674 replies to this topic

[Rinehart]

Agree, if I was JB I would be worried by KM (I am as a fan) but was never worried 12 months ago.

[WitnessX]

I think it is fairly understandable Button might want Perez to stay.

 

Despite what some say in this thread Button has had the upper hand over Perez consistently this season. Remember the team look at all the dat from every lap - not just the odd 1 lap quali where Perez came out a fraction ahead.

 

So if you are Button what would you rather have - an obvious no2 in Perez who is mostly slower and has show very little racecraft or a young guy who by all accounts has been posting quicker times in tests and the simulator and is likely going to give it everything now he has his chance ?

 

.. and thats why he jumped ship to McLaren because he knew he would have a slower team-mate  ???

 

He obviously is after the WDC and WCC as the primary objectives. You have to have a good car to do that and good development to advance that especially next year.  With limited testing the drivers have to share development responsibilities. What they will have beginning of next year is one driver "learning" instead actively pushing the development... which isn't going to help make the car better.

 

So if I was Button I would want the most experienced driver.

[Maustinsj]

where do i start, one of the big danish newspapers has a headline stating button is angry because they signed kevin, and turns out all he said was he preffered one withf1 experience, that its a bold move. Not to mention all the so called F1 experts in denmark - Kevin will be champion in 1 year, kevin will be champion in 3 years etc. etc. And they base in on what??? jeezzz i only heard only journalists saying lets se how the car will be, all the other motorsports people/journalists speculate, without basing it on reality, rational thinking, knowledge. But offcourse it is big news for a small country like denmark still the level is, exceptionally low. But ill share all i can if there is meaningful knowledge to be shared :-)

 

That's a general description of many journalists, to be honest - in all fields, motorsport or otherwise. Unfortunately.

Edited by Maustinsj, 15 November 2013 - 12:08.

[Suntrek]

I feel really sorry for Perez. He was overhyped in 2012 - when people forgot his good results at Sauber was more down to tyre-handling than actual race performance. He was even pointed out as a future Ferrari driver (but they were wise enough to be level-headed, not buying the hype)

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102478

 

That said, the guy has good potential´and he certainly deserves a seat,  but as I see it people - including McLaren management who obviously bought the hype - now are disappointed because he didn't score the podiums he did at Sauber. Totally forgetting his podiums at Sauber was all down to tyre management.

[Dalton007]

Agree, if I was JB I would be worried by KM (I am as a fan) but was never worried 12 months ago.

 

I would expect KM to be consistently quicker by the end of 2014.

Let's remember that Button handled Lewis reasonably well.

[redreni]

I feel really sorry for Perez. He was overhyped in 2012 - when people forgot his good results at Sauber was more down to tyre-handling than actual race performance. He was even pointed out as a future Ferrari driver (but they were wise enough to be level-headed, not buying the hype)

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102478

 

That said, the guy has good potential´and he certainly deserves a seat,  but as I see it people - including McLaren management who obviously bought the hype - now are disappointed because he didn't score the podiums he did at Sauber. Totally forgetting his podiums at Sauber was all down to tyre management.

 

All results in the current era of F1 are down to tyre management.

[redreni]

I don't see what Perez lacks compared to Button.

 

25 points for starters. In a car that's barely capable of scoring regular points, that's a big margin.

[Dalton007]

25 points for starters. In a car that's barely capable of scoring regular points, that's a big margin.

 

And Jenson hasn't scored points in two races because of contact.

[bogi]

Lewis Hamilton believes Kevin Magnussen will be mega quick in F1

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111331

 

"He seems like a very intelligent young lad. He's always pleasant when I see him, and he's obviously very quick.

 

[ensign14]

25 points for starters. In a car that's barely capable of scoring regular points, that's a big margin.

 

He'd only be 2 behind on the historical scoring basis.  And he'd be one 6th behind on the medals system. 

 

Interestingly, perhaps, he'd be on 60% of Button's score on the historic system; barely a tick above the 58% he's currently on.  So despite the tinkering over the years with the points there is not really that much change.

[DanardiF1]

And Jenson hasn't scored points in two races because of contact.

 

And in another because of a team error (5th place or possibly even better at Malaysia)

[TheUltimateWorrier]

Is Perez a bad driver? No obviously not, but he will have had 3 full seasons in F1 when this one is over that is enough for F1 to know what they have, Perez is who they think he is. There should be a greater turnover in F1.

