52 replies to this topic

[ebc]

When Daniil Kvyat was announced at Toro Rosso I read alot of comments from people on this board and others that F1 does not have the best drivers in the world anymore.  I watch alot of motorsport and don't think any other category comes close in terms of driver talent.

 

So I was just wondering who you guys think would make it into a list of the best drivers in the world across all categories of racing.  I didn't include WRC as I don't watch it much anymore so feel free to include them if you want.

 

I decided on a list of 20 so in no particular order I would have from F1 - Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Webber, Rosberg, Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Ricciardo, Perez

 

Nascar - Johnson, Stewart, Busch, Kenseth

 

Indycar - Power, Dixon, Franchitti

 

V8 - Whincup

 

DTM - Rockenfeller

 

 

[X61]

When Daniil Kvyat was announced at Toro Rosso I read alot of comments from people on this board and others that F1 does not have the best drivers in the world anymore.  I watch alot of motorsport and don't think any other category comes close in terms of driver talent.

 

So I was just wondering who you guys think would make it into a list of the best drivers in the world across all categories of racing.  I didn't include WRC as I don't watch it much anymore so feel free to include them if you want.

 

I decided on a list of 20 so in no particular order I would have from F1 - Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Webber, Rosberg, Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Ricciardo, Perez

 

Nascar - Johnson, Stewart, Busch, Kenseth

 

Indycar - Power, Dixon, Franchitti

 

V8 - Whincup

 

DTM - Rockenfeller

Which one?  Or both?

 

I agree F1 doesn't have all off the best drivers.  If a checkbook is a prerequisite for a good number of drives it's hard to pretend that only the most talented guys get rides.

[HoldenRT]

I'd be happy with that list, but obviously the current F1 drivers would have an advantage.  The same way if those same F1 drivers went to Nascar, the current Nascar drivers would have an advantage.  Once they all adjusted to whatever the car was.. it'd be interesting to watch, but unfortunately will never happen.  The fans care about these things but in reality it's more business orientated and none of them actually want it to be a level playing field.  It'd definately be fun to watch though.  The forum arguements afterwards............

[JHSingo]

It's a pity WRC has had loads of problems recently, because I personally believe rally drivers are probably the best in the world. It is hard to make a comparison between different forms of racing, but when you consider the great number of surfaces/conditions rally drivers race on or in, plus the fact that unlike a traditional track, you can't memorise the corners...yeah. Just look at how much Kimi Raikkonen struggled in rallying.

 

There have been many great drivers over the years in rallying I wouldn't hesitate as claiming as one of the best of all time. But for me, Sebastien Loeb is the best driver in the world right now. It's not just the 9 WRC titles he has won, but how diverse he has been. He has made a smooth transition to circuit racing and is improving all the time, he's smashed the Pikes Peak record, he's raced at Le Mans and finished on the podium, won a gold medal in the X Games RallyCross. Just a pity he never got a super license - would've loved to see him race in F1.

 

I think for Formula One drivers to be claimed as "the best in the world" they have to show that diversity. In the old days, Jim Clark or whoever would be racing in F1, F2, touring cars, sports cars, racing at Indianapolis, and he was always competitive/winning. I'd just love to see that these days. It is just unfortunate that we have so many F1 races and teams are scared of their drivers getting hurt in another form of racing that we don't get to see it. But for me, that is why I'd never claim that all 22 F1 drivers are the best in the world, because why on earth would you put someone like Max Chilton above Sebastien Loeb, or Tom Kristensen? Anyone with any sense just wouldn't.

[Raven8]

best driver(s)?  : whoever you support

[Kalmake]

You are overrating Indycar and DTM. Almost everyone in those series would rather be driving F1. I don't know all the names, but Power and Franchitti got as far as a F1 test but failed to impress.

 

WRC and NASCAR are different enough that it becomes apples and oranges.

[EthanM]

When Daniil Kvyat was announced at Toro Rosso I read alot of comments from people on this board and others that F1 does not have the best drivers in the world anymore.  I watch alot of motorsport and don't think any other category comes close in terms of driver talent.

 

So I was just wondering who you guys think would make it into a list of the best drivers in the world across all categories of racing.  I didn't include WRC as I don't watch it much anymore so feel free to include them if you want.

