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Do we miss out on what would be a great era of F1


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#1 Kucki

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 23:36

I'm not talking about the dominance of Red Bull Racing or Sebastian Vettel. The history of Formula 1 was full of dominant performances. What kind of bothers me is the lack of emotion and passion for Formula 1. The thing that had you on the edge of the seat, like a build up to a battle, the art of overtaking has become a random apperance. There is no over-taking, theres overbuttoning in a way. Championship points are like rain falling on everybody, instead of a hard fought reason for celebration. Its just less emotion all around. Theres less drifts, less tire smoke, less of the spectacular engine blow ups, less top speed, less great sound, less of a full of emotion car like a powerful animal. But much more saving tires, more strategy type driving, smaller car. Remember when there used to be almost no penalties. Drivers duke it out nobody interfers in the race, just the natural way the race develops. Has F1 lost alot of character which made it great? The "awesomeness" of it. Awesome things in sport are spectacular things. F1 appears to be less spectacular compared to the past on alot of 'details' and major changes like the lousy push to pass button integration of DRS, which I feel is the major breaker of F1 together with tires that do not allow to see spectacular driving as well as it could.

 

Imagine putting the current roster of Formula 1 drivers, into races with cars of 2007, 2003, 2001, 1997 or 1991. Even 2010, a more recent example would be better. Is this just the way things are heading and the end vision is a F-Zero type of video game apperance of F1. Where are the super fat tires, the sparks, the blow ups, the beautiful action and rawness.



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#2 Morbus

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 23:58

Sigh.

 

If the cars would somehow be able to take advantage of the slipstream in the straights and gain the same advantage as they do now, with the DRS, would people complain that overtaking was too easy?

 

Because that's pretty much what DRS is: giving the advantage that exists in other categories of racing. Some others, at least.

 

Bulky underpowered sports car racing has HUGE advantages in the slipstream in the straights. And the result is that racing is much better and much more exciting in those categories. In my opinion, a driver that can consistently and cleanly overtake in a sports car can overtake anywhere, with any car. Then again, I only race on simulators, but it's a close enough experience, since the gaming engines these days are pretty much what you get on an F1 simulator anyway, for example.

 

That said, it's still disappointing that some passes are so easy, but there's no way around that, I don't think.



#3 Kucki

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 00:48

When I was writing the opening post I was considering my words to describe how I feel as good as I could. If you say its complaining about it beeing too "easy", implies I do not want overtaking to be easy. But its not about it beeing easy or not, its about how it happens. Its artificial, random and boring. If you have seen former generations of F1 cars, dont these current cars, tracks, and rules bore the hell out of you. Most likely people beeing very enthusiastic about current F1 would visit a board like this the most so I do not expect alot of people hearing me, but some might still hang around that remember the spectacle that it was.


Edited by Kucki, 17 October 2013 - 00:50.


#4 Velocifer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 00:50

This is clearly a great era, in my opinion the best. Before you had cars breaking down all the time, and the ones that ran were so spaced out there was no racing anywhere. And of the little fighting there was, it usually ended up with cars trailing for half a race, a crash or the dirtiest move winning the duel. Not fun at all. Lot's of bad tracks didn't help either.

 

Nowadays the drivers, cars and tracks are just better which is why you can see cars stating close for a whole race, and dueling 2-wide for half a track on a regular basis and that you would wait years to see before. And it usually ended up in tears anyway. Nowadays battles are almost all wow moments (some dirty driving still remains though..)

 

Before the seasons would also be blatantly manipulated by the organizers as to almost lose any sporting value whatsoever which was exasperating and lowered F1 to the gutter, but that's also being erased thankfully.



#5 KingTiger

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:07

I agree TC. F1 is a sad shell of it's past glory. I seriously can't see how new viewers would want to get interested in this joke. 



#6 Afterburner

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:13

I'm not talking about the dominance of Red Bull Racing or Sebastian Vettel. The history of Formula 1 was full of dominant performances. What kind of bothers me is the lack of emotion and passion for Formula 1. The thing that had you on the edge of the seat, like a build up to a battle, the art of overtaking has become a random apperance. There is no over-taking, theres overbuttoning in a way. Championship points are like rain falling on everybody, instead of a hard fought reason for celebration. Its just less emotion all around. Theres less drifts, less tire smoke, less of the spectacular engine blow ups, less top speed, less great sound, less of a full of emotion car like a powerful animal. But much more saving tires, more strategy type driving, smaller car. Remember when there used to be almost no penalties. Drivers duke it out nobody interfers in the race, just the natural way the race develops. Has F1 lost alot of character which made it great? The "awesomeness" of it. Awesome things in sport are spectacular things. F1 appears to be less spectacular compared to the past on alot of 'details' and major changes like the lousy push to pass button integration of DRS, which I feel is the major breaker of F1 together with tires that do not allow to see spectacular driving as well as it could.
 
