45 replies to this topic

[Forma1]

I have been admiring Marc for many-many years, but in my view he is just braking the limits by creating dangeour to his rivals. There could be mentioned lot of moves during the year, he nearly crashed into Dani at Barca, he let Dani's traction cable break and in this very race he came back onto the track knowing that Jorge was coming (he looked back) and he tried to block him. Many riders complain about him and I think he would need to get a one-race ban to teach him there are limits and safety comes as first. Maybe I am just too sensible now that we have lost Sean and Maria recently.

[Jackmancer]

MM looked back while in pit exit but Lorenzo/Pedrosa weren't really visible for him. 1 second later they touch, but the mistake was in drivers not being able to allowed to gain speed in pitlane exit.

[Al.]

I haven't seen today's race yet so I can't comment on the pit lane exit incident.

 

What I would say is that I hate hypocrisy. I've listened to Pedrosa and Lorenzo continually bitch about the risks and the aggressiveness Marquez rides with.

What I see is a rider that has made mistakes and out-braked himself a few times, made light contact here and there as he's tried to stop the bike without falling, but he hasn't wiped anyone out this year. Argon was very unlucky. He again out-braked himself, avoided running into the back of Dani, and if he hadn't broken the sensor wire on Dani's bike we wouldn't be here.

 

Dani, go back and look at your first year (2006) in the top class, in particular go and look at Estoril.

 

Jorge you spoke out over Marc's incident with Dani in Argon and other moves this year, then you go and bang bikes passing him in Sepang.

Make up your mind, either practice what you preach, or race like you did at Sepang and keep you mouth shut. I'd prefer the latter please.

 

I leave you with Rossi's comments immediately after Jerez 2005 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=B4-AZuikiqo

".....from there we started the last battle and we touched two or three times, and at the end I overtake him at the last corner.

For sure it was a hard overtake and for sure Sete is angry, but you know this is the races. Thank you very much."

[santori]

Not commenting on this race, but

 

What I would say is that I hate hypocrisy. I've listened to Pedrosa and Lorenzo continually bitch about the risks and the aggressiveness Marquez rides with.

What I see is a rider that has made mistakes and out-braked himself a few times, made light contact here and there as he's tried to stop the bike without falling, but he hasn't wiped anyone out this year. Argon was very unlucky. He again out-braked himself, avoided running into the back of Dani, and if he hadn't broken the sensor wire on Dani's bike we wouldn't be here.

 

Dani, go back and look at your first year (2006) in the top class, in particular go and look at Estoril.

 

Jorge you spoke out over Marc's incident with Dani in Argon and other moves this year, then you go and bang bikes passing him in Sepang.

Make up your mind, either practice what you preach, or race like you did at Sepang and keep you mouth shut. I'd prefer the latter please.

 

 

 

I don't see hypocrisy there. They've made mistakes in the past and have tried to improve (and have improved). That doesn't mean they always get it right, but then one contact isn't like another either, so incidents can't be equated.

 

Not that their criticisms are necessarily always justified, but then neither are Rossi's  (for example, perhaps, his criticisms of Bautista's riding in Catalunya).

Edited by santori, 20 October 2013 - 08:30.

[RosannaG]

I have been admiring Marc for many-many years, but in my view he is just braking the limits by creating dangeour to his rivals. There could be mentioned lot of moves during the year, he nearly crashed into Dani at Barca, he let Dani's traction cable break and in this very race he came back onto the track knowing that Jorge was coming (he looked back) and he tried to block him. Many riders complain about him and I think he would need to get a one-race ban to teach him there are limits and safety comes as first. Maybe I am just too sensible now that we have lost Sean and Maria recently.

 

Many riders? I miss something here because as far as I remember (correct me if I'm wrong) Lorenzo and Pedrosa were the only ones who have being whining. 

 

Only one race? No way, he should be banned for the next five races, at least. 

[Forma1]

Many riders? I miss something here because as far as I remember (correct me if I'm wrong) Lorenzo and Pedrosa were the only ones who have being whining. 

 

Only one race? No way, he should be banned for the next five races, at least. 

Vale wasn'T happy with Marc either. SInce Vale, Jorge and Dani have the first hand experience, I think that's fair enough.

 

Interesting that so many people have a different opinion to me or the riders mentioned above.

