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Kimi's relationship with Lotus


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#1851 bourbon

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:01

That is great news, Kimi has to race!  But only if Lotus pays up. :up:

 

I'm over Lotus.



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#1852 pup

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:16

Remember that Kimi isnt the only one not being paid, if the stories are correct. A lot of suppliers apparently are also waiting on payment.

Maybe they feel that the local shop that supplies photocopy paper is a more worthy recipient for urgent cash than a multi millionaire.

I don't blame them.  We know what happens when the photocopy guy doesn't get paid off.



#1853 Hans V

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:30

That the Quantum deal is completed is great news for Lotus, hopefully for Kimi but mostly for Lopez and Genii. I am, however not convinced this really solves the teams financial problems over time, i.e. cash-flow From what I understand most of the Quantum money will go to pay off debts to Genii, suppliers and the star driver. So they will have a much better balance sheet from the finacial year 2014 and ability to loan more money. The basic problem for the team is, however, that they spend a lot more (50 million Euros a year or so) than they have coming in. So unless Quantum brings new sponsor deals the team will continue to blead money - and will be in deep shit again in a couple of years. I'd really like to hear what Quantums plans are.

Edited by Hans V, 03 November 2013 - 17:32.


#1854 boldhakka

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:35

I think Quantum is paying a high enough price for the shares that Genii recoup their original investment plus a healthy profit AND leave some left over for the team to secure its future for the next couple of years or even longer.

#1855 RedOne

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:43

Heh. Im happy he is going to Ferrari ,but just because they have way much more money and resources than Lotus does. Lotus and Kimi were perfect together, but honestly i just don't see Lotus doing too well next year.Like i said,i just don't see him getting a fair shot in Ferrari.Mixed >feelings...


A fair shot in the Ferrari? At least wait until this season starts before starting with the excuses.

#1856 muramasa

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:43

Dont want to sound arrogant or so but there is a little difference between Koba (who was fighting to stay in F1) and Kimi!

So you think it's ok that people in inferior position shud be resigned to accept unfair treatment in payment while people in superior position can afford to be daring? And what position do you reckon you are actually in? "Kimi"'s? "Koba"'s? Because under such philosophy, most likely it's ordinary people like you and me who'll be one of the many people being treated unfairly.

 

This about Kimi and Lotus. The experience of other drivers are irrelevant. There are many people in the world who don't get paid fairly by their employers, or on time. That doesn't mean you and I have to start accepting paycuts or delayed payments of our salaries.

Relevant. That you dont get paid is the same.

This about kimi and lotus? So right. And you think you yourself are in a position of "Kimi", rather than "mechanics" and "engineers" and "suppliers"? Dont wanna sound like philanthropist but If there's anyone who can afford to wait to get paid, it's the driver. Dont get me wrong, I'm not bashing Kimi or anyone. Also, "doesnt mean you and i have to start accepting ~",  for sure. But sadly in reality there's big difference in many things b/w being a star driver and ordinary workers.



#1857 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:46

That the Quantum deal is completed is great news for Lotus, hopefully for Kimi but mostly for Lopez and Genii. I am, however not convinced this really solves the teams financial problems over time, i.e. cash-flow From what I understand most of the Quantum money will go to pay off debts to Genii, suppliers and the star driver. So they will have a much better balance sheet from the finacial year 2014 and ability to loan more money. The basic problem for the team is, however, that they spend a lot more (50 million Euros a year or so) than they have coming in. So unless Quantum brings new sponsor deals the team will continue to blead money - and will be in deep shit again in a couple of years. I'd really like to hear what Quantums plans are.

 

Yips mate, pretty much as I think on the matter.

 

I think Quantum is paying a high enough price for the shares that Genii recoup their original investment plus a healthy profit AND leave some left over for the team to secure its future for the next couple of years or even longer.

 

I highly doubt that Quantum is willing to pay ~€90 million + for 35% share of the company just for Genii -- and then bankroll the coming season(s) as well. Would that be the case, the deal would have been closed ages ago. My humble opinion.



