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Magnussen or Perez - who would you choose for 2014?


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Poll: McLaren Driver Line Up 2014 (368 member(s) have cast votes)

Who would you pick?

  1. Perez (113 votes [30.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.79%

  2. Magnussen (224 votes [61.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.04%

  3. Don't know (30 votes [8.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.17%

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#101 Peter Perfect

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:28

...

 

What is interesting in that context to me: in previous years, one could read at Autosport almost every week a comment from someone at McLaren, but this year things are strangely mute. What gives? Can't be lack of success only? So I think there is more to it, than a simple decision on Magnusson vs Perez.

 

....

 

Yep, I'd noticed that and others have mentioned it. McLaren stories/comments are still out there and have been published by other websites but it just seems that autosport for whatever reason have decided to ignore them this year, not just in news stories but in practice/race reports too.



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#102 ensign14

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:07

Exactly. Which is why I don't fathom those who say 'give him time'. If he is retained for next season he will be in his 4th full season, same as Hulkenberg, more than Grosjean and Ricciardo. He has scored 3 podium finishes in his career but hasn't come anywhere near those performances since (and that's even taking the poor McLaren into account)... so as each race passes those results become more and more anomalous until it gets to the point where you have to wonder just what part Perez had in those results at all, or whether another driver would've done even better with the strategies Sauber had on those days.

 

Nigel Mansell had three podia in his first three seasons, in a decent car - I think he turned out OK.  Mika Hakkinen needed four seasons at McLaren to score his first win.

 

Perez has nothing like the experience of those two. 



#103 Multi21SebMulti21

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:45

I see no justification for putting Magnussen in over Perez for next year. McLaren need decent feedback on their car to get back to winning ways and not "Ohhhh this is certainly a step up from what I'm use to!!! :drunk:"

 

They should take their time with Magnussen. Prepare him to replace Jenson Button, when he finally wants to call time on moaning about the car over the radio all weekend, every weekend.



#104 Jamiednm

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:57

It's not fair to judge Perez on his first season in a new team which have produced and struggled with an awful car all season. 2014 is likely to be a transitional season for McLaren, so there is no point in going for an unproven guy, no matter what his potential is. They should hammer their nail to the mast and back both of their current drivers 100% for 2014 and then reassess things for their big change in 2015 when Honda come in.



#105 rhukkas

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:15

I'd put out a load of stories about Magnussan so Perez's sponsors might pay out a tiny bit more...



#106 Coops3

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:28

I say take a gamble on Magnussen. They can always get rid mid-season if he's not performing.



#107 Clatter

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:36

Nigel Mansell had three podia in his first three seasons, in a decent car - I think he turned out OK.  Mika Hakkinen needed four seasons at McLaren to score his first win.

 

Perez has nothing like the experience of those two. 

Define what you mean by experience.

 

SP has 56 starts to his name so far in 3 seasons. After 4 seasons MH had 51, NM had 44 starts after 4 seasons although they did have the advantage of being able to test.

 

I think SP should be given another season with Mac, but how long does a driver get to keep their rookie label for these days?



#108 selespeed

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:48

perez doesn't need experience...he needs a good car not a crap like mclaren was this year...he finished his first race in the points and posted fastest laps during the race.



#109 GhostR

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:55

Maybe by McLaren. Not necessarily by me!

 

Also by Red Bull, who've shown a very strong preference for placing their juniors in FR3.5. Partly due to it being cheaper, and partly due to the level of competition being at least as good - arguably better, especially with multiple F1 teams looking to place juniors there. 

 

The costs involved in GP2 has increasingly made it a playground for richer pay drivers. Drivers looking to secure seats on talent alone can't.

 

If I was running an F1 team that needed a good driver who also brings some cash then I'd look at GP2 and grab the best performing driver with sufficient cash. If I was running a top-end F1 team that already has enough cash, I'd look at FR3.5 at and take the driver with the best results.

 

Edit:

 

Forgot to add that my choice would be Magnussen. Perez hasn't done enough this year. IMO Button is only world class when he's got a good car underneath him. He struggles with a bad car. McLaren's produced a dog this year, and I suspect Button's career has been saved by two factors: 1. Hamilton left the team (HAM knows how to get the best out of a bad car) and 2. Perez has struggled just as much, if not more, than Button.

