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Positions Lost and Gained on Lap 1.


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#1 sheogorath

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 21:47

Someone made this and posted it on twitter. It's a table of positions gained and lost on lap 1 at each GP by each driver.

 

20543o8.jpg

 

There are some very curious numbers, like Sutil losing 16 places at Bahrain or Felipe Massa losing 15 places in Korea  while Vettel barely moves since he is usually on pole.


Edited by sheogorath, 20 November 2013 - 21:48.


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#2 Exb

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 21:54

You can lose positions from pole but not gain any. The surprise on that list is Lewis, I know the Merc is bad on its tyres so over a race expect him to lose quite a few positions as he qualifies well but hadn't realised he had lost so many positions on lap 1.

#3 Will

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 21:56

Somewhat skewed by the accident on Lap 1 of Japan though

#4 Exb

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:00

Somewhat skewed by the accident on Lap 1 of Japan though


I don't really mean total number of positions lost because like you said Japan skews it but amount of races he has lost positions, more than he has either kept or gained positions. I always had Lewis down as a good starter but doesn't seem to be the case this year. Maybe he is still getting used to the start procedure on the merc?

Its an interesting table but probably can't read too much into it.

#5 icecream

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:04

great idea for a post.  i'd get rid of the outlier events & incidents (such as hamilton's -17 in japan) to get a better idea of how good drivers general starts are.

 

no surprise to see webber at the bottom. contrast with vettel losing just one place the entire season.  it's hard being a webber fan  :(

 

some surprises at the top end. 


Edited by icecream, 20 November 2013 - 22:06.


#6 Atreiu

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:17

Gosh Hamilton...

Just noticed it, still, Japan aside, there is room for improvement.


Edited by Atreiu, 20 November 2013 - 22:19.


#7 g1n

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:26

Webber :o



#8 tommi34

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:29

Not surprising that the most aggressive and crash-prone guys like Maldonado and Perez are so high



#9 Exb

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:30

Studying these numbers a bit closer - surely that gain of 14 places for Massa in Monaco is incorrect. I know the Ferrari is great at starts but... (that would have put him up to about 8th position). I have a pretty bad memory but am sure I would have remembered a start like that :)

#10 charly0418

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:32

Not surprising that the most aggressive and crash-prone guys like Maldonado and Perez are so high

 

surprising is however that Perez has 0 1st lap crashes



#11 LoudHoward

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 22:50

I don't think Webber lost 7 spots in Monaco.



#12 Exb

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 23:00

I don't think Webber lost 7 spots in Monaco.


No - Webber had a great start in Monaco, both Red Bulls did, they were all over the Mercs but as its Monaco there was no way past. Shame Mark can't have that kind of start on a "normal" racetrack.

#13 discover23

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 23:01

I don't think Webber lost 7 spots in Monaco.

I think he did..

can we now say that Williams has the best launch control system.. lol



#14 Amin

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 23:05

I've been quite disappointed with Kimi's starts this year, especially compared to 2012. 

 

What's up with the Monaco starts?


Edited by Amin, 20 November 2013 - 23:08.


#15 P123

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 23:28

Gosh Hamilton...

Just noticed it, still, Japan aside, there is room for improvement.

 

Agreed, in that some of his opening laps have been shockers, such as India or Spain.   Disagree, in that If you discount the Japan puncture, the general figures over the season aren't that much different from Rosberg, the direct comparison.

 

The real shocker (or maybe not) is Webber.  No major issues but the worst of the lot.



#16 Mauseri

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 23:34

surprising is however that Perez has 0 1st lap crashes

People have learned to avoid him.



#17 charly0418

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 23:42

People have learned to avoid him.

 

hahaha, I love these extremist views



#18 Fastcake

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 00:06

And unsurprisingly, Webber is at the bottom :|

 

Interesting table. Seeing Pastor so far up makes me wonder just how some of them must of been underperforming in qualifying.



#19 sheogorath

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 02:55

No - Webber had a great start in Monaco, both Red Bulls did, they were all over the Mercs but as its Monaco there was no way past. Shame Mark can't have that kind of start on a "normal" racetrack.

 

I'm thinking because this table is not only about the start but the entire first lap. But I could be wrong.



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#20 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 07:49

Studying these numbers a bit closer - surely that gain of 14 places for Massa in Monaco is incorrect. I know the Ferrari is great at starts but... (that would have put him up to about 8th position). I have a pretty bad memory but am sure I would have remembered a start like that :)

 

That's definitely wrong. Massa started 20th (21st on grid but Bianchi started from the pits) and was 18th on lap 1. Not sure what the chart is actually about.



#21 Exb

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:44

sheogorath
Posted Today, 02:55
I'm thinking because this table is not only about the start but the entire first lap. But I could be wrong.

I don't remember him losing any places though - he was 4th and right up the gear box of the other Red Bull until he pitted.

#22 Lights

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:02

Impressive by Maldonado.



#23 WimJ

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:07

Monaco points seem wrong for more... Webber, Lewis didn't loose places and Vettel didn't gain a place. Qualy was ROS, HAM, VET, WEB and after the first lap it was still the same.



#24 chipmcdonald

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:24

That chart doesn't really reveal anything, because it doesn't weight who is qualifying their car above or below it's performance.   If Maldonado sucks at qualifying relative to his car, but then gains positions does that mean it's Maldonado's performance, or the car?

