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New GP, so the mandatory new supposedly illegal Red Bull part


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#1 F.M.

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 21:57

BZNnE8OCUAAfo4r.jpg

 

Enjoy! :)


Edited by F.M., 16 November 2013 - 21:57.


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#2 nosecone

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:01

guess you're trying to hint at the hot rim. Yes the rim gets hot because the hot air from the brakes flows through the rim.

 

 We don't know for how long the cars have been running when the photo was taken. Of course it takes some time until the heat spreads to the rim.

 

RB has done some special things on the inside of the rim. But Mercedes has this too


Edited by nosecone, 16 November 2013 - 22:07.


#3 Module

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:19

So there you have it, the reason RBR is a rocketship and SV below average driver!

 

You can clearly see that the wheelrim is unusually hot, breaking probably a lot of rules. This is achieved by illegal use of KERS-braking as proven by KERS failures. This just hasn't been noticed before because the wheels cool down before park ferme.

 

The advantage is that as the rubber melts it gives tolerance in braking as the melted wheel slides around the rim, functioning as antilockbrakes. The advantage can be seen in every race when SV doesn't lock his frontwheels as Hamilton does.

 

FI has to inform FIA ASAP! The test should be carried out by applying a blowtorch against the rim and the wheel and if the rubber melts the breach in regulations is proven and RBR should be stripped of their points and SV relegated to carting.



#4 Scotracer

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:36

Good on Red Bull if they've managed to scavenge brake heat to control tyre temps.



#5 Module

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:57

That's actualy interesting...

 

Scarbs has an article on Mercedes crosscut wheelrims http://scarbsf1.com/...cut-wheel-rims/

 

Later I remember seeing on Sky that RBR also applyed this, I think it was in the Notebook. In that one they also talked about how expensive of a change it is. Many teams strugle with getting heat in their front tyres, even Kovalainen said today he had same issues with it as Kimi has had, Maybe this is one of the reasons for RBR and Merc dominance in Quali and kind of something showing that money realy is a key to success.



#6 repete

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 23:01

So Alonso exiting a turn not using brakes has cooler rims than Hamilton, whose are slightly warm while approaching corner, and vettels whose are even warmer because he is on the brakes harder for longer because he is closer to the corner.

#7 Module

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 23:09

So Alonso exiting a turn not using brakes has cooler rims than Hamilton, whose are slightly warm while approaching corner, and vettels whose are even warmer because he is on the brakes harder for longer because he is closer to the corner.

That about sums it up...



#8 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 23:41

Does it glow green?



#9 Module

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 23:44

Does it glow green?

No, that's one of Saubers cars..



#10 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:33

Just watching an on board of webber and the inner rim was looking as hot as the tyre through out the lap!

#11 dau

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:42

Does it glow green?

Only on Schumacher's car.



#12 DS27

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:46

Being able to see screen shots from the same point of a lap would be more telling.

#13 HP

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:01

Does it glow green?

Only when Frans photoshoppes it



#14 prty

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 12:06

So Alonso exiting a turn not using brakes has cooler rims than Hamilton, whose are slightly warm while approaching corner, and vettels whose are even warmer because he is on the brakes harder for longer because he is closer to the corner.

 

 

Just watching an on board of webber and the inner rim was looking as hot as the tyre through out the lap!

 

Oops :)

 

Might explain the alternator failures if the heat is regulated electrically.

 


 



#15 fabr68

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 14:17

No wonder Red Bull bitched and moaned until Pirelli replaced the steel belts for kevlar

#16 Kimble

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 15:08

I noticed this on the live feed during qualifying.  The rims on the Red Bull were permanently like that and entirely different from the other cars. 



#17 EthanM

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 15:28

definite proof that rb have installed a magnetic propulsion system on the front wheels. that's why they are so fast, they have 4WD. Ban them


Edited by EthanM, 17 November 2013 - 15:30.


