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Toyota runaways part 2


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#101 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 23:17

It is different in NSW and other states where a Taxi must be less than five years old. Here nobody is going to buy a used car to turn into a Taxi.

As far as I am aware the age is 8 years Oz wide. Melbourne defenitly has 8 y/o cabs. I rode in one recently!
The problem with ex govt cars in recent times instead of selling them at under 40k or 18 months they are now doing 60k plus. Look at a Pickles auction list. Actually bad business as less new cars [the ones that were Australian made] are sold and less late model cars go back into the economy. What they used to sell for meant that government was actually getting the cars for free, or almost free as they do not pay Sales Tax or stamp duty.Now they are tearing up on resale and have to maintain them too. Though that is often far too little. Some of these 60k cars have ever only had ONE service in 2-3 years. And when sold are sometimes running bald tyres, worn out brakes and other faults. Though in the past the worse cars were the Police cars at under 40k. And I am sure they are worse now.

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#102 Canuck

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 06:37

I recently, finally replaced my beat up old Previa with a jumped-up Toyota.  I picked up an RX400h hybrid and love it.  It works flawlessly - except the voice control but it seems to be me as none of my voice-dial crap works well.  It starts the engine when it has to, shuts it off as soon as you're coasting or stopped, warms up the interior quickly in the winter (very nice when it's -20C), has all-wheel drive and gets better mileage than either the van or the beemer. 



#103 indigoid

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:25

Though in the past the worse cars were the Police cars at under 40k.

 

LOTS of police Camrys out there. I've even seem them in Highway Patrol livery. Haven't seen any hybrids, though.



#104 Amaroo Park

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 07:04

And still no one came back with proof of a cover up and you know why they didn't (SHOCK HORROR) because there is none. :eek:



#105 Greg Locock

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 09:18

What do you mean by a cover-up? Doesn't seem much point in one since Toyota are paying $16million fine,plus millions if not a billion dollars out on this. in civil suits, plus recalling hundreds of thousands of cars Which would make it about the worst cover-up I've ever come across.

I still haven't come across a Camry with a start button, I'll report back when i've tried it. Do you still claim the engine stops instantaneously when the button is touched?

#106 Amaroo Park

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:58

So what is this recall hasn't had one out here that's for sure.

 

No its not a claim it is fact.



#107 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 06:46

LOTS of police Camrys out there. I've even seem them in Highway Patrol livery. Haven't seen any hybrids, though.

Not in SA. A Camry highway car,,, a waste of time as a pursuit car. I have never seen one in Victoria either.



#108 NeilR

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:04

As far as I am aware the age is 8 years Oz wide. Melbourne defenitly has 8 y/o cabs. I rode in one recently!
The problem with ex govt cars in recent times instead of selling them at under 40k or 18 months they are now doing 60k plus. Look at a Pickles auction list. Actually bad business as less new cars [the ones that were Australian made] are sold and less late model cars go back into the economy. What they used to sell for meant that government was actually getting the cars for free, or almost free as they do not pay Sales Tax or stamp duty.Now they are tearing up on resale and have to maintain them too. Though that is often far too little. Some of these 60k cars have ever only had ONE service in 2-3 years. And when sold are sometimes running bald tyres, worn out brakes and other faults. Though in the past the worse cars were the Police cars at under 40k. And I am sure they are worse now.

 

Sorry, as the uer of Govt fleet cars let me say that this is not true. The carsare bought new with warranty and get the full service reqirements for each model. They do get bent a lot in parking crashes...but that should reflect on the drivers. Hybris cars havecaused problems when people have left interior lights on over holidays etc and a new battery was required.



#109 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 21:56

Sorry, as the uer of Govt fleet cars let me say that this is not true. The carsare bought new with warranty and get the full service reqirements for each model. They do get bent a lot in parking crashes...but that should reflect on the drivers. Hybris cars havecaused problems when people have left interior lights on over holidays etc and a new battery was required.

I have 40 years in the car trade, believe me many are seldom serviced. I have been to umpteen auctions of state and federal cars. Most of the time they are actually serviced is when something fails and it then has to go out for repair, often on a tilt tray!  IF you arrive about an hour early to look at the cars and as a dealer I can normally get a look at the books of the ones that interest me. Since for me those late model cars are a bigger deal I normally do so.  [My main market is under about 12k] Though talking to the franchise house buyers I hear this all the time. Sometimes the history is so poor the books get lost!

