272 replies to this topic

[Cyanide]

Just so we are clear, I have no beef against Vettel - hats off to him, rub his nose twice, do whatever pleases you, because he deserves every praise for his performances. 

 

Vettel's brilliant races aside there is a serious problem with this sport. There is no competition, there's lack of enthusiasm and the rules are hellbent on destroying any hope of good old fashioned racing. I witnessed it in Abu Dhabi, and I witnessed it in Austin. Forget Vettel's dominance - sure, it adds to the borefest, but it's not the only concern. Behind P1 there is a serious lack of racing happening lately. 

 

I've recently seen an article somewhere, a compilation by the FIA of the top motorsport moments of 2013. And guess what? No F1 moment in there. Not even one. Personally,I also cannot recall a single brilliant overtaking maneuver anywhere this year. No jump-from-your-seat moments, or even the slightest WOW effect throughout the whole season (except perhaps Bottas's move on Gutierrez this weekend).

 

I haven't the time nor the patience to analyze whether the recent lack of excitement is down to the robotic DRS overtakes or the tyres. But let's face it. Pirelli can no longer take the blame here. We've had self-destructing tyres, 3 lap lasting tyres, 4 pit stops in a race, rock solid tyres, 1 stoppers, and the list goes on. The circumstances were different each time, the conditions were different but the average racing was always present. 

 

I'm curious if people are still hanging on to this so called "pinnacle of motorsport" when it's a shadow of its former self and seems to be collapsing its reputation recently. Do you still enjoy Formula 1 and why? 

[John Player]

Somehow yes.

 

I don't know

[Andrew Hope]

This year I enjoy it in the same way I enjoy poking a sore tooth with my tongue to make it hurt more.

[Absulute]

I still watch every race, but I haven't really enjoyed it for a while.  

 

The inevitability of the result just takes away any excitement.

[KingTiger]

No, and not just because Red Bull is so superior to everyone else. The whole environment has been completely transformed for the absolute worse. Horrible tracks, horrible tires, horrible looking cars, fake racing, corrupt governing (..OK that was always there) have turned this great championship into a complete farce.

[Miggeex]

I enjoy it still since there's a lot going on behind the lead. And talking about the lead, it's the nature of the sport when someone dominates so that's not new. 

 

It also makes it more enjoyable when someone else happens to win some guy who has been unbeatable. I wouldn't be too satisfied if a different driver would win every race. Like 2012 first 7 races I felt like it was just about luck and not about skills and quality in engineering anymore.

 

This sort of times also reminds that the next time we'll have tough WDC fight, we should really enjoy it since the nature of this sport will lead again to a one team dominating for long periods.

Edited by Miggeex, 17 November 2013 - 22:23.

[thechin]

Not really. 

 

I'm not a fan of Vettel - I'll state that upfront - but I can appreciate he is quite a good driver. I find his current domination boring and it is putting me off watching completely. 

 

Anyone who has watched F1 for as long as I have will know deep down that things are manipulated to suit certain agendas - I'm not saying it is all a fix, but there have always been moves made, either in plain view or behind the scenes, to favour certain teams and drivers. In some instances these have been done to spice up the show and prolong title battles. I have watched these battles with the nagging doubt that it isn't a true sport I'm watching, but at least it was entertaining. 

 

The two worst periods in F1 in my lifetime have been the Schumacher/Ferrari domination and the current Redbull domination. Both periods are to me examples of one team currying favour with the sports rulers through one method or another and having a ridiculous advantage because of it. The last few years have seen many examples of Redbull either bending the rules or plain cheating them and getting away with it. 

 

And they are so good that they don't even really need it now to win. 

 

There is one main driving factor  to this sport - money. An Austrian billionaire with a fizzy drink to promote has lined the pockets of a greedy old dwarf, he is now reaping the rewards.

[Wander]

Strangely enough yes.

 

But next year I'm going to switch to Formula E and supporting Super Aguri.

