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AMuS on 2014 F1 team's payments & WDC / WCC bonus [Merged]


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#1 V3TT3L

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 14:51

The magazine brings detailed information on team payments based on [edit/ 'a projection of'] 2013 WCC final standings and history in the sport.

 

http://www.auto-moto...ms-7910703.html

 

'Actually these numbers from Bernie Ecclestone's cash dispensing machine are strictly confidential. We will tell you how much that team gets 2014. Based on the current championship standings. General trend: the big teams creams from far more than the small.' Google

Rights holders CVC must pay out 68.7 percent of total revenue next year. These are around 840 million dollars. So far, there were around 55 percent. But the extended windfall comes only with large teams. The small one can starve on the long arm .

 

In USD [WDC Rank + Bonus]

  1. RedBull $ 162M [90 + 72]

  2. Ferrari $ 171M [72 + 99]

  3. Mercedes $ 92M [80 + 12]

  4. Lotus $ 65M [65 + 0]

  5. McLaren $ 74M [62 + 12]

  6. Force India $ 59M [59 + 0]

  7. Sauber $ 53M [53 + 0]

  8. ToroRosso $ 50M [50 + 0]

  9. Williams $ 56M [47 + 9]

10. Caterham $ 40M [40 + 0]

11. Marussia $ 20M [Fixed per Bernie agreement]

 

PS.: As per the house rules, can't post the whole article due to copyright issues   :o So I recommend to google the article since I don't read German.

 

In USD [WDC Rank]

  1. Fota WCC $ 90 M

  2. Fota WCC $ 72 M

  3. Fota WCC $ 80 M

  4. Fota WCC $ 65 M

  5. Fota WCC $ 62 M

  6. Fota WCC $ 59 M

  7. Fota WCC $ 53 M

  8. Fota WCC $ 50 M

  9. Fota WCC $ 47 M

10. Fota WCC $ 40 M

11. Marussia  $ 20 M [Fixed per Bernie agreement]

 

In USD [Team Bonus]

Ferrari $ 99 M

RedBull $ 72 M

Mercedes $ 12 M

McLaren $ 12 M

Williams $ 9 M


Edited by V3TT3L, 16 November 2013 - 16:54.


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#2 turssi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:08

The order of the teams is wrong?



#3 Andrew Hope

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:10

It's in WCC standings not dollar amount.

 

That's painful reading, when I think about how I'd sell my soul for about twenty bucks at this point.



#4 RosannaG

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:11

The order of the teams is wrong?

 

I think the order goes by rank. 



#5 turssi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:13

It's in WCC standings not dollar amount.

 

That's painful reading, when I think about how I'd sell my soul for about twenty bucks at this point.

 

It's still wrong.



#6 RosannaG

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:16

It's still wrong.

 

Yes sir, you are right. Now, I'm lost.  :well:



#7 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:17

forget the order, it's got no bearing on the story/thread

First number is amount for position in WCC, second amount is Bernie's participation fee



#8 amppatel

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:17

It's still wrong.

 

Ferrari get a bonus the brackets means how much bonus they get [ $ due to championship standing + $ due to bonus ]

 

Interesting that Bernie thinks that McLaren should get the same bonus as Merc



#9 RosannaG

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:20

forget the order, it's got no bearing on the story/thread

First number is amount for position in WCC, second amount is Bernie's participation fee

 

That's what I thought but Mercedes is ahead of Ferrari in WCC, I don't know... 



#10 turssi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:20

forget the order, it's got no bearing on the story/thread

First number is amount for position in WCC, second amount is Bernie's participation fee

 

Does that mean Marussia is excluded from the WCC money?

 

And that 3rd gets more than 2nd?


Edited by turssi, 16 November 2013 - 15:21.


#11 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:21

Does that mean Marussia is excluded from the WCC money?

Officially yes, only top 10 get money. Bernie made a seperate agreement to give them something



#12 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:22

That's what I thought but Mercedes is ahead of Ferrari in WCC, I don't know... 

They are thats why they get more WCC money, they should be 2nd in the list if you want the list to be accurate chronologically



#13 turssi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:25

Officially yes, only top 10 get money. Bernie made a seperate agreement to give them something

 

But they are 10th.



#14 turssi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:26

They are thats why they get more WCC money, they should be 2nd in the list if you want the list to be accurate chronologically

 

The list is not accurate considering WCC rank, total money mentioned, WCC money mentioned or Bonus money mentioned. How can we consider it accurate in any way?