Imagine putting the current roster of Formula 1 drivers, into races with cars of 2007, 2003, 2001, 1997 or 1991. Even 2010, a more recent example would be better. Is this just the way things are heading and the end vision is a F-Zero type of video game apperance of F1. Where are the super fat tires, the sparks, the blow ups, the beautiful action and rawness.

First of all, I wouldn't be using F-Zero as a negative example--in many ways, that game is more like old-style F1 than new (e.g. near-unlimited regs, 'rubbing is racing' applies). That franchise's last iteration was a game that better conveyed a sense of speed than anything else I've ever played, bar none. I'd love to see F1 get that far in my lifetime.

Secondly, the regs themselves have sucked all the character out of F1. It needs to open up its rulebook again and allow teams to go crazy with aero, engines, tyres, whatever. People are worried about costs being an issue--well, if you make F1 an unlimited technological playground again, you'll attract the big money like Audi, and suddenly there will be some competition again. I know it's nowhere near as simple as that, and you can't just suddenly change everything all at once, but if F1 were to start heading down that road again some of the excitement would return. I think the main barrier for this happening is that it doesn't fit the FIA's 'green and safe' agenda, so therefore any attempt to make the cars louder, meaner, and faster is going to result in an instant veto.

I may elaborate more as the thread develops, but in short, I think the regs are to blame. I could probably summarise the entire issue for most people by saying that I'd rather see a bunch of Red Bull X-1's racing each other than a bunch of sterilized-looking mini-V6 crapwagons.

#7 Andrew Hope

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:23

F1 is very close to my heart, but so are my lungs and I wouldn't get up at 8am every Sunday for 10 years to watch them splattered on my TV unless they were pretty damn entertaining. And F1 is entertaining. It's dramatic, exciting, heartwrenching.. if it's a word you learned in grade 4, F1 is probably it. F1 is everything it thinks it is, just not enough of that. It's exciting and dramatic about as often in any given year as walking across the street on the way to the grocery store is. Every so often, something memorable happens, but not nearly often enough.

 

I wish I was as emotionally invested in IndyCar like I was in F1, because in terms of close racing and genuine, spontaneous excitement, IndyCar has kicked the ever-loving shit out of F1 the last two years and almost no one has noticed.



#8 pingu666

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:27

its gone abit meh for me too tbh

but still watch, cos its F1



#9 bourbon

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:30

This is clearly a great era, in my opinion the best. Before you had cars breaking down all the time, and the ones that ran were so spaced out there was no racing anywhere. And of the little fighting there was, it usually ended up with cars trailing for half a race, a crash or the dirtiest move winning the duel. Not fun at all. Lot's of bad tracks didn't help either.

 

Nowadays the drivers, cars and tracks are just better which is why you can see cars stating close for a whole race, and dueling 2-wide for half a track on a regular basis and that you would wait years to see before. And it usually ended up in tears anyway. Nowadays battles are almost all wow moments (some dirty driving still remains though..)

 

Before the seasons would also be blatantly manipulated by the organizers as to almost lose any sporting value whatsoever which was exasperating and lowered F1 to the gutter, but that's also being erased thankfully.

 

This :up:



#10 Juggles

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:47

I understand what the OP is getting at because I also feel it and also find it quite hard to put into words. There is something missing which is making F1 slightly insipid. I think there are a few contributing factors:

 

1) Inflation. So many facets of the sport seem to have fallen prey to a 'quantity over quality' mentality. More overtakes, more races, more battles, which in theory is all great, but it hasn't made the sport more exciting. I don't want to complain too much about overtakes because I think it's better to be too easy than too difficult; 2007 and 2008 were ridiculous because you needed a couple of seconds advantage or a mistake from the defending driver; at least now a driver doesn't have his entire race ruined by an overladen Toyota. I still think it's a massive shame we never got to see the ultra durable Bridgestone tyres but with DRS; I really think that could have been the perfect balance. Racing wouldn't have been actively discouraged as it is with the Pirellis, but getting alongside wouldn't have been quite as difficult as it was before. My main beef is actually with the number of races. Sixteen is the perfect number in my opinion. Beyond that, the excitement of each race starts to wane for me as it loses an air of exclusivity. Some people on this forum go nuts when there isn't a race for three weeks but I'm fine with that; it makes it all the more enjoyable when one comes around; I wouldn't want to eat Christmas dinner every day. More races also makes it more and more likely that the best funded team will develop their way to the championship.

 

2) An ever more single-minded obsession with the championship driven by the media and the drivers. Obviously it has always been a mathematical, mechanical sport but it seems like some of the joy of racing has been ripped out by the total focus on results. Even the spontaneous moments, e.g. Alonso and Webber giving each other rides seemed strangely devoid of emotion, almost scripted, as if they were doing it for the image rather than a spontaneous moment of individuality. The commentators laud these moments as iconic but I found myself thinking nothing but "meh." Just like Premiership football which I find almost unwatchable now (the sickening hype around it means that when I go back to the UK now I go along to watch my local League 1 team play instead and find it much more enjoyable) F1 has become an over-commercialised product with a lot more hot air than it used to have but no more substance.

