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Maldonado blames on Williams for his quali while Bottas hits Q3


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#251 Mox

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:58

Not pulling Maldonado into the pits after the contact with Sutil even though it was clear that his frontwing was broken was clearly the teams fault.

 

That is pure mathematics, isn't it? 
If your laptimes aren't slower by more than the time it takes to have an extra stop, divided by the number of laps until you reach the pit window, you don't pit the car. 

The marshalls decided it was unsafe. Williams and Pastor apparently never did. So maybe what was "the teams fault", was really the best strategy, that got screwed by the marshalls?



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#252 maximilian

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 13:27

They should put Juncadella in the car for the last race and get this nutcase out the door.



#253 redreni

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 14:06

That is pure mathematics, isn't it? 
If your laptimes aren't slower by more than the time it takes to have an extra stop, divided by the number of laps until you reach the pit window, you don't pit the car. 

The marshalls decided it was unsafe. Williams and Pastor apparently never did. So maybe what was "the teams fault", was really the best strategy, that got screwed by the marshalls?

 

No, that's the mistake Ferrari made earlier on in the season, when Alonso failed to pit and the wing failed.

 

It only makes sense to do the sums to work out if it's better to pit immediately or continue to the first scheduled stop if you are sure you can make it to your first scheduled stop without the wing failing. In this case one of the pillars that attaches the wing to the nose was broken and I, personally, was expecting the team to respond to that by bringing him in on the basis that it's not in their interests for the wing to go under the car and lift the front wheels off the ground.

 

As it is, race control made the decision for them, that's their job. Maybe the wing would have held until his scheduled stop and maybe that would have been the quicker option, but it's not a permitted strategy. You're not allowed to drive around with damage for lap after lap if the damage presents a hazard to other people on the track. As soon as the parts of the wing that hold it onto the car have failed (as distinct from simple damage to the endplates or wing elements or barge boards e.g. like Button) race control should be insisting that the car comes in to have the damage repaired. As far as I can see they did their job.



#254 Jvr

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 14:43

Do i remember correctly that Pastor's front wing was hanging from the left hand side down and yet the contact with Sutil was from the right hand side? Also I remember him saying that his front right hand side wheel made the contact with Sutil's left hand side back wheel. So my point is, did he damage the front wing at the incident with Sutil at all?

#255 bushgold

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 15:17

the williams has obviously improved a lot. as a comparison in abu dhabi maldonado finished a couple of seconds behind perez just out of the points. that group was charging to the end. in texas, bottas was 20 seconds behind perez before the mclaren slowed down. it's disgusting the way the guy has been treated by williams. they practically stole the money he brought into the team.



#256 Baddoer

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 15:24

the williams has obviously improved a lot. as a comparison in abu dhabi maldonado finished a couple of seconds behind perez just out of the points. that group was charging to the end. in texas, bottas was 20 seconds behind perez before the mclaren slowed down. it's disgusting the way the guy has been treated by williams. they practically stole the money he brought into the team.

They invested his money in Bottas. Would have been very embarrassing if he had not delivered.


Edited by Baddoer, 18 November 2013 - 15:28.


#257 Collective

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 15:38

the williams has obviously improved a lot. as a comparison in abu dhabi maldonado finished a couple of seconds behind perez just out of the points. that group was charging to the end. in texas, bottas was 20 seconds behind perez before the mclaren slowed down. it's disgusting the way the guy has been treated by williams. they practically stole the money he brought into the team.

The contract is for displaying logos in the car and seating the driver they wanted in one of the cars. PDVSA received what they paid for, as far as I know.

 

I think the team's explanation makes sense. Tyres are tricky in that surface, last year each qualy run lasted 4-5 laps just to scrub them a bit. It's just different and it looked like Bottas got it and Pastor didn't. Pujolar is very close to Maldonado and his explanation made a lot of sense.


Edited by Collective, 18 November 2013 - 15:41.


#258 William Hunt

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 17:13

I think we should give Pastor at least some credit that he now has apologized for his appaling comments.



#259 Mauseri

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 18:08

the williams has obviously improved a lot. as a comparison in abu dhabi maldonado finished a couple of seconds behind perez just out of the points. that group was charging to the end. in texas, bottas was 20 seconds behind perez before the mclaren slowed down. it's disgusting the way the guy has been treated by williams. they practically stole the money he brought into the team.

Lol.. funny cries that pay drivers should get preferential treatment because they the bring money. They bring precisely as big sponsors as they need to make up for their lack of talent and skill to get in the car. And the sponsor gets some surface of the car for their logos in return. Whether it's good investment or not is the sponsors error if they pay themselves sick and get nothing in return. Maybe this Venezuela investor isn't very carefully counting their coins in the process of supporting Maldonado's career :rotfl:


Edited by Mauseri, 18 November 2013 - 18:09.


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#260 Hans V

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 18:30

I think we should give Pastor at least some credit that he now has apologized for his appaling comments.