[RubalSher]

I dont enjoy it as much as I used to and have been watching for a decade now. I have still watched every race this year but I turn my telly on just in time for the race. Earlier it would be a ritual that would start even 2 hours before the start of the race. My predominant beef is that this is no longer racing - it is a manipulated entertainment show. Sad to say, it is a dying sport too with spectators and viewership on the decline and no matter what, I can see F1 ceasing to exist in its current avatar much sooner than later.

[pacificquay]

I do enjoy it.

It hasn't got worse, it has always been like that

[DanardiF1]

I still watch every race, but I haven't really enjoyed it for a while.  

 

The inevitability of the result just takes away any excitement.

 

This.

[McLarenNo1]

Last year the race was exciting because tyres allowed you to push, this year they had to manage them a lot which made race boring like most of the races this year. Hope next year fuel management does not become a similar factor as the Pirelli tyres, it would most likely add to the boredom. Also looking at how cars are, they don't look alive as they used to. I don't enjoy F1 since Pirelli came back into F1. One of the reasons why Webber is quitting F1 even. Hopefully F1 goes back to what being the pinnacle is about. Not racing on tyres which is the complete opposite of what F1 is, quality level even with severe pace management not holding up. Forget that, even on lower formula Sprint races, tyres not holding up without managing them a lot early on.

Edited by McLarenNo1, 17 November 2013 - 22:31.

[senna da silva]

Yes. This period of domination is slightly more palatable than the Schumacher era, but barely.

Onto 2014 and the hope that Pirelli will supply tyres that are raceable.

[Victor]

I slept for the entire USA GP.

I really miss what F1 used to be. I think automatic overtaking is destroying the sport.

[swerved]

Yes, and its still as eagerly anticipated as it ever has been, its a competition, one team and driver has been dominating for a while, a long while, but i still enjoy seeing who does the best job with what they've got, even if its not good enough for them to win, i enjoy glimpsing the frustrations of those who are unable to beat the winners as much as i enjoy the efforts they put in in order to try.

 

There's so much more to it than "just" who crosses the line first.

[DarthWillie]

yes I do, 

 

sure there are some areas that call for improvement. But generally I think F1 is in a better state race wise than it has been for a long time.

 

todays race suffered from a horribly designed track that only caters for DRS overtakes. I think only Bottas overtook without DRS being involved. Abu Dhabi also had too prominent DRS zones. But generally we have seen some very good fights behind P1 this year.

I don't have a problem with DRS as a tool helping overtaking, it should however not guarantee overtaking. Koreas was a good example were Hulkenberg good defend against DRS overtakes.

 

I remember with horror the refuelling area. No attempts at overtaking, just wait for the pitstops. Wasn't there a Barcelona gp with 1 overtake? We see more racing these days.

 

I've been following F1 since 1980 and sure there could be different racing in those days. But let us not pretend simply adopting the rules of those days would give us the same racing. With designers not having cfd or extreme windtunnel time the cars lacked efficiency and therefore could race each other closely. Giving the designers the 1981 rules would probably give us uncontrollable rocketships with such extreme earodynamics, overtaking would be simply impossible.

 

The times have changed, and F1 has had to change with it. Is there room for improvement? Sure. But I don't recall a season that didn't need improvements. somehow in the minds of people 1986 was a classic season (and it was   ) but let us not forget that was a fuel economy run, drivers were not going flat out but always looked at their fuel gauges.

 

Room for imporvement:  tires could be a bit more durable some races. DRS zones could be shorter in some places. We could us a couple not designed by Tilke tracks,

Things to cheer about: We have a range of top drivers in Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkonen. There have been some very exciting races these past years. There are some very promising new drivers comming in Grosjean, Hulkenberg and maybe Magnussen.

 

I still like F1 

[HP]

Yes

 

History is being made by a dominant force, which to this extent will not happen always, so I',m staying tuned. There have been good and exiting races, good overtakes being made,

 

IMO we only would know what we are missing is if there is no F1 anymore.