I had to go to a location recently next to a state govt department and walked through their cars, I reckon 50% would be defected if the cops did so. Though evidently that is a no no. A young cop I know defected the car he was assigned and got all sorts of grief. Though he was right to do so, bald tyres, badly pulsing brakes and a bad tailshaft viabration meant the car was unroadworthy!  My brother services Police BMW bikes, the riders are getting it done in their own time or it would never get done. And getting flack about 'budget' when they present the bills.  And those things are imperative for proper servicing, and yes they are running those far longer now too.

 

30 years ago I bought a few ex govt cars at auction, with inside knowledge. A mate worked at the then 'government' auctions and got to read the service historys and drive the cars. We then managed to buy  the good cars, some even then had poor service history  and sometimes quite shoddy  repairs of crash damage too. Those we rejected!



#110 gruntguru

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 23:04

Hybris cars havecaused problems when people have left interior lights on over holidays etc and a new battery was required.

Not the hybrid battery though. AFAIK Toyota hybrids have a separate 12v battery for the vehicle electrics. I have heard that it is more expensive than average however.



#111 gruntguru

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 23:06

I have 40 years in the car trade, believe me many are seldom serviced. I have been to umpteen auctions of state and federal cars.

There will no doubt be variations in policy between state governments and even going from region to region.



#112 NeilR

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 02:24

I can only reflect on my office not the whole of government. The department would be crucified if a vehicle was 'shoddy' and a worker was hurt for simple OH&S issues. All cars get scheduled services, on time. Crash damage is all up to the insurer to fix...I do know that we cop a lot of damage to the fleet.

Thanks for that Gruntguru...could they have done anything else to flatten the battery? Was in a prius and it took a bit of time to get a new battery...I had assumed it was the main one from the reported cost.


Edited by NeilR, 19 February 2014 - 02:24.


#113 Catalina Park

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:40

I had the opportunity to press the start button on a Hybrid Camry while it was in operation. Two things happened...
Firstly the motor cut straight away just like turning a key off.
Secondly the taxi driver got very angry.

#114 275 GTB-4

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 06:02

Secondly the taxi driver got very angry.


In a language you could understand? :well:



#115 Catalina Park

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:10

Oh yes, I can understand anger in quite a few different languages, it is a gift.

#116 Zoe

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 06:32

I just had a Prius as a rental car and the stop button shuts the car down immediately when the car is stationary. When it is driving, the button needs to be pressed and held for 2 seconds or so for the car to shut down (and then immediately into neutral).

 

Zoe



#117 gruntguru

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:37

That explains a lot of things.



#118 indigoid

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 07:38

I just had a Prius as a rental car and the stop button shuts the car down immediately when the car is stationary. When it is driving, the button needs to be pressed and held for 2 seconds or so for the car to shut down (and then immediately into neutral).

 

What if you select N first, then hit the button while moving?



#119 Zoe

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 20:01

Dunno; I just thought of doing this little experiment on my very last day of car rental, Maybe the cars behaviour is also different for other countries or transmissions? (This was in LA)

 

Zoe



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#120 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 12:00

Originally posted by Amaroo Park

I wonder why this isn't an issue here in Australia

 

 

 

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle

It has been a problem. Hushed up but a genuine problem.

As many will attest.

Talk to Ray Bell! 

 

 

 

Originally posted by Amaroo Park

Ok News to me, so what are they doing about it out here?

 

 

 

Originally posted by gruntguru Ray must be on holidays.

 

Well, quite the reverse really...

 

Thoroughly overworked for several weeks, no time to scout around for topics of interest. Mind you, someone could have e-mailed me to let me know this was on the table again.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Catalina Park

I bet the dealers know all about it and the Service managers are hushing it up while the techs are performing voodoo rituals on the ECU.

 

Exactly what happened with my father's car...

 

"It's the floor mats, sir!" 

 

...old man mutters, "I'll show you b------s, you just wait until it happens again!" And he stowed the floor mats in the boot.

 

He told me he had a problem but he'd refrained from telling mum about it for fear it would upset her. But then he died. The car went to my sister who found the floor mats in the boot.

 

"Why would he do that? He is usually so proper with these things, they'd be where they're meant to be!" So she put them back on the floors. And then it happened to her, but she knew for a certainty that the mat was nowhere near the pedals. The car was tilt-trayed to the dealer.

 

"It's the floor mats, madam! And the mechanics have looked it over and confirmed that..."

 

"It wasn't the floor mats, I was looking at the damned floor mat less than a minute before it happened and it was six inches away from the pedals. It simply wasn't the floor mats."


"Well, we'll give you a loaner car and you can come back in the morning, experts from Toyota Australia are coming to check it out."

 

Just keep blaming the floor mats, people will either sell the cars out of fear (as my sister did) or give up in disgust. Or maybe die. 

 

This, by the way, was a Corolla. No fancy button, a key to turn off. 