 

Di Resta is who we think he is, and will never be WDC or Grand Prix winner.

Sutil is who we think he is, and will never be WDC or Grand Prix winner.

Perez is who we think he is, and will never be WDC or or Grand Prix winner.

Vergne is who we think he is, and will never be WDC or or Grand Prix winner.

Gutierrez is who we think he is, and will never be WDC or or Grand Prix winner.

Pic is who we think he is, and will never be WDC or or Grand Prix winner.

Van der Garde is who we think he is, and will never be WDC or or Grand Prix winner.

Chilton is who we think he is, and will never be WDC or or Grand Prix winner.

 

 

I'm going to bookmark this, so that when one of these drivers wins a race (or a championship   ) in however many years, I can quote this and say "Driver Whatever is who we think he is, but we thought wrong."

 

 

Disappointed for Perez, but I'm looking forward to Magnussen. It's a golden chance for him. A bit like Button against Villeneuve at BAR, Magnussen has a chance here to cement some serious credentials against a former world champion.

[KWSN - DSM]

 

I'm going to bookmark this, so that when one of these drivers wins a race (or a championship   ) in however many years, I can quote this and say "Driver Whatever is who we think he is, but we thought wrong."

 

 

Disappointed for Perez, but I'm looking forward to Magnussen. It's a golden chance for him. A bit like Button against Villeneuve at BAR, Magnussen has a chance here to cement some serious credentials against a former world champion.

 

Go ahead, I have been wrong before and are bound to be wrong again.

 

As have been said before, this is a place for views and opinions. Last season after race 1, I was skewering Maldonado over and open fire, and 4 races later had to eat humble pie, I was certain that Button would never live up to his hype, and here we are +10 wins and a WDC later. But I am as close as can be to guarantee that none of the mentioned will ever win a World Championship for drivers.

 

[sennafan24]

I hope Magnussen lives up to the hype.

 

A new top driver has not come on to the scene since 2008/2009 time when Seb stormed onto the scene. Be nice to have a fresh driver to take the sport by storm.

Edited by sennafan24, 15 November 2013 - 15:14.

[Suntrek]

All results in the current era of F1 are down to tyre management.

True, but let me put it this way instead.

 

The Sauber of 2012 did often allow for one less pitstop than the others. Hence Perez hype.

Edited by Suntrek, 15 November 2013 - 15:20.

[redreni]

True, but let me put it this way instead.

 

The Sauber of 2012 did often allow for one less pitstop than the others. Hence Perez hype.

 

And Perez's 2012 Sauber often allowed for one less pitstop than Kobayashi's.

 

I really don't think there was anything illusory or unreal or flukey about the good results Perez got in 2012, except inasmuch as everybody was at different points on a relatively steep learning curve with those tyres for the first third of the season, and then later in the season when everybody reached the plateua on that learning curve, Sauber reverted to being not very good and Perez reverted to being slower than Kobayashi. So I'll give you that Perez wasn't able to sustain his early season form because it was largely based on him hitting the sweetspot on the tyres while a lot of other drivers and teams who would normally run ahead of him were still struggling. And there may have been an element of luck about that, because it certainly didn't happen again in the early part of this season when people were struggling to come to terms with the 2013 rubber.

[redreni]

And Jenson hasn't scored points in two races because of contact.

 

Nevertheless if you look at the season as a whole and not just the last two races Button has outperformed Perez by a comfortable margin. 

[Afterburner]

Not exactly on-topic, but I've had a bit of a laugh walking into this thread. For so long, I've been used to reading 'KR' and 'FM' as initialisms representing former teammates that I first read 'KM' as 'Kimi Massanen'.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

Go ahead, I have been wrong before and are bound to be wrong again.

 

As have been said before, this is a place for views and opinions. Last season after race 1, I was skewering Maldonado over and open fire, and 4 races later had to eat humble pie, I was certain that Button would never live up to his hype, and here we are +10 wins and a WDC later. But I am as close as can be to guarantee that none of the mentioned will ever win a World Championship for drivers.