#15 RosannaG

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:26

They are thats why they get more WCC money, they should be 2nd in the list if you want the list to be accurate chronologically

 

OK! Thanks! I started to go a little nuts with this list.  :drunk:



#16 turssi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:32

The only thing that is more ridiculous than the order of the teams is the amount of Bonus Money that goes to Ferrari and RBR!

 

Talk about a level playing field....


Edited by turssi, 16 November 2013 - 15:33.


#17 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:33

Yeah these figures seem to be a mix of what they would get this year based on WCC as it is now and what Marussia nad catherham got based on last year.

 

* I am not 100% sure how it works, AFAIK only top 10 get FOM money and Bernie gave Marussia an amount to keep them quiet and possible sign the CA



#18 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:35

The only thing that is more ridiculous than the order of the teams is the amount of Bonus Money that goes to Ferrari and RBR!

 

Talk about a level playing field....

RBR's bonus money is quite recent. I don't get why Merc get when Lotus/Renault don't, especially that Merc and McLaren get the same.



#19 Exb

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 15:42

Forget the order - how do Red Bull get a bonus of £72 million, what is that for? How can that possibly be justified.
Also Ferrari on 99 million compared to say McLaren on 12 million - just why? I really don't like this bonus system, they should split the £200 odd million bonus money and just give each team an extra 20 million on top of there prize money - would help the less well funded teams no end.

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#20 V3TT3L

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 16:29

I understand Marussia is not a FOTA member, so their agreement is different.



#21 P123

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 16:37

RBR's bonus money is quite recent. I don't get why Merc get when Lotus/Renault don't, especially that Merc and McLaren get the same.

 

Mercedes is for their recent unbroken period in the sport, as engine supplier and then team owner.



#22 Anderis

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 16:41

That's horrible if true.



#23 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 16:42

They should give all the teams an equal share and then let them earn performance based money via sponsorship. I'd rather see the backfield teams with a little more stable finances. 



#24 TomNokoe

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 16:46

So bar Red Bull, Ferrari's "bonus" is worth more than any of the other teams monies winnings+bonus.

 

Ludicrous. 



#25 V3TT3L

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 16:46

Forget the order - how do Red Bull get a bonus of £72 million, what is that for? How can that possibly be justified.
Also Ferrari on 99 million compared to say McLaren on 12 million - just why? I really don't like this bonus system, they should split the £200 odd million bonus money and just give each team an extra 20 million on top of there prize money - would help the less well funded teams no end.

Ferrari is part of F1 since its conception.

So Ferrari has a big stake in F1.

Also marketing research says a lot of people follow F1 due to Ferrari.

 

RedBull has 4 cars in the grid or almost 20% of it.

Also they help to promote the show a lot through their channels.

So does Ferrari partners: Shell, Santander, Acer, TNT, etc.



#26 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 16:47

That makes it sound like it's a burden for Ferrari to be in F1 and they don't gain for it, so they need extra compensation. 



#27 V3TT3L

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 16:48

Mercedes is for their recent unbroken period in the sport, as engine supplier and then team owner.

The AMuS article mentions that Mercedes relation with Bernie was 'broken', so Lauda was called to build the burned bridge.


Edited by V3TT3L, 16 November 2013 - 16:49.


#28 stillOrange

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 17:00

This is probably very stupid and extremely far from the truth but I would like to think that RBR's large bonus is there because they totally excel in this sport ...

#29 Alburaq

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 17:02

Ferrari $ 99 M
RedBull $ 72 M
Mercedes $ 12 M
McLaren $ 12 M
Williams $ 9 M

 
eusa_doh.gif
And what about Enstone ? and Renault ? what about those teams and constructors who are in F1 since decades and who won races and titles and formed great drivers and engineers ? what about old teams like Sauber ?  :rolleyes:


Edited by Alburaq, 16 November 2013 - 17:03.


#30 ensign14

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 17:06

So bar Red Bull, Ferrari's "bonus" is worth more than any of the other teams monies winnings+bonus.

 

Ludicrous. 

 

Blame the tifosi.  Like the Singaporean Man Ure fans, they are a blight on the sport.  Not interested in the wider context but only interested in seeing "their" team win.  Even though their only emotional attachment is by being brainwashed by marketing and hype.



#31 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 17:23

Indeed, the bonus system in F1, that Bernie has created, must be one of the most outrageous and unfair constructions one can possible imagine to be found in any sports.

