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Kimi's relationship with Lotus


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#1801 Trust

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:01

AMuS reporting a possible switch between Hulk and Kimi for last two races:

http://m.auto-motor-...er-7888452.html

I find it very hard to believe.. More likely Kimi not driving and Hulkenberg gets the seat.

This is interesting. I would pay to see this happen. Just to compare performances.



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#1802 santori

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:02

First he says that he has learned nothing, and then in other sentence he says
how he has learned to set up a car and use data. So he has learned the most important things of racing how to set up a race car.You get it now?

 

I get that some of his fans are supernaturally touchy on his behalf.

 

I get that Kimi can be blunt to the point of rudeness and he's the epitome of cool, but if anyone doesn't handle him with kid gloves they're 'whining', or 'cocky', or 'slow'.

 

I get that Grosjean would probably like a bit more interaction with his teammate but realises that isn't going to happen.

 

I get that Grosjean praises Kimi's abilities as a driver and says how much he's learned from observing his data. 



#1803 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:07

First he says that he has learned nothing, and then in other sentence he says
how he has learned to set up a car and use data. So he has learned the most important things of racing how to set up a race car.You get it now?

 

Not to pick on you for that, but you made a least three grammatical errors in these sentences (edit: and you made an edit after you published), and that's when writing at your own pace. Romain left out an adverb ("directly") while talking (presumably in a foreign language) during an interview.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 03 November 2013 - 11:13.


#1804 UPRC

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:11

That's pretty much what I implied didn't I? Of course Kimi has global appeal. That is not what I was addressing. I was addressing the difficulty in capitalizing on that. How do you market a product with Kimi to Spanish fans? To English fans? To German fans? To Brazilian fans? Within countries like those an F1 driver might have enough fans that warrant a company waging a media campaign and to justify paying an F1 driver, a driver who is from there or is a native speaker of the language.

 

Outside of those few countries where an F1 driver is a celebrity, how can marketing reach a driver's fans? Do you put Kimi on American tv ads for Pabst Blue Ribbon to appeal to the handful of hip(ster) Americans who A] know and care who Raikkonen is and B] would actually be swayed by marketing to make it worth the expense? I doubt it.

 

You need to remember that some fans dont care about nationality at all. Kimi's by far my all time favourite driver, followed closely by Schumacher and Panis. Does Villeneuve factor into who I like? No, not really, and I won't be rallying behind any new Canadian drivers simply because they're from my own country. Nationalities don't seem to matter much to the hardcore F1 fans, so we are pretty much a non-factor. Casual fans who only have a passing interest in the sport may be more inclined to support their fellow countryman, but the casual fans aren't the ones buying all the merchandise.   ;)



#1805 nomi

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:15

Genii are just venture (vulture) capitalists.

 

They don't give a shit about Lotus, F1 or Kimi. It's all about their personal profits.



#1806 Shiroo

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:16

Let's have the whole quote:

 

"Kimi is a fantastic driver and a great world champion and a good reference point for me. But then he's … Kimi. He doesn't speak much, doesn't say much. The relationship is a bit strange. I've learned almost nothing from Kimi. But from the data, looking at the way he works and set up the car and the way he thinks about things, these things I have taken."

 

So he says (presumably in English, not French) that Kimi is a great driver, a good reference point but also that he's Kimi and so he hasn't learnt much from him directly. Grosjean has had other teammates and so is in a position to compare them. He doesn't seem very critical.

 

So what are you all complaining about?

 

Don't you know, that it is better to take words out of the context? Especially from non native speaker



#1807 swerved

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:17

It's all relative though. He was paid north of £15 million to sod off from Ferrari after all wasn't he?

 

£10k per race in expenses (and lets be honest, it doesn't cost anyone this much) = £200k over a season. I cannot imagine that it wasn't costing/is costing more to fund Iceman racing or whatever he calls it.