#1858 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:49

Please get back to the topic. 

 

Kimi's relationship with Lotus 



#1859 Torsion

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 17:50

However, it seems there can be another story behind it, after all maybe Kimi pushed Lopez to make an agreement with Quantum:)

 

Given that Lopez has been silent over the latest salary issue, and also given that he has said some positive things about Kimi last week, I wonder whether he with the help of Kimi pushed Quantum to complete the deal. This is just speculation.



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#1860 Wolfie

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 18:09

Steve Robertson confirmed for TS they have found agreement with Lotus management and Kimi will drive last two races.

I read it differently :confused:

 

"Robertson confirmed Autosport's news to Turun Sanomat saying that they have proceeded in a positive direction in the dispute"

 

Still no guarantees of money transactions and that is what they are after now. It looks positive but it's not certain yet.



#1861 kimister

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 18:14

It's time to watch one of Kimi's 20 wins to chill out after such a disappointed weekend  :clap: I missed to see him raising his trophy on the podium after winning  :(  I want that before the end of season with Lotus.



#1862 Shiroo

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 18:54

As AUTOSPORT revealed earlier, Raikkonen has now reached a deal with Lotus to sort out his issues and will now race in the final two grands prix of the 2013 season.

 

Ijaz said he was sorry for allowing the matter to get so out of hand after meeting with Raikkonen's manager Steve Robertson on Saturday night.

"We have apologised to Kimi," he said. "We intend to not only make sure that they are made whole, and then some, but we are intending also to compensate our employees and management team for having taken it on the chin from you guys [the media] in recent weeks."


Edited by Shiroo, 03 November 2013 - 18:54.


#1863 kimister

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 18:55

You are faster than me Shiroo  :p



#1864 swerved

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:01

I read it differently :confused:

 

"Robertson confirmed Autosport's news to Turun Sanomat saying that they have proceeded in a positive direction in the dispute"

 

Still no guarantees of money transactions and that is what they are after now. It looks positive but it's not certain yet.

 

I think you're right to be cautious. 

 

 

"As long as the deal is formally signed off by lawyers, and Lotus sticks to the points of the agreement laid out, then Raikkonen will compete in the final two races of the campaign."

 

 

What i've read so far leads me to believe that Lotus/Lopez has already failed to stick to what had previously been agreed.



#1865 jstrains

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:10

 Bild speculates that Kimi did collide on lap 1 on purpose

http://www.bild.de/s...42404.bild.html



#1866 kimister

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:11

 Bild speculates that Kimi did collide on lap 1 on purpose

http://www.bild.de/s...42404.bild.html

:rolleyes:



#1867 Wolfie

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:18

I think you're right to be cautious. 

 

 

"As long as the deal is formally signed off by lawyers, and Lotus sticks to the points of the agreement laid out, then Raikkonen will compete in the final two races of the campaign."

 

 

What i've read so far leads me to believe that Lotus/Lopez has already failed to stick to what had previously been agreed.

Swerwed, this Mansoor Iijaz has been portrayed as a fraud and a shady businessman, hence the whole Quantum-deal sounds very suspicious :rolleyes:

 

The code in F1 (and business also) is that you never blabber about ongoing negotiations, so it takes real facts at this point for me to believe what they say.

 

So far they have promised and promised and promised without anything happening. I am doubtful now also.

 

However if it's true that Bernie Ecclestone will pay the unpaid salaries, then it will be interesting to see just how fast Lotus pays back to Ecclestone :p



#1868 Wolfie

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:21

 Bild speculates that Kimi did collide on lap 1 on purpose

http://www.bild.de/s...42404.bild.html

I thought the same as Bild. Maybe Kimi just wanted to get the f*cking way out of Romain, lol.

 

And if Romain is the team leader then it's about time he starts to chip in and prove it by dragging Lotus alone to points.