Edited by Ray Bell, 15 March 2014 - 12:02.


#121 chipmcdonald

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 16:25

The go pedal used to occasionally wedge underneath the OEM floor mat in my 2001 (AE112) Corolla. Instead of lawyers-at-ten-paces I decided that I'd probably kicked it forward a bit.

 

 The floor mat on my 2000 Celica slides under the pedals, I just pull it back.  



#122 BRG

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 21:50

Funny that people make a fuss about Toyota when it was GM that was killing people....

 

Nothing to do with Toyota being Japanese and GM American of course.



#123 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 12:49

Wasn't there a Ford SUV did a bit of that too?

 

The real issue here, in my opinion, is the willingness of Toyota to just stick to their lie.



#124 desmo

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 14:24

Would redesigning the floormats or pedals such that interference between the two became impossible be outside the technical capabilities of a modern auto manufacturer?

#125 Magoo

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 21:43

Funny that people make a fuss about Toyota when it was GM that was killing people....

 

Nothing to do with Toyota being Japanese and GM American of course.

 

You kinda lost me there. I don't see GM getting any kind of a pass on the ignition recall. Right now in Washington they are racking up a whole series of congressional and executive agency investigations, and the TV networks have the story in heavy rotation on the nightly news. At this moment Mary Barra's job does not seem to be in danger but that could turn on a dime. 

 

If there is any material difference in the coverage beyond individual perceptions, it may well be down to newsworthiness. GM has a history of recalls and quality issues, but until very recently, Toyota did not. Dog bites man vs. man bites dog. 

 

Complaints of media bias are a sticky wicket, especially on business stories. 



#126 Greg Locock

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 21:51

I doubt there is any huge difference in the rate at which the big manufacturers kill their customers. A quick perusal of IIHS and NHTSA failed to turn up anything interesting.The data would be fairly noisy, after all Pinto was a safer car than its GM and Chrysler equivalents, in hindsight. That is overall death rate was lower per vehicle mile, simply because it was a much more modern design with disc brakes and so on.



#127 Greg Locock

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 21:57

Just thinking about it you have to be very careful with the stratification, for example Toyota Camrys don't get crashed like Mustangs, simply because of demographics. The Esprit had a fantastic reliability record in the USA, every one got smashed up in the first year of ownership and then took six months to fix. Our one year warranty figures were great.



#128 Magoo

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 22:03

Would redesigning the floormats or pedals such that interference between the two became impossible be outside the technical capabilities of a modern auto manufacturer?

 

Not if they want to sell cars in the modern consumer environment. In my view the OEs need to think in terms of corporate citizenship instead of corporate liability.

 

When these issues arise maybe the thinking should be, "What can we do here to maximize our brand equity and enhance consumer confidence?" As opposed to, "How can we weasel our way out of this one with minimal impact on this quarter's operating report?" 



#129 Magoo

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 22:17

Just thinking about it you have to be very careful with the stratification, for example Toyota Camrys don't get crashed like Mustangs, simply because of demographics. The Esprit had a fantastic reliability record in the USA, every one got smashed up in the first year of ownership and then took six months to fix. Our one year warranty figures were great.

 

In the late 1980s you could drive around back of the body shop at the Buick dealer and see a line of Grand Nationals, all with the identical utility pole-shaped crevasse in the right-rear quarter panel. 

 

IN the early '80s the joke went around the Warren tech center that the GM X-cars were the safest autos ever built, because wherever they went, there was a tow truck directly in front of them. 



#130 Greg Locock

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 22:55

Just found this one. It is not great but it has some neat graphs in it

 

http://www.slideshar...m-the-us-market



#131 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:05

Just thinking about it you have to be very careful with the stratification, for example Toyota Camrys don't get crashed like Mustangs, simply because of demographics. The Esprit had a fantastic reliability record in the USA, every one got smashed up in the first year of ownership and then took six months to fix. Our one year warranty figures were great.

Camry drivers these days are retired Volvo drivers. And renter drivers. Mechanised transport, boring, slow, dont handle dont stop very well. And not that economical either. But are reputedly reliable,, just like the VW beetle was :lol: . Actually better than a beetle as they dont catch fire very often. And are far quieter. 



#132 saudoso

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:51

1+ Billion settlement in the US of A.

 

 



#133 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:55

1+ Billion settlement in the US of A.

But it was the floor mats, that is still the line.

Toymota or the investigators have never actually verbalised the problem.top secret!



#134 Amaroo Park

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 07:39

The new recall on the Hilux with the air bag clock springs is a beaut



#135 Catalina Park

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 19:44

The new recall on the Hilux with the air bag clock springs is a beaut

What's the gossip?