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Magnussen or Perez - who would you choose for 2014?


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Poll: McLaren Driver Line Up 2014 (368 member(s) have cast votes)

Who would you pick?

  1. Perez (113 votes [30.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.79%

  2. Magnussen (224 votes [61.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.04%

  3. Don't know (30 votes [8.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.17%

Vote

#151 Nobody

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:21

I expect Perez to be confirmed at COTA, with Magnussen as official Test driver.

 

Anything else would be a big move imo



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#152 Group B

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:28

So much easier said than done. The points tally suggests that Checo has indeed done a job not good enough. Even with his teammate's immense misfortune in the past two races, Checo barely scored half the points that JB has. Being faster in some phases of a race due to traffic, tyre wear and strategy only to screw it up later on in my book does not translate to "often matched or outpaced". The only race he really impressed me (not with his dirty driving tactics of course but with the pace he showed there) was Bahrain. But in general it seems to me that even he himself feels he has been beaten pretty soundly and consistently throughout the season by a perceptibly unmotivated JB. Had they had better equipment at their disposal this year I think their gap in points would be even greater than it already is.

 

So I assume you think JB should go too, if the moment he doesn't have a top car he sulks and underperforms all season. :eek:



#153 Group B

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:31

I guess they just don't rate Button that highly. Hence why they supposedly also don't want to give him a multi year contract.

 

I suspect you're right; they know JB is very good but not brilliant, and his best years are most likely behind him. I can see their reasons for keeping him, but SP & KM might just be the better long term bet.



#154 Lazy

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:35

So I assume you think JB should go too, if the moment he doesn't have a top car he sulks and underperforms all season. :eek:

Nice Strawman.



#155 Britophile

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:50

So I assume you think JB should go too, if the moment he doesn't have a top car he sulks and underperforms all season. :eek:

 

Except I don't think he underperformed this year. He is clearly dissapointed with the MP4/28, yes. But nevertheless he still has been beating Pérez badly. The team cost him some 10 points in Malaysia, the last two races he git rammed into right after the start and was denied to score any points as a result. Unlike his teammate he never lost not a single point through his own doing this year. And just look at how he drove 44 laps on primes in Abu Dhabi. Stunning performance, just imagine how would Button fare if he had a decent car. I reckon the new regulations will fit his driving style perfectly and those who think he didn't deliver this year will be in for a surprise.



#156 Group B

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:55

Nice Strawman.

 

Hardly. Britophile chose to slate Perez while at the same time championing a man that he himself said has a crap attidude. Sounds rather like he's in danger of living up to his moniker. McLaren have a tricky task ultimately, because all three of them have pros and cons.



#157 Lazy

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:07

Very tricky decision for McLaren, especially if they are trying to get Alonso. If I was them I'd want Fred and JB as the ideal line up as they are both top drivers (JB is as good as anyone in a good car and you need a good car to win), and they are both intelligent, experienced drivers which will be important with the very technical approach required with the new regs, and you can be pretty sure of a harmonious team.

 

Alonso and Magnussen could get very messy, we remember 2007, and it may even put Fred off from signing at all.

 

So you wouldn't want to sign Magnussen only to replace him with Fred next year in addition to which it would be sensible to put him with a smaller team to get some experience.

 

So, in conclusion, I would keep Checo for next year and then, assuming he doesn't perform miracles next year, replace him with Fred for 2015. Put Magnussen with a smaller team to prepare him for when JB or Fred move on.



#158 Group B

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:08

Except I don't think he underperformed this year. He is clearly dissapointed with the MP4/28, yes. But nevertheless he still has been beating Pérez badly. The team cost him some 10 points in Malaysia, the last two races he git rammed into right after the start and was denied to score any points as a result. Unlike his teammate he never lost not a single point through his own doing this year. And just look at how he drove 44 laps on primes in Abu Dhabi. Stunning performance, just imagine how would Button fare if he had a decent car. I reckon the new regulations will fit his driving style perfectly and those who think he didn't deliver this year will be in for a surprise.