 

 

I agree with you though. Unless Caterham, Force India or Sauber come up with a rocketship next year, I don't see any of those guys winning, races or championships, either.  It is nice to be proven wrong sometimes though. I thought Grosjean was going to tank this season and continue to be a crashkid, but he's been a revelation this year. Still, one, two or five years time, I'll be interested to see if any of those names you mentioned won a race or not.

[redreni]

He'd only be 2 behind on the historical scoring basis.  And he'd be one 6th behind on the medals system. 

 

Interestingly, perhaps, he'd be on 60% of Button's score on the historic system; barely a tick above the 58% he's currently on.  So despite the tinkering over the years with the points there is not really that much change.

 

The points system is what it is. You have to drive accordingly. If it was like it was in the 90s, you'd be prepared to take a pretty sizeable risk if you were running 7th in order to try to get 6th, whereas now you've got something to lose if you're seventh so you would likely take a more measured approach as the cost/benefit ratio in any attempted pass is radically different. So you can't say what the standings would be under a different points system as drivers and teams would approach certain situations differently.

 

As it is both drivers knew at the start of the season what the points system was, both have driven accordingly, and Button has 60 points to Perez's 35.

[KWSN - DSM]

Reliability now does not really make comparison with the 1 through 6 getting points quite a 1 to 1. Case in point Ghinzani made all of 2 points in his career, but by the current system would have had 40. This compare pretty well to:

 

Maldonado 47 points even with a win!!

Vergne 29 points

Ricciardo 29 points

 

Do I think that all of them are better than Paolo was, yes I think so but I can not really be sure.

 

[Raziel]

I just wonder....how long will it take until F1 "fans" start hating and badmouthing this young down-to-earth kid like they did with Lewis Hamilton? After his first win? His first title for McLaren? After he create twitter account? Or maybe after his first "unpleasant" interview? I know that there will be people waiting and reading his every interview to take something out of context to have a reason to attack the kid. I know that it´ll be the same story all over again in the next few years, just like it was with Lewis. At the start of his career he´ll be F1 sweetheart (LH syndrome) but assuming that he´ll be fast, successful, with a title of the F1 star , all of a sudden, enormous jealousy and hate by some "F1 fans" will prevail. It´s a thin line between love and hate, we have seen that with LH.....some people just can't handle other people's success and that´s a really shame and big fault in today's society

[sopa]

I just wonder....how long will it take until F1 "fans" start hating and badmouthing this young down-to-earth kid like they did with Lewis Hamilton? After his first win? His first title for McLaren? After he create twitter account? Or maybe after his first "unpleasant" interview? I know that there will be people waiting and reading his every interview to take something out of context to have a reason to attack the kid. I know that it´ll be the same story all over again in the next few years, just like it was with Lewis. At the start of his career he´ll be F1 sweetheart (LH syndrome) but assuming that he´ll be fast, successful, with a title of the F1 star , all of a sudden, enormous jealousy and hate by some "F1 fans" will prevail. It´s a thin line between love and hate, we have seen that with LH.....some people just can't handle other people's success and that´s a really shame and big fault in today's society

 

Let's put it this way. The kid may seem down-to-earth (who doesn't look pleasant, when they first arrive in F1?), but people don't know the details of his character yet. However, fanbases will be formed based on how he drives on the track and which kind of character he is. As always, regardless of the character, there will always be people, who dislike that kind of person. Because it seems so far away from what they themselves are. No character is "perfect", you can always find bits and pieces you can find annoying if you are a different kind of person and can't relate to him. Doesn't really matter what it is - "an unpleasant interview" (looks pleasant to one, unpleasant to other, matter of definition), post-race celebration (finger), a bit dirty/risky or conversely softy driving style based on your taste. Outspoken or silent - whatever it is, can again be unpleasant to some groups of people. Etc. Basically anything.

[KWSN - DSM]

Some fans will always dislike some drivers for reasonable or unreasonable reasons. I think that there is a general dislike of Maldonado, does he deserve all the vitrol? Most likely not, but he is not making himself more likeable by saying he will be happy to leave Williams. Does Di Resta deserve all that is being thrown at him? Most likely not, but he does not making himself more likeable with how he approach and comment on any and all issues he has. Does Vettel deserve what is thrown at him? Is the finger really that big a deal? Should he not be upset over the booking? Yes he should, and all drivers celebrate in their own way, disliking a driver for a silly finger is not really the way to go. Are there fans who do not like Lewis Hamilton? Yes there are, but there are fans disliking all drivers. Is Alonso disliked? By some I am sure, should be not be better at not throwing all the toys out the pram when things do not go his way? He is no different in that respect compared to Di Resta, but he has the benefit of two WDC's, and ebing acknowledged as one of the top 3 drivers in the world, so he can to an extent 'demand' better.