 

The simple answer to the OP is yes - this is the best field of drivers ever assembled and the sport isn't nearly as exciting as it should be. The Red Bull dominance exacerbates it but it isn't the root cause of the problem.



#11 Gorma

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:15

This :up:

x2

#12 seahawk

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:08

I think the fans have changed and the media has changed. The basic respect for the driver has gone and we now have more fanboys of a driver than fans of the sport watching the races. Just look at how nationalistic some major TV stations have become in their F1 reporting. When Prost and Senna dominated F1 in their McLaren´s fans had respect for the car McLaren had built. Today the fans complain about the "cheating" RBR which is destroying racing. Back then we fans were impressed when a team found a loophole in the rules, today fans are turned off by the "cheating". For me F1 has become random and artifical, more like Motor Sport Entertainment than racing.


Edited by seahawk, 18 October 2013 - 06:12.


#13 apoka

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:55

I think we are in a great era. It's not perfect, but the past wasn't (much) better - it is just more glorified in hindsight.

 

For instance, the field nowadays is very close. You often only have a rough idea where a driver ends up in qualy and race (sometimes with the exception of Vettel). Taking a corner slightly better than your opponents can make a difference in qualy, whereas in some older seasons, there were huge gaps between the drivers. In the race, cars are often involved in battles and not completely spread out. Of course, there are also boring and predictable races.

 

Looking at the overtakes, I think there are also non-DRS passes. I don't really think DRS and KERS destroy racing - at least not when it is correctly balanced for each track. KERS is actually quite nice, since it allows the drivers to play around a bit for attacking and defending. It creates new opportunities, but doesn't make the overtaking move much easier. In general, I think there is a bit too much overtaking, but part of that is down to the tyres. I don't agree that overtaking is always dull, for example Vettel overtaking Webber in Malaysia was great stuff. The tyres are actually what I disliked most in some races this season. It would be great to have tyres, which allow drivers to be closer to the limit, while still allowing for interesting strategies. That's also the main reason why there are fewer mistakes now - when you are not on the limit, there is less risk.



#14 Schuttelberg

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:01

Formula 1, like any other sport has it's share of improvements as well as downsides at the moment. For me, F1 is as safe as any other form of racing and one has to applaud the people that are responsible for it. Accidents these days, are just as horrific but there's a lot of procedures in place to react to them. However, F1 is getting really expensive. While it's fanbase is expanding and getting more global, it seems like the teams are really struggling. I don't know much about the details, but something tells me that the organisers and teams don't earn any different to the yester years in terms of percentage. It needs to change, before there are all but 6-7 teams on the grid.

 

Coming to the racing bit, I like DRS. I think, the aero effect on cars is so much these days, that it makes it quite pivotal to have an overtaking aid. Mind you, this isn't an aid to the driver, it's an aid to the aero effect which prevents overtaking ala dirty air. It's not like the drivers of the past could pass and these chaps need aid. The demands of the cars and engineering are such that this aid is needed. It's a little circuit oriented and I'd like to see some tweaks to DRS but no more. I can't imagine a race at Singapore without DRS, however DRS makes it a no show at Canada. So, it requires tweaks, but that's all. I'd actually make KERS available only to the car defending and not attacking to make passes a bit more strategic and interesting. Sometimes, the car defending has almost got to surrender his place. 

 

Lastly, I've enjoyed all eras of F1 I've been involved in. I miss the prime of Michael Schumacher more than anything else, but I have no doubt that the racing is better these days. I love the sport and I'll continue to watch as long as I live. I just wish the journalism and fans who have so much access to so much information these days were actually better informed. Other than the fans, who were much more rational back in the day, there's not much wrong with our sport. 



#15 Juggles

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:29

Formula 1, like any other sport has it's share of improvements as well as downsides at the moment. For me, F1 is as safe as any other form of racing and one has to applaud the people that are responsible for it. Accidents these days, are just as horrific but there's a lot of procedures in place to react to them. However, F1 is getting really expensive. While it's fanbase is expanding and getting more global, it seems like the teams are really struggling. I don't know much about the details, but something tells me that the organisers and teams don't earn any different to the yester years in terms of percentage. It needs to change, before there are all but 6-7 teams on the grid.

 

Coming to the racing bit, I like DRS. I think, the aero effect on cars is so much these days, that it makes it quite pivotal to have an overtaking aid. Mind you, this isn't an aid to the driver, it's an aid to the aero effect which prevents overtaking ala dirty air. It's not like the drivers of the past could pass and these chaps need aid. The demands of the cars and engineering are such that this aid is needed. It's a little circuit oriented and I'd like to see some tweaks to DRS but no more. I can't imagine a race at Singapore without DRS, however DRS makes it a no show at Canada. So, it requires tweaks, but that's all. I'd actually make KERS available only to the car defending and not attacking to make passes a bit more strategic and interesting. Sometimes, the car defending has almost got to surrender his place. 