 

You were patently implying that he underperformed when you said "Perez has been beaten pretty soundly and consistently throughout the season by a perceptibly unmotivated JB." There was no point adding if you weren't suggesting it relevant.

 

As for JB in a decent car, we don't need to imagine anything since we all saw his season in the Brawn. That still doesn't make him a god however.
 



#159 DCult

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:09

This is the first year since 1996 that I didn't bother reading McLaren news and didn't pay attention to what they were doing in the races. Obviously since last years failure was the last straw for me as a McLaren fan, I supported Lewis Hamilton this year and will continue to do so in the future.

But if McLaren sign Magnussen and perhaps someone like Alonso at the end of next year I will start paying attention again and support them too, although I hate Alonso's personality. If McLaren are actually trying to sign him, it means that despite his behavior in 2007 he is highly regarded within the team, so I guess they know something. I don't dislike Button, he's an above average driver, but I hate the way he managed to gain support from the management at the expence of his teammate who was a better bet for the championship last year, so if he's replaced by Alonso he will not be missed.

In regards to Magnussen I've seen many of his races  and interviews and he seems extremely mature for his age. He is a guy that started karting at 2 years of age and seems like the real deal.

As for Perez, I understand that english is not his mother language but he doesn't sound like a very bright individual, and I wondered last year why McLaren signed him in the first place. Maybe he was the only one available at the time.



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#160 Clatter

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:35

It only makes sense to talk of experience in terms of seasons, as everyone accumulates experience at the same rate.  In F1 terms, Mansell at the start of 1985 was relatively in the same position as Perez will be at the start of 2015.

 

 

 

No, I was thinking of the Loti Mansell had in 1981-3.  OK, the first half of 1983 was a waste of time, but otherwise there were two and a half years of occasional race-winning pace. 

 

And as for Perez being the worst McLaren driver, I think you're forgetting a good few drivers that they had since Dennis took over; de Cesaris, de la Rosa, Alliot, and, perhaps relevant to the current debate, Jan Magnussen...

So NM after 6 seasons (5 full seasons) in F1 was only at the same position as SP will be after 4, yet you said previously that SP has nowhere near the same experience. 



#161 Lazy

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:37

Hardly. Britophile chose to slate Perez while at the same time championing a man that he himself said has a crap attidude. Sounds rather like he's in danger of living up to his moniker. McLaren have a tricky task ultimately, because all three of them have pros and cons.

Actually, having reread his post, you're right.



#162 Britophile

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 13:10

You were patently implying that he underperformed when you said "Perez has been beaten pretty soundly and consistently throughout the season by a perceptibly unmotivated JB." There was no point adding if you weren't suggesting it relevant.

 

As for JB in a decent car, we don't need to imagine anything since we all saw his season in the Brawn. That still doesn't make him a god however.
 

 

Please refrain from twisting my words to your liking. If I wanted to say Button is undeperforming I would have said Button is underperforming and that is that. And where did you see I declared Button as being "a god"? Another one of your vague intuitions perhaps ... ?

 

What I meant is that while JB is indeed unmotivated, he still managed to beat Pérez, the eager-to-prove-himself youngster on a regular basis. If in your view Button has underperformed, where does that leave Pérez's performance?

 

I can see you are fiercely protecting Checo. No need for that really as I don't have any problems with him personally. As a Macca fan however I firmly believe that even though he was given a once in a lifetime opportunity he couldn't live up to the expectations. Even he himself admitted recently he didn't do well and that he wasn't satisfied with his showing so I really don't see the point in you attacking me for pointing out the very same thing.



#163 Group B

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 13:45

Please refrain from twisting my words to your liking. If I wanted to say Button is undeperforming I would have said Button is underperforming and that is that. And where did you see I declared Button as being "a god"? Another one of your vague intuitions perhaps ... ?

 

What I meant is that while JB is indeed unmotivated, he still managed to beat Pérez, the eager-to-prove-himself youngster on a regular basis. If in your view Button has underperformed, where does that leave Pérez's performance?