 

Still, it's a bit shocking but this is modern F1 and there's no cash flow. He WILL get paid at the end of the season so I suggest he shuts up and acts like a professional with several million in the bank. Lotus gave him a springboard back into Ferrari & F1 in general and will be paying him an astronomical amount of money (their own fault of course) in due course - I'd say he's done rather well out of the whole deal without risking the livelyhood of 500+ people in Enstone by his press comments.

 

I bet Alonso Massa Vettel Webber Button Perez Hamilton and Rosberg get paid, to say there's no cash flow in F1 is ridiculous, It's not his fault if Lopez can't manage the finances correctly, and as for the bit in bold, more rubbish, the 500 employees are not Raikkonens responsibility, they're the responsibility of their employer.



#1808 Vesuvius

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:26

Let's have the whole quote:

"Kimi is a fantastic driver and a great world champion and a good reference point for me. But then he's … Kimi. He doesn't speak much, doesn't say much. The relationship is a bit strange. I've learned almost nothing from Kimi. But from the data, looking at the way he works and set up the car and the way he thinks about things, these things I have taken."

So he says (presumably in English, not French) that Kimi is a great driver, a good reference point but also that he's Kimi and so he hasn't learnt much from him directly. Grosjean has had other teammates and so is in a position to compare them. He doesn't seem very critical.

So what are you all complaining about?


Funny thing is that Lopez,Boullier,Allison and Permane has said Romain has learned a lot of stuff from Kimi...Permane for example said that Romain has learned massively from Kimi when it comes to tyre management.

#1809 jedioriginal

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:27

Not to pick on you for that, but you made a least three grammatical errors in these sentences (edit: and you made an edit after you published), and that's when writing at your own pace. Romain left out an adverb ("directly") while talking (presumably in a foreign language) during an interview.

True.My English is not that good,it's my third language and im typing with my mobile phone really fast while im working... So i get what you are saying,him being a French, but Gro just said that he haven't learned anything and right after says that he has learned to set up a car and use data. So i think it is not unfair to critize that comment...

#1810 Shiroo

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:31

Funny thing is that Lopez,Boullier,Allison and Permane has said Romain has learned a lot of stuff from Kimi...Permane for example said that Romain has learned massively from Kimi when it comes to tyre management.

 

HE SAID that he learnt from Kimi but in INDIRECT WAY. It means he didn't come to Kimi with 1l vodka and asked him "How I'm supposed to approach this corner so my tyres won't go badoom". Instead of this, he got Kimi's data from telemtry from whcih he learnt on.



#1811 223

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:35

You need to remember that some fans dont care about nationality at all. Kimi's by far my all time favourite driver, followed closely by Schumacher and Panis. Does Villeneuve factor into who I like? No, not really, and I won't be rallying behind any new Canadian drivers simply because they're from my own country. Nationalities don't seem to matter much to the hardcore F1 fans, so we are pretty much a non-factor. Casual fans who only have a passing interest in the sport may be more inclined to support their fellow countryman, but the casual fans aren't the ones buying all the merchandise.   ;)

 

I am one of those fans. It would be fun to see a tv ad with Kimi pulling up to a Tim Horton's drive thru for a double-double in his F1 car but it just ain't gonna happen. He is a nobody here except to hardcore F1 fans. I'm guessing there are much more well known Finns playing hockey here than Kimi (I don't follow hockey anymore), and outside the F1 fan bubble I bet the same is true for most other countries.

 

If you're the kind of company shelling out millions to sponsor an international sports figure (and remember in the context of this discussion we are talking the kind of dough that can turn an F1 teams's fortunes around), sponsors have to be sure the athlete is well known enough to the general public that people don't go "who the hell is that guy?" when their tv ad airs. ;) 



#1812 jedioriginal

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:36

HE SAID that he learnt from Kimi but in INDIRECT WAY. It means he didn't come to Kimi with 1l vodka and asked him "How I'm supposed to approach this corner so my tyres won't go badoom". Instead of this, he got Kimi's data from telemtry from whcih he learnt on.