Do we believe that comes from his heart or his manager? ;)

#261 joora

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 18:34

Lol.. funny cries that pay drivers should get preferential treatment because they the bring money. They bring precisely as big sponsors as they need to make up for their lack of talent and skill to get in the car. And the sponsor gets some surface of the car for their logos in return. Whether it's good investment or not is the sponsors error if they pay themselves sick and get nothing in return. Maybe this Venezuela investor isn't very carefully counting their coins in the process of supporting Maldonado's career :rotfl:

 

In this case - winning a race in dry weather driving a midfield car, I wouldn't call that lack of talent. Pastor is maybe lacking brains, but he is one of the quickest drivers on the grid.



#262 Mauseri

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 18:46

In this case - winning a race in dry weather driving a midfield car, I wouldn't call that lack of talent. Pastor is maybe lacking brains, but he is one of the quickest drivers on the grid.

On his day maybe, which are rare. The great ones are fast about 80% of the time and able to hold it on the track without contacts.



#263 totgate

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 19:57

I have followed F1 closely since the mid seventies and Maldonado is one of the biggest idiots in the sport ever!!!! :down:



#264 Gorma

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 20:04

In this case - winning a race in dry weather driving a midfield car, I wouldn't call that lack of talent. Pastor is maybe lacking brains, but he is one of the quickest drivers on the grid.

Williams was one of the quickest cars early in the season as evident by Maldonado's quali results. The reason he did not get more podiums or points was because he was so poor in the races.

#265 Tsarwash

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 20:59

Williams didn't qualify anywhere near the top ten in the first six races.

#266 Murl

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:12

You see, I think it is better to consider this from the standpoint of the highly-competitive F1 context, rather than "rich background" context.

 

Rene Arnoux, for example, was staunchly working class in origin (IIRC) and he ended up being a complete pain in the backside. But Elio De Angelis, born into fabulous wealth, was kindly to everyone.

 

Senna was from a wealthy background, was a pain on the track at times yet incredibly altruistic in his personal life outside of F1.

 

It's a lot, lot more complex than assuming a correlation between wealthy background/sponsorship and unethical behaviour. More likely Maldonado knee-jerked to being comprehesively outpaced by Bottas (and he would hardly be the first driver to spark up about cars not being quite equal, *cough* *cough* Nigel Mansell). His pre-race interviews indicated that they'd all talked about it and it wasn't really an issue any more (though that's him saying it, not anyone from within Williams of course). More likely the genesis of such behaviour can be found in the immeidiate context, rather than being directly explained by his sponsorship finance (finance that has kept Williams afloat).

 

 

Yeah, ok. You are probably right. He's blowing off steam because his fragile ego got a hole in it. That has got to hurt.

 

The stuff indicating he is a spoiled brat is contextual, in that he has to say something stupid, so the "I've got a big bag of money" drivel is what comes out. He's not driven to be an asshole because of his money, he is simply just an asshole talking himself up. I can accept that :up:


Edited by Murl, 18 November 2013 - 21:15.


#267 joora

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:56

Williams was one of the quickest cars early in the season as evident by Maldonado's quali results. The reason he did not get more podiums or points was because he was so poor in the races.

 

If Williams was one of the quickest cars, what was Pastor's teammate doing? Almost every driver on the grid can put the best cars in the top 10. So why wasn't Senna (who wasn't a rookie) been able to do it?

 

Maldonado is fast in a car which can be driven on the edge, but he has a bad personality, ergo isn't very likeable.


Edited by joora, 18 November 2013 - 22:57.


#268 LoudHoward

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:10

I found it hilarious in his statements that he said "It is not that I am crazy"  :stoned: 

 

When you have to start saying stuff like that...



#269 pingu666

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:32

I've heard worse tbh, and he can be damn quick



#270 bushgold

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:31

Lol.. funny cries that pay drivers should get preferential treatment because they the bring money. They bring precisely as big sponsors as they need to make up for their lack of talent and skill to get in the car.

 

your so-called "professionals" like kovalainen, di resta, sutil, massa and button get minimal criticism on these boards eventhough they can't deliver. you'd think they'd be under more scrutiny than maldonado who won a race. in a williams.

 

it was petrov's "lack of talent" that delivered for caterham  when the team needed someone to deliver. in fact he looked more like the team leader in the second half of the 2012 season. he made millions for the team through sponsors and performance and yet they refused to pay him a salary. kovalainen gets zero criticism. he actually gets rewarded for being crap.



#271 wj_gibson

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:51

I find it quite depressing how quickly the online mob "pounced" on him, to be honest. As though they were just lying in wait for the opportunity...

 

He's a professional racing driver, he can be blamed legitmately for precisely one accident all year (and that in the context of someone else's), and has generally got on quietly with driving what is clearly a very difficult car against a team-mate that Frank Williams has described along the lines of the best talent he's hired since Senna, and acquitted himself fairly well tbh. We all make mistakes from time to time. Maldonado made one, has apologised for it and everyone is moving on.