 

I can see you are fiercely protecting Checo. No need for that really as I don't have any problems with him personally. As a Macca fan however I firmly believe that even though he was given a once in a lifetime opportunity he couldn't live up to the expectations. Even he himself admitted recently he didn't do well and that he wasn't satisfied with his showing so I really don't see the point in you attacking me for pointing out the very same thing.

 

:lol:

 

Spintastic. I'm sorry, but there's absolutely NO twisting required; you extremely clearly implied that Button could've beaten Perez by even more had he been fully moivated; it's there in black and white.

 

As for 'fiercly' defending Perez, I'm not even a fan, I'm simply giving my opinion that he hasn't been 'that' bad and is more likely to have capacity for improvement than Button, whilst KV is still very much unproven at F1 level. As I said earlier, it's far from an easy choice.



#164 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 13:53

Vandoorne fastest at GP2 test with a lap record, I wonder what Magnussen now thinks... I m sure he pissed some people off with his antics. Should he not get an F1 seat maybe he won't get a GP2 seat.....



#165 Nobody

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 14:02

Vandoorne fastest at GP2 test with a lap record, I wonder what Magnussen now thinks... I m sure he pissed some people off with his antics. Should he not get an F1 seat maybe he won't get a GP2 seat.....

 

Vandoorne comes into GP2 under more pressure than Mag is under currently, Whitmarsh's comments underline this.



#166 JHSingo

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 18:13

Except I don't think he underperformed this year. He is clearly dissapointed with the MP4/28, yes. But nevertheless he still has been beating Pérez badly. The team cost him some 10 points in Malaysia, the last two races he git rammed into right after the start and was denied to score any points as a result. Unlike his teammate he never lost not a single point through his own doing this year. And just look at how he drove 44 laps on primes in Abu Dhabi. Stunning performance, just imagine how would Button fare if he had a decent car. I reckon the new regulations will fit his driving style perfectly and those who think he didn't deliver this year will be in for a surprise.

 

In what way has he been "beating Perez badly"? Like I said in an earlier post, their pace has been pretty even this year. Even as early as Bahrain, Perez was giving Button a run for his money, which he didn't seem to like. Last two races alone Perez has been in the points, and Button hasn't. If Button had scored all of McLaren's points this year, and Perez was still on zero, you'd have a valid argument.

 

If Perez has been "disappointing" this year, I hate to think what that makes Button's season. For a guy who is vastly more experienced, and is a World Champion, he's not exactly been annihilating him this year. 


Edited by JHSingo, 08 November 2013 - 18:15.


#167 MinT

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 18:43

.

 

If Perez has been "disappointing" this year, I hate to think what that makes Button's season. For a guy who is vastly more experienced, and is a World Champion, he's not exactly been annihilating him this year. 

 Once again with JB - points score suggests otherwise. One of the biggest gaps to a team mate on the grid this season.



#168 djparky

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 18:47

by virtue of the 2015 engine change I suspect next year is probably a write-off anyway- so why not give Magnussen a go? I still don't understand why they signed Perez instead of a certain German driver



#169 Britophile

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 18:52

In what way has he been "beating Perez badly"? Like I said in an earlier post, their pace has been pretty even this year. Even as early as Bahrain, Perez was giving Button a run for his money, which he didn't seem to like. Last two races alone Perez has been in the points, and Button hasn't. If Button had scored all of McLaren's points this year, and Perez was still on zero, you'd have a valid argument.

 

If Perez has been "disappointing" this year, I hate to think what that makes Button's season. For a guy who is vastly more experienced, and is a World Champion, he's not exactly been annihilating him this year. 

 

Bahrain was the only race where Pérez showed some real pace. Mentioning the last two races as proof for Pérez's capabilities is flawed I think - Button both times got rammed into right after the start and was forced to do an alternate strategy which denied him any chance of scoring points. Still he destroyed Pérez in terms of relative performance in Abu Dhabi - with a damaged front wing that needed to be changed in an extremely early pit stop ruining his entire race he managed to finish only 12 seconds behind  Checo. Even Martin Whitmarsh who so far backed Pérez up said that his performance was disappointing.