 

I decided on a list of 20 so in no particular order I would have from F1 - Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Webber, Rosberg, Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Ricciardo, Perez

 

Nascar - Johnson, Stewart, Busch, Kenseth

 

Indycar - Power, Dixon, Franchitti

 

V8 - Whincup

 

DTM - Rockenfeller

 

doesn't work

 

good Nascar drivers are good in Nascar, they wouldn't work in F1 or WRC. And vice versa. And IMO you over-rate Indycar, Franchitti rules indycar yet in Europe he was pretty much a mediocre driver

[Muppetmad]

You are overrating Indycar and DTM. Almost everyone in those series would rather be driving F1. I don't know all the names, but Power and Franchitti got as far as a F1 test but failed to impress.

You are underrating IndyCar. People thought Barrichello would stroll into the series and dominate; he didn't. It's certainly not like the current ex-F1 drivers (Sato, Wilson, Bourdais) dominate the races either; Sato collapsed after a strong start to the season, Wilson was strong but not dominant and Bourdais had sporadic success (although in his defence that was mostly down to the car and bad luck). That suggests the talent at the front end of the field is greater than you believe it is.

[JHSingo]

You are overrating Indycar and DTM. Almost everyone in those series would rather be driving F1. I don't know all the names, but Power and Franchitti got as far as a F1 test but failed to impress.

 

Disagree. Would any of the current F1 drivers have the balls to race wheel-to-wheel with drivers all around them at over 220mph on an oval like what was seen in the last IndyCar race of the season?

 

That's part of the other reason I rate rally drivers/oval racers. In F1 these days (with the only possible exception being a street circuit like Monaco/Montreal) they've made it virtually impossible to hit anything. Look at the modern tracks - miles of run off, and absolutely no risk of damaging your car if you make a mistake. If you make a mistake on an oval track, or a rally stage, where there is concrete walls/trees instead of miles of run off, you're on a one way journey straight to the scene of a sizeable accident.

 

You are underrating IndyCar. People thought Barrichello would stroll into the series and dominate; he didn't. It's certainly not like the current ex-F1 drivers (Sato, Wilson, Bourdais) dominate the races either; Sato collapsed after a strong start to the season, Wilson was strong but not dominant and Bourdais had sporadic success (although in his defence that was mostly down to the car and bad luck). That suggests the talent at the front end of the field is greater than you believe it is.

 

I remember what Barrichello said regarding Indy last year. He said he'd learnt more racing there than he had in his entire F1 career. Jean Alesi described them as the four hardest corners in the world, too...

[fastwriter]

I'd say that Sebastian Loeb is the best driver in the world, when it goes down to talent.

 

But you have very good drivers in almost all categories. But that doesn't mean they would be great F1 drivers as well. I can't see a lot of guys outside F1 that would be better than the midfield F1 drivers at the moment. One of them is Kubica, the other Glock, but then it stops.

[mnmracer]

Disagree. Would any of the current F1 drivers have the balls to race wheel-to-wheel with drivers all around them at over 220mph on an oval like what was seen in the last IndyCar race of the season?

There's a difference between not needing to, and being afraid to if the occasion arises. Same with people claiming modern F1 drivers wouldn't dare be a F1 driver in the 60's. A completely asinine idea. These drivers give what they need to give to do what they do best.

[Afterburner]

There's a difference between not needing to, and being afraid to if the occasion arises. Same with people claiming modern F1 drivers wouldn't dare be a F1 driver in the 60's. A completely asinine idea. These drivers give what they need to give to do what they do best.

 

Eh, I'm tempted to say Singo's point is valid. MS himself turned down the idea of doing Le Mans again because he felt it would be too dangerous. Some of them would probably do ovals (I'm thinking KR and LH, to name two), but I don't think all of them would.

[rhukkas]

It's difficult how to define 'best drivers'. i think what I am witnessing is the pool of drivers you have to compete against to win championships is becoming smaller and smaller. Bar a few exceptions, unless you are a millionaire you can't even get off the ground in karting. 

 

so you do get the 'best of the bunch' eventually making it to F1, but to get to that point nowadays is a different ball game. Money talks.

[SpaMaster]

I would rank rally drivers right up there. Rally drivers are arguably the most daring of all. Changing conditions, stamina, pushing through non-memorized stretches and the spectrum of grip-feel needed - I think what those drivers do are out of this world. Some F1 drivers talk too easily about balls and driving in changing conditions considering what the rally drivers do. So, from the recent past, Loeb, Petter, Ogier would be right up there. On the same regard, I consider Raikkonen and Kubica to be very special. What these two have done in the field of rally as new comers from a different field of F1 is very remarkable.