[RosannaG]

Vale wasn'T happy with Marc either. SInce Vale, Jorge and Dani have the first hand experience, I think that's fair enough.

 

Interesting that so many people have a different opinion to me or the riders mentioned above.

 

I did not remember about Vale. 

 

I would not consider two riders as many. But adding Vale, then we could say that yeah, many drivers complained about him. 

Edited by RosannaG, 20 October 2013 - 09:08.

[Kelateboy]

He could be the next Sebastian Vettel. Ban him now....

[JHSingo]

Deja vu. Haven't we been here before?

 

Two words. Marco Simoncelli.

 

I remember that guy had to put up with all sorts of crap in 2011, then when he was killed, everyone was suddenly saying he could have been the next best thing. Funny, that.

[MikeTekRacing]

he's just a racers in pussy world.

he was pushed out of the way by Lorenzo in an overtake the previous race but I can't remember him bitching. having it the other way we would have seen a lot of cries.

[Juggles]

He could be the next Sebastian Vettel. Ban him now....

 

He seems more like Lewis Hamilton in his approach to racing, his pre-MotoGP pedigree, the excitement he's generated in the sport and the explosive way he's arrived on the scene. Some of Hamilton's rivals thought he was too aggressive in his first couple of years but I think most of that was hating being beaten by a kid. I suspect the Marquez whining is the same, particularly when you see the sources of the comments (Pedrosa and Lorenzo).

 

I'm certainly getting deja vu from when Hamilton single-handedly sparked my interest in F1 back in 2007. Maybe Marquez will be the one to get me interested in a whole new branch of motorsport. Either way he's great for MotoGP.

 

On a sidenote, I've also been cheering on Maverick Vinales in the last few Moto3 races purely because it's the best racing name I've ever heard.

[dau]

[...]

 

On a sidenote, I've also been cheering on Maverick Vinales in the last few Moto3 races purely because it's the best racing name I've ever heard.

People don't like him because he's dangerous.

[Gilles4Ever]

On a sidenote, I've also been cheering on Maverick Vinales in the last few Moto3 races purely because it's the best racing name I've ever heard.

You would have loved him last year then when he was sponsored by Paris Hilton. 

 

As Dau says, another with a "reputation". 

[RosannaG]

You would have loved him last year then when he was sponsored by Paris Hilton. 

 

As Dau says, another with a "reputation". 

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=H2r8qCvkwuU

 

[dau]

That was more of me quoting Top Gun than a reference to his reputation though.

[Andrew Hope]

Deja vu. Haven't we been here before?

 

Two words. Marco Simoncelli.

 

I remember that guy had to put up with all sorts of crap in 2011, then when he was killed, everyone was suddenly saying he could have been the next best thing. Funny, that.

If you drive fast enough into a wall, you can be the greatest lost talent ever.

[BillyWhizz]

If you drive fast enough into a wall, you can be the greatest lost talent ever.

 

 

Sorry; either I fail to see the funny side of your comment, or there wasn't one and it was just plain sick and stupid.

[Risil]

I don't understand the timing of this thread. No riders seemed upset with Marquez's riding this weekend.

 

You could probably make the argument about Bridgestone and MotoGP's rulemakers, though...

Edited by Risil, 20 October 2013 - 17:35.

[bourbon]

He seems more like Lewis Hamilton in his approach to racing, his pre-MotoGP pedigree, the excitement he's generated in the sport and the explosive way he's arrived on the scene. Some of Hamilton's rivals thought he was too aggressive in his first couple of years but I think most of that was hating being beaten by a kid. I suspect the Marquez whining is the same, particularly when you see the sources of the comments (Pedrosa and Lorenzo).

 

I'm certainly getting deja vu from when Hamilton single-handedly sparked my interest in F1 back in 2007. Maybe Marquez will be the one to get me interested in a whole new branch of motorsport. Either way he's great for MotoGP.

 

On a sidenote, I've also been cheering on Maverick Vinales in the last few Moto3 races purely because it's the best racing name I've ever heard.

 

The majority of the complaints about Lewis were legitimate - as are the majority of the complaints about Marquez.  Hamilton chilled out, and Marquez will have to do the same.  While exciting in a reality tv kinda way, the added aspect of real danger to ones self and others makes it necessary in motorsport to calm tf down to an acceptable level.

[Andrew Hope]

Sorry; either I fail to see the funny side of your comment, or there wasn't one and it was just plain sick and stupid.

