Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 2 votes

Austin 2013, US Grand Prix Race day topic


  • Please log in to reply
646 replies to this topic

#601 Xeriks

Xeriks
  • Member

  • 857 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:21

What a boring race, and I found the commentary for today's race kinda annoying, it seemed pretty obvious that Hamilton was driving to a delta and was able to up the pace when necessary yet they couldn't work that out for themselves.

 

Oh and Crofty's random shouting needs to stop already.

 

Congrats to Vettel's 8 wins in a row, but bring on 2014 already, this season has been difficult to watch at times.



Advertisement

#602 Alfisti

Alfisti
  • Member

  • 26,431 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 18 November 2013 - 03:40

Care to explain.

 

Would you honestly think that football would be popular if Chelsea or Barcelona beat every single team 25-0 week in week out week in week out.

 

It is patently wrong that WORLD F***ING CLASS drivers like Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonnen are being made to look like fools due to the RIDICULOUS advantage THE CAR is giving (and admittedly amazing) driver right now.

 

Add in the pathetic tyres (we don't want one stop Bridgestone tyres nor do we want exploding cheese tyres - surely there can be a happy medium?) and the soul destroying DRS, F1 is in so much trouble right now - pinnacle of engineering?  YES.  pinnacle of motor sport entertainment?  NOT EVEN CLOSE.

 


Worst post ever.

#603 Raelene

Raelene
  • Member

  • 5,332 posts
  • Joined: April 99

Posted 18 November 2013 - 04:07

God - I got up at 3am on a Monday morning to watch that snooze fest  (well actually I couldn't sleep so I stayed awake to 3am).  I did manage some sleep during the middle of the race... ;)



#604 X61

X61
  • Member

  • 520 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 18 November 2013 - 17:50

Don't understand why everyone is upset about the results.  Don't get angry with RBR, get angry with your chosen team for being unable to get the job done.



#605 SpaMaster

SpaMaster
  • Member

  • 5,856 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 18 November 2013 - 19:16

I'm not defending the booers or advocating booing in any form, but it's impossible not to notice that he gets booed in countries with a Formula One culture. People who love F1 obviously get more upset about what's happening and well, there's always going to be a fraction of them that are stupid and can't restrain themselves. In countries where people just show up to see what this Formula One thing is, most not even knowing who's who, of course they aren't going to boo.

Japan?

 

So wtf are you trying to imply bringing Alonso into the boos then ? Typical trow the rock and hide the hand comment

Easy there.. He was not trying to imply anything. He said something very clear. You are the one crowing needlessly..


Edited by SpaMaster, 18 November 2013 - 19:20.


#606 Peter Perfect

Peter Perfect
  • Member

  • 4,850 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 18 November 2013 - 19:51

It was interesting that the tyres lasted so well in the race and yet (contrary to posters on this forum who would love a return to rock hard bridgestone tyres to let the real racers race) it was pretty much a snoozefest from start to finish.



#607 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,892 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 18 November 2013 - 19:53

They lasted because everybody was driving like and old fart.



#608 djparky

djparky
  • Member

  • 165 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 18 November 2013 - 19:57

It was interesting that the tyres lasted so well in the race and yet (contrary to posters on this forum who would love a return to rock hard bridgestone tyres to let the real racers race) it was pretty much a snoozefest from start to finish.

 point well made- I've said the same thing before for those moaning about PIrelli- this is what you get with that approach



#609 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,225 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 20:00

It was interesting that the tyres lasted so well in the race and yet (contrary to posters on this forum who would love a return to rock hard bridgestone tyres to let the real racers race) it was pretty much a snoozefest from start to finish.