 

Before the last two races where Button had massive misfortune and through no fault of his own had no chance of scoring points, Macca scored 83 points. Out of this 83, Button scored 60 points which was 72.7% of the total points tally. Beside this Button was looking for a strong finish in Malaysia where he had to retire because of a mistake from his team. With that in mind, on merit they would have scored 70 and 23 points respectively. How can scoring less than one third of the points of your teammate be interpreted anything else than being beaten badly?

 

Pérez also had incidents and contacts beyond count. In Monaco he wasn't impressive at all, he was just taking silly risks and the whole thing was just an accident waiting to happen. At Silverstone it is argued that he ignored the instructions regarding of the kerb which he should have stayed away from. In China he squeezed Räikkönen off the track, in Bahrain he drove into the back of his teammate then banged wheels with him. At Spa his pace was nowhere near to that of his teammate and got a drive through penalty for forcing Grosjean off the track. In Suzuka he again had an incident, this time with Rosberg. To make matters worst, according to him it is always the fault of other drivers, he never is the one to blame. He showed no respect to fellow drivers and no signs of being capable of learning from his mistakes, take responsibilty for them and to improve as a driver and as a person.

 

On the other hand, Button had no incidents, crashes, mistakes at all. He currently sits ninth in the drivers' standings which means he is the best of the rest and makes the most out of what he was given. Macca is fifth in the WCC standings so there are eight cars / drivers out there who are potentially better and ought to be higher up in the standings. Why not Checo is the one sitting at ninth or at least tenth right behind his teammate?

 

I seriously amazed at anyone who can rate Pérez's performance this year as reasonable, let alone decent and worthy of a contract extension.


Edited by Britophile, 08 November 2013 - 18:55.


#170 Lazy

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 18:56

 

 

Before the last two races where Button had massive misfortune and through no fault of his own had no chance of scoring points

http://www.planetf1....-responsibility



#171 Santosdf

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 18:57

Of course Mclaren can choose Magnussen over Perez but to fire him so late in the year with no time to negotiate with other teams,    is really not fair. 


Edited by Santosdf, 08 November 2013 - 18:58.


#172 Britophile

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 19:00

 

I didn't know about this, thank you for pointing that out for me.

 

Funnily enough this just confirms my earlier posts - unlike Checo, JB is capable of admitting his mistakes, showing maturity and character. Still after this blunder on his side he outpaced Pérez in relative performance.


Edited by Britophile, 08 November 2013 - 19:09.


#173 SophieB

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 19:01

Please take the Button vs Perez discussion to the team mate thread.

#174 pathogen

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 19:24

  
As to Macca not giving Mexicans fair treatment, I cannot imagine what you are basing your opinion on. I imagine they'd find the suggestion insulting and offensive.

 

Agree with Treads above too.  You are wide of the mark in your criticism.  The question is less about whether he is Mexican and much more about whether he can move the team forwards.

Ups! two Moderator answers. Is this some kind of admonishment? Did I broke some rule of this Forum? Did the british press needs defenders? Every day I read a lot of ‘gut feelling’ opinions but seems to me that mine hurt some feellings, so my apollogize. Paradoxically I am a old McLaren fan since I saw Bruce himself driving

 

in F1 and Group 7 Canam, big fan of Lauda, Prost and Hamilton, so my criticism is genuine and maybe not to racional.

 

 I don't think McLaren or their fans give a rat's ass what nationality Perez is, they care about how fast he is. 

 

Thank you for your warm, refined and educated words.

 

 

As a fellow Macca fan, I must admit it is obvious that team and their fans are keen on judging drivers based on their nationalities. After all the team's first WDC was a Brazilian, their most popular and most celebrated champion was also a Brazilian. Oh wait ... :)

Let me give you some perspective: Brazil and Mexico are two diferent countries. Curiously ‘Emmo’ leave the team driving by national fellings and last week F. Massa shot an argumentation ragards the lack of brazilians drivers in F1. I am the first in recognize the relevance of drivers from Brasil… 8 world championships and several top racers in 20 years. Nor France, Germany or Italy can talk in this terms. So, nations matters.

