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Quantum, The Cheque Is In The Post


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#1 swerved

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 15:12

I see more and more news sites reporting this deal as done, one of the most certain being Joe Sawards blog:

 

http://joesaward.wor...l-is-completed/

 

Given that the financial straits Lotus have found themselves in have been well publicised  could Mr Ijaz have used a phrase less inclined to raise eyebrows than "The cheque is in the post" ? 

 

I can't help but wonder why, if this deal is concluded, Lotus aren't screaming it from the rooftops, in fact since the weekend it seems that Mr Ijaz has had more to say about Lotus than anyone ? and he's had more to say today.

 

"We did everything we could. We moved this way, they blocked; we moved that way, they blocked; we moved that way, and finally we got it through".

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111156

 

 

 

Something just doesn't seem right to me, not least of all the propensity of Mansoor Ijaz to issue statements  when there has been no official confirmation from Lopez/Lotus that the deal has been concluded, could Lopez be having second thoughts about this deal ?

 

What do we think ? Is is a done deal ? Could there still be issues, and if it is a done deal does anyone have any reservations, I certainly do, and have done almost since the deal was announced.

 

 

 

Obviously this deal affects Lotus, Raikkonen, Grosjean and everyone else at the factory, and with due deference to the likes of Shiroo etc i've started this thread so that any discussions concerning the future of the drivers and team insofar as they relate to the Quantum deal might be kept out of the E21 car thread, we also dont need to discuss how many square feet of real estate Kimi owns   :up:

 

 

ETA: Is this a veiled warning to Nico Hulkenberg ? My German isn't the best.

 

http://sportbild.bil...us-kaeufer.html


Edited by swerved, 05 November 2013 - 15:16.


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#2 P123

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 15:31

What isn't right is that Quantum have been scraping the barrel to get their funds together.  They may give Enstone a short term cash injection, but I seriously doubt they will be any good for the long term health of the team.



#3 scheivlak

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 15:44

It's even unclear whether there's anything substantial in that barrel, and mr. Ijaz does not have the best reputation - in view of some previous affairs.



#4 artista

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 15:57

...

 

 

ETA: Is this a veiled warning to Nico Hulkenberg ? My German isn't the best.

 

http://sportbild.bil...us-kaeufer.html

 

Yep. But I would not say the warning to Hülkie is veiled, I would say it is a pretty open and direct warning.



#5 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 15:57

Quantum seems to be a mirage, Maldonado is the only one who will lead Lotus out of the financial difficulties now :smoking: 



#6 Jimisgod

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:08

Kimi was wise to get the first ticket out of that mess of a team.

#7 redreni

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:09

One assumes any investors in Lotus will be wanting their money back. It's very hard to see how they expect to get it. Lotus doesn't appear to have a sustainable business model. I can't understand why anyone would want to invest, to be honest, and sure enough there doesn't seem to be any interest from legitimate, reputable investors. If I were Nico Hulkenberg Lotus would be my last resort, not my first choice. And if I worked there I'd be hawking my CV around to every other team on the grid.



#8 EthanM

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:11

IMO when the dust settles all that will be left of this "deal" will be Genii divesting from Lotus at maybe 80 cents to the dollar and Lotus will have puppet angel investor with far less money than they pretend to have



#9 swerved

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:12

What isn't right is that Quantum have been scraping the barrel to get their funds together.  They may give Enstone a short term cash injection, but I seriously doubt they will be any good for the long term health of the team.

 

Lets hope they come up with more than just apples, I'm not convinced about the short term let alone a longer view, Mr Mansoor does seem to enjoy talking, and isn't shy to claim where Lotus will be next year. 

 

"We’ll be number one in 12 months. I say it simply, flatly, completely - we'll be number one in 12 months."

 

http://www.telegraph...nsoor-Ijaz.html

 

Quite some claim, even Lopez has always been more measured in his statements and i see plenty of scope for a personality clash. 

 

It's even unclear whether there's anything substantial in that barrel, and mr. Ijaz does not have the best reputation - in view of some previous affairs.

 

:up:

 

 

Yep. But I would not say the warning to Hülkie is veiled, I would say it is a pretty open and direct warning.

 

Thanks Arista, any chance you could give us the basics ? I wasn't joking about my lack of translating skills.