 

They still do not allow for close wheel to wheel racing.  Just look at Webber having to constantly back off a couple of seconds from behind Grosjean before attacking again.  The entire concept of the Pirelli's is wrong.  More pitstsops does not  mean more excitement either.   Passing due to tyres that last five or 6 laps is as artificial as DRS.  Everybody always runs to the same strategy anyway.  The only way you will get different strategies, and some excitement from inadequate 'show' tyres, is to give the teams free choice of what compounds they use in the race.  Show tyres are just another one of F1's blind alley gimmicks that must end (along with DRS)- a misguided way of compensating for the fact that over-reliance on aero is the real problem.


Edited by P123, 18 November 2013 - 20:01.


#610 McLarenNo1

McLarenNo1
  • Member

  • 145 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 18 November 2013 - 20:21

It was interesting that the tyres lasted so well in the race and yet (contrary to posters on this forum who would love a return to rock hard bridgestone tyres to let the real racers race) it was pretty much a snoozefest from start to finish.

 

 point well made- I've said the same thing before for those moaning about PIrelli- this is what you get with that approach

It is very different from the Bridgestones. If it weren't for DRS and KERS, I don't think drivers would bother really to attempt to overtake cars if they are on similar life. They are driving over 2 seconds per lap of the pace to manage them, drivers let each other through if it will compromise them even a small bit as stress is too much on tyres. Drivers trying to overtake have a very small window of opportunity and also racing line is compromised by the marbles.

 

Hearing comments by drivers, you can see how affected they are in trying to overtake with these tyres as they get damaged quite easily. DRS and KERS was bought in to make it possible to get close to other cars to overtake, now we have anti-overtaking tyres which limit competitive overtaking but promote overtaking when it is a bit meaningless. Satisfaction level is very low for drivers overtaking people. It was more, he let me through or had no choice but to than I outdid him on limit of adhesion. Vettel does a lap near end of GPs for satisfaction at a safe limit to try and get fastest lap most of the time just to get an idea how far off he is driving with tyres in that condition. I remember Monaco they were driving ridiculously slow that a backmarker was lapping over 1 second a lap for numerous laps at start of GP. The front runners would have been lapping about 4 seconds a lap quicker just through using 2010 tyres. It is all well and good doing 1 stop but driving so slow to make it happen and so scared of racing others or defending against others is what Pirelli are doing producing these kind of tyres. F-duct and Bridgestone tyres was very effective for McLaren at start of 2010 season for overtaking. Powerful devices such as DRS and KERS would likely have had a huge effect. Pirelli tyres makes it very difficult to do what Bridgestones allowed lap after lap and that is driving on the limit close to another car.


Edited by McLarenNo1, 18 November 2013 - 20:27.


#611 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,892 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 18 November 2013 - 20:54

They still do not allow for close wheel to wheel racing.  Just look at Webber having to constantly back off a couple of seconds from behind Grosjean before attacking again.  The entire concept of the Pirelli's is wrong.  More pitstsops does not  mean more excitement either.   Passing due to tyres that last five or 6 laps is as artificial as DRS.  Everybody always runs to the same strategy anyway.  The only way you will get different strategies, and some excitement from inadequate 'show' tyres, is to give the teams free choice of what compounds they use in the race.  Show tyres are just another one of F1's blind alley gimmicks that must end (along with DRS)- a misguided way of compensating for the fact that over-reliance on aero is the real problem.

Fundamentally, I may add.



#612 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:15

They still do not allow for close wheel to wheel racing.  Just look at Webber having to constantly back off a couple of seconds from behind Grosjean before attacking again.  The entire concept of the Pirelli's is wrong.  More pitstsops does not  mean more excitement either.   Passing due to tyres that last five or 6 laps is as artificial as DRS.  Everybody always runs to the same strategy anyway.  The only way you will get different strategies, and some excitement from inadequate 'show' tyres, is to give the teams free choice of what compounds they use in the race.  Show tyres are just another one of F1's blind alley gimmicks that must end (along with DRS)- a misguided way of compensating for the fact that over-reliance on aero is the real problem.