:well: 



#175 ensign14

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 19:34


Funnily enough this just confirms my earlier posts - unlike Checo, JB is capable of admitting his mistakes, showing maturity and character.

 

Now compare Button's maturity at the same age, when he was busy signing to drive for half the grid simultaneously.

 

Perez has certainly done enough to warrant a second go.  Magnussen has not done enough to get a McLaren seat.  Win GP2, then perhaps.


Edited by ensign14, 08 November 2013 - 19:34.


#176 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 19:47

by virtue of the 2015 engine change I suspect next year is probably a write-off anyway- so why not give Magnussen a go? I still don't understand why they signed Perez instead of a certain German driver

Everyone is saying Mercedes is the engine to have, so why would 2014 be a write-off? McLaren can't afford two rubbish seasons in a row. It's not that hard to switch engines in a year's time, so both 2014 and 2015 can be succesful for McLaren.

 

Remember Brawn? Their car had to be adjusted to fit Mercedes engines because it was designed for Honda engines at first.

 

Even it is was write-off, that would be the worst scenario to put Magnussen in, it would be the same as Pérez had this year.


Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 08 November 2013 - 19:48.


#177 alframsey

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 19:50

I will be so pissed off if McLaren ditch Sergio, he just hasn't been given a real chance this season! We have seen glimpses of what he is capable of in a very poor McLaren and so imo he deserves at least one season in a decent car to really show what he can do. Both sides (McLaren and SP) have let each other down at points this season.



#178 JHSingo

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 19:57

 Once again with JB - points score suggests otherwise. One of the biggest gaps to a team mate on the grid this season.

 

 

Bahrain was the only race where Pérez showed some real pace. Mentioning the last two races as proof for Pérez's capabilities is flawed I think - Button both times got rammed into right after the start and was forced to do an alternate strategy which denied him any chance of scoring points. Still he destroyed Pérez in terms of relative performance in Abu Dhabi - with a damaged front wing that needed to be changed in an extremely early pit stop ruining his entire race he managed to finish only 12 seconds behind  Checo. Even Martin Whitmarsh who so far backed Pérez up said that his performance was disappointing.

 

Before the last two races where Button had massive misfortune and through no fault of his own had no chance of scoring points, Macca scored 83 points. Out of this 83, Button scored 60 points which was 72.7% of the total points tally. Beside this Button was looking for a strong finish in Malaysia where he had to retire because of a mistake from his team. With that in mind, on merit they would have scored 70 and 23 points respectively. How can scoring less than one third of the points of your teammate be interpreted anything else than being beaten badly?

 

Pérez also had incidents and contacts beyond count. In Monaco he wasn't impressive at all, he was just taking silly risks and the whole thing was just an accident waiting to happen. At Silverstone it is argued that he ignored the instructions regarding of the kerb which he should have stayed away from. In China he squeezed Räikkönen off the track, in Bahrain he drove into the back of his teammate then banged wheels with him. At Spa his pace was nowhere near to that of his teammate and got a drive through penalty for forcing Grosjean off the track. In Suzuka he again had an incident, this time with Rosberg. To make matters worst, according to him it is always the fault of other drivers, he never is the one to blame. He showed no respect to fellow drivers and no signs of being capable of learning from his mistakes, take responsibilty for them and to improve as a driver and as a person.

 

On the other hand, Button had no incidents, crashes, mistakes at all. He currently sits ninth in the drivers' standings which means he is the best of the rest and makes the most out of what he was given. Macca is fifth in the WCC standings so there are eight cars / drivers out there who are potentially better and ought to be higher up in the standings. Why not Checo is the one sitting at ninth or at least tenth right behind his teammate?

 

I seriously amazed at anyone who can rate Pérez's performance this year as reasonable, let alone decent and worthy of a contract extension.

 

Points finishes only tell half the story though, don't they?

 

If the mods indulge me just this once - there's an on topic point at the end of it, I promise.

 

Button has had 12 points finishes this year, Perez 9.

In the qualifying battle to date, Button just edges it 9-8 over Perez.

Button's qualifying average so far this season is 10. Perez's is 10.7

Button's race average is 9.35. Perez's is 10.05.

