Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Toyota runaways part 2


  • Please log in to reply
134 replies to this topic

#51 indigoid

indigoid
  • Member

  • 365 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:45



What is the START button doing to cause the accidents?

 

I think Lee means not being able to kill the engine quickly enough, due to having to hold the button for N seconds before it actually decides to do anything

 

Possibly a legit concern - either way in a stressful situation you're probably going to fumble for the kill control (whether key or button) so that is probably a net increase in time to kill the engine

 

I am not convinced, however, that this is a big deal



Advertisement

#52 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:56

The button shuts the engine down straight away



#53 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 5,644 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 14 January 2014 - 11:07

What is the START button doing to cause the accidents?

The accident usually happens sometime after the button has been pressed.
It is obvious that if they removed or simply disconnected this button these people wouldn't be able to crash.



#54 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 14 January 2014 - 11:32

No button, no power, no accident. I understand now



#55 Greg Locock

Greg Locock
  • Member

  • 4,393 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 14 January 2014 - 18:17

What is the START button doing to cause the accidents?

Briefly, there are documented cases where drivers have been unable to kill the engine using the Start button, for various reasons. Combined with a perhaps not really fully explained occasional tendency for the throttle to jam open this has caused deaths.



#56 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 15 January 2014 - 01:50

None over here though? 



#57 JAW

JAW
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 15 January 2014 - 05:27

Wonder how the Toymota data recorder recall compares vis a`vis the actuality of which 'buttons' were pushed & in what order...



#58 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 17 January 2014 - 01:48

Data recorder?



#59 JAW

JAW
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:35

In CPU memory..



Advertisement

#60 munks

munks
  • Member

  • 342 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:16

IMHO cars should have some kind of barrier underneath the driver seat, too, to stop things sliding forward from the rear seat floor.

 

They need some sort of idiot detector before starting the car, too, since in my youthful stupidity I lost hold of a ferret I was transporting without a cage. He quickly found the area around the pedals to be fascinating, which required me to *very* carefully brake while pulling off the road.



#61 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:56

The button shuts the engine down straight away

Yeah after you have held it down for 5 seconds!!!

#62 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:05

Having to drive Toymota hacks for work purposes, I reckon they are merely appliances, & fairly unpleasant as driving machines..
That fly-by-wire throttle disconnect is un-nerving, & the plough understeer/poor driver visibility is shocking.
 
I seriously doubt that claim of a sub-6 second 0-60mph V6 Camry time too, (& I've tried)..
 
But they are 'female-friendly' apparently, & many Toymota drivers don't know any better I guess..

Customers of the Asian persuasion: Toyota is good as they can say the word. ferals and bogans: Commodore is good as they can spin the tyres.
Women should never be allowed to buy cars, really. So many sensible intelligent otherwise practical women buy cars because of online sites or because it is cute! Or both! And their idea of cute is something different. Many also equate an underpowered passenger van as economical, even when said death trap is obviously using more petrol than hubbys company car with an engine twice as large!

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 19 January 2014 - 06:49.


#63 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:29

Yeah after you have held it down for 5 seconds!!!

No as soon as you touch the button it shuts down



#64 JAW

JAW
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:30

V6 Camly will spin tyres, trouble is, it is usually on wet roundabouts & the torque steer tries to tug the wheel out of your grasp..

 

Chicks will want a car - based on its colour, smell, or if its got a flower holder on the dash..

 

& don't mention parking it, checking tyre pressures or even fuelling it up,

...& 'what does that red warning light running constantly on mean?'..



#65 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,066 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:14

At least women don't chose cars to show off how big their penis is.....



#66 saudoso

saudoso
  • Member

  • 4,410 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:40

At least women don't chose cars to compensate show off how big their penis is.....

There, fixed for you.



#67 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,066 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 17 January 2014 - 21:09

There, fixed for you.