 

Which is why I think Perez should be moved aside (back to Sauber if that can work out). He's struggled to match (let alone beat) Button this year, and IMO neither driver has maximised the potential of that McLaren (because Button has a history of being slow in a bad car, and Perez has done worse than Button). McLaren should keep Button as a benchmark / mentor and (unless they can place him elsewhere) bring in Magnussen to give him a year to build up before the Honda engines arrive. If they can place Magnussen elsewhere (Marussia or FIndia), then I think they're stupid to not take Hulk.


Edited by GhostR, 07 November 2013 - 13:02.


#110 Treads

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 13:50

 

Forgot to add that my choice would be Magnussen. Perez hasn't done enough this year. IMO Button is only world class when he's got a good car underneath him. He struggles with a bad car. McLaren's produced a dog this year, and I suspect Button's career has been saved by two factors: 1. Hamilton left the team (HAM knows how to get the best out of a bad car) and 2. Perez has struggled just as much, if not more, than Button.

 

Which is why I think Perez should be moved aside (back to Sauber if that can work out). He's struggled to match (let alone beat) Button this year, and IMO neither driver has maximised the potential of that McLaren (because Button has a history of being slow in a bad car, and Perez has done worse than Button). McLaren should keep Button as a benchmark / mentor and (unless they can place him elsewhere) bring in Magnussen to give him a year to build up before the Honda engines arrive. If they can place Magnussen elsewhere (Marussia or FIndia), then I think they're stupid to not take Hulk.

 

Frankly speaking, who here believes Perez is as good as Hulk? Probably no one. And on the basis of trying to get the best driver, you would then take Hulk out of everyone on the grid. 12 months ago it wasn't clear to me that Hulk was better than Perez, now it is abundantly clear.  

 

So why wouldn't Mac take Hulk? 

1. Money - maybe Hulk salary >>> Perez salary - related sponsorship;

2. Maybe they want a one-year deal - if they are trying to sign Alonso in 2015 - and Hulk wants a multi-year contract; 

3. Size - shouldn't be relevant as he is same size and JB. 

 

I really don't know why Hulk was never connected to McLaren. Anyone, apologies mods, me talking about Hulk constantly is probably a long way off topic. 



#111 Britophile

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 13:54

Nigel Mansell had three podia in his first three seasons, in a decent car - I think he turned out OK.  Mika Hakkinen needed four seasons at McLaren to score his first win.

 

Perez has nothing like the experience of those two. 

 

If regarding Mansell you mean the FW10 from 1985 "a decent car", I beg to differ. Mansell had the Lotus 95T at his disposal in 1984 which was quite a decent car as it was third in the WCC. Had it not been for Mansell's mistake in Monaco that year he could have scored his maiden victory there. In 1985 Mansell was totally outclassed by Rosberg and only started to get the upper hand over him when in Austria Rosberg announced that he would leave Williams at the end of that year to be partnered with Prost at McLaren for 1986. From then on Rosberg felt he was given inferior equipment from Honda and it is a serious accusation as firstly, he never ever was a driver looking for excuses when he got beaten and secondly, Honda indeed had this tendency to favour drivers over their teammates. The same happened in 1987 when they favoured Piquet over Mansell, or in 1989 when they favoured Senna over Prost.

 

Anyway, back to Mansell and his 1985 campaign, even in the two races won by him at the end of the year, Rosberg was arguably the faster Williams driver. But in Brands Hatch Rosberg was spun by Senna and lost a full lap - only to unlap himself and storm back to third! In Kyalami he was again the fastest of the field but spun off on the oil puddle Ghinzani left at Crowthorne. Even Mansell admitted he was lucky to see Rosberg spinning off just in front of him as it gave him the time to take evasive action. Rosberg lost a lot of time and had to have an extra pit stop which left him nearly 50 seconds behind Mansell just a handful of laps before the end of the race. Still Rosberg charged his way back up on Mansell and finished just 7 seconds behind him. Mansell only became the great champion the world came to know and to adore in 1986, before that he was average, error-prone and outshone not only by Rosberg but by de Angelis too.

 

Regarding Häkkinen, don't forget that the man survived a near fatal accident at the end of 1995 and also that he had to retire through no fault of his own while in front on numerous occasions before finally winning a GP at Jerez in the end of 1997. In that year alone Häkkinen retired while leading the British, the Luxembourg and the Austrian Grands Prix! Had it not been for his misfortune he could have scored four victories that year.

 

So I think comparing Pérez to the aforementioned two great champions is erroneous. As sad as it makes me to say this but next to Michael Andretti, Checo is the worst McLaren driver in the past 30 years of the team.


