29 replies to this topic

[Jerry Entin]

A good shot of Jim Kimberly's Maserati 200SI taken during practice for the 1958 Sebring 12 Hours. But who is the man in the passenger seat? It is clearly not Kimberly's co-driver Pete Lovely. He seems to be holding a microphone, so may have been a journalist.

 

Photo: Bob Bellows

Edited by Jerry Entin, 17 November 2013 - 20:59.

[GMACKIE]

Could it be the driver, calling on the P.A......."OK, who's the smart bastard who moved the steering wheel?"

[JB Miltonian]

Might be one of those Riverside Records / "Sounds of Sebring" deals?

[Bloggsworth]

I was puzzled for a while; a Maserati in America must be left-hand drive, mustn't it, so why was the passenger sitting in the driver's seat? Then I spotted the steering wheel in the British position...

[RogerFrench]

I was puzzled for a while; a Maserati in America must be left-hand drive, mustn't it, so why was the passenger sitting in the driver's seat? Then I spotted the steering wheel in the British position...

Call it the "British Position" if you will, but I suspect most Maserati 200s were Right-hand drive, like most European sports-racing cars of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and indeed earlier, until relatively recently. Something to do with most circuits being run clockwise therefore more right-hand corners than left. Or so I've been told.
The M-B 300 SLR was a 50s notable exception, perhaps there were others.

Edited by RogerFrench, 19 November 2013 - 16:32.

[D-Type]

That seems true for Italian cars and to a lesser extent for French cars.  But the German cars seem to nearly always be LHD, possibly reflecting road car origins.

[arttidesco]

IIRC the 300SLR was based on the single seat open wheel W196, hardly a road car

[D-Type]

IIRC the 300SLR was based on the single seat open wheel W196, hardly a road car

But the 300SL (W194), Porsche 718, Borgward RS, Porsche 550, BMW 328, Adler Trumpf, Mercedes SSKL, etc were not based on single seaters. 

[Ray Bell]

While the 300SLR had mechanical components largely derived from the W196, I think the chassis had a lot of general principles brought over from the 300SL Gullwing, which was a space frame also.

 

I would love to know more about these things, but generally I'm thinking that the sports car couldn't follow the chassis detail of the openwheeler closely enough to be so identified.

[arttidesco]

Back to the question in hand didn't Walter Cronkite take part in Sebring one year ? Could it be him with the microphone ?

[Roger Clark]

While the 300SLR had mechanical components largely derived from the W196, I think the chassis had a lot of general principles brought over from the 300SL Gullwing, which was a space frame also.
 
I would love to know more about these things, but generally I'm thinking that the sports car couldn't follow the chassis detail of the openwheeler closely enough to be so identified.

That's right. The frame of the SLR was different from the Grand Prix car although the brakes and suspension were the same.

[RogerFrench]

The 300SLR was also, let us remind ourselves, properly termed W196S.

[Allan Lupton]

Call it the "British Position" if you will, but I suspect most Maserati 200s were Right-hand drive, like most European sports-racing cars of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and indeed earlier, until relatively recently. Something to do with most circuits being run clockwise therefore more right-hand corners than left. Or so I've been told.

Not just sports-racers, but Italian sporting cars and French Grand Routiers used right hand drive in right hand rule of the road countries into the 1950s.

As Roger says, the Maserati sports-racers were right handed and a quick look at Jenks' piece on the Mille Miglia in Motor Sport for June 1956 shows the race car and the practice cars.

[Emery0323]

That seems true for Italian cars and to a lesser extent for French cars.  But the German cars seem to nearly always be LHD, possibly reflecting road car origins.

I can recall reading somewhere (Anthony Pritchard's book?) that Porsche switched their prototype racers from LHD to RHD when the Porsche 910 was superceded by the Porsche 907, in 1967.

[JoBo]

I can recall reading somewhere (Anthony Pritchard's book?) that Porsche switched their prototype racers from LHD to RHD when the Porsche 910 was superceded by the Porsche 907, in 1967.

 

 

I can recall reading somewhere (Anthony Pritchard's book?) that Porsche switched their prototype racers from LHD to RHD when the Porsche 910 was superceded by the Porsche 907, in 1967.

 

 

Can anybody tell me what the RHD- and Porsche-stuff here has to do with this thread? Jerry Entin`s question is still not answered...

 

JoBo

Edited by JoBo, 20 November 2013 - 23:34.

[JtP1]

The reason for the rhd on continental sports cars is for observing the edge of the road in the mountains. The driver can look over the side of his car to see how far from the edge of the drop off. They used to sell rhd vans in mountainous regions for the same reason.

Edited by JtP1, 21 November 2013 - 00:46.

[275 GTB-4]

The reason for the rhd on continental sports cars is for observing the edge of the road in the mountains. The driver can look over the side of his car to see how far from the edge of the drop off. They used to sell rhd vans in mountainous regions for the same reason.