#1869 quidam

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:21

 Bild speculates that Kimi did collide on lap 1 on purpose

http://www.bild.de/s...42404.bild.html

 

You better watch the video  :smoking:



#1870 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:33

I don't blame them.  We know what happens when the photocopy guy doesn't get paid off.


Or look at in it another way, millionaire Kimi won't be going very fast when the guys who design, build and prepare his car have to leave the team to find a job that pays their mortgage.

Not saying what the team are doing to Kimi is right just that maybe a bit of bigger picture thinking is required if the team is in as dire financial straits as it would appear.

#1871 swerved

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:35

Swerwed, this Mansoor Iijaz has been portrayed as a fraud and a shady businessman, hence the whole Quantum-deal sounds very suspicious :rolleyes:

 

The code in F1 (and business also) is that you never blabber about ongoing negotiations, so it takes real facts at this point for me to believe what they say.

 

So far they have promised and promised and promised without anything happening. I am doubtful now also.

 

However if it's true that Bernie Ecclestone will pay the unpaid salaries, then it will be interesting to see just how fast Lotus pays back to Ecclestone :p

:up: 

 

 

This is what i said back in July.

 

"The problems with finances are my greatest concern as well, I can't help but feel that the Infinity deal may not be as certain as some would have us believe, and to be honest, even if the deal is signed i still have a feeling things wont be as straightforward and simple as they might be."

 

It should be interesting to see how thing pan out.



#1872 Wolfie

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:45

:up:

 

 

This is what i said back in July.

 

"The problems with finances are my greatest concern as well, I can't help but feel that the Infinity deal may not be as certain as some would have us believe, and to be honest, even if the deal is signed i still have a feeling things wont be as straightforward and simple as they might be."

 

It should be interesting to see how thing pan out.

Cool, that only confirms my suspicions :up:

 

As for the topic, here is what Kulta wrote :lol:

 

 

After the one-lap race Räikkönen quickly visited the team premises to pick up his things and go to the toilet, after which he marched to his own leased car and headed for the airport.

All is well in Kimi's relationship with Lotus :lol:



#1873 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 19:48

Quote or something?


http://m.us.wsj.com/...les/BL-DSB-8589

Romain Grosjean paid Lotus an estimated $5 million to drive for the team this season through his sponsorship with French oil major Total. “Total is delighted to give the young talented French driver… the opportunity to fulfil his dream,” a company statement said when the Lotus deal was announced.

#1874 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 20:08

Cool, that only confirms my suspicions :up:
 

All is well in Kimi's relationship with Lotus :lol:


Kimi's been doing that a since his McLaren DNF days.

#1875 x600

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 20:17

 Bild speculates that Kimi did collide on lap 1 on purpose

http://www.bild.de/s...42404.bild.html

 

 

It was clearly on purpose. :down:



#1876 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 20:29

He lost the back end.... Hard to believe it was deliberate

#1877 nosecone

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 20:29

If it was on purpose he's a hero! To get the car oversteering in the right moment to crash into VDG.... heroic.

 

The speculation was made by BILD*. Says it all

 

 

*worst tabloid in Germany


Edited by nosecone, 03 November 2013 - 20:34.


#1878 Paco

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 21:05

Vettel said Hulk have not been paid by Sauber since May... And at the moment, he is not in the grid for next year.

Seriously, something is wrong in F1 right now, Chilton, Van Der Garde, Gutierrez have all a place on the grid and fast driver a real driver like Hulk isn't. It's a big shame.

http://www.nextgen-a...ttel,68874.html

That's always been the case with drivers from carting to f1. It's the drivers that find their own sponsor that move up the grid unless a works team takes notice and signs them early. It's always been a shame in F1 that pay drivers get rides when there are more talented ones being looked ovrr cause they don't pay to get their ride. Problem in f1 now is simply drivers salaries have gotten stupid in comparison to team budgets.... Drivers are not to blame. It's the stupid team principles who caused all this and continue to propagate the issue. How can f1 driver get paid more then anyone else in their company or sponsoring company.... Completely insane.