True. That is probably what he was trying to say...Heh, and as Kimi supporter i just can't even imagine how would that discussion sound like."umm, öhhhmm, what ever:)

#1813 fabr68

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:41

Bernie Ecclestone talks to the Irish Mirror about Kimi Raikkonen (@KimiFanPage) here is the link:

http://www.irishmirr...ikkonen-2670960

Why more sensible Bernie?

But he is not going to intervene:
What consequences? What does he mean?
OMG, I'm surprised of what Villeneuve says in the same article:

I think Raikkonen is really getting shafted now. All it takes is for Lotus to tell Bernie they are out if they have to pay him because they dont have the money. If Raikkonen refuses to race, the "consequences" are that well, he will need a valid Superlicense to come back and race for Ferrari. This sport is not soccer but rather an entertainment business. Raikkonen is screwed.

Edited by fabr68, 03 November 2013 - 11:45.


#1814 artista

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:43

what does Räikkönen's superlicense have to do with all this?

 

Superlicenses are granted by the FIA not Bernie, and if you have driven F1 in the last two years you have it granted.



#1815 fabr68

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:46

what does Räikkönen's superlicense have to do with all this?

Superlicenses are granted by the FIA not Bernie, and if you have driven F1 in the last two years you have it granted.

Please, dont be naive.

Refusing to race could be considered as bringing the sport into a disrupt, as regulated by FIA code.
Remember Indianapolis 2005?

Raikkonen can date Lotus in courts all he wants, but if he does anything that taps on the sport owners wallet, he will get both ears twisted and will make him squeal.

Edited by fabr68, 03 November 2013 - 11:53.


#1816 indian

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:54

Please, dont be naive.

Refusing to race could be considered as bringing the sport into a disrupt, as regulated by FIA code.
Remember Indianapolis 2005?

 

Were it the drivers or the teams that refused to race at Indy 2005?

 

As long as there are 22 cars on the grid, I don't think FIA will care.



#1817 Cool Beans

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:55

AMuS reporting a possible switch between Hulk and Kimi for last two races:

http://m.auto-motor-...er-7888452.html

I find it very hard to believe.. More likely Kimi not driving and Hulkenberg gets the seat.

I want to see this happen. 



#1818 artista

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:56

Please, dont be naive.

Refusing to race could be considered as bringing the sport into a disrupt, as regulat3d by FIA code.
Remember Indianapolis 2005?

Not paying your drivers is also bringing the sport into disrepute.

Are you really comparing a driver breaking a contract and staying at home with the mess of Indianapolis 2005? By that logic, each time a team has broken the contract of a driver middle in a season has brought the sport into disrepute. Drivers have not been taken away their superlicenses for taking part in spying-gates, crash-gates and so on, which obviously does put the sport into disrepute.

 

Moreover, can you imagine Jean Todt taking Räikkönen's superlicense away, I mean, Todt, that Todt that seems to think Kimi Räikkönen is a teddy-bear and can't stop hugging him non-stop each time they meet in WRC or F1?

 

Chances are much higher Bernie is talking about the issue ending up in court with Lotus and Kimi fighting there, which might mean years of fighting and no money at all at the end of the day



#1819 artista

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:59

I want to see this happen. 

I don't think the article is taking the thing as a real possibility. I understand it more as an essay, where Schmidt tries to reason what might happen if Kimi does leave Lotus.

The reasoning is that Lotus needs somebody to bring points because of their fight for 2nd position in WCC, which would mind they would need Hülkenberg, who is also not being really paid and can jump teams if he wishes. That would put Sauber in a silly position where they would need Kimi because they are also fighting in the WCC and there are 6 millions more on the table.



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#1820 swerved

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:00

Please, dont be naive.

Refusing to race could be considered as bringing the sport into a disrupt, as regulated by FIA code.
Remember Indianapolis 2005?

Raikkonen can date Lotus in courts all he wants, but if he does anything that taps on the sport owners wallet, he will get both ears twisted and will make him squeal.