Edited by Britophile, 07 November 2013 - 19:13.


#112 ensign14

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 14:14

Define what you mean by experience.

 

It only makes sense to talk of experience in terms of seasons, as everyone accumulates experience at the same rate.  In F1 terms, Mansell at the start of 1985 was relatively in the same position as Perez will be at the start of 2015.

 

 

If regarding Mansell you mean the FW10 from 1985 "a decent car", I beg to differ.

 

No, I was thinking of the Loti Mansell had in 1981-3.  OK, the first half of 1983 was a waste of time, but otherwise there were two and a half years of occasional race-winning pace. 

 

And as for Perez being the worst McLaren driver, I think you're forgetting a good few drivers that they had since Dennis took over; de Cesaris, de la Rosa, Alliot, and, perhaps relevant to the current debate, Jan Magnussen...



#113 Britophile

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 14:38

And as for Perez being the worst McLaren driver, I think you're forgetting a good few drivers that they had since Dennis took over; de Cesaris, de la Rosa, Alliot, and, perhaps relevant to the current debate, Jan Magnussen...

 

De Cesaris was racing for them back i 1981 and I wrote that next to Andretti, Pérez is the worst from the past 30 years of the team.

 

De la Rosa managed to score a 2nd place finish in 2006 with that off-pace McLaren with which even Räikkönen couldn't win a single GP. But aside from that, de la Rosa, Alliot and Magnussen were never full time drivers for at least a year like Pérez, only substitutes for a short while. De la Rosa raced for them for a total of nine races in two years, Magnussen and Alliot drove for one race each. Very erroneous to compare them and their chances to that what was given to Checo.



#114 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 14:58

De Cesaris was racing for them back i 1981 and I wrote that next to Andretti, Pérez is the worst from the past 30 years of the team.

 

De la Rosa managed to score a 2nd place finish in 2006 with that off-pace McLaren with which even Räikkönen couldn't win a single GP. But aside from that, de la Rosa, Alliot and Magnussen were never full time drivers for at least a year like Pérez, only substitutes for a short while. De la Rosa raced for them for a total of nine races in two years, Magnussen and Alliot drove for one race each. Very erroneous to compare them and their chances to that what was given to Checo.

Let's not beat the Michael Andretti dead horse again. For better or worse he didn't get a far shake at F1. Period. A 3rd at Monza isn't too bad for a rookie in a shity car.



#115 JHSingo

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:03

I'd take both and axe Button.

 

Sign Vandoorne as the third driver too.



#116 Britophile

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:06

Let's not beat the Michael Andretti dead horse again. For better or worse he didn't get a far shake at F1. Period. A 3rd at Monza isn't too bad for a rookie in a shity car.

 

Andretti was a mediocre driver and a joke in comparison to Senna. Period. Häkkinen after sitting on the sideline for almost a full year because of Andretti outqualified the Brazilian straight away in Portugal and was 32 thousands of a second shy to do so again the next race in Japan where he finished third. Mind you it was the same "shitty car" that Andretti had at his disposal for almost the full season and did absolutely nothing with it. What does that make Häkkinen in your view if Andretti wasn't "too bad for a rookie" then?



#117 ensign14

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:09

But aside from that, de la Rosa, Alliot and Magnussen were never full time drivers for at least a year like Pérez, only substitutes for a short while. De la Rosa raced for them for a total of nine races in two years, Magnussen and Alliot drove for one race each. Very erroneous to compare them and their chances to that what was given to Checo.

 

OK, in which case I give you Mark Blundell.  Checo's chance at McLaren was in their worst car in recent years, and his best result in it is as good as his world champion team-mate's; compare that with Stefan Johansson or, indeed, Keke Rosberg.  Perez is surely more likely to improve in future than Button. 



#118 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:22

Andretti was a mediocre driver and a joke in comparison to Senna. Period. Häkkinen after sitting on the sideline for almost a full year because of Andretti outqualified the Brazilian straight away in Portugal and was 32 thousands of a second shy to do so again the next race in Japan where he finished third. Mind you it was the same "shitty car" that Andretti had at his disposal for almost the full season and did absolutely nothing with it. What does that make Häkkinen in your view if Andretti wasn't "too bad for a rookie" then?