 

Lastly, I've enjoyed all eras of F1 I've been involved in. I miss the prime of Michael Schumacher more than anything else, but I have no doubt that the racing is better these days. I love the sport and I'll continue to watch as long as I live. I just wish the journalism and fans who have so much access to so much information these days were actually better informed. Other than the fans, who were much more rational back in the day, there's not much wrong with our sport. 

 

More likely they just had less channels to express quite how irrational they were.



#16 mnmracer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:35

The problem with these sort of semantics is usually the feeling of nostalgia. And when you look at 'the best overtakes of the '80s', it's easy to pick out fantastic battles over 10 years of time, but it is not truly representative of what that era was. Sure, there were amazing battles, but usually most races were won with double the margins of today.



#17 DarthWillie

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:53

I prefer this era to the refuelling era, were people just drove from pitstop to pitstop only overtaking in the pits. I seem to recall a race in Barcelona? with 2 or 3 on track overtakes :down:

 

DRS needs some finetuning but as we have seen in korea, if it doesn't guarantee an overtake, then it is ok. Also I really like how the non drs overtakes have increased.

 

on the downside, to many races on too many dull tracks.

 

Also internet is taking some fun away, back in the old day :lol:  I had BBC Ceefax and out of work on friday i Bought autosport and tuesdays motorsport aktuell. That was the info. Alway exciting to learn something new. Now whe know everything immediately, Somehow that costs some excitement



#18 dau

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:55

[...] Where are the super fat tires, the sparks, the blow ups, the beautiful action and rawness.

 

LJVgIwy.jpg

 

Sorry, would love to write more about this, but i really need a coffee first or my head will just hit the keyboard at one point and cxmmhgcghhhhhhhhhhfvjzhf

 

F1 is very close to my heart, but so are my lungs and I wouldn't get up at 8am every Sunday for 10 years to watch them splattered on my TV unless they were pretty damn entertaining. [...]

An experience that would surely leave you breathless.



#19 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:02

Nothing is ever faultless and perfect but despite some flaws here and there I think F1 is in a pretty great shape. 

 

There are things that are not so good - push a button overtaking, teams struggling for finances, some anonymous character lacking tracks and venues, more "pay" drivers, Pirelli tyres. But none of them are big issues and races are usually entertaining and exciting. 

 

I'd say we are not missing out on a great era in F1. I believe we are vitnessing one. 



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#20 Lights

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:13

This 'problem' is mainly built on nostalgia and human's natural resistance to change.



#21 Raven8

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:31

DRS & Pirelli tyres take away a lot of the quality in F1



#22 Juggles

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:46

This 'problem' is mainly built on nostalgia and human's natural resistance to change.

 

Possibly, but change doesn't always mean improvement. Take safety: banning cars made from magnesium is an improvement; racing in a car park is not.



#23 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:52

Make a rule where they're forced to clean up the air coming out of the rear of the car allowing cars to get closer in the corners

#24 Mrluke

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:13

Dont we already have a Pirelli and DRS are killing F1 thread?

 

Personally I agree that f1 is overly restrictive which has taken away all of the differential between the cars. Each year every team turns up with a car that is 98% the same as their competitors. If they were all painted the same colour, joe public would struggle to tell them apart. 

 

Change may not always be better, but without change, progress is impossible.


Edited by Mrluke, 17 October 2013 - 09:14.


#25 PaulTodd

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:20

Make a rule where they're forced to clean up the air coming out of the rear of the car allowing cars to get closer in the corners

Your right. Take away a large amount of aerodynamics and give them plenty of mechanical grip.

 

We have wings with wings with little winglets on them!



#26 Exb

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:51

No - I don't feel I am missing out on a great era as I am enjoying the racing we currently have, in my opinion the past few years have seen some epic battles between some amazing drivers and I feel lucky I am getting to witness this. I don't know if others put too much enjoyment on the result (if their favourite driver/team doesn't do well then they're not happy). I'm a McLaren fan and there have definately been more lows than highs since the last rule change in 2009 but that doesn't stop me appreciating the efforts of others - Fernando always seeming to be there even if his car does not look the best (and those starts!), some great overtakes from Kimi, Nico H with some eyecatching performances for all 3 teams he's been with, the improvement and sheer speed of that Merc this year, and of cause the perfection of the Red Bull team.
We have some great drivers at the moment - Lewis, Fernando, Seb and Kimi and over the last 5 years the cars have been close enough to allow them all to fight for victories (thats at least 4 teams fighting at the front) and thats better than at certain points in the past.

#27 Spillage

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:50

I think people have short memories. Think back to the title showdown at Brazil last year and tell me you weren't excited. Go on, I dare you.



#28 EvanRainer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:59

Yawn.

 

Yet another person that mentions engine blowups as something "spectacular" and positive. Are you serious?

 

I won't compare with the more distant past, but F1 from say 2006 onwards is INFINITELY better than F1 from 1991-2005

 

And the last thing we need is for F1 to go back to being endurance racing. The 80s that everyone including me remember fondly, were an utter joke when it comes to reliability. How can you have good racing and overtaking with cars that have vast performance gaps and fail all the time?