[KingTiger]

Eh, I'm tempted to say Singo's point is valid. MS himself turned down the idea of doing Le Mans again because he felt it would be too dangerous. Some of them would probably do ovals (I'm thinking KR and LH, to name two), but I don't think all of them would.

 

Schumi didn't want to do the Indy 500, not Le Mans from what I remember. He had no trouble doing over 360kph in Monza so I don't think a chicaned Mulsanne straight would keep him up at night. 

[Andrew Hope]

Schumi didn't want to do the Indy 500, not Le Mans from what I remember. He had no trouble doing over 360kph in Monza so I don't think a chicaned Mulsanne straight would keep him up at night. 

Then I guess it's a good thing he didn't do Le Mans after all.

[ebc]

Which one?  Or both?

 

I agree F1 doesn't have all off the best drivers.  If a checkbook is a prerequisite for a good number of drives it's hard to pretend that only the most talented guys get rides.

 

 I meant Kyle but Kurt would be right up there on talent, can't wait to see how he does at SHR next year.

[Collombin]

I would rank rally drivers right up there.

 

Watching elite rally drivers seems an awesome display of skill compared to watching F1. Yet every time an F1 driver tries out rallying I never fail to be impressed by how amazingly they perform.

[917k]

Then I guess it's a good thing he didn't do Le Mans after all.

MS did Lemans in 1991, finishing 5th in a Mercedes...........

[REDalert]

Watching elite rally drivers seems an awesome display of skill compared to watching F1. Yet every time an F1 driver tries out rallying I never fail to be impressed by how amazingly they perform.

If you ment Kubica and Raikkonen, both have rallyed as a "hobby" before they went doing it for "serious". And I consider both as multitalented motorsport drivers. 

WRC and F1 are just so different worlds, that it`s like comparing figure skaters and ice hockey players, both needs skates and ice, but thats it.

Being a top rally driver takes as much skill as being a top formula1 diver, just two different sports.

[JHSingo]

He had no trouble doing over 360kph in Monza so I don't think a chicaned Mulsanne straight would keep him up at night. 

 

Ignorance is bliss.

[JSDSKI]

Raw talent takes one only so far. 

 

But honing skill in one type of motorsport these days tends to create specialists because of the regulated and technical differences between the series.  You'd never get any drivers like Gurney, Clark, or Foyt working multiple series these days.  Leaving aside the contracted restrictions for a moment, the cars are far too different and the skill set to narrow in each series to allow much overlap.  Before aero, cars were fundamentally the same.  They relied mostly on mechanical grip. The bigger the car the harder it was to move it around (Nascar),  The tinier the engine (1.5 Liter F1) the more important it was to conserve momentum with smooth technique.

 

Nowadays, look at what happened with Montoya.  GP winner.  Indy winner.  Daytona 24 hour winner.  Couldn't quite get to the peak in Nascar.  Does he lack talent? No.  Balls, No.  A weaker team?  Maybe, but he still should have won at least one oval during his time there.  What was he missing?  I believe it was time and experience on ovals.  But mostly it's the new skill set for setup and a driving technique that doesn't really match up for a guy who grew up in open wheel racing with wings.  Same thing happened to Franchitti.

 

I think Andretti is probably the very last of the multiple series winner and champion.  The technical barrier between series wasn't quite as tall back in the day and before aero took over race car engineering.  And despite what some on this forum seem to think, it's not a magical difference in talent or determination or balls or anything like that.  Most drivers have much more respect for each others accomplishments and skill across series than some posters might imagine.  They all know how difficult getting to the top really is.  No matter what series.  

Edited by JSDSKI, 26 October 2013 - 00:51.

[RealRacing]

I´m not sure but I think F1 drivers heading to Indy have done better than Indy drivers going to F1? I'd venture though that level of competitive driving in Europe is higher than anywhere else.

[Myrvold]

MS did Lemans in 1991, finishing 5th in a Mercedes...........

Ah, no offence but good man (or pretty lady) But if you look at the quote that Andrew quoted, he bolded out "so I don't think a chicaned Mulsanne straight would keep him up at night. " which he then played as a joke. As he kinda have to keep himself up at night to do Le Mans. Humor, not serious!

[rmpugh]

When Daniil Kvyat was announced at Toro Rosso I read alot of comments from people on this board and others that F1 does not have the best drivers in the world anymore.  I watch alot of motorsport and don't think any other category comes close in terms of driver talent.

 

So I was just wondering who you guys think would make it into a list of the best drivers in the world across all categories of racing.  I didn't include WRC as I don't watch it much anymore so feel free to include them if you want.