Mika is a deserving 2 time WDC, and was a driver I rooted for to give MSC a run. He also had F1 experience before Mike Andretti. My point was for only having 13 races under his belt, and have podium as a rookie , in that car, that's not to shabby. I'm not going to defend his or McLarens overall commitment.His driving ability would have translatted to success given proper time. IMO



#119 Britophile

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:38

OK, in which case I give you Mark Blundell.  Checo's chance at McLaren was in their worst car in recent years, and his best result in it is as good as his world champion team-mate's; compare that with Stefan Johansson or, indeed, Keke Rosberg.  Perez is surely more likely to improve in future than Button. 

 

Blundell was able to score points constantly, after Spa he was ahead of Häkkinen in the standings and scored almost half of the total WCC points the team got that year. At which point was Checo ahead of Button in the standings? He so far scored 38% of the points of the team and even this figure only comes after very unlucky back-to-back races for Button wehere he got rammed into right in the first lap hence was denied to score any points. Before these races Checo's contribution to the team's points tally was 27.7%.

 

Keke Rosberg was 38 years old in 1986 and he had to drive the MP4/2C which was indeed designed to be driven by Prost and Lauda. These two loved understeering cars, Rosberg hated them as he was a charger with a liking for oversteer. He had fierce arguments throughout the year with McLaren chief designer John Barnard who kept refusing to set the car up to Rosberg's liking, saying "look at Alain, he wins with the car as is so there's nothing wrong with it". Even with these circumstances, Rosberg was ahead of Prost by pure speed in Italy, Germany, Canada and Australia until he was forced to retire with technical problems. In Monaco he started from 9th on the grid and managed to finish a magnificent 2nd, passing Mansell, Senna, Alboreto, Patrese and Berger on the way on a track where overtaking is supposed to be next to impossible.



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#120 SophieB

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:42

The question of who was McLaren's most disappointing driver is pretty interesting but it's starting to get us away from answering the poll question of whether McLaren should keep Perez or go for Magnussen. Back on topic, please folks.



#121 ensign14

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 15:51

Blundell was able to score points constantly, after Spa he was ahead of Häkkinen in the standings and scored almost half of the total WCC points the team got that year. At which point was Checo ahead of Button in the standings? He so far scored 38% of the points of the team and even this figure only comes after very unlucky back-to-back races for Button wehere he got rammed into right in the first lap hence was denied to score any points. Before these races Checo's contribution to the team's points tally was 27.7%.

 

Strange, there's always an excuse for Button, Rosberg &c, even Blundell, but none applicable for a 23 year old in his first year with the team.



#122 Britophile

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 16:00

Strange, there's always an excuse for Button, Rosberg &c, even Blundell, but none applicable for a 23 year old in his first year with the team.

 

Well Button, Rosberg and Blundell never kept making mistakes and blamed them on others arrogantly afterwards, ever. And the things I mentioned were not excuses but detailed explanations as to why comparing aforementioned drivers to Checo is erroneous. 

 

I think Checo's main problem is his attitude rather than anything else. People would go easier on him if he would lose the cocky attitude. Magnussen on the other hand apart from being very fast is a genuinely humble youngster with a strong will to learn and to develop as a driver. He is definitely the better option for McLaren.


Edited by Britophile, 07 November 2013 - 17:25.


#123 Treads

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 17:31

Well Button, Rosberg and Blundell never kept making mistakes and blamed them on others arrogantly afterwards, ever. And the things I mentioned were not excuses but detailed explanations as to why comparing aforementioned drivers to Checo is erroneous. 

 

I think Checo's main problem is his attitude rather than anything else. People would go easier on him if he would lose the cocky attitude. Magnussen on the other hand apart from being very fast is a genuinely humble youngster with a strong will to learn and to develop as a driver. He is definitely the better option for McLaren.

 

You seem like an F1 encyclopaedia Mr Britophile! I am enjoying reading your posts even if some of them are off topic. 

 

I don't disagree over your conclusion that Magnussen is a better choice, your reasoning is a bit flawed. That Perez is cocky is not a good reason to ditch him; the reason to ditch him is that he is not that fast. That Magnussen in humble is also not that relevant as there are plenty of non-humble drivers who are very fast (almost all, in fact). Regarding the will to learn & develop, despite being cocky I expect that Perez has that too. 

 

Or are you arguing that Perez isn't learning because he is too cocky and thinks he is there already? I just don't buy that because he can't really reach that conclusion based on being way behind JB...



#124 Britophile

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 18:00

You seem like an F1 encyclopaedia Mr Britophile! I am enjoying reading your posts even if some of them are off topic. 