 

 

 

:rotfl: There is only one disreputable party to this situation, the management at Lotus F1



#1821 Cool Beans

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:06

I don't think the article is taking the thing as a real possibility. I understand it more as an essay, where Schmidt tries to reason what might happen if Kimi does leave Lotus.

The reasoning is that Lotus needs somebody to bring points because of their fight for 2nd position in WCC, which would mind they would need Hülkenberg, who is also not being really paid and can jump teams if he wishes. That would put Sauber in a silly position where they would need Kimi because they are also fighting in the WCC and there are 6 millions more on the table.

Still want to see it happen. I understand there's some acclimatisation to be done but would be interesting to see how Kimi goes in the Sauber and Hulk in the Lotus. It's rare to see drivers switching cars during a season.


Edited by Cool Beans, 03 November 2013 - 12:09.


#1822 dau

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:17

AMuS reporting a possible switch between Hulk and Kimi for last two races:

http://m.auto-motor-...er-7888452.html

I find it very hard to believe.. More likely Kimi not driving and Hulkenberg gets the seat.

First sentence: "Do not take this story too seriously."

 

There are not even rumours, he's basically just thinking out loud what could happen. There's absolutely nothing to it.



#1823 Wolfie

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:18

surely..but it also proves Kimi don't attract special funds in a team that can change the things....contrary to what some fans always babble...

Correction: Contrary to what Lotus has babbled for two years already...



#1824 Taxi

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:19

It would be funny FIA remove Kimi's superlicence. The 3rd driver in the championship os 2012 and 2013. Now that would be a great message to the fans: " one of the most talented drivers, world champion and in top form, drives for free, gets cheated and humiliated by his team and when stands up for his rights we ban him"

 

That would be a winner decision all right. :p  



#1825 Wolfie

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:26

Robertson: Kimi is the team's biggest team player

- Kimi is also offended over the radio message. He was accused of not being a team player. But when you take into account the whole situation, unpaid salaries and everything else, I think he is the biggest team player in Formula One.

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/2013/11/1827749/manageri-raikkonen-on-f1n-suurin-tiimipeluri


#1826 Wolfie

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:30

True.My English is not that good,it's my third language and im typing with my mobile phone really fast while im working... So i get what you are saying,him being a French, but Gro just said that he haven't learned anything and right after says that he has learned to set up a car and use data. So i think it is not unfair to critize that comment...

Ouch, we can only hope that Kimi doesn't open up about Grosjean - lol



#1827 Oho

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 12:40

Please, dont be naive.

Refusing to race could be considered as bringing the sport into a disrupt, as regulated by FIA code.
Remember Indianapolis 2005?

Raikkonen can date Lotus in courts all he wants, but if he does anything that taps on the sport owners wallet, he will get both ears twisted and will make him squeal.

 

 

Yeah right... Bringing the sport into disrepute by refusing to work without pay. Just how blinded can someone get from hatred toward a total stranger.

 

Well if  Räikkönen is on the level he may very well have the power to put Lotus into receivership.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Receivership

 

That would kind of sort of sort it out for him.


Edited by Oho, 03 November 2013 - 12:44.


#1828 fabr68

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 13:10

Yeah right... Bringing the sport into disrepute by refusing to work without pay. Just how blinded can someone get from hatred toward a total stranger.

Well if Räikkönen is on the level he may very well have the power to put Lotus into receivership.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Receivership

That would kind of sort of sort it out for him.


I was just giving an opinion on what Ecclestone said about Raikkonen knowing the "consequences" of deciding not to race.

I think it only makes sense for Raikkonen not to show up and work when he is not paid. However, this could have some repecursions on race ticket sales and tv ratings. Something Ecclestone may not be too happy about.

If I was Kimi I would do the opposite and score the most points by the end of the season. Who knows, he may be Lotus team owner by then.