Thank you!  That was what I meant of course.  :wave:



#68 JAW

JAW
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 17 January 2014 - 23:24

So, for chicks.. the ones who drive a flashy motor.. are showing off what they've got/want/need  - in a strap on?

 

What is that old saying again.. ..something along the lines of..

 

"The only time you'll see a fugly chick in a Ferrari.. is -  if she owns it.."



#69 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 19 January 2014 - 05:56

In CPU memory..

There isn't a data recorder in the ECM it stores codes etc when something happens



#70 JAW

JAW
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:31

So you'd think..

 

It does record certain functions, but only the  Toymota buttons pushed, not the Drivers/occupants..


Edited by JAW, 19 January 2014 - 06:42.


#71 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:54

No as soon as you touch the button it shuts down

Not on the few I have driven, of several makes. Stupid button in the middle of the dash that all occupants can see and probably reach. On right hand drive cars even more stupid for the majority as you have to use it left handed!

#72 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:56

So, for chicks.. the ones who drive a flashy motor.. are showing off what they've got/want/need  - in a strap on?
 
What is that old saying again.. ..something along the lines of..
 
"The only time you'll see a fugly chick in a Ferrari.. is -  if she owns it.."

The ONLY road Ferrari owner I know of is a stunner. High maintenance though as you would expect

#73 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 20 January 2014 - 20:25

Not on the few I have driven, of several makes. Stupid button in the middle of the dash that all occupants can see and probably reach. On right hand drive cars even more stupid for the majority as you have to use it left handed!

I am talking about the Prius and Camry which as soon as the button is pressed the vehicle stops. You don't have to hold it down for any length of time



#74 Greg Locock

Greg Locock
  • Member

  • 4,393 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 20 January 2014 - 21:21

The engine may stop fairly quickly, I doubt the vehicle stops. Anyway, typically (across many makes)  up until now it has taken a 3 second push on the button to kill the engine. 3 seconds is a long time in an emergency. I haven't driven a start button Camry, certainly the Kluger is not instantaneous. One wonders why they would have different settings for this.



#75 indigoid

indigoid
  • Member

  • 365 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 21 January 2014 - 00:19

In a similar vein to Lee's whinge about start buttons and their location - what was the justification for putting the hazards switch in the middle of the dash as all modern cars seem to do? I quite liked the previously-commonplace location of just ahead of the steering wheel, on the column



#76 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:58

I am talking about the Prius and Camry which as soon as the button is pressed the vehicle stops. You don't have to hold it down for any length of time

Camry is 3 seconds of delay at least. An absolute pain to move it out of my driveway onto the street. And a 'racing' start button on Camry and worse a Prius. Too acomplished non performance models!

#77 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:01

In a similar vein to Lee's whinge about start buttons and their location - what was the justification for putting the hazards switch in the middle of the dash as all modern cars seem to do? I quite liked the previously-commonplace location of just ahead of the steering wheel, on the column

My bleats before about standardisation of controls. Where has this mob hidden whichever control you are looking for. I could not even tell you on the vehicles I drive regularly where the hazards are . And it needs to be daylight for me to go hunt!

#78 Greg Locock

Greg Locock
  • Member

  • 4,393 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 21 January 2014 - 22:42

I don't know who moved them, I can think of 4 likely suspects

 

1) package - there isn't that much room in the housing. i don't think it is this one

2)NVH - every bit of weight you can get out of the top of the column improves the bending resonant frequency

3)Crash - every bit of hardware between the steering wheel and the rack is an additional complication

4) An international committee

 

I agree it is stupid, flashing your hazards in the UK is a great way of waking up the dozy driver behind you as you brake at 0.6g from 80 mph into the back of a queue. As such you should be able to hit them without looking.



#79 JAW

JAW
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 23 January 2014 - 02:40

& for a interior shot  - preview  -  of the 2015 Lexus hybrid...

 

http://www.nmusafvir...J Engineer.html



Advertisement

#80 JAW

JAW
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 23 January 2014 - 02:54

Anyone counted the number of cup-holders in that new Lexus yet? (see post stat above).. 