 

ok now you got that off your chest go read the forum archives about how boring and processional races were pre 2009 and how it's inconceivable you need a car 2 seconds a lap faster to overtake cause of the wake and how f1 is all about overtakes in the pits.

 

There is NO pleasing a portion of the fanbase. You have exciting races, they are fake cause the tyres are not "racers" tyres. You have more durable tyres, it's all fake cause they are nursing the tyres in a less exciting way than they were nursing them 8 months ago. And DRS is fake cause real racers stomp on the brakes to overtake, that's what's racing is all about, braking, I just decided. Lets ban air and run races in a vacuum.

 

Bottom line ...there is no going back to the 80s and the 90s and the whatevers. F1 has progressed, technology has progressed. 20 years ago cars would brake cause the technology to manufacture to tolerances as fine as the ones they manufacture to today didn't exist. Now it exists. You can't un-invent it. And races in the past included frequently a gap of over 1 second between P1 and P2 in quali, their saving grace: unrealiability. Reread the preceding sentence, you can't turn back the clock. Racing in F1 was dead for a whole freaking decade if not more. Nobody raced wheel to wheel, hence the Trulli train. But people with rose tinted glasses think if only DRS was gone we'll go back to the awesome wheel to wheel stuff we haven't had since the 80s. Sure. My opinion? Bunch of people just can't wrap their heads around the fact a fizzy drinks company builds better race cars than teams with half a century of history of building racing cars, and a random kid came out of left field to take over the "Hamilton-Alonso" era and become one of the greatest drivers of all time. Yeah. Cause no matter how much people cry we are witnessing something awesome. One of the greatest designers to ever put pen to paper and come up with a racing car and one of the greatest drivers in the history of the sport are co-existing in the same team and delivering excellence race in race out.


Edited by EthanM, 18 November 2013 - 21:17.


#613 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,431 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:26

Fundamentally, I may add.

 

Exactly, the operating window of the Pirelli's is far too small.



#614 peroa

peroa
  • Member

  • 8,892 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:28

Exactly, the operating window of the Pirelli's is far too small.

Meh, it's the fundamental design that is wrong.

Everything about this tyre is shite.



#615 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,431 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:33

Meh, it's the fundamental design that is wrong.

Everything about this tyre is shite.

 

I agree, the cars shouldn't be racing some 6+ seconds a lap slower than they do in qualifying trying to preserve the tyre and keep it in the optimum temperature range.

Bolt some boots on and go hell for leather I say.



#616 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:35

I agree, the cars shouldn't be racing some 6+ seconds a lap slower than they do in qualifying trying to preserve the tyre and keep it in the optimum temperature range.

Bolt some boots on and go hell for leather I say.

 

cars also carry 150 kilos of fuel

10 kgs = 3 tenths around the average lap

150 kgs = 4.5 seconds

and that's just the from the weight difference, before you even get to tyre wear



#617 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,431 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:38

cars also carry 150 kilos of fuel

10 kgs = 3 tenths around the average lap

150 kgs = 4.5 seconds

and that's just the from the weight difference, before you even get to tyre wear

 

At the start of the race they are close to 10 seconds off the pace, tip toeing around with REs screaming in their ears to manage the tyres.



#618 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,225 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:46

ok now you got that off your chest go read the forum archives about how boring and processional races were pre 2009 and how it's inconceivable you need a car 2 seconds a lap faster to overtake cause of the wake and how f1 is all about overtakes in the pits.

 

There is NO pleasing a portion of the fanbase. You have exciting races, they are fake cause the tyres are not "racers" tyres. You have more durable tyres, it's all fake cause they are nursing the tyres in a less exciting way than they were nursing them 8 months ago. And DRS is fake cause real racers stomp on the brakes to overtake, that's what's racing is all about, braking, I just decided. Lets ban air and run races in a vacuum.