 

Surely some will find faults with Kevin Magnussen, he is too boring, he is too corporate, he does not beat Button, he is way behind Button, Perez would have been the better choice, he was rushed and does not really have the talent.

 

We are all here because we like and follow F1, but we can not like all drivers and teams. That is why we disagree in all threads regardless of the topic.

 

[Nobody]

I'd say some in the 'pack' are already waiting for the first opportunity, heck I've already seen it when he dumped the GP2 test

[FullThrottleF1]

I feel that Button holds more power in McLaren than he let's on :-)

[coppilcus]

And Perez's 2012 Sauber often allowed for one less pitstop than Kobayashi's.
 
I really don't think there was anything illusory or unreal or flukey about the good results Perez got in 2012, except inasmuch as everybody was at different points on a relatively steep learning curve with those tyres for the first third of the season, and then later in the season when everybody reached the plateua on that learning curve, Sauber reverted to being not very good and Perez reverted to being slower than Kobayashi. So I'll give you that Perez wasn't able to sustain his early season form because it was largely based on him hitting the sweetspot on the tyres while a lot of other drivers and teams who would normally run ahead of him were still struggling. And there may have been an element of luck about that, because it certainly didn't happen again in the early part of this season when people were struggling to come to terms with the 2013 rubber.

Perez was downplayed in the first part of the season because he qualified behind Kamui and got 'lucky' in some races because good strategies from Sauber, on thee second part of the season he qualified ahead of Kamui and ruined some races on mistakes... but still faster than Kamui on race days.

[ensign14]

 

Do I think that all of them are better than Paolo was, yes I think so but I can not really be sure.

 

 

Piercarlo.

 

I actually think Peter Charles was under-rated, he was very decently fast in a 962 as well as the Lancia, and his drive at Monaco 1984 is too often overlooked because of Senna and Bellof's drives.  Had it not been for a dodgy push-start for a Ferrari he'd've been in the points there as well.

[V3TT3L]

I really don't like the bloke after his Monaco driver all over Kimi, but according to this Marca article McLaren was very dirty with Checo. 

 

http://www.marca.com...1384512372.html

 

They told him to stay calm [on Nov 3rd] that he would be in the team next year.

McLaren made a contract and sent to Perez, that signed and returned it.

Then Mclaren told him he was out, very late in the silly season market and almost with nowhere to go   

 

FU Mclaren

[JRizzle86]

I really don't like the bloke after his Monaco driver all over Kimi, but according to this Marca article McLaren was very dirty with Checo. 

 

http://www.marca.com...1384512372.html

 

They told him to stay calm [on Nov 3rd] that he would be in the team next year.

McLaren made a contract and sent to Perez, that signed and returned it.

Then Mclaren told him he was out, very late in the silly season market and almost with nowhere to go 

 

FU Mclaren

Yeah because Marca has always been impartial when it comes to writing about McLaren.........

 

Lets face it Perez had the opportunity to impress in comparison to his team mate he didn't. I can't wait until I see Magnussen in the car in 2014 and the potential he may or may not bring. 

Edited by JRizzle86, 15 November 2013 - 18:34.

[Jamiednm]

Are we going to have people moaning about a rookie going straight in to a top team again, or was that nonsense just reserved for certain drivers?

[coppilcus]

Yeah because Marca has always been impartial when it comes to writing about McLaren.........
 
Lets face it Perez had the opportunity to impress in comparison to his team mate he didn't. I can't wait until I see Magnussen in the car in 2014 and the potential he may or may not bring.

... based on an interview with Sergio on Reforma, a Mexican newspaper. Perez said he signed his contract on Monday (November 4), send it to the team expecting to made an announcement on Austin and in Friday (November 8) received a 'two minute call' by Whitmarsh on which was told that he could start looking for another seat the net season:

http://www.cancha.co...x?id=149532&v=4

[olliek88]

I really don't like the bloke after his Monaco driver all over Kimi, but according to this Marca article McLaren was very dirty with Checo. 