 

I decided on a list of 20 so in no particular order I would have from F1 - Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel, Button, Webber, Rosberg, Grosjean, Hulkenberg, Ricciardo, Perez

 

Nascar - Johnson, Stewart, Busch, Kenseth

 

Indycar - Power, Dixon, Franchitti

 

V8 - Whincup

 

DTM - Rockenfeller

 

No offence, but if RB would have chosen JEV, would you have replaced him with Ricciardo? You seem to have just chosen all of the drivers in top drives, this year or next. IMHO, Bianchi is a much better driver than most, certainly better than Ricciardo and Perez.

 

As for American SS racing, well our Nige went over there and destroyed everyone in his rookie year. NASCAR compares to F1 like WWF compares to Heavyweight boxing.

[Andrew Hope]

NASCAR compares to F1 like WWF compares to Heavyweight boxing.

That's why Montoya destroyed everyone in NASCAR, right?

[rmpugh]

That's why Montoya destroyed everyone in NASCAR, right?

 

If David Haye was beaten in a WWF match by Hulk Hogan, would that make Hulk Hogan the better fighter?

[Andrew Hope]

If my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle, what does that have to do with anything? Cheap shots at NASCAR are pretty lame, and F1 is not in a position to be mocking any other racing series.

[Nobody]

WRC's best are the best in the world, there is no doubt in my mind.

[rmpugh]

If my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle, what does that have to do with anything? Cheap shots at NASCAR are pretty lame, and F1 is not in a position to be mocking any other racing series.

 

I will avoid the obvious jokes about certain family members also being other family members amongst NASCAR fans

[LB]

 I'm still laughing at the Dario was hopeless in Europe thing... Formula Vauxhall jnr champ, Formula Vauxhall Lotus Champ, F3 race winner and fourth overall in debut year, Won in DTM cars then went stateside.

 

F1 has NEVER been  the best drivers out there. Money, both lack of for some, and too much of for others, has far too much influence over the progress up the ranks. Car differences also mess up everything. Who has been quicker this season?  Truthfully we just don't know and that is not bashing Vettel (whom I like) its just a truism.

[RosannaG]

I have no idea how I could judge who the best of the world is or are... 

 

So leaving that concept apart, for me somebody who is able to win 7 World Championships on two wheels (and how he got them) and 1 World Championship on 4 wheels is quite awesome. 

 

John Surtees, what a guy! 

[Collombin]

If you ment Kubica and Raikkonen, both have rallyed as a "hobby" before they went doing it for "serious".

 

The first two I thought of were Clark and Reutemann (stuck in the past me), but the point is certainly still valid (to a lesser extent) for Kubica and Raikkonen too.

 

It makes me think that F1 drivers are the best, but that rallying allows drivers to give a greater demonstration of their skills.

[Collombin]

I´m not sure but I think F1 drivers heading to Indy have done better than Indy drivers going to F1?

 

By far. One of my favourite motorsport quotes is from Graham Hill after winning Indy (with Clark 2nd, and Stewart having dropped out of the lead with just a few laps left). He said "Me and Jimmy are thinking of sponsoring a new trophy for next year, to be given to the highest placed American driver".

[Andrew Hope]

Maybe they could have had their own little championship for guys in Lotus cars, too.

[Collombin]

Hill and Stewart drove Lolas.

[teejay]

JPM has won in Nascar, F1, Indy, and Champcar.

 

 

#1!

[Forma1]

Fernando Alonso. At least in F1. But motorsport is enjoying such a variety so you cna't get everything under one roof, but for me Fernando. He was the only man in recent years to take on the fight against RB: a man-machinery fight. He managaed with his talent and consistency to fight for the title despite sitting in a mediocre car for most of the time.

[ArnageWRC]

Modern Motorsport is now about specialising in one type, especially the F1 guys, who aren't allowed to try other categories.

However, I have the most respect for the drivers that do try other categories; Loeb, Rossi, Raikkonen and Kubica are the best well known. Romain Dumas seems do drive anything with 4 wheels and an engine; GT, LMP, Pikes Peak, Rally... Similarly, Timo Bernhard drove and won Rally Saarland in a 911 GT3 Cup a month ago.

For anyone to claim F1 has the best drivers is totally false - and another example of ignorance.

[stillOrange]

Fernando Alonso. At least in F1. But motorsport is enjoying such a variety so you cna't get everything under one roof, but for me Fernando. He was the only man in recent years to take on the fight against RB: a man-machinery fight. He managaed with his talent and consistency to fight for the title despite sitting in a mediocre car for most of the time.