#81 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 23 January 2014 - 11:03

& for a interior shot  - preview  -  of the 2015 Lexus hybrid...
 
http://www.nmusafvir...J Engineer.html

That green will never hack it with the buyers.

#82 kikiturbo2

kikiturbo2
  • Member

  • 625 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 23 January 2014 - 14:27


 

I agree it is stupid, flashing your hazards in the UK is a great way of waking up the dozy driver behind you as you brake at 0.6g from 80 mph into the back of a queue. As such you should be able to hit them without looking.

 

This is automatic on most euro cars since early 2000's...



#83 JAW

JAW
  • Member

  • 225 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:46

Re the new Lexus..

 

But - its got a self parking feature!

 

& the hybrid recip & turbine feature is so mid 2nd decade - 21st century.. ..L.O.L...


Edited by JAW, 24 January 2014 - 01:47.


#84 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 26 January 2014 - 05:56

Camry is 3 seconds of delay at least. An absolute pain to move it out of my driveway onto the street. And a 'racing' start button on Camry and worse a Prius. Too acomplished non performance models!

 

I have a Hybrid Camry company car. An there is no delay in the starting or stopping of the engine with the start button. Perhaps you have an issue with the ONE you have had. 



#85 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 26 January 2014 - 05:58

The engine may stop fairly quickly, I doubt the vehicle stops. Anyway, typically (across many makes)  up until now it has taken a 3 second push on the button to kill the engine. 3 seconds is a long time in an emergency. I haven't driven a start button Camry, certainly the Kluger is not instantaneous. One wonders why they would have different settings for this.

 

Camry and Prius are the same the others are slightly different. But it is the Camry and Prius your all complaining about. Oh and by the way most of what has been written here about the big conspiracy theory in regards to acceleration etc is wrong.



#86 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:38

I have a Hybrid Camry company car. An there is no delay in the starting or stopping of the engine with the start button. Perhaps you have an issue with the ONE you have had.

They don't like you then?

#87 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 5,644 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:03

They even threw in the floor mats for free.

#88 Greg Locock

Greg Locock
  • Member

  • 4,393 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 27 January 2014 - 23:23

So if you drive along the freeway and touch (not hold) the start stop button the engine stops instantly? I don't have access to a Camry to try that but gut feel says B/S.



#89 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 5,644 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 27 January 2014 - 23:52

The motor won't stop instantly with a normal car with an auto box and a key.

You don't have any engine power but the transmission is still turning the engine. (the torque converter doesn't know if the motor is switched off)

#90 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 28 January 2014 - 05:23

So if you drive along the freeway and touch (not hold) the start stop button the engine stops instantly? I don't have access to a Camry to try that but gut feel says B/S.

 

How many one here have driven either a Hybrid Camry or Prius? My guess would be not many. I still haven't found anything reliable that dealers know about this as has been said on this thread, so is this just hearsay or is there proof?



#91 Greg Locock

Greg Locock
  • Member

  • 4,393 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 28 January 2014 - 22:27

I drove a Prius, but long before any of this blew up. So, take your camry, drive at 100 kph on a deserted freeway, and press the start button until the engine cuts. Get back to us with the time interval. Wow, data!



#92 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 28 January 2014 - 23:39

How many one here have driven either a Hybrid Camry or Prius? My guess would be not many. I still haven't found anything reliable that dealers know about this as has been said on this thread, so is this just hearsay or is there proof?

I have driven current Camry petrol, and a 5 y/o Prius. Niether turn off immediately. Both as potential used cars, the Prius was just to drive one. I would never own one. Warranty would kill me! As probably would a hybrid Camry. I s there any that are not in government fleets? Kevs Camry, but I don't think even he drove one as a personal car
The Camry as boring as it is I would buy, it was just too dear!