 

I do understand that a little incentive can be given to the top names of F1 -- outside of the racing results then, but to dish out $99 million to one team simply for their participation is effing ridiculous. Of the total bonus pool of $204 million, Bernie pays for two teams $171 million combined (Ferrari and RBR) and three more teams get $33 million between themselves (McLaren, Mercedes and Williams). The rest of the teams probably get a x-mas card or something.

 

In other words, Ferrari and RBR receive bigger bonuses per annum than some teams entire budget. Where is the sporting spirit in that?

 

Something has got to change.



#32 KingTiger

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 17:30

What a horribly run "sport". 



#33 ATM

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 17:35

Well, something will change when other great names with big budgets will enter the sport. 

Ferrari cannot be reached from the historical point of view. RBR has pumped money in the F1 past using large hoses. They have leverage , others don't (or didn't have the balls to threaten Bernie with an all-out walkaway from the championship). Thus, we arrived to this ludicrous bonus split. But, that's the way it is. 

 

(not that this arrangement is unlike real life, you know. Some big-shots get the big cheese, others pay a mortgage for a crummy paper house until their grave...and after that the mortgage goes to their siblings). 


Edited by ATM, 16 November 2013 - 17:36.


#34 ensign14

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 18:02

Perhaps also this revelation puts recent driving achievements into some sort of context.  If you need to go up 10 technological blind alleys for every 0.1s improvement, Ferrari and Red Bull can basically buy a second from Mercedes, let alone Marussia.

 

And that's before one takes into account sponsorship income.



#35 Risil

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 18:06

Disgraceful.

 

I'm surprised Mclaren's negotiated "Bernie bonus" is relatively small too.


Edited by Risil, 16 November 2013 - 18:08.


#36 KingTiger

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 18:29

I hope Mercedes, McLaren and every big sponsor left quit their participation in this joke as soon as possible. What a disgrace. 



#37 F1Champion

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 18:42

Shocked at the difference between RB and Mercedes/Lotus.....nearly $100m....! No small team is going to move forward with funding gaps like these. It really is the piranha club.

 

The bonus gap (history) between Ferrari/RB and McLaren/Williams is ridiculous. An absolute farce. Ferrari is no 1, no doubt and rightly so, but £99m to £12m (McLaren)? And where did RB have the right to claim more in history payments than McLaren and Williams.

 

Bernie has his priorities, horribly wrong.



#38 turssi

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 18:45

Shocked at the difference between RB and Mercedes/Lotus.....nearly $100m....! No small team is going to move forward with funding gaps like these. It really is the piranha club.

 

The bonus gap (history) between Ferrari/RB and McLaren/Williams is ridiculous. An absolute farce. Ferrari is no 1, no doubt and rightly so, but £99m to £12m (McLaren)? And where did RB have the right to claim more in history payments than McLaren and Williams.

 

Bernie has his priorities, horribly wrong.

 

Yeah, looks like the rest have a case for suing Bernie for unfair treatment. Or get a declaration that F1 is not a sport :-)



#39 Tommay

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 19:08

72 million bonus for Red Bull.

Why?

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#40 Fastcake

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 19:11

Ferrari is part of F1 since its conception.

So Ferrari has a big stake in F1.

Also marketing research says a lot of people follow F1 due to Ferrari.

 

RedBull has 4 cars in the grid or almost 20% of it.

Also they help to promote the show a lot through their channels.

So does Ferrari partners: Shell, Santander, Acer, TNT, etc.

 

Both teams could leave and F1 wouldn't suffer. No team is bigger than the sport.

 

The sole reason they get more money is through back room shenanigans.



#41 sopa

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 19:19

Good lord. Now I understand, how do Red Bull and Ferrari have so much bigger budgets in F1 than anybody else and how Mateschitz can actually afford two teams. And how Mercedes/Ross Brawn keeps saying they are "underfunded" despite factory support! And how Renault/Enstone has always said they are underfunded.

 

The money RBR and Ferrari get from FOM (especially together with WCC payments) is above many teams can get together as an overall budget!

 

Shows you how massively Ferrari is actually underperforming given the financial opportunities, while Red Bull is pretty much delivering on their advantage. And even in RBR's case I think they started getting this "bonus" after they started winning, so kudos for them for getting to the top actually.