Did you read the thread or even opening post? Or you just saw the title and couldn't stop yourself from proclaiming your love to Alonso and belittling Seb's achievements?

On topic though. Just like few others here, when it comes to "who's the best?" overall, I would rate the ones that were successful in different kinds of Motorsport.

Edited by stillOrange, 26 October 2013 - 11:40.

[InSearchOfThe]

I'd say that Sebastian Loeb is the best driver in the world, when it goes down to talent.

 

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Very underrated.

[PassWind]

Many drivers are top of their fields, for a list I would be looking at versatility, so guys like Marcos Ambrose, Seb Loeb, Tony Stewart, Carlos Sainz the mryiad of sportscar drivers that race multiple disciplines in the EU. Sort of guys that have been elite in the chosen field and hired on at different times and proven themselves reliable in varying equipment in varying disciplines, I am sure you could get an wasy list of 200 or so racing today.....

[ebc]

No offence, but if RB would have chosen JEV, would you have replaced him with Ricciardo? You seem to have just chosen all of the drivers in top drives, this year or next. IMHO, Bianchi is a much better driver than most, certainly better than Ricciardo and Perez.

 

As for American SS racing, well our Nige went over there and destroyed everyone in his rookie year. NASCAR compares to F1 like WWF compares to Heavyweight boxing.

 

I thought somebody might pick up on that To be honest I was struggling to get to 20 drivers so I added Ricciardo and Perez in as I couldn't really think who was better from the other series.  I do like Bianchi though and think he could be very good but it is hard to tell. 

[Collombin]

As for American SS racing, well our Nige went over there and destroyed everyone in his rookie year.

 

But Michael Andretti came over to race in F1 that year and did exactly the same.

 

EDIT - sorry, I misread "everyone" as "everything".

[SpaMaster]

Watching elite rally drivers seems an awesome display of skill compared to watching F1. Yet every time an F1 driver tries out rallying I never fail to be impressed by how amazingly they perform.

I think only the special ones ever try it! You have to be really up for it to even get to a position where you can drive a rally car since most F1 teams won't even allow their drivers to do it. Those who go beyond that to drive a rally car, in my view, have great determination to perform.

 

The first two I thought of were Clark and Reutemann (stuck in the past me), but the point is certainly still valid (to a lesser extent) for Kubica and Raikkonen too.

 

It makes me think that F1 drivers are the best, but that rallying allows drivers to give a greater demonstration of their skills.

I don't think you can generalize F1 drivers with those drivers. Those are some exceptional drivers, I mean DRIVING ANYTHING GOOD kind of drivers, they just happened to be in F1, that's all. I think F1 has nothing to do with what they did in rallying.

Edited by SpaMaster, 26 October 2013 - 18:49.

[P0inters]

I agree with alot people here , I think it's Sebastian Loeb. Dominating WRC and winning 9 years in a row is an incredible feat. Plus , he's only crashed like 10 times in those 9 years. And now he's won in GT racing , holds the record for Pikes Peak and is going up against one of the best touring car drivers of this generation , in Yvan Muller. Just brilliant.     

[zippythecat]

Re the NASCAR comparisons, remember that Raikkonen ran a couple of truck and Nationwide races during 2011. He did well considering the machinery he was in, put it about where it deserved to be. Had he opted to go the Sprint Cup route for his circuit-racing comeback it would've been pretty easy to see him besting Montoya and Ambrose. Getting consistently up to the front with the Johnsons, Gordons and Ky. Buschs of the series, that would've been a tougher ask.

[sopa]

Best drivers in what? The disciplines are so different I am having a hard time comparing them. Yes, I can take a random number and include, say, 8 drivers from F1, 3 from NASCAR and 2 from WRC, based on gut feeling about how popular each series is. Still quite arbitrary and not a direct comparison in anything.

[TomNokoe]

Anyone mentioned Loic Duval? He is very fast.

[Zeroninety]

 

As for American SS racing, well our Nige went over there and destroyed everyone in his rookie year.

 

The weird thing about Mansell's IndyCar championship--he was good, but not outstanding, on road courses (the type of racing he'd done his whole career, remember). Had it been a road-only series, he would have finished fourth, behind Fittipaldi, Paul Tracy, and Bobby Rahal. What saved things for Nige was how brilliantly he adapted to ovals: of his five wins that year, four came on ovals (and he came close to picking up one more, at Indy itself).