#10 Fastcake

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:22

Lets hope they come up with more than just apples, I'm not convinced about the short term let alone a longer view, Mr Mansoor does seem to enjoy talking, and isn't shy to claim where Lotus will be next year. 

 

"We’ll be number one in 12 months. I say it simply, flatly, completely - we'll be number one in 12 months."

 

http://www.telegraph...nsoor-Ijaz.html

 

Quite some claim, even Lopez has always been more measured in his statements and i see plenty of scope for a personality clash. 

 

 

I recall a Mr Pollock making similar claims before, and we all know how that turned out...



#11 artista

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:35

...

 

Thanks Arista, any chance you could give us the basics ? I wasn't joking about my lack of translating skills.

Of course, but just a little, because I don't know how "legal" it is to translate and write down things that may or not be true (just in case they are not true, some of the things told in the article are pretty nasty). :)

 

The first part of the article has the statements from Ijaz that were also published in Autosport: that they are going to pay the debts, that they are bringing high-value sponsors, that the deal with Hülkie is ready to be signed and that Nico is pretty excited about it.

 

The second part is the tricky one, and if you don't mind I will not translate any of them directly, just in case.

Bild goes through what the press has published about this guy in the past. We've already read some of them here in a link that was posted in the Lotus thread (or the Räikkönen/Lotus relationship thread, I don't remember which one). Bild add more data to the ones we already had there. All that data put the guy under a pretty bad light.

 

Third part goes into what signing with Lotus could mean for Hülkenberg. Bild says signing with Lotus could (conditional tense) mean the end of Nico's career if he signs with López and company and the team can't keep on going. Bild also says that they know Bernie is tired of López's machinations and that he would love to see López away from F1. Bild also says the situation reminds them of the Qadbak deal with BMW in 2009



#12 Disgrace

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:41

Echos of Shannon/Forti deal. :p



#13 Kobasmashi

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:48

Ijaz sounds like a total moron. This is like the Anzhi Makhachkala football "superpower" attempt backed by someone who didn't know what they were doing who's now pulled the plug on most of the money and has left the team bottom of the league.

#14 Shiroo

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:49

I see more and more news sites reporting this deal as done, one of the most certain being Joe Sawards blog:

 

http://joesaward.wor...l-is-completed/

 

Given that the financial straits Lotus have found themselves in have been well publicised  could Mr Ijaz have used a phrase less inclined to raise eyebrows than "The cheque is in the post" ? 

 

I can't help but wonder why, if this deal is concluded, Lotus aren't screaming it from the rooftops, in fact since the weekend it seems that Mr Ijaz has had more to say about Lotus than anyone ? and he's had more to say today.

 

"We did everything we could. We moved this way, they blocked; we moved that way, they blocked; we moved that way, and finally we got it through".

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111156

 

 

 

Something just doesn't seem right to me, not least of all the propensity of Mansoor Ijaz to issue statements  when there has been no official confirmation from Lopez/Lotus that the deal has been concluded, could Lopez be having second thoughts about this deal ?

 

What do we think ? Is is a done deal ? Could there still be issues, and if it is a done deal does anyone have any reservations, I certainly do, and have done almost since the deal was announced.

 

 

 

Obviously this deal affects Lotus, Raikkonen, Grosjean and everyone else at the factory, and with due deference to the likes of Shiroo etc i've started this thread so that any discussions concerning the future of the drivers and team insofar as they relate to the Quantum deal might be kept out of the E21 car thread, we also dont need to discuss how many square feet of real estate Kimi owns   :up:

 

 

ETA: Is this a veiled warning to Nico Hulkenberg ? My German isn't the best.

 

http://sportbild.bil...us-kaeufer.html

 

Wow.  :cat: My avatar is for you, with love :kiss:

 

Now about the deal. Well even I find it a bit shaddy. I would prefer to have the statement already with: We are Quantum Lotus from next season, line up is Hulk & Gro and we will bring this, that and this to the team (sponsors) etc.and budget will be increased.

 

And that fellow Mansoor speaks like a team owner nowdays rather than a shareholder


Edited by Shiroo, 05 November 2013 - 16:50.


#15 bourbon

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:50

Lotus' creed had better be "show me the money"...



#16 swerved

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 16:51

Of course, but just a little, because I don't know how "legal" it is to translate and write down things that may or not be true (just in case they are not true, some of the things told in the article are pretty nasty). :)

 

The first part of the article has the statements from Ijaz that were also published in Autosport: that they are going to pay the debts, that they are bringing high-value sponsors, that the deal with Hülkie is ready to be signed and that Nico is pretty excited about it.