#1829 Konsta

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 13:18

HE SAID that he learnt from Kimi but in INDIRECT WAY. It means he didn't come to Kimi with 1l vodka and asked him "How I'm supposed to approach this corner so my tyres won't go badoom". Instead of this, he got Kimi's data from telemtry from whcih he learnt on.

Oh please. He should not have said anything that can be interpreted negatively and especially as his comments contradict those made by his bosses. All that quote did was make RoGro seem like an ingrateful prick.



#1830 Oldie

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 13:19

I was just giving an opinion on what Ecclestone said about Raikkonen knowing the "consequences" of deciding not to race.
I think it only makes sense for Raikkonen not to show up and work when he is not paid. However, this could have some repecursions on race ticket sales and tv ratings. Something Ecclestone may not be too happy about.
If I was Kimi I would do the opposite and score the most points by the end of the season. Who knows, he may be Lotus team owner by then.


Well they had some negotiations before Abu Dhabi, and got in to some agreement. That is why Kimi participated in the first place in Abu Dhabi. It is, again, in the hands of Lopez to do as agreed (what ever that is), and Kimi will drive the rest of the season.
It wouldn't benefit either Kimi or Lotus if he wouldn't race.

#1831 swerved

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 13:31

Brundle on Lotus & Kimi "He's won points won races won podiums and won Lotus millions, pay up and look big" 



#1832 Yoshi

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 13:32

@NobleF1: Breaking news: Kimi Raikkonen now set to see out season for Lotus after reaching preliminary deal over pay dispute http://t.co/KRHZVnG31R

#1833 discover23

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 13:37

First time I've heard New York and Los Angeles, California, USA referred to as a isolated pocket. But hey, we hear something new everyday. I have to wonder how the Kimi fans in my isolated pocket city of 3.86 million are hard and expensive to target.

I would guess that fans living in isolated pockets is not the reason. On the whole, it is Lotus' job to figure out how best to obtain sponsorship in connection with their drivers. But it is important that they have a strong and healthy relationship with the driver or it is all for naught.

The ROI is not based solely on sales, but branding, name recognition, etc. How much press attention your driver gets plays into that, so it isn't just a question of national companies and national sales. Having a big name like Kimi on board in F1 is a definite plus.

We are an isolated pocket.. You don't see much of f1 here in nyc a city of 8 million..
Hardcore fans like me are hard to find... I agree that you can pick random person from street and ask them about kimi and they have no clue who he is.. They may associate formula 1 with ferrari and that is about it.

Edited by discover23, 03 November 2013 - 13:38.


#1834 Oho

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 13:46

I was just giving an opinion on what Ecclestone said about Raikkonen knowing the "consequences" of deciding not to race.

 

 

Well the consequence will or would have been Räikkönen also being in breach which would have loosend the death grip he has of Lotuses proverbial balls right now.


Edited by Oho, 03 November 2013 - 13:56.


#1835 Taxi

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 14:53

I was just giving an opinion on what Ecclestone said about Raikkonen knowing the "consequences" of deciding not to race.

I think it only makes sense for Raikkonen not to show up and work when he is not paid. However, this could have some repecursions on race ticket sales and tv ratings. Something Ecclestone may not be too happy about.

If I was Kimi I would do the opposite and score the most points by the end of the season. Who knows, he may be Lotus team owner by then.

 

How come if kimi as so little Marketing  value that team is thinking he's not worth paying?  ;)



#1836 alfa1

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 15:24

How come if kimi as so little Marketing  value that team is thinking he's not worth paying?  ;)

 

Remember that Kimi isnt the only one not being paid, if the stories are correct. A lot of suppliers apparently are also waiting on payment.

Maybe they feel that the local shop that supplies photocopy paper is a more worthy recipient for urgent cash than a multi millionaire.



#1837 Vesuvius

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:24

Steve Robertson confirmed for TS they have found agreement with Lotus management and Kimi will drive last two races.



#1838 hello86

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:26

Steve Robertson confirmed for TS they have found agreement with Lotus management and Kimi will drive last two races.