Edited by Paco, 03 November 2013 - 21:07.


#1879 fabr68

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 21:07

 Bild speculates that Kimi did collide on lap 1 on purpose

http://www.bild.de/s...42404.bild.html

 

That does not make any sense.  Why would Raikkonen give up points (contractual money) and lose ground on the battle for 2nd in the WDC



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#1880 intelligentsia

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 21:12

Or look at in it another way, millionaire Kimi won't be going very fast when the guys who design, build and prepare his car have to leave the team to find a job that pays their mortgage.

Not saying what the team are doing to Kimi is right just that maybe a bit of bigger picture thinking is required if the team is in as dire financial straits as it would appear.

 

Of course the working people at the factory are the ones who will suffer the most. I would feel sorry for them. But they really aren't Kimi's responsibility. It is Lotus who should really be ashamed of themselves if their people cant pay their mortgages. Earlier in the season, for example, Lotus where spending a lot of money on marketing and making expensive videos. Therefore the situation isn't so black and white, ultimately it is Lotus's responsibility to make sure that their employees are paid.  Lotus hired Kimi out of their own free will, last year they renegotiated the contract because they struggled to pay Kimi's salary. And this year again they have the same issues, even when Kimi was already accommodating. Kimi has been useful to the the team and he has done what has been expected from him. Lotus took on the commitment so it is only fair that they should honor it. 

If you get a few credit cards and max them out then you would have to pay them, even tough the bank or institution would not go under if you dont pay, and even though the institution may already have more then enough money. The point is that if you sign up for something, and you get the services, then you should pay for the services. If you sign up for something without the intention of actually paying, or without the intention of honoring the contract, then you are being deceitful.     

 

Lotus didn't approach this whole situation very well, they made public statements that Kimi has been paid so they just lied openly. And if they couldn't pay the full amount, why didn't they ateast make an arrangement and pay a part of the salary, instead of just paying nothing at all and lying to the press. Why did they let things escalate to the point where it is now? Surely that wasn't necessary. Money is of course an issue, but it is their handling of the situation that had the biggest impact on Kimi.

 

Compare Lotus to Sauber, they have been very upfront and straight forward about their situation and where Hulkenberg stands.  

 

Anyways I am glad to hear that it seems like the situation might have been resolved now. Hopefully Kimi can complete the rest of the season without all of this drama. 


Edited by intelligentsia, 03 November 2013 - 21:18.


#1881 Taxi

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 22:27

So Kimi might work for free co's he's a millionaire?

 

Playing the "the poor first" card is popular but hypocrite.

 

I'll found a football team, offer Xavi 20 millions a year, get all the PR attention, the points he will bring,  and in the end tell him I'll pay the others first co's he's already rich. 


Edited by Taxi, 03 November 2013 - 22:27.


#1882 Cyanide

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 22:27

 Bild speculates that Kimi did collide on lap 1 on purpose

http://www.bild.de/s...42404.bild.html

 

There are only two problems with that perspective:

 

1. Kimi made it clear he came to Abu Dhabi to race, despite no salary. If he wanted not to participate, trust me he would have stayed at home. His attitude before the race was positive and actually upbeat. 

2. It's Bild - which means they're talking out of their asses and they have very small credibility in F1, if any. They're also a tabloid. 'Nuff said. 



#1883 wrcva

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 22:47

 

As AUTOSPORT revealed earlier, Raikkonen has now reached a deal with Lotus to sort out his issues and will now race in the final two grands prix of the 2013 season.

 

Ijaz said he was sorry for allowing the matter to get so out of hand after meeting with Raikkonen's manager Steve Robertson on Saturday night.

"We have apologised to Kimi," he said. "We intend to not only make sure that they are made whole, and then some, but we are intending also to compensate our employees and management team for having taken it on the chin from you guys [the media] in recent weeks."