 

Ergh...doesn't this depend on the direction of travel? I know! Petty....just wondering

[RCH]

The reason for the rhd on continental sports cars is for observing the edge of the road in the mountains. The driver can look over the side of his car to see how far from the edge of the drop off. They used to sell rhd vans in mountainous regions for the same reason.

 

I believe that luxury cars from Italy and France had RHD because this made it easier for the chauffeur to exit onto the pavement and open the rear door. In an age when such things mattered it made your "man" seem more efficient.

[GMACKIE]

Ergh...doesn't this depend on the direction of travel? I know! Petty....just wondering

Don't rush in, Mick....think about it. If you are driving on the right-hand side of the road in a RHD car, the you will be close to the edge of the road, whatever the direction of travel.

[RCH]

Don't rush in, Mick....think about it. If you are driving on the right-hand side of the road in a RHD car, the you will be close to the edge of the road, whatever the direction of travel.

 

On the other hand if it's a single track road?

[Michael Oliver]

Oh for goodness sake! Just take a minute to read back through this thread and see that, through one throwaway comment, the entire thread has been ruined by posters who are discussing an irrelevance that is COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC. Take your irrelevant opinions on this subject and express them in a separate thread please.

 

Jerry Entin consistently comes up with some great, extremely valuable and interesting topics for discussion on this forum and that is to be encouraged. When things like this happen I would imagine it must put him off of posting anything because it ends up getting hijacked and that is something most serious contributors to this forum would not want to see.

 

This thread is about who is in the passenger seat of the Maserati and nothing else. Please stick to the topic!

[Ray Bell]

I can see why you're upset about that...

 

There seems to be no limit to how some will carry on along some silly sideline.

[RCH]

Oh for goodness sake! Just take a minute to read back through this thread and see that, through one throwaway comment, the entire thread has been ruined by posters who are discussing an irrelevance that is COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC. Take your irrelevant opinions on this subject and express them in a separate thread please.

 

Jerry Entin consistently comes up with some great, extremely valuable and interesting topics for discussion on this forum and that is to be encouraged. When things like this happen I would imagine it must put him off of posting anything because it ends up getting hijacked and that is something most serious contributors to this forum would not want to see.

 

This thread is about who is in the passenger seat of the Maserati and nothing else. Please stick to the topic!

 

Oh for goodness sake yourself, threads frequently go off topic, it's the nature of the beast and much interesting information emerges because of this. If anyone has any information on the original topic they will let us know, otherwise OT comments keep the thread listed high up and maybe increases the time when someone who definitely knows the answer has to spot it.

[JoBo]

 

 

Oh for goodness sake! Just take a minute to read back through this thread and see that, through one throwaway comment, the entire thread has been ruined by posters who are discussing an irrelevance that is COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC. Take your irrelevant opinions on this subject and express them in a separate thread please.

 

Jerry Entin consistently comes up with some great, extremely valuable and interesting topics for discussion on this forum and that is to be encouraged. When things like this happen I would imagine it must put him off of posting anything because it ends up getting hijacked and that is something most serious contributors to this forum would not want to see.

 

This thread is about who is in the passenger seat of the Maserati and nothing else. Please stick to the topic!

 

Can`t agree more (see post #15) - but it seems they don`t care.....!

 

JoBo

Edited by JoBo, 21 November 2013 - 11:36.

[B Squared]

In the recent New Look Forum is Here thread, there was discussion about the absence of longtime contributors and why they may have departed. This is a prime example, in my opinion, of a situation that is too common on this forum. Any connection?

 

Thanks, as always, to Jerry Entin for his interesting contributions.

[JB Miltonian]

Has my suggestion (post #3) been dismissed without comment?  If the passenger is indeed holding a microphone, seems quite possible to me that he is a recording engineer for "Sounds of Sebring".

[fbarrett]

If it was a Sounds of Sebring guy, could it be Bill Grauer or one of his staff? I dug out my copy of the 1958 Sounds of Sebring, but it doesn't mention Maserati or Kimberly. Riverside Records/Bill Grauer Productions staff listed are: Barrett Clark, producer and narrator; Robert Richer, associate producer; and Ray Fowler, engineer.

 

Other possibilities that struck me are John Bentley or Charles Addams.

 

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 21 November 2013 - 17:22.

[Ray Bell]

I have never heard of the Sounds of Sebring, but it does sound interesting...

 

Definitely on-topic, I hope someone has further information.

[275 GTB-4]

Audio here :(hopefully...if forum software allows)

 

http://www.scottgrun...-1956/index.php

[Jim Thurman]

I'm going to say it's a journo of some kind.  Did "The Sounds of Sebring" actually record a lap in car?  I asked someone about Riverside Records and they doubted the recording being done in car, that they usually placed microphones and recorded around the perimeter of the track.

 

Another fascinating photo though.