Edited by HP, 17 November 2013 - 22:40.

[bub]

I still enjoy it somewhat. Reason being there are some good battles for some positions but it could definitely be better. Too much domination. Too much tyre problems.

Edited by bub, 17 November 2013 - 22:42.

[August]

Haven't enjoyed F1 since 2011 2nd half. The races have been either VET/RBR domination or tyre lottery, don't like either of them too much.

 

I just can't anymore find the interest I once had. I don't like what F1 is currently like. Also I really have less time for following sports than before, maybe that's another reason for the reduced interest.

 

Today I had the stream of the race but really didn't follow much after the start, even though my thoughts were probably still too much in the Davis Cup final.

 

And now I have the stream of the NASCAR race but hard to find interest. A few years ago I might have wanted to see the season finale despite knowing the drivers. Seems that my interest in other motorsports has reduced alongside my F1 interest. Maybe I'm just not a true motorsport fan, or maybe I just don't have time for it. Le Mans is very much the only racing category I follow nowadays more than before, F1 becoming less interesting forced me to see other forms of racing and Le Mans is truly the most interesting race of the year.

[stanga]

Not really.

The 'sport' is sick, financially. A symptom of this illness is Maldonado strutting about the paddock like a dog with two cocks, potentially displacing drivers like the Hulk simply because he has the cash. It makes me sad, really because I still love the cars, despite them looking pretty ugly these days.

[917k]

It's all about ''what have you done for me lately''. Last year, there were many fans, scribes, even non-fans saying F1 was the best series - with the best racing - any artificiality aside.[and leave out the fact that many of the ''hard-core'' despised the unpredictability of it all]

 

I bet I can find my post from last year, after Canada, where everyone was going nuts over the racing. I said, wait a year and everyone will be telling us how **** everything is and how the whole thing needs to be blown up............

 

One year on - same old same old as far as I'm concerned. You need to be a fan of the sport for more than a year or two to understand the ups and downs. The whole world seemed to be hating on F1 when Schumacher won everything, and they will do the same with Vettel or the next dominator.

 

I look at F1 as an evolution - understanding that the realities of economics, safety and the need to ''entertain'' have changed the sport forever. If you understand and accept that tracks like Dijon and Brands Hatch are not coming back, nor are unrev-limited V-12's or 900 bhp, then you can just accept it for what it is.

 

Almost everything else out there is spec. - dictated by money and the need for close-racing to keep semi-fans interested. We are not there yet, but I can see the day coming and I won't like it but it will be what it will be.

Edited by 917k, 17 November 2013 - 22:45.

[Kingshark]

2013 has been abysmal compared to 2012. However, I still do enjoy it, just not to the same degree I did last season.

[Vesuvius]

I will always enjoy F1 ..sometimes more and sometimes less but I like F1.

[Britophile]

Just so we are clear, I have no beef against Vettel - hats off to him, rub his nose twice, do whatever pleases you, because he deserves every praise for his performances. 

 

Vettel's brilliant races aside there is a serious problem with this sport. There is no competition, there's lack of enthusiasm and the rules are hellbent on destroying any hope of good old fashioned racing. I witnessed it in Abu Dhabi, and I witnessed it in Austin. Forget Vettel's dominance - sure, it adds to the borefest, but it's not the only concern. Behind P1 there is a serious lack of racing happening lately. 

 

This.

 

Absolutely my thoughts. I have been following this sport for decades. Now I just don't know if I want to anymore. What is happening now in the series is not racing. They just do 50-60 formation laps at high speed and that's it. Advanced aerodynamics have ruined true racing. God forbid you dive in next to an opponent for a late braking, because you get marbles and you leave that precious rubbered racing line. God forbid you follow closely another car, because that destroys your tyres and the dirty air tips the car off-balance. God forbid you try to fend off your opponents on the track, let's wait for the pit stops instead. They follow each other with some 2-3 sec gaps between them, they do several pit stops and then they get the chequered flag ninety minutes later. 