 

at least some good news!  :up:



#1839 artista

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:27

I wonder if some little man (I'm talking about size) had something to do with the agreement.



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#1840 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:29

Steve Robertson confirmed for TS they have found agreement with Lotus management and Kimi will drive last two races.

 

Glad to see I got it right this time. It would have been a sad end to the Kimi-Lotus story otherwise. Now, with a little time passing to heal the raw emotions, we all can look back at these two years with a smile and good memories (for the most part).



#1841 kimister

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:30

I wonder if some little man (I'm talking about size) had something to do with the agreement.

 

I read somewhere actually it can be that Ecclestone will pay Kimi's salary, then later Lotus will make clear the debt with him. However, since I thought it wasn't a reliable source, I didn't want to post here, so I am not sure.


Edited by kimister, 03 November 2013 - 16:31.


#1842 muramasa

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:31

Cannot help feeling it's bit pathetic about this ado coz just couple months ago it was revealed that Kobayashi hadnt been paid by Sauber yet. The amount is said to be $2m or so.



#1843 hello86

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:33

Cannot help feeling it's bit pathetic about this ado coz just couple months ago it was revealed that Kobayashi hadnt been paid by Sauber yet. The amount is said to be $2m or so.

 

Dont want to sound arrogant or so but there is a little difference between Koba (who was fighting to stay in F1) and Kimi!



#1844 boldhakka

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:37

This about Kimi and Lotus. The experience of other drivers are irrelevant. There are many people in the world who don't get paid fairly by their employers, or on time. That doesn't mean you and I have to start accepting paycuts or delayed payments of our salaries.

#1845 artista

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:38

I read somewhere actually it can be that Ecclestone will pay Kimi's salary, then later Lotus will make clear the debt with him. However, since I thought it wasn't a reliable source, I didn't want to post here, so I am not sure.

Oh! I haven't read it anywhere, I was just thinking aloud. :blush:

 

I know Bernie has (or had, I was told so almost 2 years ago) some kind of business with López and there were already some gossips of Bernie paying Lotus some money in advance of the WCC one year ago or so.

 

When you're promised something once and again but nothing happens, something different must happen to really believe you will get the money. If I were Räikkönen, I would consider Bernie a good guarantee it would happen.



#1846 Menace

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:42

Now that Kimi has been confirmed to race for the rest of the year, does that mean he is getting paid ASAP? :stoned:



#1847 fatd

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:44

Steve Robertson confirmed for TS they have found agreement with Lotus management and Kimi will drive last two races.

 

Great news  :up:  :up:



#1848 kimister

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:44

However, it seems there can be another story behind it, after all maybe Kimi pushed Lopez to make an agreement with Quantum.  :)

 

 

''  The Quantum deal to take over a percentage of the Lotus F1 has been completed – and the team has secured not only the services of Kimi Raikkonen for the rest of the season, but also the future of the team. Mansoor Ijaz, who leads the consortium says that he wants to sign Nico Hulkenberg. Quantum has an option to take over the team but Ijaz is not dsaying when that would be actioned. ''

 

http://joesaward.wor...l-is-completed/ 



#1849 artista

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:47

However, it seems there can be another story behind it, after all maybe Kimi pushed Lopez to make an agreement with Quantum.  :)

 

 

''  The Quantum deal to take over a percentage of the Lotus F1 has been completed – and the team has secured not only the services of Kimi Raikkonen for the rest of the season, but also the future of the team. Mansoor Ijaz, who leads the consortium says that he wants to sign Nico Hulkenberg. Quantum has an option to take over the team but Ijaz is not dsaying when that would be actioned. ''

 

http://joesaward.wor...l-is-completed/ 

I would love it if that's true :) , I have a soft-spot for private teams and it's hard to see them suffer like that. A bit of fresh money would be nice (if those guys are serious, I hope so)


Edited by artista, 03 November 2013 - 16:47.


#1850 Cyanide

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 16:49

Some good news at least for the end of the day.