 

http://www.marca.com...1384512372.html

 

They told him to stay calm [on Nov 3rd] that he would be in the team next year.

McLaren made a contract and sent to Perez, that signed and returned it.

Then Mclaren told him he was out, very late in the silly season market and almost with nowhere to go 

 

FU Mclaren

 

Still, about 2 months more time than you get as a Toro Rosso driver...

[KWSN - DSM]

If Perez keeps this talking on, we will see Kevin in Brazil.

 

[nosecone]

if it was really like this, i am disappointed by McLaren, even as a fan of them. you have to treat everyone with respect, thus you should say him early if he has to find another seat for next year or not. I expected more style from Whitmarsh and McLaren.

Edited by nosecone, 15 November 2013 - 20:06.

[coppilcus]

If Perez keeps this talking on, we will see Kevin in Brazil.

He shouldn't be running this week end either, it's stupid... It's obvious the relationship is broken, tense and distant. Of course we do not know what happened on reality but could be on monetary terms only, McLaren negotiated very hard with the sponsors putting Perez head at a stick every GP since the summer brake, very naive on part of the team directors...

What they were expecting? All the eggs from just one basket after treating the hen like rubbish?

Edited by coppilcus, 15 November 2013 - 20:21.

[bogi]

I think Perez made biggest mistake running around without manager and contract signed late into season, hope he will learn from this mistake.

[JRizzle86]

... based on an interview with Sergio on Reforma, a Mexican newspaper. Perez said he signed his contract on Monday (November 4), send it to the team expecting to made an announcement on Austin and in Friday (November 8) received a 'two minute call' by Whitmarsh on which was told that he could start looking for another seat the net season:

http://www.cancha.co...x?id=149532&v=4

It's a dog eat dog world out there. If Perez is such a good driver, he should have no trouble getting a drive for next year.

[KWSN - DSM]

We have seen the last couple of seasons, that either you have a contract signed by the team, or you are out pounding all doors offering your services. There are drivers not in F1, due they saw themselves as secure in a seat.

 

[V3TT3L]

Its sad to be kicked out of the team like that before his 'home race'.

 

Good managers can do wonders, for instance Kimi.

 

Bad or no managers, look at Hulkenberg and Perez.

[PARAZAR]

I can't help but feel sorry for Perez.

[SpaMaster]

... based on an interview with Sergio on Reforma, a Mexican newspaper. Perez said he signed his contract on Monday (November 4), send it to the team expecting to made an announcement on Austin and in Friday (November 8) received a 'two minute call' by Whitmarsh on which was told that he could start looking for another seat the net season:

http://www.cancha.co...x?id=149532&v=4

Says who? Perez? It has been quite clear even for outsiders that Magnussen is slated to be signed up and Button was going to be in the other seat. And Perez says he signed the contract and was expecting to be announced? He is either unbelievably delusional or flat-out lying..

[nomi]

http://www.gptoday.c...16arrogant8217/

[redreni]

Perez was downplayed in the first part of the season because he qualified behind Kamui and got 'lucky' in some races because good strategies from Sauber, on thee second part of the season he qualified ahead of Kamui and ruined some races on mistakes... but still faster than Kamui on race days.

Just because you qualify ahead of somebody doesn‘t make you faster than him. The faster driver is the one who takes less time to complete the race distance. Speed=distance/time

[sheogorath]

So, apparently the Mexico flag Macca is flying on their store has a cannabis leaf on it.

 

 

Edited by sheogorath, 15 November 2013 - 22:36.

[Collective]

Those are normally local distributors and the teams have nothing to do with them.

 

Extremely poor taste, but Macca is not involved.

[peroa]

Well, another question is why the hell wasn't the kid in the car in FP1?

Another strategic error, which in hindsight...

[bogi]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=j-xfZRk-5qI

[Buttoneer]

http://www.gptoday.c...16arrogant8217/

Not the first time we've heard this but glad it's not a pair of evil racist Brits saying it this time.

[Fastcake]

Well, another question is why the hell wasn't the kid in the car in FP1?

Another strategic error, which in hindsight...

 

Does he need to be put in the car right now? He's got experience from the young drivers test, and will be driving the new car when testing starts. One practice outing doesn't serve much purpose.