 

I don't disagree over your conclusion that Magnussen is a better choice, your reasoning is a bit flawed. That Perez is cocky is not a good reason to ditch him; the reason to ditch him is that he is not that fast. That Magnussen in humble is also not that relevant as there are plenty of non-humble drivers who are very fast (almost all, in fact). Regarding the will to learn & develop, despite being cocky I expect that Perez has that too. 

 

Or are you arguing that Perez isn't learning because he is too cocky and thinks he is there already? I just don't buy that because he can't really reach that conclusion based on being way behind JB...

 

Thank you Treads for your kind words :)

 

Yes, what I meant was that Pérez is not on that ideal learning curve I wanted to see from him. That's why I pointed out that I see the eagerness to learn in Magnussen. In comparison I remember during the winter Checo kept saying how he wanted to win right in Australia already and his aim was no less than winning the title. While I appreciate the ambition of young drivers, soon afterwards it turned out his first job in Woking would be to hit the gym as he was physically no match to Button. Then early in the season he started to go on a rampage on a race by race basis and to make matters worst he kept blaming others for his incidents and contacts. He wasn't that slow. His problem was that when he pushed hard and drove fast (because at times he really did), he was painfully error-prone. Watching him go fast always felt like an accident waiting to happen. Fast forward to recent weeks and he talks about how he knows that he hadn't done a good enough job. Well, nothing happens without a reason - had he had a more humble approach, he would have learnt from his mistakes and would have matured as a driver and as a person. He would have implemented the experiences and would have worked on how to be fast without ending up having a crash. But he didn't so now he's crying over spilt milk.

 

That's not an excuse either that the MP4/28 is indeed a dog of a car. Just look at Hülkenberg - he clearly made a step backwards by signing from Force India to Sauber. Still he has done a brilliant job this year and as a result he is duly on his way to land a seat at Lotus. Checo had every opportunity to make the most out of what he was given and I firmly believe that he did that not.

I say he had his shot at Macca - and now it's high time to give Magnussen his one.


Edited by Britophile, 07 November 2013 - 18:01.


#125 JHSingo

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 20:15

Here's a radical thought: instead of axing Perez, why doesn't McLaren...I don't know...build a better car?

 

I don't think it is entirely fair to judge Perez on this year, given the equipment he has been landed with. Also, I'm probably in the minority who believes Perez has been doing a pretty decent job all things considered this season. A certain 2009 World Champion (who appears to be Mr first-lap-incident at the moment) has hardly been blowing him into the weeds, despite him being vastly more experienced. In fact, they've been pretty evenly matched in terms of pace, especially over the second half of this season.

 

Does Perez have championship winning potential? At this moment in his career, I'd say no. But has he been nearly as bad as a lot of people are making him out to be? Not in the slightest.

 

Like I said earlier, put Button out to pasture, bring in Magnussen, sign Vandoorne into a third driver role (or get him a ride at Force India), and the team's future is looking pretty good.


Edited by JHSingo, 07 November 2013 - 20:15.


#126 mp4x

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 20:22

perez doesn't need experience...he needs a good car not a crap like mclaren was this year...he finished his first race in the points and posted fastest laps during the race.

Even when McLaren produced a crap car (MP4-24) and was slower than this year in the opening race back in 2009 Hamilton managed to finish on the podium and after that was disqualified; everybody knows Melbourne isn't a usual race. It was the ultimate lap of the race in Sepang on fresh primes that Perez posted the fastest lap because they’d changed his tires the lap before.


#127 Collective

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 20:44

Here's a radical thought: instead of axing Perez, why doesn't McLaren...I don't know...build a better car?

 

Why? The car is perfect. Fantastic, actually. It is so good that it gives management license to bad mouth a current team driver and pursue Fernando Alonso. THAT GOOD!


Edited by Collective, 07 November 2013 - 20:44.


#128 ensign14

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 21:18

Then early in the season he started to go on a rampage on a race by race basis and to make matters worst he kept blaming others for his incidents and contacts. He wasn't that slow. His problem was that when he pushed hard and drove fast (because at times he really did), he was painfully error-prone. Watching him go fast always felt like an accident waiting to happen.

 

Easier to slow a fast driver down than speed a slow one up.  Perez may be another de Cesaris - or he may be a Scheckter.  And there may be some staff at Woking who still remember when McLaren didn't keep hold of their wild Springbok...



