my teams, so I wouldn't argue the point, but SF has not sustained, more come and go) Bayern, Audi.

 

Red Bull has been on a 4.5 year run of operating at that same high level, but they need 5 more years to match. 

[JHSingo]

lol at a motorsport fan calling football boring, motorsport fans are notorious for being the sports worlds biggest dullards.

 

What you doing here then?

 

At least motorsport fans aren't prone to racially abusing drivers, or riot when their favourite team loses, or whatever. But I guess that is a discussion to be had elsewhere.

Edited by JHSingo, 16 October 2013 - 17:58.

[zippythecat]

Sustainability, New England Patriots over SF - (both my teams, so I wouldn't argue the point, but SF has not sustained, more come and go) Bayern, Audi.

 

Red Bull has been on a 4.5 year run of operating at that same high level, but they need 5 more years to match. 

 

SF had a good long run as the NFL's gold standard, so it's a case study in how fortunes can change. New England too; they were only rarely contenders until Belichick got there. Arguably Green Bay has done better than either in sustaining success in recent decades, overcoming major management and player transitions.

 

The sustainability argument is why I rate Audi higher than RBR in motorsport. But what they have in common at present is that the competition can't expect them to make serious mistakes. Both will take some beating.

 

Against their examples, Ferrari's 2000-04 run looks like an aberration. 

[alpinesmuggler]

Ravens? 

 

I am a Tampa Bay Bucs fan, so you can have a good laugh at me if you like.

Ouch. Bucs and Lewis? So much talent and yet so little to show for it? As a Jets/Lewis fan, I feel your pain.

 

But hey, next year or the year after next, or whenever the stars align, we'll be the ones laughing, right?

[Bloggsworth]

lol at a motorsport fan calling football boring, motorsport fans are notorious for being the sports worlds biggest dullards.

 

Bilgiferous drivel, not to say poppycock.

[alpinesmuggler]

Their ultimate objective is to sell their brand but they've made themselves unpopular, which is a fail really.

I agree with you in that I'm sure Red Bull coud have found a better 300M USD marketing investment than F1. That said, I still like their sugary drink, particularly with vodka, and I'm not a Seb/RB fan in the least.

 

#weirdmarketing

[Jackmancer]

Not really a team, but the most dominant figure I've come across is Esther Vergeer.

 

148 titles in singles, including 21 Grand Slams, 668 weeks ranked as world number one, and ITF World Champion 13 years in a row. Ten years without a defeat. That's 470 matches against 73 differnent opponents and not losing a single game.

 

http://en.wikipedia..../Esther_Vergeer

[alpinesmuggler]

I take it back. This is the best thread ever. Seriously, mods, don't lock it down. We have ten days until the next GP, the championship is over, the silly season isn't that much fun, so this is the best it gets.

[alpinesmuggler]

Sustainability, New England Patriots over SF - (both my teams, so I wouldn't argue the point, but SF has not sustained, more come and go) Bayern, Audi.

 

Red Bull has been on a 4.5 year run of operating at that same high level, but they need 5 more years to match. 

Dude, a Pats, Niners, RB and Seb fan? For how long? Have you ever been a fan of something/somebody who isn't on top?

 

Yabadabadoo. The weather is so fair out there.

[sennafan24]

Ouch. Bucs and Lewis? So much talent and yet so little to show for it? As a Jets/Lewis fan, I feel your pain.

 

But hey, next year or the year after next, or whenever the stars align, we'll be the ones laughing, right?

I bloody hope so! If 2014 goes to **** for Lewis I may have a nervous breakdown!

 

Buy hey we are fans of Senna, who is the ultimate winner in life. So it pans out for us in the end 

[handel]

What you doing here then?

 

At least motorsport fans aren't prone to racially abusing drivers, or riot when their favourite team loses, or whatever. But I guess that is a discussion to be had elsewhere.

 

 

Well in fairness the stick Hamilton has/does get in Spain is pretty much this.

[fabr68]

I think Vettel meant he thinks Red Bull is the best team in the world among Formula 1 teams (Ferrari, etc)

I bet millions of people around the world dont even know what "Infinity Red Bull Racing" means. However they do know what country won the last soccer world cup championship. And also know what a Ferrari is.

[NexusIcon]

The coveted Laureus World Sports Team of the Year award has twice been won by F1 teams. Renault in 2006 and Brawn in 2010. Despite cruising towards their 4th consecutive WCC RBR have not won this year or any other, despite 3 nominations.

http://en.wikipedia....eam_of_the_Year

So I guess, according to Laureus at least, the answer is, "No".

Edited by NexusIcon, 16 October 2013 - 18:45.