 

The second part is the tricky one, and if you don't mind I will not translate any of them directly, just in case.

Bild goes through what the press has published about this guy in the past. We've already read some of them here in a link that was posted in the Lotus thread (or the Räikkönen/Lotus relationship thread, I don't remember which one). Bild add more data to the ones we already had there. All that data put the guy under a pretty bad light.

 

Third part goes into what signing with Lotus could mean for Hülkenberg. Bild says signing with Lotus could (conditional tense) mean the end of Nico's career if he signs with López and company and the team can't keep on going. Bild also says that they know Bernie is tired of López's machinations and that he would love to see López away from F1. Bild also says the situation reminds them of the Qadbak deal with BMW in 2009

 

 

Thanks for that, and yes, not so veiled, can't help thinking that if Bernie really was averse to Lopez what he might be thinking about their new partners  :lol:



#17 MattPete

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 17:45

Lets hope they come up with more than just apples, I'm not convinced about the short term let alone a longer view, Mr Mansoor does seem to enjoy talking, and isn't shy to claim where Lotus will be next year. ...

 

Mansoor Ijaz has a damned impressive CV: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Mansoor_Ijaz

 

Having said that, his involvement in memogate (I forgot all about that!) made him look like a fool: http://en.wikipedia....gate_(Pakistan)



#18 Shiroo

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 17:48

Mansoor Ijaz has a damned impressive CV: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Mansoor_Ijaz

 

Having said that, his involvement in memogate (I forgot all about that!) made him look like a fool: http://en.wikipedia....gate_(Pakistan)

 

Well he definetly know some important folks. BTW, is he rich>?


Edited by Shiroo, 05 November 2013 - 17:48.


#19 senna da silva

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 17:56

I recall a Mr Pollock making similar claims before, and we all know how that turned out...

 

For the record, it was Mr. Reynard who made those claims. 



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#20 Baddoer

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 20:07

This guy is a clown. Stefan GP suddenly looks professional now.


Edited by Baddoer, 05 November 2013 - 20:08.


#21 sneaker91

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 00:26

I got a bad feeling this deal is gonna fall thru and Hulk gonna get svrewd. Hope I am way wrong

#22 boldhakka

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:35

Would be a blessing in disguise for Enstone if the deal does not go through.

#23 santababy

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:24

Well Tuesday is gone, now we wait......
I hope Hulk has a backup plan.

#24 wonk123

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:35

Gotta love Wikipedia, The first line lists him as owner of Lotus F1   :rotfl:



#25 Shiroo

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:29

Would be a blessing in disguise for Enstone if the deal does not go through.

 

why? 



#26 boldhakka

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 08:14

why? 

 

Everything we know about it so far makes my skin crawl. 



#27 MustangSally

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:17

Well Tuesday is gone, now we wait......


And some suppliers and employees are still waiting to get paid.

One might almost suspect that the 'announcement' was a response to Kimi's very public protest, which may have prompted a series of injunctions.

Personally, I find it very unusual that a major agreement is announced by only one side, with the other party saying nothing at all.

There is certainly some inconsistency in the reporting. Saward claims that the investor will come in and clear the debts. But the investor himself gives the impression that the tab is for Lopez.

Quote: "They are going to pay a lot of bills this week, let's put it that way," he (Ijaz) added, referring to the Enstone outfit. "We've asked them to make sure things get paid as quickly as possible."

Problem is, of course, that Lotus doesn't appear to have the money. And 'clearing the debt' should perhaps be qualified by 'eventually'. Kimi has been asked to accept a 'payment schedule'.

The question of Hulk or Maldonado seems totally academic at the moment, since neither can drive a car without engines. The self-styled team owner hasn't actually put his hand in his pocket since the deal was first announced.

#28 swerved

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:35

Everything we know about it so far makes my skin crawl. 

 

Thats my feeling also, given that the mantra has been along the lines of "waiting for the best opportunity" etc its difficult to imagine how this deal, with this group, is judged to be the best opportunity given what Lotus have achieved, but then what do we know, all of these doubts could prove to be unfounded, its just looking unlikely that they will be.

 

And some suppliers and employees are still waiting to get paid.