#129 pathogen

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 21:25

The question of who was McLaren's most disappointing driver is pretty interesting but it's starting to get us away from answering the poll question of whether McLaren should keep Perez or go for Magnussen. Back on topic, please folks.

And the poll answer is clear: let's kill Perez and bring any driver… even Magnussen! Now is clear for me, Perez should leave this Team as soon as posible and rebuild his future. McLaren and McLaren fans doesn't want a mexican driver as a part of the ‘team’. A real shame.



#130 selespeed

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 21:39

 

Even when McLaren produced a crap car (MP4-24) and was slower than this year in the opening race back in 2009 Hamilton managed to finish on the podium and after that was disqualified; everybody knows Melbourne isn't a usual race. It was the ultimate lap of the race in Sepang on fresh primes that Perez posted the fastest lap because they’d changed his tires the lap before.

 

 

i was talking about his first race in f1...



#131 ATM

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 21:40

 

 

Perez should leave this Team as soon as posible and rebuild his future

 

Rebuilding one's future is easier said than done. 

 

The Ferrari link is pretty much broken, and usually a decent driver gets only one shot at a good team (and sometimes, not even that - look at Di Resta, Kobayashi,).  The second shot comes only if he really has shown some strong results. Going to a midfield team would very likely make him " one of the rest" and probably kill for good his F1 career (see Kovalainen, Liuzzi, Sato). Well, unless he gets a seat in a surprise team which would behave like RBR or Brawn did in 2009 - but what are the chances of that? 


Edited by ATM, 07 November 2013 - 21:41.


#132 Owen

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 21:43

These two articles seem to paint a dim view of Checo's prospects at McLaren... I have to say they may have changed my mind. This is a difficult choice mind.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...la-one/24844304
http://www.planetf1....s-gain-momentum

Edited by Owen, 07 November 2013 - 21:56.


#133 senna da silva

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 21:52

McLaren should stick with Checo. Experience will count in 2014 and the new rules, unless McLaren are only looking towards 2015 and getting the rookie some experience for that campaign.



#134 Longtimefan

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 22:14

I'd give Perez the boot.

 

I shook my head in disbelief when he was announced for McLaren and expected him to be poor but he's been beyond that.

 

Let him go.



#135 SonJR

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 22:49

Voted Magnussen. Like earlier posters indicated, no point in keeping Pérez around when they clearly don't have faith in. And knowing McLaren, they've been very meticulous in assessing him.

 

Aside from his disappointing results - which are in part due to bad luck, in part due to bad driving and in part down to the bad car - I think McLaren are mostly unimpressed with how he's fared against Button. I reckon McLaren know what they have with Button: a driver who doesn't have that last bit of ultimate pace and can't really wring a car's neck if it isn't to his liking, but a driver who at the same time has 3 to 4 brilliant weekends a year and is dependable and solid in the rest of the races, save for the 3 to 4 in which he really struggles.

 

I actually rather like Button, but that Pérez hasn't been able to match someone like that, doesn't bode well for him. From what I've read they're quite unimpressed with Pérez' qualifying as well. Although he only trails Button 8 to 9, McLaren reportedly think he should've one better because they don't rate Button as a strong qualifier.



#136 ardbeg

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 22:53

Was baffled that Kevins management pulled him out of that GP2 test. Unless they had another GP2 test lined up, it sounds like a career killing move. What he has done so far, impressive as it is, it is not enough to bump anyone from a McLaren seat.



#137 Disgrace

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 23:16

Was baffled that Kevins management pulled him out of that GP2 test. Unless they had another GP2 test lined up, it sounds like a career killing move. What he has done so far, impressive as it is, it is not enough to bump anyone from a McLaren seat.

 

Not at all, so long as he can drive Formula 1 cars regularly next year during practice. I think the development of Bottas has shown that it's an equally valid route of progression. I can't see this happening in a McLaren though.



#138 ardbeg

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 00:35

I doubt that the GP2 test would have killed his chances of testing F1 next year. It probably make it very difficult for him to do anything else than F1 though, it seems me. Actually, only valid reason I can imagine is that he is already set to replace Perez. Decisions has been made.



#139 William Hunt

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:24

I think Magnussen should have tested that DAMS GP2 car



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#140 pathogen

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:13

Rebuilding one's future is easier said than done. 