 

 

I don't get it... Why is he the one talking to Steve, announcing Hulk so on?   What is his capacity other than being a prospective investor pumping a lot of hot air...  this whole thing is getting weirder.   I would not be surprised if this is just a ploy to get Kimi to finish the season w/o pay, and then let the thing drag in courts... 


Edited by wrcva, 03 November 2013 - 22:56.


#1884 Watkins74

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 23:03

First he says that he has learned nothing, and then in other sentence he says
how he has learned to set up a car and use data. So he has learned the most important things of racing how to set up a race car.You get it now?

 

No you don't understand. Grosjean said he didn't talk to Kimi directly so he learned nothing directly from Kimi himself. What he learned was going over data. It's really not that hard to figure out..



#1885 redreni

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 23:15

Bild speculates that Kimi did collide on lap 1 on purpose
http://www.bild.de/s...42404.bild.html


That‘s ridiculous of course, but no more so than the people who said that Lotus had been sabottaging Kimi‘s races.

Incidentally, I didn‘t see any interviews with Kimi on RTL, I didn‘t hear anything rom him on radio 5, and I don‘t think BBC TV had an interview with him on their highlights show either. He left the circuit with unseemly haste. Presumably the FIA will check to see if he fulfilled the obligatory media commitments, and take the appropriate action if he didn‘t.

#1886 JeePee

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 23:17

Incidentally, I didn‘t see any interviews with Kimi on RTL, I didn‘t hear anything rom him on radio 5, and I don‘t think BBC TV had an interview with him on their highlights show either. He left the circuit with unseemly haste. Presumably the FIA will check to see if he fulfilled the obligatory media commitments, and take the appropriate action if he didn‘t.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=a83Azk24BjY



#1887 Taxi

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 23:26

Please get back to the topic. 

 

Kimi's relationship with Lotus 

 

Lotus: Kimi we need to talk.

Kimi: Erm what now? Leave me alone

L: You've been different lately

K: I'm equal. Everything's ok.

L: I know everything! You have an affair with that Italian h*re  "Lola" Ferrari. Tell me is just physical or is it love? You never forgot her!

K: I don't know it's the red dress she wears all the time.

L: Not to mention about you'r numerous affairs with the Austrian model, the old lady williams,  and i konw Macca never really got over you. 

K: Ok. That's it, I'm leaving. You know what? They all gave me much more than you. 

L: Yes go! I don't need you anymore. Just stay for a little while. 



#1888 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 23:31

That‘s ridiculous of course, but no more so than the people who said that Lotus had been sabottaging Kimi‘s races.

Incidentally, I didn‘t see any interviews with Kimi on RTL, I didn‘t hear anything rom him on radio 5, and I don‘t think BBC TV had an interview with him on their highlights show either. He left the circuit with unseemly haste. Presumably the FIA will check to see if he fulfilled the obligatory media commitments, and take the appropriate action if he didn‘t.

 

Heh -- one more thing, if you would be a Lotus rep., that would annoy you, right mate?

 

Do not worry, though, he will do just fine at Ferrari, unless it pertains to him speaking Italian. God forbid he even tries, as that is just deadly for the ears.



#1889 halbvoll

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 23:35

According to www.spiegel.de, Ecclestone is willing to redirect Lotus' TV-rights money directly to Räikkönen. 


Edited by halbvoll, 04 November 2013 - 01:25.


#1890 santababy

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:42

According to www.spiegel.de, Ecclestone is willing to redirect Lotus' TV-rights money directly to Räikkönen.


Huh? Bernie is getting involved with this?

#1891 Cool Beans

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:13

Incidentally, I didn‘t see any interviews with Kimi on RTL, I didn‘t hear anything rom him on radio 5, and I don‘t think BBC TV had an interview with him on their highlights show either. He left the circuit with unseemly haste. Presumably the FIA will check to see if he fulfilled the obligatory media commitments, and take the appropriate action if he didn‘t.