One might almost suspect that the 'announcement' was a response to Kimi's very public protest, which may have prompted a series of injunctions.

Personally, I find it very unusual that a major agreement is announced by only one side, with the other party saying nothing at all.

There is certainly some inconsistency in the reporting. Saward claims that the investor will come in and clear the debts. But the investor himself gives the impression that the tab is for Lopez.

Quote: "They are going to pay a lot of bills this week, let's put it that way," he (Ijaz) added, referring to the Enstone outfit. "We've asked them to make sure things get paid as quickly as possible."

Problem is, of course, that Lotus doesn't appear to have the money. And 'clearing the debt' should perhaps be qualified by 'eventually'. Kimi has been asked to accept a 'payment schedule'.

The question of Hulk or Maldonado seems totally academic at the moment, since neither can drive a car without engines. The self-styled team owner hasn't actually put his hand in his pocket since the deal was first announced.

 

Thats one of the fascinating aspects for me, that since the beginning of the last race weekend we've heard far more from Ijaz about this deal and its consequences than we have from those who are, as far as we know 100*% the current owners, I wonder what Lopez thinks about his supposed new partner announcing to all and sundry that he's suggested this and that , and that Kimi will be paid what he's owed "and then some" , or indeed Ijaz' assertion that he and Lopez are "cut from the same cloth"  :lol:

 

http://www.sportspro...e_in_12_months/

 

 

I would hate to be in Hulkenbergs shoes, I just hope for his sake that his manager is competent enough to cover every base, he's apparently already said that he's willing to wait for the Lotus seat, the days are ticking by though and it could be that Maldonado is also keen to to ink a deal of his own.



#29 EthanM

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:51

why? 

 

cause serious billionaires don't have personal websites like this one? http://mansoorijaz.com/

yeah it's a copy of his wikipedia profile which he probably wrote himself



#30 wrcva

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:30

Even if there is a short term cash infusion to clean up some of this mess, you have to question Lopez's judgement in getting associated with these types of investors who are trying to portray themselves as the owners of the team, making driver announcements before any agreement or joint official announcement.   It seems like Lopez is banking on these guys having loads of cash, and these guys are banking on some sort of association with Lotus F1 name to raise cash, but net net at the moment none of them have cash but maybe some teaser funds, bunch of short term promises to put out fires...  because they all are stuck as Kimi called on them to perform on the contract.

 

Obviously the Mansoor guy is after publicity, maybe to borrow more money from another bank to pay his outstanding debts on different banks, if you believe the reports and fraud investigations about him.    In the meantime they invited a "select" group of 8 bloggers and journos, who are not likely to ask tough questions, to a briefing to propagate their message (according to Saward's response to one of the comments in the link posted in the OP).     I thought Lopez was smarter than this...  Mansoor says 35% partnership and two board seats in Lotus F1 Limited (in his wikipedia profile, almost certain he wrote it himself) for an undisclosed sum on a deal that was done back in June 2013... yea right,  even this will be more believable ...  

 

bridge4sale.jpg

 

Chances are Kimi will come out of this fine (Bernie's offer to deduct his pay from Lotus F1 prize money), but this is not good for the team and all those talented folks who thought they were employed by a legitimate team and financially responsible team owner.

 



#31 dau

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 14:48

cause serious billionaires don't have personal websites like this one? http://mansoorijaz.com/

yeah it's a copy of his wikipedia profile which he probably wrote himself

So? Who the hell cares what 'his' website looks like? Lotus need money now, Quantum offers to give them money now. So either everything gets through and Lotus can go on or they are in exactly the same position as they would be without Quantum. A blessing in disguise if the deal doesn't go through? Give me a break. If the deal doesn't go through, Lotus is probably pretty much bankrupt. It's not like they have any alternatives after all.



#32 EthanM

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 14:54

So? Who the hell cares what 'his' website looks like? Lotus need money now, Quantum offers to give them money now. So either everything gets through and Lotus can go on or they are in exactly the same position as they would be without Quantum. A blessing in disguise if the deal doesn't go through? Give me a break. If the deal doesn't go through, Lotus is probably pretty much bankrupt. It's not like they have any alternatives after all.

 

 

deals are seldom as straightforward as you think. Someone mentioned Stefan GP ... they actually had no money, they had a deal to lease cars Toyota had built and were hoping they could hire enough pay drivers and use the toyota cars to good enough effect that they would make enough money to make the season.