 

Yes, of course, Button has the edge over Perez right now. For a man who has won a World Championship and has thirteen years experience in Formula One, would you honestly expect any different? My point is for a guy who is ten years less experienced than Button, and is only in his third season of F1, Perez certainly hasn't been humiliated. When you consider what an awful season McLaren has had this year, I don't think you can really make many judgements about his season. I think his performances have warranted at least a second year.

 

If McLaren are on form again next year, with a competitive car, then we'll see what he can do. If he's still in the bottom end of the points when Button is regularly on the podium, or even winning races, then yes, maybe they should start looking at an alternative. But the point of this post is just to highlight that Perez's season hasn't been as bad as you're making it out to be. Personally, I've been quite surprised how equal to Button's pace Perez has often been. So like I've been saying, if Perez is at risk, using that logic, perhaps McLaren should be looking at an alternative to Button for a lead driver?

 

As for the "attitude" or whatever...what young driver hasn't been full of themselves at the start of their career? They mellow with age. Button was famously quite arrogant in his early career, as was Hamilton. The latter has only really started to mature in this last few years.

 

Kovalainen got two years, so it's only fair Sergio gets another as well. Besides, F1 teams have wrecked the careers of enough young drivers over the last few years that it really doesn't need to be putting another on the scrapheap.

 

 

Perez has certainly done enough to warrant a second go.  Magnussen has not done enough to get a McLaren seat.  Win GP2, then perhaps.

 

If anything, I'd say WSbR 3.5 has been the far superior championship over the last few seasons. Much higher quality than GP2, by far. But I guess that's a debate to be had in another thread. :lol:


Edited by JHSingo, 08 November 2013 - 19:58.


#179 Britophile

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 20:12

Points finishes only tell half the story though, don't they?

 

If the mods indulge me just this once - there's an on topic point at the end of it, I promise.

 

Button has had 12 points finishes this year, Perez 9.

In the qualifying battle to date, Button just edges it 9-8 over Perez.

Button's qualifying average so far this season is 10. Perez's is 10.7

Button's race average is 9.35. Perez's is 10.05.

 

Yes, of course, Button has the edge over Perez right now. For a man who has won a World Championship and has thirteen years experience in Formula One, would you honestly expect any different? My point is for a guy who is ten years less experienced than Button, and is only in his third season of F1, Perez certainly hasn't been humiliated. When you consider what an awful season McLaren has had this year, I don't think you can really make many judgements about his season. I think his performances have warranted at least a second year.

 

If McLaren are on form again next year, with a competitive car, then we'll see what he can do. If he's still in the bottom end of the points when Button is regularly on the podium, or even winning races, then yes, maybe they should start looking at an alternative. But the point of this post is just to highlight that Perez's season hasn't been as bad as you're making it out to be. Personally, I've been quite surprised how equal to Button's pace Perez has often been. So like I've been saying, if Perez is at risk, using that logic, perhaps McLaren should be looking at an alternative to Button for a lead driver?

 

As for the "attitude" or whatever...what young driver hasn't been full of themselves at the start of their career? They mellow with age. Button was famously quite arrogant in his early career, as was Hamilton. The latter has only really started to mature in this last few years.

 

Kovalainen got two years, so it's only fair Sergio gets another as well. Besides, F1 teams have wrecked the careers of enough young drivers over the last few years that it really doesn't need to be putting another on the scrapheap.

 

 

 

If anything, I'd say WSbR 3.5 has been the far superior championship over the last few seasons. Much higher quality than GP2, by far. But I guess that's a debate to be had in another thread. :lol:

 

Well we went OT way too much already, so being on topic let me just answer that if you were right about Pérez and his performance we wouldn't even have this thread. It wouldn't be a question whether the team should go with him or with Magnussen. The very fact that Magnussen has a serious chance of getting the other Macca seat for next year proves that however we look at it, McLaren are not satisfied with Checo and they are ready to lose him despite his massive financial backing from Telmex. Quite telling if you ask me.