 

Bottom line ...there is no going back to the 80s and the 90s and the whatevers. F1 has progressed, technology has progressed. 20 years ago cars would brake cause the technology to manufacture to tolerances as fine as the ones they manufacture to today didn't exist. Now it exists. You can't un-invent it. And races in the past included frequently a gap of over 1 second between P1 and P2 in quali, their saving grace: unrealiability. Reread the preceding sentence, you can't turn back the clock. Racing in F1 was dead for a whole freaking decade if not more. Nobody raced wheel to wheel, hence the Trulli train. But people with rose tinted glasses think if only DRS was gone we'll go back to the awesome wheel to wheel stuff we haven't had since the 80s. Sure. My opinion? Bunch of people just can't wrap their heads around the fact a fizzy drinks company builds better race cars than teams with half a century of history of building racing cars, and a random kid came out of left field to take over the "Hamilton-Alonso" era and become one of the greatest drivers of all time. Yeah. Cause no matter how much people cry we are witnessing something awesome. One of the greatest designers to ever put pen to paper and come up with a racing car and one of the greatest drivers in the history of the sport are co-existing in the same team and delivering excellence race in race out.

 

I don't think drive-by DRS passes or inadequate tyres have any link to Red Bull.  It is the same for all, and Red Bull too have had their complaints and issues with tyres (and also DRS..).  As you say, we are seeing a great driver (who didn't come out of left field- silly claim that) in a great car designed by a great engineer and a great team.  Not the first time we have seen that in the history of F1.  But however giddy you are over that it does not mean the current sticking plaster solutions to past problems are acceptable or concerns and dislike of them can be waved away by your daft reasoning, which actually says more about how much Vettel's success means to you than anything else.

 

You can applaud the progress of F1, sure.  But I'm sure you must also see the irony that despite all that progress the tyre supplier is not being asked to provide 'best of' technology; in fact they are being asked for the opposite.  And the solution to no passing being a moveable plain on the rear wing is hardly cutting edge either.  Rather than producing exciting racing it generally kills any tension in battles.  I'm sure most remember Schumacher v Alonso at Imola '05 and '06.  You don't need motorway passing to bring excitement.  It's flawed.



#619 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 21:56

At the start of the race they are close to 10 seconds off the pace, tip toeing around with REs screaming in their ears to manage the tyres.

 

so? 

 

random 2010 (Bridgestone) race run on full tanks

 

2010 Japanese Grand Prix (cause Japan is closest to the US GP profile)

Vettel: Quali time 1’30.785 Average Race Lap: 1’42.402

Webber: Quali time 1’30.853 Average Race Lap: 1’42.419

Alonso : Quali time 1’31.819  Average Race Lap: 1’42.454

Hamilton: Quali time 1’31.169 Average Race Lap: 1’43.149

 

rosesunglasses.jpg



Advertisement

#620 sv401

sv401
  • Member

  • 740 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:05

random 2010 (Bridgestone) race run on full tanks

 

2010 Japanese Grand Prix (cause Japan is closest to the US GP profile)

Vettel: Quali time 1’30.785 Average Race Lap: 1’42.402

 

That race had a safety car at the beginning for 5-6 laps.



#621 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:09

I don't think drive-by DRS passes or inadequate tyres have any link to Red Bull.  It is the same for all, and Red Bull too have had their complaints and issues with tyres (and also DRS..).  As you say, we are seeing a great driver (who didn't come out of left field- silly claim that) in a great car designed by a great engineer and a great team.  Not the first time we have seen that in the history of F1.  But however giddy you are over that it does not mean the current sticking plaster solutions to past problems are acceptable or concerns and dislike of them can be waved away by your daft reasoning, which actually says more about how much Vettel's success means to you than anything else.

 

You can applaud the progress of F1, sure.  But I'm sure you must also see the irony that despite all that progress the tyre supplier is not being asked to provide 'best of' technology; in fact they are being asked for the opposite.  And the solution to no passing being a moveable plain on the rear wing is hardly cutting edge either.  Rather than producing exciting racing it generally kills any tension in battles.  I'm sure most remember Schumacher v Alonso at Imola '05 and '06.  You don't need motorway passing to bring excitement.  It's flawed.