#18 engineblock1

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 16:27

When you get to drive the fast car very fast, you have to brake as much as hard. RBR is a fast car, gains more speed due to lesser drag. Hence the hotter temperatures  :clap:



#19 DKMoto

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 16:43

Everyone knows that the secret to great RB breaks is to marinade them for 24hours in 12 cans of redbull over night so they're ready for next day's racing, its the electrolytes, rejecting the negative protons from all the friction that convert all that energy into seconds!



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#20 TheManAlive

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 17:59

Seems Sky also think this is helping RB.



#21 e34

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:16

Is it illegal to heat the wheel rim? If it is, pursue the thing with the FIA. If it isn't, good for RB. In either case, I do not see the need for sarcasm. 


Edited by e34, 17 November 2013 - 18:17.


#22 TheManAlive

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:22

? ???

 

I wasnt being sarcastic. Just commenting that Sky noted it too. 



#23 DS27

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:23

OK - so it's hot for the whole lap....

 

Heating electrically is a non-starter for me for a number or reasons, so are they just using brake temperature  somehow..



#24 Shiroo

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:28

and how it is illegal? I bet their car is checked every race, yet they are always fine with everything. Reason? Because they are finding solution on the edge or loopholes, but that doesn't mean that it is illegal.

So they are simply clever than the rest of the grid. 
And that's the reason of 4x WCC and WDC in a row. And probably few more in a row from next year onwards.



#25 e34

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:30

? ???

 

I wasnt being sarcastic. Just commenting that Sky noted it too. 

 

 

I didn't mean you, of course, but the usual brigade of "marinaded with RB", magnetic propulsion system and so on. We are in a F1 forum, and we are supposed to comment F1 matters, not just to fall on our knees in awe for the design god of the era. 



#26 Tsarwash

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:35

You want to eliminate sarcasm from the internet ? That'll work well.  :stoned:



#27 Nonesuch

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:43

I bet their car is checked every race, yet they are always fine with everything. Reason? Because they are finding solution on the edge or loopholes, but that doesn't mean that it is illegal.

 

It's not as simple as that. See this discussion about the blown diffusers in 2011 for a detailed look at the back and forth that takes place between the FIA and the teams.

 

Even if a car is outside the rules, the FIA doesn't always pick up on this. When they finally do, they have, in recent years, often preferred to demand changes rather than hand out punishments. This mode of doing business is helped by team bosses who no longer seem keen to protest each other's cars. A shame for Ferrari and Alonso, because Red Bull's highly dubious floor won them two races last year.

 

In this case though, it's probably nothing.


Edited by Nonesuch, 17 November 2013 - 18:44.


#28 bub

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:46

and how it is illegal? I bet their car is checked every race, yet they are always fine with everything. Reason? Because they are finding solution on the edge or loopholes, but that doesn't mean that it is illegal.

So they are simply clever than the rest of the grid. 
And that's the reason of 4x WCC and WDC in a row. And probably few more in a row from next year onwards.

 

Who said it was illegal apart from those obviously having a laugh?



#29 DS27

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:57

and how it is illegal? I bet their car is checked every race, yet they are always fine with everything. Reason? Because they are finding solution on the edge or loopholes, but that doesn't mean that it is illegal.

So they are simply clever than the rest of the grid. 
And that's the reason of 4x WCC and WDC in a row. And probably few more in a row from next year onwards.

 

Who said it was illegal - please tell?



#30 abrar2

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 19:49

There is no doubt that the new tyres helped red bull. And what we see right now isnt illegal , its just clever. But i thought thats forbidden

#31 Jimster

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:51

Those strange temperatures might be related to something else than special rims 

 

http://thejudge13.co...y-mass-damping/

 

nice article with extra pics to explain the possible use of the thermal camera by the fia.
It might not only be to show the spectator extra info, but als to investigate some things on the RB



#32 Garagiste

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 18:46

Does it glow green?

 
First thought that came into my head, glad I'm not the only one that got it! :)



#33 Buttoneer

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 19:05

:D  Second thought was whether it might be transparent.