There is no funny side. It's just an observation of how whenever someone passes in the real world people talk about them as if they were the greatest human being the world has ever known, and how this translates into the racing world. JHSingo is spot on. It's like if Maldonado died this weekend no one would mention his antics ever again.

[pRy]

... in this very race he came back onto the track knowing that Jorge was coming (he looked back) and he tried to block him.

 

He didn't block him, Lorenzo ran into him. In the BBC post race interview Jorge was already stating he out braked himself into that corner and that's why he hit Marquez. If anyone was in the wrong in that move it was Lorenzo.

[OvDrone]

Yes and no. No and yes. The young'un has what it takes but his antics in Moto2 spring into my mind whenever somebody mentions him.

[Risil]

There is no funny side. It's just an observation of how whenever someone passes in the real world people talk about them as if they were the greatest human being the world has ever known, and how this translates into the racing world. JHSingo is spot on. It's like if Maldonado died this weekend no one would mention his antics ever again.

 

Thing is that Simoncelli had just given his best performance to date the previous weekend. It's as if Senna had died just after winning at Estoril in 1985.

[Andrew Hope]

Well, if nothing else, I know I love the word "antics".

[Tenmantaylor]

My take on the (irrelevant) Marquez pit exit clash: The pit lane speed limit being so far along the pit exit made this situaution more likely as it made it impossible for the exiting rider to get up to speed before resuming the racing line.

[jrg19]

Was the seagull named Marc too?

[OvDrone]

The seagull, last year's lazy pigeon from WTCC Monza and this:

 

Edited by OvDrone, 20 October 2013 - 20:25.

[Coral]

Thing is that Simoncelli had just given his best performance to date the previous weekend. It's as if Senna had died just after winning at Estoril in 1985.

Yes...Marco Simoncelli's performance at Phillip Island was fantastic and he looked as if he was really going places...and then the following week he was killed at Sepang. So  unfair. It happened two years ago to the day and personally speaking it has been a difficult thing to get over...I had a soft spot for Marco ever since 2008...

 

I think that is one of the reasons I like Marc Marquez so much...with his happy, smiley demeanour, he reminds me of Marco. Plus he is just so exciting to watch! The other riders are just complaining becaue they are envious of his success and popularity. They don't like being shown up by a rookie. In my opinion Marc Marquez is a breath of fresh air for MotoGP.

Edited by Coral, 20 October 2013 - 21:01.

[Tenmantaylor]

He truly is a wunderkind but he has a real air of Vettel about him. Insanely talented, smiley outgoing demeanor but a ruthless competitor. He takes no prisoners on the track that's for sure and pushes all limits. Was interesting to hear Stoner think that he expected crashes from MM. I don't follow MotoGP as close as F1 so was amazed to see him come in and be the class of the field so young unlike those who've watched him rise through the ranks. When I mentioned to my brother, a keen biker, that this kid looked the shizzle he brushed it of, "he'll crash all year, too on edge". And here we are, even with a black flag still on the verge of the title.

[Jimisgod]

If you drive fast enough into a wall, you can be the greatest lost talent ever.

You're the only one here who thinks you're clever.

[Andrew Hope]

I don't think I'm clever. I think I'm good at representing whichever side of the coin no one else wants to be seen arguing for, and if that means looking like a ******** every couple of days, so be it.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 21 October 2013 - 03:40.

[Juggles]

You're the only one here who thinks you're clever.

 

On the contrary, I think it was a point well made.

[Hoofhearted]

Marquez has talent by the bucketful.  No denying that.  He pushes the limits.  He crashes a lot.  So far he has managed to get away with all the "errors".  At some stage his luck wiil run out and he'll be hurt.  Luck has a terrible habit of doing that.  When that happens we may see a different Marquez.  I sincerely hope I'm wrong.  

[Paul Parker]

I still recall Marquez taking out Luthi a couple of years go in Moto 2.

 

He is too aggressive in my opinion as is obvious but he was not responsible for the collision with Lorenzo at Philip Island.

 

As noted by Tenmantaylor this was entirely the fault of somebody who apparently thought it would be a good idea to extend the pitlane speed limit right up to the point where the riders were rejoining the track. Utterly stupid.

 

There have been various posts on here over the years criticising the governance of Australian motor sport and associated bureaucracy and this was surely a perfect example.