 

This is just horrible, I mean, proper horrible. I just had a chat with my wife that if next year won't be any different, we will be rewatching old races from the eighties on Sundays instead of watching the actual 2014 GPs. What is happening in F1 nowadays is not entertainment by any means, the show is dead. It's just a boring, soulless, uninteresting and uninspiring parade of so called racing cars following each other from start to finish.

[fisssssi]

Would 2013 hurt so much if Vettel hadn't won in 2010 and 2012?

 

Somehow I feel if he was romping away to his 2nd world championship instead of his 4th, people would be much more forgiving.

 

To answer the question, yes I'm enjoying F1 like I always have and always will. These seasons of dominance will make the year he is toppled all the more sweeter.

[Andrew Hope]

This makes for interesting reading.

 

I didn't make that, by the way. Just found it and it's something to think about.

[stanga]

This.

Absolutely my thoughts. I have been following this sport for decades. Now I just don't know if I want to anymore. What is happening now in the series is not racing. They just do 50-60 formation laps at high speed and that's it. Advanced aerodynamics have ruined true racing. God forbid you dive in next to an opponent for a late braking, because you get marbles and you leave that precious rubbered racing line. God forbid you follow closely another car, because that destroys your tyres and the dirty air tips the car off-balance. God forbid you try to fend off your opponents on the track, let's wait for the pit stops instead. They follow each other with some 2-3 sec gaps between them, they do several pit stops and then they get the chequered flag ninety minutes later.

This is just horrible, I mean, proper horrible. I just had a chat with my wife that if next year won't be any different, we will be rewatching old races from the eighties on Sundays instead of watching the actual 2014 GPs. What is happening in F1 nowadays is not entertainment by any means, the show is dead. It's just a boring, soulless, uninteresting and uninspiring parade of so called racing cars following each other from start to finish.

Nail on the head for me.

[P0inters]

*Sigh* Reading this thread has really made me depressed about what F1 has become , and how boring it is.  

[PilgrimsDrop]

Yes... there is more to this sport than just the battle for P1... I just wish all the moaners would learn to love it for what it is.

 

Domination is a part of F1... it has been around since it's inception... Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, Lotus etc have all dominated the sport in one or more eras... It's a cycle that comes and goes like the tide... 

 

Today Vettel was his flawless self at the front we had lot's of good battles and performances from drivers throughout the field where, to me, Bottas shone bright and showed his potential once again...

 

If you only follow F1 because of 1 driver then I guess it can be boring... but then you need to open your eyes and really enjoy the sport and learn more about it... or start doing something else because you'll be disappointed more often than not

[bub]

Advanced aerodynamics have ruined true racing. God forbid you dive in next to an opponent for a late braking, because you get marbles and you leave that precious rubbered racing line. God forbid you follow closely another car, because that destroys your tyres and the dirty air tips the car off-balance. God forbid you try to fend off your opponents on the track, let's wait for the pit stops instead.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Moosed]

i still watch it despite it being utterly dreadful in every way imaginable, kind of like people who still watch walking dead... you know its awful but you've invested so much time in it you feel you have to do your time and sit through it until the end.

Edited by Moosed, 17 November 2013 - 22:54.

[McLarenNo1]

This.

 

Absolutely my thoughts. I have been following this sport for decades. Now I just don't know if I want to anymore. What is happening now in the series is not racing. They just do 50-60 formation laps at high speed and that's it. Advanced aerodynamics have ruined true racing. God forbid you dive in next to an opponent for a late braking, because you get marbles and you leave that precious rubbered racing line. God forbid you follow closely another car, because that destroys your tyres and the dirty air tips the car off-balance. God forbid you try to fend off your opponents on the track, let's wait for the pit stops instead. They follow each other with some 2-3 sec gaps between them, they do several pit stops and then they get the chequered flag ninety minutes later. 