 

define best? 2010 everybody was bored in the races. Then we had Canada and everybody went OMG more of that please. They are trying to give people what they asked for. As to exciting ... you can't always have a the leading driver qualify 15th or whatever position Schumi qualified in Imola 2005 to give you "exciting" races.

 

Daft reasoning? Constantly arguing that there is this magic pill that will "fix" F1 and that magic pill is to ban aero is way more daft. 30 years ago they didn't understand downforce, heck even in the magic days of active suspensions the aero on the cars was pretty rudimentary, now they understand it so well a little kink the front wing generates a vortex that winds its way around the car and helps seal the diffuser at the back. You can stomp your feet all day while holding your breath, you can't make them unlearn that.



#622 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,225 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:10

That race had a safety car at the beginning for 5-6 laps.

 

Green flag running the average is closer to 1m36.  The comparison is further clouded by the fact that teams were running qualifying specific engine maps, which were outlawed in 2011.



#623 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,431 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:13

so? 

 

random 2010 (Bridgestone) race run on full tanks

 

2010 Japanese Grand Prix (cause Japan is closest to the US GP profile)

Vettel: Quali time 1’30.785 Average Race Lap: 1’42.402

Webber: Quali time 1’30.853 Average Race Lap: 1’42.419

Alonso : Quali time 1’31.819  Average Race Lap: 1’42.454

Hamilton: Quali time 1’31.169 Average Race Lap: 1’43.149

 

rosesunglasses.jpg

 

Safety car?



#624 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,431 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:13

Green flag running the average is closer to 1m36.  The comparison is further clouded by the fact that teams were running qualifying specific engine maps, which were outlawed in 2011.

 

Thank you. 



#625 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:14

That race had a safety car at the beginning for 5-6 laps.

 

as did austin two days ago. Know how it compares?



#626 senna da silva

senna da silva
  • Member

  • 4,431 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:47

2009 Japanese GP. Bridgestone tyres.

 

Vettel Q2 1:30.341

Vettel Q3 1:32.220 full tanks

Webber FL 1:32.569



#627 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 22:48

2009 Japanese GP. Bridgestone tyres.

 

Vettel Q2 1:30.341

Vettel Q3 1:32.220 full tanks

Webber FL 1:32.569

 

2009 had refueling



#628 sv401

sv401
  • Member

  • 740 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 23:03

as did austin two days ago. Know how it compares?

 

You can check it yourself and draw conclusions:

 

Suzuka 2010 (qualifying)

Suzuka 2013

Austin 2013



#629 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 23:21

You can check it yourself and draw conclusions:

 

Suzuka 2010 (qualifying)

Suzuka 2013

Austin 2013

 

awesome

 

so in suzuka 2010

 

Vettel qualified with a 1'30.785

After the SC came in was lapping in the 1'37.5s (6.8 seconds slower on a 90 second lap is about 7.6% slower than his quali lap)

 

in Austin 2013 Vettel qualified with a 1'36.338

After the SC came in was lapping in the 1'44.1s (7.8 seconds slower on a 96 second lap ... OH MY GOD 8.1% slower than his quali lap)

 

Then in Suzuka 2010 Vettel settled on a 1'37.0 average around lap 15(6.3 seconds slower on a 90 second lap ... about 7% slower than his quali lap)

 

Whereas in Austin 2013 Vettel settled on a 1'43.5 average around lap 15 ( 7.2 seconds slower on a 96 second lap ... about 7.5% slower than his quali lap)

 

 

Oh my god this is amazing the amount of 0.5% of ultimatebrdgestonelaptimecrusising going on here. Shocking how much more they were pushing those bridgestones.NOT. Even disregarding the fact suzuka 2010 was a race with Webber snapping on Vettel's gearbox whereas austin 2013 Vettel was taking it easy with a nice buffer to Grosjean. Those differences are massive. Man.