 

Same applies to Quantum. You can "sell" them a stake without getting money, just a promise to inject money. Why? Cause you don't want to keep financing the debt the team runs. And then things get complicated



#33 zdzisio

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 15:09

cause serious billionaires don't have personal websites like this one? http://mansoorijaz.com/

yeah it's a copy of his wikipedia profile which he probably wrote himself

 

Why on Earth would you think this website is actually his? Serious question. 



#34 Fastcake

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 15:14

deals are seldom as straightforward as you think. Someone mentioned Stefan GP ... they actually had no money, they had a deal to lease cars Toyota had built and were hoping they could hire enough pay drivers and use the toyota cars to good enough effect that they would make enough money to make the season.

Same applies to Quantum. You can "sell" them a stake without getting money, just a promise to inject money. Why? Cause you don't want to keep financing the debt the team runs. And then things get complicated


Stefen wasn't even trying to make a full season. I'm convinced they were nothing more than a scam, putting in a minimal effort to make a few races then disappearing with the money. Luckily, Bernie prevented teams getting prize money that easily years ago.

#35 EthanM

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 15:18

Why on Earth would you think this website is actually his? Serious question. 

 

cause it was registered 6 years ago, renewed twice, and ICANN would release a domain about you, named for you in milliseconds if you spend 500 bucks on a lawyer



#36 MustangSally

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 16:18

http://www.sportspro...e_in_12_months/


Thanks for the link.

In fact, Ijaz is saying at the weekend exactly the same as he said six months ago. Almost word for word. Except that nothing has changed.

Quote: 'We will be number 1 in 12 months'.

Well, six months on from this interview, there are none of the promised new sponsors, no Kimi and even less money.

He's all talk.

#37 MattPete

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 16:31

More on Mansoor's "fortune"

 

http://www.thehindu....icle2935787.ece



#38 zdzisio

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:02

cause it was registered 6 years ago, renewed twice, and ICANN would release a domain about you, named for you in milliseconds if you spend 500 bucks on a lawyer

 

Thank you for that explanation, it really did help me make decision not to engage in that topic any further.



#39 dau

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:06

deals are seldom as straightforward as you think. Someone mentioned Stefan GP ... they actually had no money, they had a deal to lease cars Toyota had built and were hoping they could hire enough pay drivers and use the toyota cars to good enough effect that they would make enough money to make the season.

 

Same applies to Quantum. You can "sell" them a stake without getting money, just a promise to inject money. Why? Cause you don't want to keep financing the debt the team runs. And then things get complicated

 

Thing is, Lotus need money now, not promises to inject money. They wouldn't agree to promises, they have to pay their drivers, their staff, their suppliers. So unless you do have some insider info, i don't see the point in speculating about the details of the deal and whether it's better if it doesn't go forward. Or digging up domains registered by DomainsByProxy.

 

It's not like we didn't know who was behind Infinity/Quantum months ago, isn't it? So why now the focus on Ijaz? He's heading Quantum, but the majority of the money was always supposed to come from Brunei, not his own company.

 

StefanGP is a completely different story and has nothing to do with this. 



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#40 redreni

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:07

So? Who the hell cares what 'his' website looks like? Lotus need money now, Quantum offers to give them money now. So either everything gets through and Lotus can go on or they are in exactly the same position as they would be without Quantum. A blessing in disguise if the deal doesn't go through? Give me a break. If the deal doesn't go through, Lotus is probably pretty much bankrupt. It's not like they have any alternatives after all.

 

I disagree. The F1 team from Enstone is undoubtedly a viable prospect, it has competed consistently near the front for many years and has won multiple championships. What it doesn't need is dodgy characters using the company's assets to leverage money out of vulture capitalists in order to enable them to live beyond their means for a few years before going bust. They're now at a crossroads and one of their options is to face up to their problems, deal honestly with their creditors, possibly end up, as you say, declaring bankruptcy and/or going into administration, from which they could potentially emerge in decent shape since they are a fundamentally viable outfit, provided suppliers and others would still be prepared to deal with them after they sullied their previously good reputation for paying bills on time.

 

Another option is to carry on as before, try and see if they can find an even dodgier character than last time to leverage even more short term cash using the team's IP and factory and wind tunnel and technology and other assets as collatoral. The second option may buy them another year or two of survival, but the first option would be far better for them in the long run.