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#180 JLF1

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 23:51

the quicker they get rid of him the better, Perez wasn't a well though out choice, but this is a chance for McLaren to change it i think Kev could be quick from the off, he shows potential, McLaren should give him a chance its a risk, but they have made risks on rookies before and look how well that went until he got big headed and then left the team but thats a different topic. 



#181 bogi

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 16:35

Sam Michael: McLaren Young Driver Development Programme

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=I0BThXAWtLM



#182 george1981

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 17:59

I'd take Magnussen. His early career seems to be more impressive than Perez. He also seems to be very confident and good at getting himself noticed; in this way he reminds me a lot of Lewis Hamilton in his pre-F1 days.

Perez hasn't impressed me during his career. A lot of his memorable drives at Sauber were due to strategy as much as his driving. When he went to McLaren I thought he'd been the hare to Button's tortoise; Perez being very quick but crash happy whilst Button plodded along picking up small amounts of points each race. However Perez has just been slow.

With the engine changes both 2014 and 2015 might be right offs for McLaren any way so what have they got to lose? If McLaren produce a totally dominant car then Button can get a second WDC regardless of how Magnussen performs.



#183 Lazy

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 18:19

I'd take Magnussen. His early career seems to be more impressive than Perez. He also seems to be very confident and good at getting himself noticed; in this way he reminds me a lot of Lewis Hamilton in his pre-F1 days.

Perez hasn't impressed me during his career. A lot of his memorable drives at Sauber were due to strategy as much as his driving. When he went to McLaren I thought he'd been the hare to Button's tortoise; Perez being very quick but crash happy whilst Button plodded along picking up small amounts of points each race. However Perez has just been slow.

With the engine changes both 2014 and 2015 might be right offs for McLaren any way so what have they got to lose? If McLaren produce a totally dominant car then Button can get a second WDC regardless of how Magnussen performs.

So you think Magnussen has no chance against Button then?



#184 george1981

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 18:49

So you think Magnussen has no chance against Button then?

I think he has a good chance against Button, however if I'm wrong and he does struggle McLaren have got a safe pair of hands with Button.



#185 Lazy

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:08

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111221

 

Gut feeling tells me JB will have a sterner test next year, fingers crossed for a good car, could be fun.

 

Could well be a showdown to see who partners Fred in 2015.

 

Still have doubts about bringing people into top teams this young, even Lewis would have been better off with some time in a smaller team imo.



#186 Disgrace

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:15

the quicker they get rid of him the better, Perez wasn't a well though out choice, but this is a chance for McLaren to change it i think Kev could be quick from the off, he shows potential, McLaren should give him a chance its a risk, but they have made risks on rookies before and look how well that went until he got big headed and then left the team but thats a different topic. 

 

I have to agree. I don't think McLaren expected Perez to turn up with the racecraft of a complete rookie in his third year. Magnussen will require work, but he is their own investment. McLaren shouldn't waste their time developing a driver if Magnussen is the future regardless. It's worth the risk.



#187 jals99

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:30

I would sign Perez and Kevin, and fire pensioneer Button :)



#188 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:31

too early for MAG! If you give PER a shitmobile how can you expect him to perform, at least he overtook Sutil in the last lap.

 

:( 



#189 Treads

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:40

"Kevin Magnussen closes on 2014 McLaren F1 seat over Sergio Perez"

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111221

 

Well this is getting interesting now isn't it!

 

I for one voted 'don't know' to the poll as, for me, Magnussen is not yet ready for a seat with McLaren, and Perez is not the answer.

 

KM's junior record is impressive but it is currently a very difficult time to enter F1. Lewis Hamiltion, the last rookie to drive for McLaren, had over 10,000km of F1 testing in the bag ahead of the 2007 season. I don't know how many kms KM has but based on a couple of test days I imagine it is less than 1,000km. That is a pretty tough ask. 



#190 Treads

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:44

I would sign Perez and Kevin, and fire pensioneer Button :)

 

You're joking right? You rate Perez > Button even though Button has twice the points? 
Perez isn't a rookie. The learning curve in F1 is very steep - but the results of that is, by the third season, he should be a long way up it.