 

(grosjean messes up suzuka 2013)



#630 LoudHoward

LoudHoward
  • Member

  • 1,313 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 18 November 2013 - 23:50

I don't like Pirelli's, does that mean I want things to be like they were in 2008? No, that's a false dichotomy. The lack of discussion from leading figures in F1 regarding the ability for the cars to follow closely is just, disappointing. The root problem for me in F1 is the difficulty in two cars with similar pace being able to run close to each other. 
 
Currently this is "fixed" with DRS which is just a boring arbitrary speed boost that doesn't sit well, and Pirelli's, which actually accentuate the problem because no one wants to drive within 1.5 secs of another car for more than 2-3 laps. We argue about DRS and Pirelli, and the default rebuttle to criticism of them is "so you want to go back to the old boring days?", it's not where the discussion should be starting from. We should be looking at the "old boring days", seeing the problems, and come up with real long term solutions to those issues.
 
The sport got massively sidetracked because of Canada 2010, and everyone's moaning about overtaking. They couldn't overtake because they couldn't get near each other, fix that, DRS was only ever meant to be a stop-gap, not a permanent solution, the aero regs allowing close running should be the primary focus year on year with the technical regs.


#631 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 18 November 2013 - 23:55

 

I don't like Pirelli's, does that mean I want things to be like they were in 2008? No, that's a false dichotomy. The lack of discussion from leading figures in F1 regarding the ability for the cars to follow closely is just, disappointing. The root problem for me in F1 is the difficulty in two cars with similar pace being able to run close to each other. 
 
Currently this is "fixed" with DRS which is just a boring arbitrary speed boost that doesn't sit well, and Pirelli's, which actually accentuate the problem because no one wants to drive within 1.5 secs of another car for more than 2-3 laps. We argue about DRS and Pirelli, and the default rebuttle to criticism of them is "so you want to go back to the old boring days?", it's not where the discussion should be starting from. We should be looking at the "old boring days", seeing the problems, and come up with real long term solutions to those issues.
 
The sport got massively sidetracked because of Canada 2010, and everyone's moaning about overtaking. They couldn't overtake because they couldn't get near each other, fix that, DRS was only ever meant to be a stop-gap, not a permanent solution, the aero regs allowing close running should be the primary focus year on year with the technical regs.

 

 

they tried to fix that remember? They got all the big brains around a table, baptized it the FIA OWG (FIA Overtaking Working Group) and they came up with the 2009 aero regs. Wide front wings, narrow rear wings yipee now wake is a thing of the past blah blah. They didn't work. Then after every team run their version of the f-duct and they saw it worked fine they re-engineered it into the DRS.

 

ps I don't know if you remember, but they even had moveable front wings for a while, to try and get cars to grip more and consequently follow each other closer. Didn't work either


Edited by EthanM, 18 November 2013 - 23:56.


#632 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • In the running for best OP of 2014

  • 3,296 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:02

rosesunglasses.jpg

Brilliant. :up: :rotfl:

#633 LoudHoward

LoudHoward
  • Member

  • 1,313 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:39

they tried to fix that remember? They got all the big brains around a table, baptized it the FIA OWG (FIA Overtaking Working Group) and they came up with the 2009 aero regs. Wide front wings, narrow rear wings yipee now wake is a thing of the past blah blah. They didn't work. Then after every team run their version of the f-duct and they saw it worked fine they re-engineered it into the DRS.