#93 indigoid

indigoid
  • Member

  • 365 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 29 January 2014 - 02:02

I have driven current Camry petrol, and a 5 y/o Prius. Niether turn off immediately. Both as potential used cars, the Prius was just to drive one. I would never own one. Warranty would kill me! As probably would a hybrid Camry. I s there any that are not in government fleets? Kevs Camry, but I don't think even he drove one as a personal car
The Camry as boring as it is I would buy, it was just too dear!

 

I've seen lots of Prius and Camry hybrid taxis.

 

The former in Kuala Lumpur (where they would have paid a substantial premium over the cost of a Proton, due to tariffs) and the latter in Sydney

 

I'm sure I saw some Toyota hybrid taxis in Colombo too


Edited by indigoid, 29 January 2014 - 02:02.


#94 gruntguru

gruntguru
  • Member

  • 5,039 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:45

Lots of Prius taxis in Brisbane.



#95 Amaroo Park

Amaroo Park
  • Member

  • 295 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:37

I drove a Prius, but long before any of this blew up. So, take your camry, drive at 100 kph on a deserted freeway, and press the start button until the engine cuts. Get back to us with the time interval. Wow, data!

 

No need i have driven plenty and know how they operate

 

So what about the throttle jamming open, no one has come back with anything on that. Now would that be because it is a ll a bit of a beat up? 



#96 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 29 January 2014 - 09:59

Lots of Prius taxis in Brisbane.

Lots of Prius taxis at the moment. That may change though. They cost way too much to maintain. And only carry 4 people also.
A few Camry hybrid, and the same troubles. But do carry 5 people [inc driver]
I have not heard of the acceleration problem on hybrids, normal petrol Toyotas only. It is very secret, but it does seem to happen for real. Not just in the US. And it is not the mats.Throttle pedals maybe, ECU maybe

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 29 January 2014 - 10:02.


#97 gruntguru

gruntguru
  • Member

  • 5,039 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:50

Lots of Prius taxis at the moment. That may change though. They cost way too much to maintain. And only carry 4 people also.
 

I don't think taxi operators are stupid. I walked past a local cab rank last night - 5 cabs, 5 Prii

 

Edit. I was thinking about battery life and came to the conclusion that a taxi would still get most of the hybrid benefit from a Prius battery with only a fraction of its original capacity. City cycle, regen braking, little benefit from energy stored overnight etc.


Edited by gruntguru, 30 January 2014 - 23:54.


#98 indigoid

indigoid
  • Member

  • 365 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:04



So what about the throttle jamming open, no one has come back with anything on that. Now would that be because it is a ll a bit of a beat up? 

 

It sure smells like a beat-up to me. Toyota (including Daihatsu & Hino) supposedly sold 9.98 million vehicles in 2013, and 9.75 million in 2012. If there really were terrible safety problems you'd not be able to avoid hearing all about it.

 

The the not-quite-enough-grease-on-the-electric-window-switches recall, which involved 3.2 million vehicles IIRC, made pretty big news, and that had a very very small number of actual reported incidents.


Edited by indigoid, 31 January 2014 - 04:05.


#99 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 5,389 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:52

I don't think taxi operators are stupid. I walked past a local cab rank last night - 5 cabs, 5 Prii
 
Edit. I was thinking about battery life and came to the conclusion that a taxi would still get most of the hybrid benefit from a Prius battery with only a fraction of its original capacity. City cycle, regen braking, little benefit from energy stored overnight etc.

Cabby I know has one and wont have another Prius. Most owner drivers still buy used ex fleet Commodores and Falcons.Yellow cabs in Adelaide have bought a lot of Toymotas. Reputedly the experience has not been that good with the hybrids. And old Camrys are very tired loose things,, at 250000 not the 600000 extracted from the full size cars. Even with LPG costing twice its worth it is cheaper to run a Falcon.

Advertisement

#100 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 5,644 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:22

It is different in NSW and other states where a Taxi must be less than five years old. Here nobody is going to buy a used car to turn into a Taxi.