#41 EthanM

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:13

Thing is, Lotus need money now, not promises to inject money. They wouldn't agree to promises, they have to pay their drivers, their staff, their suppliers. So unless you do have some insider info, i don't see the point in speculating about the details of the deal and whether it's better if it doesn't go forward. Or digging up domains registered by DomainsByProxy.

 

It's not like we didn't know who was behind Infinity/Quantum months ago, isn't it? So why now the focus on Ijaz? He's heading Quantum, but the majority of the money was always supposed to come from Brunei, not his own company.

 

StefanGP is a completely different story and has nothing to do with this. 

 

OK so has he injected any money in the six months he claims to be "an owner" of Lotus F1 ?



#42 dau

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:19

OK so has he injected any money in the six months he claims to be "an owner" of Lotus F1 ?

You mean the six months the deal hadn't been completed? No. We are talking about present and future, aren't we?

 

@redreni: Yes, i can certainly see Lotus surviving that. With all those non-shady characters just waiting in line to fund F1 teams. It's amazing how Lopez manages to do anything when he's so busy fending off investors and sponsors who would just love to throw money at him. What a great time for F1 teams. 


Edited by dau, 06 November 2013 - 17:20.


#43 Module

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:31

It's realy wierd and realy hard to find any info on any of the companies under Quantum.

http://joesaward.wor...-into-lotus-f1/

 

Universal Sports Group, a lot of companies have this name in US and one in Brunei. But this company doesn't have any preference shares in Quantum. The only reason for speculation of royalty is that it is registered in Brunei. Does the Queen own McLaren?

 

Crescent Investment Management owns 70 % of preference shares. Ijaz claims 2,3 Billion in capital, yet you can't find any info apart from this: http://www.manta.com...ment-management

 

And then Al Manhal International Group. Owns 30 % of preferance shares. http://www.almanhal-...om/contact.html . If you want to contact them and ask more those in US can contact them on their mail in Salt Lake City: amrol@siciliapizza.net

 

The wierd thing is also that we are talking about companies with hundreds of millions or billions and they are all registered on names that aren't unique so it is extremely hard to find any info. And if you look for visibility in F1 why take the exact same name as a British company? Sorry Italians and Germans but F1 is 90 % British!!!

 

I'm confused and can understand Kimi more and more....


Edited by Module, 06 November 2013 - 17:33.


#44 dau

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:36

Of course it's hard to find info. The more money involved, the more complicated it gets. I mean, just take a look at the F1 company structure:

 

f1-company-structure1.jpg



#45 redreni

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:46

You mean the six months the deal hadn't been completed? No. We are talking about present and future, aren't we?

 

@redreni: Yes, i can certainly see Lotus surviving that. With all those non-shady characters just waiting in line to fund F1 teams. It's amazing how Lopez manages to do anything when he's so busy fending off investors and sponsors who would just love to throw money at him. What a great time for F1 teams. 

 

If you can't find a sponsor, some might argue the sensible thing is to drop your price until you find one, then live within a reduced budget. Rather than running for three years with "Lotus" written on your cars despite having nothing to do with Lotus and getting no money from them. Other teams manage to survive without spending a lot of money they haven't got. Other teams manage to find sponsors. Mr Lopez obviously has his own unique way of approaching these problems, though, and we'll see how successful that is in the medium term.



#46 swerved

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:56

Thing is, Lotus need money now, not promises to inject money. They wouldn't agree to promises, they have to pay their drivers, their staff, their suppliers. So unless you do have some insider info, i don't see the point in speculating about the details of the deal and whether it's better if it doesn't go forward. Or digging up domains registered by DomainsByProxy.

 

It's not like we didn't know who was behind Infinity/Quantum months ago, isn't it? So why now the focus on Ijaz? He's heading Quantum, but the majority of the money was always supposed to come from Brunei, not his own company.

 

StefanGP is a completely different story and has nothing to do with this. 

 

 

For me the reason to focus on Ijaz is that he's the one making all the bold claims in the F1 press, this deal may well come to fruition, but the reality is that Lotus F1's apparent new owner has a history dating back years and years of making bold claims, usually involving other peoples money, and usually involving wealthy and/or powerful people that he's not at liberty to name.

 

 

 

 

He has a history of failed projects, like the Aquarius Towers Las Vegas, or the even more impressive the Hydropolis underwater Hotel

 

 

 

"The group behind Dubai’s US$500 million underwater hotel says work on the venture could start in the first quarter of next year, and is considering the opening of another undersea development off the coast of Oman.