 

ps I don't know if you remember, but they even had moveable front wings for a while, to try and get cars to grip more and consequently follow each other closer. Didn't work either

 

Yes they tried it in 2009, and it cut the gap that a car could follow roughly in half did it not? You say it "didn't work" but imo it was a solid first step towards a good outcome, rather than being the solution and end all of the issue in itself. Anyways, continuing down that path, for the next step they then decided ground effect was the way to go, and that as a stop gap in the meantime they'll use DRS to get them by. Now DRS seems to be a permanent "solution", talk about the aero issue has largely disappeared, and we spend time bickering about the merits of this bandaid (DRS) on the broken leg, and the fancy novelty clown shoe on the other foot (Pirelli). No wonder F1 is hopping around with a compound fracture.



#634 ericok

ericok
  • Member

  • 40 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 19 November 2013 - 15:10

Posted my photos of the 2013 US Grand Prix.  Tried to make it look interesting:

 

http://www.flickr.co...57637841251886/



#635 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 2,104 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 19 November 2013 - 15:14

Posted my photos of the 2013 US Grand Prix.  Tried to make it look interesting:

 

http://www.flickr.co...57637841251886/

 

great photos  :up:

 

really liked this one -> http://www.flickr.co...157637841251886



#636 ericok

ericok
  • Member

  • 40 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 19 November 2013 - 15:35

I agree.  You don't see three-wide racing in formula one .... except:

 

10945438923_15a12bd602.jpg


#637 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 2,873 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 19 November 2013 - 16:27

Read the comments made during the race. I can't understand people bashing Rocky for comments and people saying Seb doing donuts is boring. I mean why shouldn't a race engineer tell the driver to take care of the car? They all tell them. And why shouldn't Seb celebrate? You didn't like the finger, so he is doing anything else. Nothing to do with boringness, just a way of celebrating.



#638 Frank Tuesday

Frank Tuesday
  • Member

  • 887 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 19 November 2013 - 17:35

I don't know if they'll fix it next year, but I walked into the track on both Friday and Sunday without having to show a ticket.  Sunday, I walked in 20 minutes before they opened the gates when they let the hospitality workers in.  I had my ticket on me, but didn't need it.  If you look at this street view, it isn't too hard to figure it out.

 

http://goo.gl/maps/RQnzD



#639 ericok

ericok
  • Member

  • 40 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 19 November 2013 - 18:39

I don't know if they'll fix it next year, but I walked into the track on both Friday and Sunday without having to show a ticket.  Sunday, I walked in 20 minutes before they opened the gates when they let the hospitality workers in.  I had my ticket on me, but didn't need it.  If you look at this street view, it isn't too hard to figure it out.

 

http://goo.gl/maps/RQnzD

Last year, I wandered the main grandstand.  This year, there actually was some security.



Advertisement

#640 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • In the running for best OP of 2014

  • 3,296 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 19 November 2013 - 18:56

I don't know if they'll fix it next year, but I walked into the track on both Friday and Sunday without having to show a ticket.  Sunday, I walked in 20 minutes before they opened the gates when they let the hospitality workers in.  I had my ticket on me, but didn't need it.  If you look at this street view, it isn't too hard to figure it out.
 
http://goo.gl/maps/RQnzD

Almost makes up for the massive spastic f#%k-up that was ticket distribution, doesn't it?

#641 zippythecat

zippythecat
  • Member

  • 81 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 19 November 2013 - 19:24

The fundamental issue with this race wasn't tires or DRS or aero, but with most of the top teams having stopped 2013 development or gotten it so badly wrong from the outset of the season they've never been competitive. I don't think it's a case of Red Bull's having come up with some magic solution. They're up against 1). a team (McLaren) that made bad initial design decisions about its 2013 car; 2). another team (Ferrari) that broke up a winning engineering staff after 2006 and has struggled ever since to get back on the plot, and 3). two teams (Lotus and Merc) that under the current regs have only intermittently fielded cars capable of taking podiums and that generally need special circumstance to be able to compete for wins. The rest of the grid doesn't have the money or engineering talent to get in the mix. For the teams at the front end there's been very little to play for since the summer break, and it's very clear they acted on that by focusing on 2014. Red Bull opted to continue developing this year's car but with the money from 3 WCCs in the bank had more ability than the others to do that.