Did you check with the FIA yet? Sounds like a mouth watering scenario, maybe you could point it out to them in case they didn't notice? I mean, not that you care about Kimi, pfft, but maybe just absent mindedly bombard them with emails about it? Just in case?


Edited by Cool Beans, 04 November 2013 - 02:28.


#1892 grunge

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:30

a lot of unnecessary criticism on Grogro for his comments..read the whole excerpt,he doesnt mean any harm..English is not his forst language...hes actually one of the least fluent at it from the current grid..he praises Kimi and then says he doesnt talk much at all and that he didnt learn anything from him..the missed "directly" is obviously implied here..as he further goes on to clarify his point by saying inspite of this he learnt all that much from just watching him work..he consciously made an an effort to avoid his comments being taken as an attack.
Cut him some slack..hes a genuinely nice guy IMO.plenty of raw pace and his race craft seems to have improved immensely lately..hope he can stay with Hulk next year if that does happen.hes going to have his hands full.

#1893 jedioriginal

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 05:14

No you don't understand. Grosjean said he didn't talk to Kimi directly so he learned nothing directly from Kimi himself. What he learned was going over data. It's really not that hard to figure out..

Yes i understand that is what he PROBABLY meant. But the fact is you don't KNOW, is that really what he meant. You guys are just quessing and putting words to his answer that weren't there:)

Edited by jedioriginal, 04 November 2013 - 05:15.


#1894 SpaMaster

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 05:52

Cool, that only confirms my suspicions :up:

 

As for the topic, here is what Kulta wrote :lol:

 

All is well in Kimi's relationship with Lotus :lol:

"His own leased car"? Man, this is sad..



#1895 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:00

According to www.spiegel.de, Ecclestone is willing to redirect Lotus' TV-rights money directly to Räikkönen. 

I would like to see him get past the contracts that are in place between Lotus and FOM



#1896 Shiroo

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:03

I would like to see him get past the contracts that are in place between Lotus and FOM

 

I thought exactly the same. I mean, Lotus broke the contract by not paying Raikkonen, but breaking next contract between Lotus and FOM would be odd move.



#1897 SpaMaster

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:22

Ecclestone may be wiling to do that. But Raikkonen may not have any interest in that. As I said earlier, Raikkonen's problem is not money per se. If they had been straightforward and said the situation is difficult, I don't think Raikkonen would have reacted like this. What we can see from his statements is that he was being told one thing after another and was being evaded. Raikkonen would have found this dishonest and deceiving. That is probably what has peeved him off.



#1898 Shiroo

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:41

Ecclestone may be wiling to do that. But Raikkonen may not have any interest in that. As I said earlier, Raikkonen's problem is not money per se. If they had been straightforward and said the situation is difficult, I don't think Raikkonen would have reacted like this. What we can see from his statements is that he was being told one thing after another and was being evaded. Raikkonen would have found this dishonest and deceiving. That is probably what has peeved him off.

 

well maybe they told him that the situation is shitty. But he lost his patience. I would understand it in 100%. I mean, someone can bear up with not being paid for month, two. But not for god damn almost year.



#1899 brr

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:41

I would like to see him get past the contracts that are in place between Lotus and FOM

 

Naturally it requires agreement from Lotus, but its going to be somewhat difficult for them to explain why they would oppose the idea. Only reason to do so is that they are not going to pay Kimi even after receiving the WCC prize money.



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#1900 emil

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:56

That‘s ridiculous of course, but no more so than the people who said that Lotus had been sabottaging Kimi‘s races.

Incidentally, I didn‘t see any interviews with Kimi on RTL, I didn‘t hear anything rom him on radio 5, and I don‘t think BBC TV had an interview with him on their highlights show either. He left the circuit with unseemly haste. Presumably the FIA will check to see if he fulfilled the obligatory media commitments, and take the appropriate action if he didn‘t.

 

Man, you really are something. Don't know if I should be angry or laugh at your post.