#191 Risil

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:46

What is going on at Mclaren



#192 Anja

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:46

I'm not sure if I'm right on that but I've been thinking that 2014 might be the best year for rookies to debut. With cars so fundamentally different, every driver will have to learn from the scratch. Surely the new drivers will have less of an disadvantage than normally?


Edited by Anja, 10 November 2013 - 14:47.


#193 aray

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:53

i think it is going to happen....



#194 Zoony

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 14:58

I think Perez should be given another chance. I think it would be very unfair to judge him on one season with a rubbish car.

 

But, (and I admit I may be a bit 'not up to speed' on this), weren't the theories this time last year regarding McLaren's new title sponsor all based upon Perez having been signed then specifically to bring Mexican money with him for the 2014 title sponsorship deal? Wasn't the rumour then that it was going to be Telmex? If that is still the case, surely his place is more secure at McLaren than Button's is.



#195 metz

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 15:05

by virtue of the 2015 engine change I suspect next year is probably a write-off anyway- so why not give Magnussen a go? I still don't understand why they signed Perez instead of a certain German driver

Ron has never signed a German driver.

Now, If Hulkenberg was a Finn...!



#196 JHSingo

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 15:15

I for one voted 'don't know' to the poll as, for me, Magnussen is not yet ready for a seat with McLaren, and Perez is not the answer.

 

KM's junior record is impressive but it is currently a very difficult time to enter F1. Lewis Hamiltion, the last rookie to drive for McLaren, had over 10,000km of F1 testing in the bag ahead of the 2007 season. I don't know how many kms KM has but based on a couple of test days I imagine it is less than 1,000km. That is a pretty tough ask. 

 

 

I find this term "not ready" quite amusing really. You see it a lot on these forums, but how do you define when a driver is ready or not? You simply don't know till you give them a chance, and well, they're never going to be ready if you don't give them an opportunity. I'd say winning WSbR 3.5 (like I said earlier, a far superior championship to GP2 these last few years) counts you as ready.

 

The days of lots of testing for young drivers are gone. No kid is ever going to be given the luxury that Hamilton or Vettel were given with plenty of testing, or appearances on a Friday. Third drivers spend more time twiddling their thumbs than driving racing cars these days.



#197 Boxerevo

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 15:15

I think Perez is doing well,Button is a superb F1 driver.

 

I really don't know how to score the level of driving in Grosjean and Perez,Hulk is probably already ahead of them...but Button is so far ahead in experience that even if they were as talented as Button they would get a beating.

 

Button still a long way ahead of Perez but i don't think its more demerite of Perez than how overall good Button got along the years.


Edited by Boxerevo, 10 November 2013 - 15:16.


#198 P123

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 15:19

 

 

As for 'fiercly' defending Perez, I'm not even a fan, I'm simply giving my opinion that he hasn't been 'that' bad and is more likely to have capacity for improvement than Button, whilst KV is still very much unproven at F1 level. As I said earlier, it's far from an easy choice.

 

SP may have the capacity to improve, but will it be by enough to be as good as JB?  It's a tough choice for McLaren, but all the noise from them of late seems to indicate that they don't think Sergio is up to it, but Magnussen may very well be.



#199 KateLM

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 15:32

I'm not quite sure that Magnussen is the next (circa 2007) Hamilton personally. He's always shown a lot of potential but this is the first year he's really delivered on it; he's not had a 'can't stop winning' junior career ala Hamilton and Hulkenberg.

 

However, if McLaren are convinced from the data they've seen then they should absolutely pick him over Perez. There's been enough both said and rumoured to conclude that McLaren were not looking for a #2 for Button when they picked Checo. He's not been terrible this year, but neither has he looked like he could lead a title charge. If they don't think he has that potential (and aren't counting on Button to do it either) then there's little point in persisting with him. 



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#200 SonJR

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 15:32

Of course Mclaren can choose Magnussen over Perez but to fire him so late in the year with no time to negotiate with other teams,    is really not fair. 

Meh. No matter what a team tells you, any smart driver/manager without a deal in place should start looking around for other prospects during the summer break. There's being fair and there's being smart.