 

The Ferrari link is pretty much broken, and usually a decent driver gets only one shot at a good team (and sometimes, not even that - look at Di Resta, Kobayashi,).  The second shot comes only if he really has shown some strong results. Going to a midfield team would very likely make him " one of the rest" and probably kill for good his F1 career (see Kovalainen, Liuzzi, Sato). Well, unless he gets a seat in a surprise team which would behave like RBR or Brawn did in 2009 - but what are the chances of that? 

Agree but let me insist, Perez should leave this team asap, there is no place for him. IMO this is more a political issue with a nasty british press and their followers pushing to fire Perez. And to be honest equity wise mexican driver is off character with the McLaren profile. My point of view.



#141 f1rules

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:08

Well in danish newspapers mw has been very vocal, saying they want to get kevin a seat for next year, not necessary their own although, mw even had a surprise show up in denmark when kevins family held a surprise party for him in the small city of roskilde. I really think kevin would be a good choice, he is nothing like his father - former stewart f1 driver, he is much much better, much more mature. Actually kevin reminds me mostly of vettel. Humble, simple with extreme eager to win and learn. Im Especially impressed how kevin handled loosing a clear victory and hence championship on a technicality judgement. One weekend later he told his team ok this was disapointing not to get the championship already but now we go racing and move on and he totally destroyed everyone after, and dominantly won the championship.

Since 2014 is a transistion year anyway, with a lot less preassure to perform, i say go for him. 


Edited by f1rules, 08 November 2013 - 07:11.


#142 SophieB

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:24

Agree but let me insist, Perez should leave this team asap, there is no place for him. IMO this is more a political issue with a nasty british press and their followers pushing to fire Perez. And to be honest equity wise mexican driver is off character with the McLaren profile. My point of view.

  

And the poll answer is clear: let's kill Perez and bring any driver… even Magnussen! Now is clear for me, Perez should leave this Team as soon as posible and rebuild his future. McLaren and McLaren fans doesn't want a mexican driver as a part of the ‘team’. A real shame.


It's not extending Magnussen much credit to refer to him as "any driver", is it? Those that want him want him for pretty much the same reasons they once wanted Perez - a sense of potential, the possibility of unearthing a new Lewis. (Many of course also would have preferred Hulk last year to Perez.)

And I think the British press would indeed VERY much like to see Perez sacked, but not because they hate Mexicans or whatever. No, if Perez is sacked, that's a big story in what is now a very quiet season as the championships are now settled. They would get to write all about the fallout, do analysis about what McLaren have done, do pieces on whether drivers get enough of a chance, write about what next for Perez and do big profile pieces on the new driver. If McLaren announce they are keeping Perez, it's one small announcement about business as usual.

As to Macca not giving Mexicans fair treatment, I cannot imagine what you are basing your opinion on. I imagine they'd find the suggestion insulting and offensive.

#143 Treads

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 09:45

And the poll answer is clear: let's kill Perez and bring any driver… even Magnussen! Now is clear for me, Perez should leave this Team as soon as posible and rebuild his future. McLaren and McLaren fans doesn't want a mexican driver as a part of the ‘team’. A real shame.

 

The poll is clear that Magnussen is preferred to Perez... whatever reasons are behind that are open to debate, obviously, which we have been doing. 

 

But to state  "McLaren and McLaren fans doesn't want a mexican driver as a part of the ‘team’"  as you do is really offensive to me as a McLaren fan, you are suggesting the feelings are based on racial factors and quite honestly I don't think McLaren or their fans give a rat's ass what nationality Perez is, they care about how fast he is. 

 

So honestly you are wayyyyyy of the mark here. 



#144 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:00

Agree but let me insist, Perez should leave this team asap, there is no place for him. IMO this is more a political issue with a nasty british press and their followers pushing to fire Perez. And to be honest equity wise mexican driver is off character with the McLaren profile. My point of view.

I don't think you've made a convincing case that Perez is worth keeping.  Why do you think Perez is a great talent which any team would be wise to employ?  I voted that I don't know what McLaren should do, because Perez has both struggled to keep up with with Button and was reckless in his approach in the early part of the season.  However, I do think he has the excuse that he is new to the team and that perhaps he should be given 2014 as a make-or-break.

 

Agree with Treads above too.  You are wide of the mark in your criticism.  The question is less about whether he is Mexican and much more about whether he can move the team forwards.



#145 Group B

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:56

Perez. What is the point of signing a 22 year-old and then not giving him time to improve? It's not like he's been miles off the pace. Perez should be considered a long-term investment, there is absolutely no reason to believe he won't get better with every passing year.