#642 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,457 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:12

The fundamental issue with this race wasn't tires or DRS or aero, but with most of the top teams having stopped 2013 development or gotten it so badly wrong from the outset of the season they've never been competitive. I don't think it's a case of Red Bull's having come up with some magic solution. They're up against 1). a team (McLaren) that made bad initial design decisions about its 2013 car; 2). another team (Ferrari) that broke up a winning engineering staff after 2006 and has struggled ever since to get back on the plot, and 3). two teams (Lotus and Merc) that under the current regs have only intermittently fielded cars capable of taking podiums and that generally need special circumstance to be able to compete for wins. The rest of the grid doesn't have the money or engineering talent to get in the mix. For the teams at the front end there's been very little to play for since the summer break, and it's very clear they acted on that by focusing on 2014. Red Bull opted to continue developing this year's car but with the money from 3 WCCs in the bank had more ability than the others to do that.

Well, Lotus & Ferrari were pretty damned competitive before the tire change, so you could say it's about the tires in that sense. Also, the drivers were complining of poor grip all weekend and engineers were saying the added rubber hasn't really made COTA appreciably grippier than last year, so it looks like Pirelli have again gone too conservative in their compound choice. Indeed, times this year were slower than last, despite warmer temps and lots of new rubber on the surface. 



#643 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,457 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:13

200+ USGP Friday photos:
 
 
Here are a few...
 
1470095_744001892281025_1238812294_n.jpg
 
1463376_744003305614217_769236835_n.jpg
 
1472956_744007075613840_329551244_n.jpg
 
1456488_744007788947102_142303386_n.jpg
 
1000617_744008092280405_1511132238_n.jpg
 
530460_744008775613670_13543294_n.jpg
 
971511_744009688946912_1930828372_n.jpg
 
1393379_744009715613576_1291004302_n.jpg
 
1470235_744014562279758_838117179_n.jpg
 
1392782_744687675545780_1008302877_n.jpg


#644 Cool Beans

Cool Beans
  • Member

  • 1,553 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:25

Didn't watch a second of the weekend and looks like I didn't miss anything lol. Have I gotten old or is F1 just shit now?



#645 X61

X61
  • Member

  • 520 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 21 November 2013 - 15:26

Didn't watch a second of the weekend and looks like I didn't miss anything lol. Have I gotten old or is F1 just shit now?

You've lost your passion for the sport.  Hope you find it again  :).



#646 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,457 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 24 November 2013 - 09:28

I did finally manage to get through all my Saturday USGP pics. About 130 at the link. Sunday pics to follow asap!
 
 
1456561_747014521979762_528308157_n.jpg
 
1461088_747015771979637_667404571_n.jpg
 
1459795_747016281979586_1101775044_n.jpg
 
1462898_747016468646234_1434230241_n.jpg
 
971560_747016768646204_1815423734_n.jpg
 
1450888_746979158649965_751522647_n.jpg
 
1475920_746980358649845_1409324660_n.jpg
 
1459340_746980398649841_1506034217_n.jpg
 
1477635_746990628648818_566679846_n.jpg
 
1441357_747015865312961_1472636519_n.jpg


#647 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,457 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:15

Hey guys. Finally finished my Sunday USGP pics. Almost 300 of 'em here. Enjoy! 
 
 
Here's a preview:
 
1472044_749499308397950_73622660_n.jpg
 
533744_749509051730309_1597050109_n.jpg
 
1471810_749509821730232_499554406_n.jpg
 
994392_749510205063527_1506171186_n.jpg
 
1474463_749512341729980_1380135779_n.jpg
 
1470031_749510085063539_1677168182_n.jpg
 
1426702_749517638396117_691355460_n.jpg
 
1457453_749513278396553_274915089_n.jpg
 
1455057_749519321729282_939549502_n.jpg
 
1453364_749519531729261_1406231403_n.jpg