 

This is just horrible, I mean, proper horrible. I just had a chat with my wife that if next year won't be any different, we will be rewatching old races from the eighties on Sundays instead of watching the actual 2014 GPs. What is happening in F1 nowadays is not entertainment by any means, the show is dead. It's just a boring, soulless, uninteresting and uninspiring parade of so called racing cars following each other from start to finish.

Agree on this apart from where you said advanced aerodynamics has ruined true racing. What you describe is the poor quality tyres that by many seem to struggle to do a lap on the limit without degrading into a window that makes the driver a passenger unless he slows down. It is not like this track is what made the race boring, I think last years race was the most exciting race on Pirelli tyres mainly due to tyres not degrading like they normally do. Battles with cars on the limit of tyres most of the race and good close battles and competitive overtakes.

 

I don't mind the dominance by Vettel, at least he is doing it in style. Some of the excitement of F1 comes from that in a way as he can still drive at a reasonable pace.

Edited by McLarenNo1, 17 November 2013 - 22:55.

[Muz Bee]

Well done to RedBull and Vettel even if you have become the most boring thing in F1 for nearly 10 years! You have to hand it to them they have done a terrific job - 8 in a row against a pretty decent field of champions is unthinkably great.

 

Kimi and Lewis have been outstanding mostly and Grosjean surprising. Ferrari have been a disappointment and Williams a tragedy still playing out.

 

Unless you're a RedBull/Vettel fan there's Nothing to get fizzed about. Once again I am closing the F1 book, this is as dull as the 2001-5 era of dominance by MS. The artificial overtaking aids add nothing and the perennial problem of aero is still there largely unaddressed. Now we have a mandated supply of useless tyres that result in drivers having to drive to "delta" and not getting too "racey".

 

Thanks for all the polite, the humorous and the well reasoned posts I have enjoyed being part of over the last 6 years whether I agree or disagree with you.  

Edited by Muz Bee, 17 November 2013 - 23:11.

[Lotus53B]

I still enjoy F1, but when me and my F1 buddies are discussing the new curtain rods one of them has, during the race, you know that there is something missing from the racing

Edited by Lotus53B, 17 November 2013 - 22:57.

[tomisumi]

Yes I enjoy, because I love F1...

[917k]

This makes for interesting reading.

 

I didn't make that, by the way. Just found it and it's something to think about.

 

What a **** thing to post. And, F1 has been like this since 1950.

[SUPRAF1]

I can remember every race from 2012, who was first, second, third, and what happened in the race.

 

For 2013 all I can recall is Hamilton saying "Now I'm being overtaken by a Williams" in Spain and the Korean GP jeep...Oh, and Webber on fire.

[krea]

Well, F1 would be better if the other teams wouldn't suck so bad.

[Nonesuch]

I still enjoy it, but I have to admit most of my enjoyment now comes from the fact that I'm watching the races with others. The extremely limited development that is left just doesn't do it for me. In too many regards F1 has become a spec series in all but name.

 

With regards to this year, I often think back to Hamilton's comment in Spain: "I can't drive any slower." Managing tyres, engines, fuel etc. has always been part of the game, but it has too often been farcical this year.

 

Would 2013 hurt so much if Vettel hadn't won in 2010 and 2012?

 

Somehow I feel if he was romping away to his 2nd world championship instead of his 4th, people would be much more forgiving.

 

I agree. People sometimes pretend that Vettel and Red Bull have dominated since the second half of 2009, but it's simply not true. In both 2010 and 2012 Alonso was within a few points of the title.

 

This makes for interesting reading.

 

I didn't make that, by the way. Just found it and it's something to think about.

 

That doesn't surprise me, but I disagree with the conclusion that F1 is not competitive because the grid positions reflect the race results. What did the creator expect? There are no more qualifying setups. No more qualifying tyres. No more qualifying engines. Of course the result of the race and qualifying is going to be similar. F1 races might not be 'competitive' in that sense, but seasons often are. The pendulum goes back and forth between drivers and teams. Unfortunately, Red Bull now dominates on slow tracks, on fast tracks, on street tracks, and on old and new tracks alike. And it only has one driver on top of his game.