Edited by EvanRainer, 17 October 2013 - 11:02.


#29 Wander

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:05

In the latest motorsport magazine podcast, Tony Brooks said, that the current iteration of F1 is very exciting and close, but it is a completely different sport from what it was in his day.

 

"The difference between racing in the 50s and racing today -- It is a question one gets asked very frequently and I think they expect you to talk about the cars, and of course the only thing in common really is that both have 5 wheels, four road wheels and a steering wheel. But I'm not sure if it's a steering wheel or an instrument today. -- So the cars, as I say, very little in common with them, but what the real difference is, is the psychological challenge.---Because we were racing on ordinary roads, any mistake you made could be your last ----It had to get safer. But in getting safer, in my view, it became a different sport. The analogy I make is, would mountaineering be the same sport if you had a harness around your body with a self-adjusting cable from the harness to the top of the mountain. Would that still be mountaineering? I suggest not. And that's what's happened to Formula 1. It had to happen, because in my day there were three or four drivers on average getting killed every year through the fifties. --- But it is no longer Grand Prix Motor Racing, it is Grand Prix Spectacular."

 

He also later goes on to make the connection between the sport changing and the increasing development of the aerodynamics.

 

And I think he's absolutely right. The sport is completely different. It's in fact completely different even from what it was 30 years ago, which was already completely different from 20 years before that. So the sport has changed, and it's not the only one to do so, but the changes are more dramatic in Formula 1 than in, say, tennis, because F1 is so dependent on the technology available. So to me it's obvious that there will be people who may have liked the sport F1 was some decades ago, but don't like the sport today, because it is a very different sport. And it will be different once again 30 years from today.

 

I think it should be remembered that F1 is not the be all and end all form of motor sport. It is just the one with the most advanced cars. I am enjoying F1 right now for what it is and am not really one of the most vocal complainers here, because, as I see it, the sport will evolve regardless. You either watch it or don't. I left many races unwatched in the Schumacher dominance years as well as some of 2011, because I didn't find it that exciting. But right now I'm trying to maintain a degree of optimism for 2014, which obviously features the biggest changes to the sport in quite some time now. And I have no idea how it's going to work out. All I know for sure is that some people will be happier with the changes it brings and others will complain. Like always.


Edited by Wander, 17 October 2013 - 12:07.


#30 MikeV1987

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:05

Tires make us miss out on a lot of action, It's really annoying to see a driver closing up onto the guy ahead only to have his race engineer come on the radio and tell him to maintain a gap to preserve his tires. Totally lame and it completely turns me off of the sport. That being said if they don't improve things next season I think it's safe to say I will start watching some other series. Being in Canada, it's so hard to watch a live race in the first place, so it's frustrating to see all these changes happen for the sake of 'entertainment'. Now It's more about tire management than outright speed, which I think is totally wrong for F1.

 

I am also not a fan of DRS but I can deal with that.



#31 RosannaG

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:13

I have been enjoying F1 for the last... Whatever, let's say for a long, long time  ;)  and I don't know if it is because I'm not a nostalgic person but I don't miss the past times (overall the horrible crashes I witnessed) We are here, now and I am having a great time!  :p  As always! 


Edited by RosannaG, 17 October 2013 - 11:14.


#32 MikeV1987

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:19

I also kind of miss the reliability problems tbh, It was one of reasons why 2010 was so exciting. Next year we'll see a lot of issues I'm sure.



#33 ReeVe

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:26

if the internet existed when Clark lapped the whole field and Senna outqualified Prost for Monaco by 1.5 seconds trust me, people would whine. Cause whining feeds on itself, a minor annoyance becomes the end of the world oh my god they destroyed F1 with CF cokebottle chassis and wings and ground effect and turbo and active suspensions and renault v10s and and and

 

 

F1 is great. You can't always have races that result in a photofinish and championships decided on the final lap of the final race of the season. Excellence used to be celebrated, even when F1 was a Lotus walkover, or a McLaren picnick or a Williams interlude. Right now you have reliable cars, a field where the top 15 most often than not are covered by less than what P1-P2 was covered 20 years ago. The "problem" is the drivers don't have a beer and packet of cigarettes before getting in the car, they are athletes, and compared to 20-30-40 years ago they are immensely consistent. Manufacturing has moved on to the point people assume that 2 cars in the same team would be identical to the thousandth of a second, and yes, we rely on aero for performance and that has a sideeffect, dirty air destroys performance.



#34 sennafan24

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:55

My two cents

 

I enjoyed the opening post for the record

 

When watching the Korea race, it did cross my mind that if we lived in a world where Seb Vettel/RB did not exist, this years Championship would probably be a nail-biting closely ran contest between Lewis, Kimi and Alonso. I would suggest that few would complain if this were the case. Dominance is not something most people want to see, people like closely run contests and the drama in brings. The Seb/RB combination is a little too good for the sport currently.