 

Apart from the mob, of course.



#272 keeppari

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:11

kovalainen gets zero criticism. he actually gets rewarded for being crap.

 

He gets a lot of criticism in Finnish discussion boards. Not much love for "the Bream of Suomussalmi" these days (yeah, that nickname makes no sense in English :lol:). Many people would've actually wanted to see someone else driving the second Lotus.

 

Kova is the kind of guy who tries. Unfortunately for him F1 is the kind of business Yoda described quite well. "Do or do not. There is no try."



#273 Molo19

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:08

your so-called "professionals" like kovalainen, di resta, sutil, massa and button get minimal criticism on these boards eventhough they can't deliver. you'd think they'd be under more scrutiny than maldonado who won a race. in a williams.

 

it was petrov's "lack of talent" that delivered for caterham  when the team needed someone to deliver. in fact he looked more like the team leader in the second half of the 2012 season. he made millions for the team through sponsors and performance and yet they refused to pay him a salary. kovalainen gets zero criticism. he actually gets rewarded for being crap.

If you only saw the comments section in any MTV3.fi news report on Heikki... The hatefullness borders on prosecutable defamation.


Edited by Molo19, 19 November 2013 - 12:09.


#274 ExFlagMan

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:41

I find it quite depressing how quickly the online mob "pounced" on him, to be honest. As though they were just lying in wait for the opportunity...
 
He's a professional racing driver, he can be blamed legitmately for precisely one accident all year (and that in the context of someone else's), and has generally got on quietly with driving what is clearly a very difficult car against a team-mate that Frank Williams has described along the lines of the best talent he's hired since Senna, and acquitted himself fairly well tbh. We all make mistakes from time to time. Maldonado made one, has apologised for it and everyone is moving on.
 
Apart from the mob, of course.

If he is a good as you claim and has bags full of sponsorship money then can you explain why Williams are letting him go?
He has had 3 seasons with the team so I assume the team has had time to evaluate his talent. I can only assume that they have decided that the money is not worth the hassle of running him - or maybe they know/believe that the sponsorship money supply is liable to evaporate in the near future.

#275 wj_gibson

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 13:49

If he is a good as you claim and has bags full of sponsorship money then can you explain why Williams are letting him go?
He has had 3 seasons with the team so I assume the team has had time to evaluate his talent. I can only assume that they have decided that the money is not worth the hassle of running him - or maybe they know/believe that the sponsorship money supply is liable to evaporate in the near future.

 

No, I can't explain why Williams are letting him go (though everything I read indicated Maldonado initiated the split), nor can you, and that wasn't even the point of my post. 



#276 EthanM

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 13:58

If he is a good as you claim and has bags full of sponsorship money then can you explain why Williams are letting him go?
He has had 3 seasons with the team so I assume the team has had time to evaluate his talent. I can only assume that they have decided that the money is not worth the hassle of running him - or maybe they know/believe that the sponsorship money supply is liable to evaporate in the near future.

 

well they are not if you believe the press. Maldonado wanted to go, PDVSA was happy to pay Williams its severance fee and the rest is history. It's not like Williams could chain him to the car, is it



#277 ExFlagMan

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 15:52

Regarding the last two posts - the few interviews I saw with Maldonado gave me the impression he was hacked off because he was being replaced, not that he had initiated the split.
Possibly he was more hacked by the fact that Williams had immediately signed and announced a replacement, so he has no fall-back if other potential seats do not materialise.
It seems strange to me that a driver would 'burn his boats' with any team by slagging them off - it does not go down that well with other teams and who knows when/where he might want a drive in the future.
F1 team personnel move around quite a lot and it does not make sense to me to make enemies of someone who might just have a part in driver decisions in the future.

#278 SophieB

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:36

Posts removed after complaints about the thread going off-topic. And how!

#279 ExFlagMan

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 22:11

well they are not if you believe the press. Maldonado wanted to go, PDVSA was happy to pay Williams its severance fee and the rest is history. It's not like Williams could chain him to the car, is it

If the rumours being described in another thread are true then maybe the reason PDVSA were happy to pay Williams a severance fee was because they wanted an exit from F1, rather than a desire to get Maldonado out from the team.

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#280 ATM

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 10:13

Then that looks bleak for Maldonado...if he loses PDVSA backing (or gets reduced funding)...

 

I suppose we should just give a little more slack to Maldo. I don't like him either, but I cannot feel that somewhat he's hampered by his own looks (far from agreeable, but then again that's not fair to be taken into consideration) and by his ill mouth (which he should learn to control more). Anyway, he's shown signs that he learned to control his temper on-track this year...eeeh, then again good looks+good manners = good PR/good image selling for the crowds. So, even though maybe he's not deserving all the bashing he gets, that's the way it is in the sport. Namely, unfair.