[spacekid]

If memory serves, Lorenzo bumped Marquez out of the way in Malaysia. It was technically Marks fault that Pedrosa crashed at Aragon, but come on, it was the lightest of brushes the type that isn't uncommon up and down the field in MotoGP. It was very unfortunate that the sensor on Dani's bike broke as a result.

 

If this thread is a knee jerk reaction to Mark and Jorge's coming together at the end of the Philip Island pit, I'm sorry but thats rather pathetic.

 

Is Mark young and fesity? Yes. Is he doing anything I haven't seen young (or older) riders do before? No. Is it reasonable to ask if he deserves a race ban? Not in my opinion, no.

[wrighty]

In all honesty i havent seen Marques do anything this year that we hadn't already seen from Rossi or Lorenzo - i can't remember Stoner being particularly physical with the bike, nor Dani, but the two mentioned have thrown the bike at enough people in years past to really not be in a position to say much about Marc handing their bottoms to them on a plate as he has this year

.....and yes Simoncelli got a world of grief for his behaviour (Le Mans with Dani P springs to mind) but he was coming to his potential....Marc is already there and he (health permitting) is gonna be there for a while!

Oh and finally, to the OP, are you actually saying that he took out Pedrosa's TC cable on purpose? Really?

[undersquare]

Riders don't deliberately crash into each other, the overaggressive ones accept more RISK of touching other riders.  That's what Marquez does routinely, and I'd say he did that in Philip Island with the line he took, and when he braked late and slid wildly past Pedrosa so close he caught his TC cable.  That's what Simoncelli did too.  If Simoncelli had had a race ban early on in his career, perhaps he'd have calmed down in time to stay alive.  Lorenzo had a race ban, and it did appear to help him steady down, as he says himself,

[Risil]

The only risky moves I've seen from Marquez this year have been when he outbrakes himself and nearly runs into the rider in front. Which to be honest you see every weekend in WSBK.

 

I know he set up a world of expectations of dangerous riding after his Moto2 antics (thanks NoHope) but he's doing his best not to fulfil them.

 

Jerez was pure Rossi and the collision with Pedrosa was a freak event, or at least the product of incautious engineering.

Edited by Risil, 21 October 2013 - 20:22.

[RosannaG]

Riders don't deliberately crash into each other, the overaggressive ones accept more RISK of touching other riders.  That's what Marquez does routinely, and I'd say he did that in Philip Island with the line he took, and when he braked late and slid wildly past Pedrosa so close he caught his TC cable.  That's what Simoncelli did too.  If Simoncelli had had a race ban early on in his career, perhaps he'd have calmed down in time to stay alive.  Lorenzo had a race ban, and it did appear to help him steady down, as he says himself,

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you implying that Marco was the one to blame for his death?   

[pingu666]

tbh I love watching mm ride, only thing that interesfts me in motogp tbh

[undersquare]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you implying that Marco was the one to blame for his death?   

Blame?  He made a mistake.

[RosannaG]

Blame?  He made a mistake.

 

OK... I understand... 

[undersquare]

OK... I understand... 

Well I don't understand your issue at all.  What do you think happened?  He went down, tried to stay up and veered across the track into the path of two other bikes.  

 

Pushing too hard on Lap2.  Riding aggressively, taking a risk.  What else? 

[RosannaG]

Well I don't understand your issue at all.  What do you think happened?  He went down, tried to stay up and veered across the track into the path of two other bikes.  

 

Pushing too hard on Lap2.  Riding aggressively, taking a risk.  What else? 

 

Nothing else. 

[teejay]

He is a rookie gunning for the world title - and literally all of those guys drove balls out when younger... even still do.

[Boxerevo]

From all the drivers cited above in this topic,only MM still in my opinion to be judge a Genius or not.

 

The others all aliens,in F1 or Motogp.

 

Hamilton impressed so much not only because he was fighting Alonso but that 2007 Mclaren still the best car he ever had.

 

Later i could see that he is alien,not a Genius.

 

I still don't know about MM because those Honda Rocketships he drove and i remember very well how some people thinked Pedrosa was much better than Stoner Pre-GP.

 

But for now,his limit is very high... the way he drives and his little few errors are a absurd...must have a superior limit than the average aliens from any motorsport.

 

I will wait till the end of Rocketships to judge.

Edited by Boxerevo, 22 October 2013 - 06:13.