 

I thought I would address that before answering the question about character.

 

Brundle and Irvine have both been critical of the modern landscape of F1, Brundle is worried that when Bernie leaves it will be run too much like a business and it will suck the character out of F1, Irvine feels DRS and Kers create artificial racing. A lot also do not like how much tyres have become such a factor.

 

I was watching 2007/2008 seasons reviews over the Summer, and for myself I would say those regulations were about right, they seemed to find a happy medium in those years. 2005 was no good due to the lack of overtaking allowed, whereas 2007 and 2008 seemed like the most reflective racing to me as a viewer. They found a happy medium.

 

That said I greatly prefer the qualifying set-up these days. F1 is still a great spectacle, races like Hungary and Japan provided me with great thrills. 

 

There is no going back though, the 2014 regulations will provide us with new variables that will make the sport look different to what we have become used to in 2012-2013. F1 is a constantly evolving animal, always has been always will be.



#35 Jon83

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:25

There is still some good overtaking. Even some moves where DRS ,in some part, is used can be good (Grosjean on Hamilton in Valencia for example)

 

The OP is wrong to state there is none.



#36 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:25

Yawn.

 

Yet another person that mentions engine blowups as something "spectacular" and positive. Are you serious?

 

I won't compare with the more distant past, but F1 from say 2006 onwards is INFINITELY better than F1 from 1991-2005

 

And the last thing we need is for F1 to go back to being endurance racing. The 80s that everyone including me remember fondly, were an utter joke when it comes to reliability. How can you have good racing and overtaking with cars that have vast performance gaps and fail all the time?

 

In 2006 F1 was already dead with the demise of the V10 and the rev limit. I still hate that.

 

Cars failed when they were on the limit. Parts could be exchanged when needed. We now have the focus on reliability. Only a few engines, gearboxes, etc.



#37 Jon83

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:43

In 2006 F1 was already dead with the demise of the V10 and the rev limit. I still hate that.

 

Cars failed when they were on the limit. Parts could be exchanged when needed. We now have the focus on reliability. Only a few engines, gearboxes, etc.

 

:up:

 

And that is only going to get worse.



#38 DaddyCool

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:57

IMO, too much limitation is the problem. We have limited number of freezed engines and gearboxes, limited tyres (2 compunds per race, limited amount of sets, limited durability), rev limiter, KERS is limited to X secs, limited use of DRS, etc. It's all about finding a compromise now.


Edited by DaddyCool, 17 October 2013 - 12:57.


#39 ReeVe

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 13:07

IMO, too much limitation is the problem. We have limited number of freezed engines and gearboxes, limited tyres (2 compunds per race, limited amount of sets, limited durability), rev limiter, KERS is limited to X secs, limited use of DRS, etc. It's all about finding a compromise now.

 

well with all the limitations you still need round about 100 million per season to have a hope of regularly scoring points. Imagine what would happen without the limitations. 6 car grids



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#40 tifosiMac

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 13:10

I think this is a great era.

 

We have at least 4 drivers currently competing towards the front and unlike many other era's you can't actually point at one particular driver being the best.



#41 BenettonB192

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 13:15

F1 in its current form isn't perfect but it's better then most of the years i witnessed (started watching in 91).

Sure i get being nostalgic about the old cars. I miss the masculinity and rawness of the old machinery.

But the sport itself isn't in a bad place. People already forget how boring F1 races often were. Even now when Seb runs away with a championship most races are entertaining at least to some degree. I don't remember this being the case too often back in the old days when a driver dominated a championship.



#42 sopa

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 14:00

if the internet existed when Clark lapped the whole field and Senna outqualified Prost for Monaco by 1.5 seconds trust me, people would whine. Cause whining feeds on itself, a minor annoyance becomes the end of the world oh my god they destroyed F1 with CF cokebottle chassis and wings and ground effect and turbo and active suspensions and renault v10s and and and

 

I agree.

What is maybe not recognized is that people have been the same throughout the history. People complain now, 50 years from now on, 50 years ago. Based on life and circumstances complaints can vary a little, but nonetheless it is very much in human nature.

 

Of course if you do not have live TV nor you can follow races on live timing and get tens of news items on a daily basis on the Internet, you have a difference perspective on a sport. I'd say for those, who haven't got the opportunity to race meetings, F1 has become much more personal over time. Back when you got only an odd snippet here or there, it was more remote.

 

But believe me, if the races and F1 technology were the same 50 years ago, but we had all the modern access with Internet and telecommunications with live TV, camera angles, live timing, forums, and with all these we got to see exactly the same races, we would still have the same stuff as now with as personal and close feeling to the action as now. Imagine some standard forum threads from 50 years ago.

 

Is Phil Hill the worst WDC ever?

Clark has not yet proven he is a match to Moss, let alone better

Graham Hill - luckiest WDC?

Would McLaren deserve a WDC?

Surtees is overhyped, he is yet to deliver

Ferrari is rubbish. What went wrong after 61?