 

But yeah, no surprise back-of-the-field teams are struggling so much. A bit can be done there if really wanted. I know Ferrari is regarded as valuable to F1, but I don't think they would pull out and do something else with lesser bonus? I think Ferrari needs F1 as well just like it is considered the other way around at the moment. Some serious thinking for Bernie, FOM there, how to manage this politically.

 

Basically this bonus is to guarantee that Ferrari and Red Bull remain at the front of the F1 grid. Bernie needs them at the front for marketing purposes. This means that even these teams design bad cars, they can outspend others and rise to the front. Ferrari in 2012 is a good example. Ferrari may not be performing better than midfield in car design, but the financial opportunities make a difference and also Ferrari can afford to spend a fortune to hire top drivers. No surprise the driver salaries have been so huge, I think they may spend 50M$ on Alonso+Raikkonen combined for next year.


Edited by sopa, 16 November 2013 - 19:29.


#42 Disgrace

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 19:22

Ferrari are the modern day Japanese manufacturer if they're squandering all that money.



#43 Wingcommander

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 19:25

Dieter Rencken has been writing about this all year. Bernie offered great deals for RB and Ferrari and after that... the rest had no option but to accept whatever was offered to them. Mercedes made some noice about their treatment and got a little bonus aswell. For the rest it was take it or leave it and Marussia got nothing until threatening with some european commission thingy. The big stay big, the small stay small.



#44 sopa

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 19:32

Ferrari are the modern day Japanese manufacturer if they're squandering all that money.

 

Yeah, I don't think BMW Sauber, Honda, Toyota ever got bonuses back in the day. Of course the financial state of F1 was different back in the day and we had like 6-7 teams on 300-400M $ budgets, all factory teams. So the Ferrari's extra 100M didn't make THAT much of a difference, although it is always an important differentiator. But now these days with much reduced budgets and many teams barely scraping above 100M overall with only Ferrari and RBR having an overall budget in excess of 200M $, Ferrari is in position to be hammering the whole midfield with ease. Basically it is the equivalent of mid-2000s factory team with a 300M $ budget struggling to beat a private Sauber back in the day.


Edited by sopa, 16 November 2013 - 19:33.


#45 K-One

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 21:41

While it's disgusting to read how much Ferrari gets, it's same time hilarious to see that they haven't won anything since Kimi left

#46 SpaMaster

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 21:50

Horrible..

 

What a disgrace! Ferrari's bonus money is more than the WCC winning prize itself!? What the heck? That means, Ferrari wins WCC no.1 every year irrespective of what happens on the track. Just look at the progressive order of WCC prize - 90, 80. 72, 65, and, Ferrari's 99 is the same gap ahead of 90! This is crooked.. It looks like F1 is Wild Wild West and there is no sensible law.. Exploitation at its worst. F1 needs some interference of fair-business regulations.. Quite disturbing actually..   Can't see how this is a fairly-competed sport.



#47 Pothead4Philosopher

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 21:56

Horrible..

 

What a disgrace! Ferrari's bonus money is more than the WCC winning prize itself!? What the heck? That means, Ferrari wins WCC no.1 every year irrespective of what happens on the track. Just look at the progressive order of WCC prize - 90, 80. 72, 65, and, Ferrari's 99 is the same gap ahead of 90! This is crooked.. It looks like F1 is Wild Wild West and there is no sensible law.. Exploitation at its worst. F1 needs some interference of fair-business regulations.. Quite disturbing actually..   Can't see how this is a fairly-competed sport.

 

 

Heh -- I was never under any such illusions of fairy-tale concepts of fairness in Bernie's world, but that it is as breath-taking as the numbers indicate is just sad.

 

I must wonder why more than half the grid even bothers. F1 needs to have a revolution -- or just walk away and start from scratch.

 

Sport? -- My buttox!



#48 SpaMaster

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:05

With such crooks running the sport, we are a long way away from cost-cutting and sustainability in F1. How will the cost come down if some of the teams get $135 million and $165 million in prize money just being 4th? This is without including any sponsorship funds. Meanwhile, couple of other contenders would get only $90 million even if they win WCC? How will the cost reduce? It is pretty simple. Cost-reduction is simply inherently designed-against in F1's DNA. All this talk of cost-reduction is just a conspiracy, not even bogus..



#49 pingu666

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:20

they get a nice bunch from phillip morris too

wasn't it some double champison bonus, but from a certain year, so only rbr got it?



#50 K-One

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:23

Lotus and Sauber cannot afford to pay salaries to their drivers, so Ferrari just can pay Hulks salary in order to hinder Lotus get more points