Mansoor Ijaz, chief executive of Crescent Hydropolis Resorts (CHR), told Arabian Business the firm was close to receiving the green light from the Dubai government to start work on the project, and hoped to commercially launch the hotel in 2008. When it was originally announced two years ago, the hotel was expected to open in late 2006. “We are certainly keen as management to see Hydropolis Dubai beginning construction sometime during the later part of the first quarter of 2006, but this will depend on finalising the parameters with the Dubai Development and Investment Authority,” said Ijaz. “If we get things up and running by that time, we hope that Dubai still has a realistic chance of finishing before 2008.”

 

 

http://www.skyscrape...t=116316&page=8

 

 

 

Who knows what "promises" Lopez would or wouldn't agree to ? and who knows what would happen if this deal doesn't go through, either way Mt Ijaz has declared himself an owner of Lotus F1 and since doing so has made some pretty bold claims, there's a pattern to his behaviour, one seen in many of his other business deals, it remains to be seen whether Lotus will be added to his list of failures, or one of his seemingly rare success's.



#47 dau

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 17:57

If you can't find a sponsor, some might argue the sensible thing is to drop your price until you find one, then live within a reduced budget. Rather than running for three years with "Lotus" written on your cars despite having nothing to do with Lotus and getting no money from them. Other teams manage to survive without spending a lot of money they haven't got. Other teams manage to find sponsors. Mr Lopez obviously has his own unique way of approaching these problems, though, and we'll see how successful that is in the medium term.

They can hardly find sponsors when fighting at the very top. It's not going to be easier once they're in the midfield.

 

Other teams manage to survive, sure. Sauber seems to be saved after acquiring their own dodgy investors. Force India is even run by of two of those. Williams has a walking wallet driving one of their cars and got a special deal from Bernie. I'm sorry, but looking at the financial state of most F1 teams, i just find it hard to be as optimistic as you are.


Edited by dau, 06 November 2013 - 17:59.


#48 Amphicar

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 18:43

I have no idea whether Mr Ijaz is a genuine investor or not - but it wouldn't be the first time a Lotus Formula 1 team has fallen for a smooth line of patter from a multimillionaire who turned out to be a man of straw. I give you David Thiemme and Essex Petroleum, who sponsored the real Team Lotus in 1980. The deal collapsed mid-way through 1981, when Essex Petroleum went belly-up and Thiemme did time for fraud:

 

Lotus81B-4-small.jpg



#49 redreni

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 18:57

They can hardly find sponsors when fighting at the very top. It's not going to be easier once they're in the midfield.


Well it might if they changed the management. Would you want to associate your brand with a team that doesn‘t pay its bills, lies blatantly and in public about whether they have paid their star driver, and washes its dirty linnen in public (e.g. the Behar/Lopez social media incident).

I take your point that other teams are struggling too but they‘ve at least found ways to reign in their spending and/or increase their income so that they can live within their means. As far as I know Sauber‘s staff and suppliers have been paid, as has the Hulk.

#50 dau

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 19:22

Well it might if they changed the management. Would you want to associate your brand with a team that doesn‘t pay its bills, lies blatantly and in public about whether they have paid their star driver, and washes its dirty linnen in public (e.g. the Behar/Lopez social media incident).

I take your point that other teams are struggling too but they‘ve at least found ways to reign in their spending and/or increase their income so that they can live within their means. As far as I know Sauber‘s staff and suppliers have been paid, as has the Hulk.

Hulkenberg has not been payed a dime according to Vettel a few days ago. Which was rumoured for quite a long time before that. A few months ago, Peter Sauber admitted that several suppliers were yet to be payed after some companies went to the press to publicly complain about Sauber's business practices. What happened since then is pretty much unclear, as is the state of the Russian deal. 

 

So, at least in Sauber's case, the ways they've found include exactly the same type of dodgy businessmen that Lopez is courting now. And as with Sauber, we won't know how the story ends until the fat lady has sung. Look, i'm not happy with that situation either. Personally, i wouldn't even buy a used car from Ijaz. Well, unless i really, really needed one right now and he would be the only person within 500km to have one on offer. And i think that's basically Lotus' situation right now. 


Edited by dau, 06 November 2013 - 19:23.