Why Bandini at Ferrari? Ethnic nepotism at Ferrari

Dan Gurney deserves a top car, he would embarrass the rest of the grid there

Is Brabham rubbish or just past his prime? Gets beaten by his team-mate in his own car FGS

Is Clark afraid of top-class team-mates?
Chapman loves Clark

Is the Lotus legal?

Porsche is rubbish, they should quit

Was Phil Hill insane to join ATS?

Will anyone take the fight to Clark? F1 bores to death (non-pun intended) these days

Hope 1964 is better, not the borefest we had this year

Is Domination good for F1?

Which one was worse - 61 Ferrari domination or 63 Clark domination?

 

Nowadays with the media access all groups of people have access to being an F1 fan, while back in the day you have to be an enthusiast of the sport to have access.


Edited by sopa, 17 October 2013 - 14:05.


#43 E.B.

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 15:20

 

Nowadays the drivers, cars and tracks are just better

 

Drivers?  Maybe - there are several top quality ones around, but there have been eras of comparable quality in the past. Difficult to call.

Cars?  Yep - faster, safer, much more reliable.

Tracks? No. No. Just no.



#44 discover23

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 15:46

I just don't like DRS, that is all really.. 2010, 2012 were great seasons. This season was going pretty good until mid_season when RB started dominating .. Domination makes it boring but not for technical reasons.

#45 Ali_G

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 16:09

DRS must be the worst thing to happen F1 in the last 10 years.

 

IMO, the following should be done.

 

1.  Strip the aero down further and allow a higher fuel flow limit with the new engines.  That or allow more energy recycling via KERS and TERS systems which will be used in 2014.  Giving the cars a lot more power than they can handle puts more emphasis on how the driver controls the car.  The further reduction in aero should help with overtaking.

2.  To compensate with reduced aero, give the cars a limited amount of downforce generated via ground effect.  Two small venturis placed under each sidepod would do.

3.  Ban DRS.  Kill it with fire for what I care.  It is an abomination.

4.  Unlimited KERS usage. 

5.  Possible reintroduction of manual gearboxes.  Not sure if this could complicate things with KERS harvesting at the back though.

6.  Tyres that don't fall of the edge of a cliff but wear out at a more even rate. 



#46 RealRacing

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 20:33

In the latest motorsport magazine podcast, Tony Brooks said, that the current iteration of F1 is very exciting and close, but it is a completely different sport from what it was in his day.

 

"The difference between racing in the 50s and racing today -- It is a question one gets asked very frequently and I think they expect you to talk about the cars, and of course the only thing in common really is that both have 5 wheels, four road wheels and a steering wheel. But I'm not sure if it's a steering wheel or an instrument today. -- So the cars, as I say, very little in common with them, but what the real difference is, is the psychological challenge.---Because we were racing on ordinary roads, any mistake you made could be your last ----It had to get safer. But in getting safer, in my view, it became a different sport. The analogy I make is, would mountaineering be the same sport if you had a harness around your body with a self-adjusting cable from the harness to the top of the mountain. Would that still be mountaineering? I suggest not. And that's what's happened to Formula 1. It had to happen, because in my day there were three or four drivers on average getting killed every year through the fifties. --- But it is no longer Grand Prix Motor Racing, it is Grand Prix Spectacular."

Last year I watched the 1988-2010 complete seasons or season reviews and last week, after watching Rush, I read about the 1975-1990 seasons again and I have come to the somewhat obvious conclusion that there have always been positives and negatives in F1, but there are seasons that, mostly by chance, managed to bring all the variables together in the best way possible to produce classics. 

 

Looking at the past, I agree with what is said above.  I do not think it was a positive thing to have an average of 4 drivers killed every year of course, but those guys, to me, were true heroes as there was more at stake and conditions were more precarious. But this is, IMO, true for most sports or adventures; climbing Everest, going on an expedition to Antartica or sailing the Southern Ocean had more merit the further back in time you go. In F1 in particular everything was more raw and more of an experiment, the technological boundaries were not so clearly defined and the rules were not so limiting. In that sense, it was exciting as you could, for example, watch a 6 tyre car or a car with a fan behind competing against the "conventional" cars or watch standing starts with pouring rain. It was also more free for the drivers, they had more choices of what could be done with the car, when to qualify, when to push during the race, among others. The tracks were amazing, if sometimes dangerous. But all of this, IMO, gave the drivers a better chance to show their talent and us fans a better chance to enjoy it (so what if Senna wanted to improve his qualy time in Monaco even though he already had more than a sec difference to second or if they had to drive around the same track in pouring rain?). And the whole behavior of the drivers and everything surrounding them was more authentic too.

 

Having said that, the differences were frequently large and the racing on track not always spectacular or fair, the whole organization was less professional and, many times, downright unethical (Balestre anyone?). This brings us to current F1, which, for me, having the potential to produce the best era in F1, has failed to do so and that's what is most annoying. The cars are closest to each other and the talent of the field is as good as any previous era, but the on-track, wheel to wheel racing and the talent display could be much better without certain elements that are relatively easy to change: less aero, no parc ferme rules, free choice of tyres, no mandatory use of compounds, tyres that allowed more racing, no DRS, narrower front wings, no fuel restriction, unlimited laps for qualy, no engine or gearbox penalties affecting the driver, less driver penalties, to name just a few from the top of my head.