 

This is in contrast to Button, who is approaching the end of his career. Mclaren should give Magnussen a year in GP2, perhaps another in a rear-grid F1 team, and if he impresses then they should look to move Button, 35 by then, towards the exit. They're only going to have to replace him in a few years anyway.

 

Yeh, I really don't see that Perez has been 'that' bad; he's often matched or outpaced JB but just needs more consistency and wisdom.



#146 Britophile

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:58

The poll is clear that Magnussen is preferred to Perez... whatever reasons are behind that are open to debate, obviously, which we have been doing. 

 

But to state  "McLaren and McLaren fans doesn't want a mexican driver as a part of the ‘team’"  as you do is really offensive to me as a McLaren fan, you are suggesting the feelings are based on racial factors and quite honestly I don't think McLaren or their fans give a rat's ass what nationality Perez is, they care about how fast he is. 

 

So honestly you are wayyyyyy of the mark here. 

 

As a fellow Macca fan, I must admit it is obvious that team and their fans are keen on judging drivers based on their nationalities. After all the team's first WDC was a Brazilian, their most popular and most celebrated champion was also a Brazilian. Oh wait ... :)



#147 Britophile

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:08

Yeh, I really don't see that Perez has been 'that' bad; he's often matched or outpaced JB but just needs more consistency and wisdom.

 

So much easier said than done. The points tally suggests that Checo has indeed done a job not good enough. Even with his teammate's immense misfortune in the past two races, Checo barely scored half the points that JB has. Being faster in some phases of a race due to traffic, tyre wear and strategy only to screw it up later on in my book does not translate to "often matched or outpaced". The only race he really impressed me (not with his dirty driving tactics of course but with the pace he showed there) was Bahrain. But in general it seems to me that even he himself feels he has been beaten pretty soundly and consistently throughout the season by a perceptibly unmotivated JB. Had they had better equipment at their disposal this year I think their gap in points would be even greater than it already is.



#148 Arn

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:13

These two articles seem to paint a dim view of Checo's prospects at McLaren... I have to say they may have changed my mind. This is a difficult choice mind.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...la-one/24844304
http://www.planetf1....s-gain-momentum

From the BBC article:

 

McLaren have been impressed by Magnussen's pace and maturity.

He has been showing greater speed than Perez in the team's advanced simulator and has been put in striking performances in his two tests with the team, in Abu Dhabi last November and at Silverstone in July.

Whitmarsh described Magnussen as "lightning quick" at the Korean Grand Prix last month, adding: "Kevin has had two runs in an F1 car. In Abu Dhabi on his third flying lap, he did a time that was good enough for sixth on the grid, which is pretty impressive."

If that is true then I think it sadly only comes down to finances.

Kevin would be the obvious choice based on the speed he is already showing and the huge potential for improvement.

It's also funny that Button would prefer to have Perez.



#149 noikeee

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:16

I'd give Perez the boot.

 

I shook my head in disbelief when he was announced for McLaren and expected him to be poor but he's been beyond that.

 

Let him go.

 

Beyond poor? Wow.

 

So being a tenth or two below Button's pace in most races, matching or slightly beating Button's pace in a few, and throwing a away a handful of points in some incidents, is enough to render his performance "beyond poor"?

 

Don't get me wrong I don't think Button's the ultimate benchmark, and I don't think Pérez is the superstar McLaren are looking for, but he's not done a "beyond poor" job. I think he's done a bit better than what Kovalainen did at McLaren, for example. Considering car differences. And given a fair share of the points defficit to Button is due to over-agressiveness, that can be trained and recovered in further seasons. In my opinion Pérez has the potential to be a pretty good #2, possibly Coulthard/Barrichello/Webber level. With the slightly unusual trait of his speciality being tyre management, whereas those guys were different drivers, relentlessly quick at their peak (which Pérez isn't capable of IMO), but never consistent enough to keep that peak for over a race or 2 (I think Pérez is slightly more consistent).

 

Unfortunately McLaren were expecting to grow him into a #1, hence the disappointment. Magnussen could still be that #1, but I don't think throwing him head-on into the shark tank and expecting him to swim right away is the answer.



#150 Arn

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:19

Yeh, I really don't see that Perez has been 'that' bad; he's often matched or outpaced JB but just needs more consistency and wisdom.

I guess they just don't rate Button that highly. Hence why they supposedly also don't want to give him a multi year contract.