 

This year reminds me of 2002. Ferrari and Schumacher did a good job, sure. But the incompetence of the other teams made it such a dominant spectacle.

Edited by Nonesuch, 17 November 2013 - 23:12.

[Dolph]

There's nothing wrong with F1 racing nowadays.

[Moosed]

For 2013 all I can recall is Hamilton saying "Now I'm being overtaken by a Williams"

 

one of the funnier radio transmissions this year

[tifosi]

No, but has nothing to do with Red Bull or Vettel dominance.

I am a Ferrari fan and yet my favorite period of F1 was mid 80s to early 90s, not exactly a period of winning Ferrari's so its not any "fanboyism".

What fascinated me most about Grand Prix Racing was those weekly battles between the constructors/manufacturers to find that next 1/100th of time.  Reading articles about Shell's new fuel mixture or Maranello's attempt to shave 1mm off the thickness of its decals totally fascinated me and made F1 unique in the world of racing.  All of the inovations, the testing, the development was THE thing made Grand Prix Racing the ultimate in the sport.

[Lemans]

It's just not very sexy anymore.

There is very little drama, fire or brimstone. Anyone who is a tiny bit outspoken is immediately slammed by overly sensitive, asshole fans. The cars are aesthetically challenged, and the nature of some of the modern tracks make them look almost embarrassingly slow on television. Todays race was a perfect example-the cars looked incredibly lazy and really slow in a straight line because of the enourmous scale of the track and it's surroundings.

It's just...blah!

[David Lightman]

Flash point for me today was seeing the group of technicians huddled over laptops monitoring the cars. It just seems so ridiculously over the top to me now, it shouldn't take so many people just to keep two cars going round a track. Just when I'd like the cars to get massively simpler we have the farce of next years engines arriving. This sport generates billions yet most of the teams are in financial trouble, what a joke it all is.

[f1supreme]

And next year we might have more of the same, plus cars that frequently can't last the race distance.

[Doughnut King]

DRS has taken something out of it for me. The overtaking is just too easy at times, and no matter how much Croft screams how good it is, part of me thinks any driver in the same (overtaking) car could easily do the same.

[Spillage]

Yes. I have no problem with the Vettel domination; that's just the way it goes sometimes. 

 

F1's biggest problem is financial. Pay drivers have always been around but they seem more prevalent than ever. When a successful team like Lotus can't afford to take a great young driver like Hulkenberg then F1 needs to have a serious think about how its revenue is allocated.

[Wretched]

I haven't watched a F1 race this year.  I didn't enjoy last season so i gave it a rest this year.

The Vettel domination is not the issue, I have no concern about him winning so much (it is up to the other teams to come back and fight).

My issues are around how the sport is run and the regulations around car design.

I used to think F1 was the pinnacle of motorsport, that technologically and speed wise nothing could touch them.  That used to be the case but now with all the regulations holding the teams back I fear the innovations that come out of the sport are just not there anymore.

The straw the broke camel's back for me was the Pirelli tyres (not Pirelli as such but the requirement by FIA).  For the drivers not able to drive to their full potential lap after lap just defeats the purpose of the sport for me.

 

I have taken a keener interest in WEC and with Webber moving to Porsche I cannot see myself looking at F1 for a while.

[Fastcake]

The last half of this season has been quite poor, but that has not yet diminished my enjoyment of the sport. If the current state of affairs persists for several years then yes, I may start to lose interest, but currently I'm just bearing through the races and hoping next year's cars will deliver more entertaining racing.

[andrewr]

I think I'm almost done with F1 after decades of being an avid fan. Mainly because of all the artificial additions (DRS, crappy tyres).

 

MotoGP is still worth it, and maybe Formula E next year.

Edited by andrewr, 18 November 2013 - 00:25.