 

So yes, as the quote says, maybe today's F1 is not even comparable to even 20 years ago, they are very different and each has it's good and bad points, but IMO, F1 today could exploit it's advantages in a much better way to potentially become one of the best eras of all time.



#47 engineblock1

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 20:58

I think we better not complain about KERS, DRS, tires thing. Let's look at the show part of the sport. It's a trend in some sports like Cricket where the sport has shifted to shorter and much more exciting versions of the game like 20-20 and Super Sixes, where putting up a show is the idea of the game. Since no one really has time and stamina to watch test maches no matter how 'classical' and 'original' cricket you call it, it's obvious fans want more show and shorter version of the game. Same is with F1 fans and the sport.

 

I dont see how the old era or let's say a decade ago was any better from both 'sporting' and 'entertainment' point of view. Do we want Schumacher era back ? No. Moreover I have not witnessed the much talked Senna-Prost era but I dont believe we do not have wheel to wheel racing at the moment. Although the intensity of it seems to be limited due to tires and other factors, drivers these days do go flat out. Infact I have observed such kinds of battles taking place in midfield now a days. It's just that they are not taking place at the top order makes people say they are not happening. They infact are ! We need to shift focus from Vettel and championship to actually find them out and enjoy.

 

The ingredients for the greatest era of F1 is present at the moment. It just needs better blending. We have technical constraints to limit one team from obtaining a ridiculously greater advantage over others, lesser technical failures, qualifying matter more than ever, good mix of drivers who go flat out versus strategic drivers like Button, Alonso. I bet one such year comes where Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Kimi all are in the mix for the title, no one will ever raise the question over current era of F1. It's just Vettel's streak making it monotonous but soon it would be over for better too !



#48 August

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 20:59

I think racing 20+ years ago looked more spectacular. Today's cars look too easy to drive, in the '80s/'90s it looked more like drivers are struggling to keep the car on track. Strip down aero and cars become harder to handle. That also creates more overtaking opportunities plus with less aero it's easier to follow the car ahead.

 

And I really miss the DNF element from F1. DNFs are a part of racing, that's what happens when you try to maximize the potential of the car. When you have a car in 20sec lead after the last pit stop, you have hardly nothing to worry about.

 

F1 is very close to my heart, but so are my lungs and I wouldn't get up at 8am every Sunday for 10 years to watch them splattered on my TV unless they were pretty damn entertaining. And F1 is entertaining. It's dramatic, exciting, heartwrenching.. if it's a word you learned in grade 4, F1 is probably it. F1 is everything it thinks it is, just not enough of that. It's exciting and dramatic about as often in any given year as walking across the street on the way to the grocery store is. Every so often, something memorable happens, but not nearly often enough.

 

I wish I was as emotionally invested in IndyCar like I was in F1, because in terms of close racing and genuine, spontaneous excitement, IndyCar has kicked the ever-loving shit out of F1 the last two years and almost no one has noticed.

 

Good points. I also watched all races for years because sometimes something memorable happens. But that happens too seldom and that's why I don't anymore care if I miss a race.

 

And if only I knew IndyCar better, I'd probably enjoy it. The few IndyCar races I've seen have been great pure racing. Maybe it's lacking other aspects of F1 and that's why I don't care about it so much.



#49 SebnandoKimilton

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 21:00

Nope, we are witnessing a great era of F1.

 

Entertaining racing almost every race weekend, we just need to get rid of DRS. There is top racing talent throughout the field & there is always a good battle going on, even if its not for the lead. 

 

The top 4 drivers, in the top 4 teams battling it out. The Red Bull is dominant now sure, but look back to pre-Spa, going into a race weekend you felt as if any of 4 cars could win. By F1 standards 4 race-win contenders is impressive, the teams are being bunched closer together by tight regulations that its impossible for someone to replicate the dominance of Mclaren in '88 or Williams in '92.

 

We have 4 incredible drivers, probably the top 4 on the grid, in 4 different teams, all of which have been fighting at the top this season & next year the two most legendary of those drivers will partner each other promising fireworks & incredible racing on track between the two Ferrari's. We have a multi world champion who we have the pleasure of watching race for another 10 ish years in the sport & is already breaking records and targeting the ones we thought could never be topped.

 

We have had scandals involving drivers who disobey their teams and teams conducting illegal tyre tests & getting caught red handed.

 

Whether your a fan of close on-track racing, records being broken or competition in which people will go to all lengths for victory, we have it, F1 is in a golden era at the moment, if you are oblivious to it because of what the final standings show then I feel sorry for you. 



#50 Longtimefan

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 21:16

I agree, theres no passion anymore.  its dull cars racing around dull tracks with dull drivers.