 

My sense is the only thing that sticks out on there is that Perez is underrated, and Hamilton has had a lot of bad starts relative to his skill.



#25 DampMongoose

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:33

As queried previously, Massa's 16 places at Monaco is utter b******t as the FIA lap chart shows him climbing from last to 18th at the end of lap 1.  Just to add to the credibility of the table Sutil losing 16 places from starting 8th at Bahrain would put him in 24th position at the end of lap 1...that's some skill in a 22 car race.



#26 Peter Perfect

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:48

ermm... shouldn't each column add up to zero? (a position won by one driver will match a position lost by another). I just added up the US GP and got +4



#27 alframsey

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:09

Somewhat skewed by the accident on Lap 1 of Japan though

True but it's very surprising, for me at least, the he on regular occasion loses positions. Something I had noticed this season tbh, he used to be so mega on the starts. Like in Austin last weekend, wonderful start there...



#28 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:11

Impressive by Maldonado.

 

 

From the back, you can only go forwards.

 

The reverse of that statement is also true; just look at Webber.



#29 Jerem

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:13

ermm... shouldn't each column add up to zero? (a position won by one driver will match a position lost by another). I just added up the US GP and got +4

Because Kovalainen isn't in the list and has lost 4 positions I guess.



#30 tmzxaar

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:21

The list has some errors, like Hamilton -2 in Monaco, he actually kept his position.



#31 Lights

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:34

From the back, you can only go forwards.

Apparently Bottas and Vergne still find ways to do the impossible.



#32 tmzxaar

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:37

Vettel also didn't lose any positions in Korea... someone should do this list properly!



#33 Lights

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:39

Vettel also didn't lose any positions in Korea... someone should do this list properly!

Or someone should read it properly.



#34 sheogorath

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 14:30

Apparently it is starts performance chart derived from this one:

 

73h4py.jpg

 

There are also a few other interesting tables made by the same guy:

 

Points per lap chart. Guessing this is the average amount of points they would have earned at the end of each lap given their position they when they crossed the finish line.

 

2z5418g.jpgg

 

Positions gained by race.

 

2aiea02.jpg

 

I can't make sense of this one and what they are measuring. Laps when team mates have battled each other or have lead each other when in consecutive positions?.

 

wvyc5h.jpg

 

you can find more of them at f1matrix.it


Edited by sheogorath, 21 November 2013 - 14:40.


#35 sv401

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 14:43

I can't make sense of this one and what they are measuring. Laps when team mates have battled each other or have lead each other when in consecutive positions?.

I think it compares the lap times, rather than positions. So, a score of 35-23 means the first driver was faster on 35 laps out of 58.



#36 sv401

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 14:58


There are some very curious numbers, like Sutil losing 16 places at Bahrain or Felipe Massa losing 15 places in Korea  while Vettel barely moves since he is usually on pole.

 

It is still possible to lose position(s) from pole, as evidenced by Webber and to a lesser extent Hamilton. :p So, only losing a position once (starting from 2nd place) is a decent result for Vettel, but Maldonado also managed to achieve the same, which is surprising for his reputation to be involved in incidents frequently. Massa's loss of 15 positions in Korea really makes his overall stats look bad, otherwise he is one of the best starters.



#37 DampMongoose

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 14:58

I'd say the last one looks is the lap time comparison, but it only shows the comparison for the number of laps both cars were on the track.  Such as the 1-0 to Alonso at Malaysia until he crashed out, otherwise it would be 1-55 to Massa if it included every lap.

 

Edit: It's defininitely laptimes... checking the lap comparison graph at F1 Fanatic you can see it on a few examples very clearly.


Edited by DampMongoose, 21 November 2013 - 15:09.


#38 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 15:16

surprising is however that Perez has 0 1st lap crashes

I remember at least Monza where he crashed with Raikkonen.

 



#39 tmzxaar

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 16:37

Or someone should read it properly.


You're right, but still it has many errors

Edited by tmzxaar, 21 November 2013 - 16:38.


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#40 DampMongoose

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 17:08

As much as it pains me to say it, but surely the lazy ******* could have already put the 0 in for Vettel at Brazil???



#41 Santosdf

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 17:19

Top 4 speak spanish, coincidence? i don't think so



#42 Lazy

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 17:22

Someone made this and posted it on twitter. It's a table of positions gained and lost on lap 1 at each GP by each driver.

 

20543o8.jpg

 

There are some very curious numbers, like Sutil losing 16 places at Bahrain or Felipe Massa losing 15 places in Korea  while Vettel barely moves since he is usually on pole.

Interesting Latin countries at the top and Northern Europeans at the bottom. Timid lot we are :)



#43 fisssssi

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 17:28

Vettel's record is insane given how many times he starts from the front.



#44 ArkZ

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 18:39

Interesting stats, position earned clearly shows which car has better Q pace compared to race pace (Merc drivers) and vice versa (Ferrari, Lotus). Gap start Webber last that's not surprise. Alonso dominated Massa the most from every pair in the race pace times 592-276, Button-Per surprisingly close, Ham-Ros almost equal, I thought Raikkonen would won race lap comparison by bigger margin. 


Edited by ArkZ, 21 November 2013 - 18:40.


#45 AlexanderF1

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:23

looking at posistions gain on l1 is di resta gaining 7 at monaco correct if it is what a start.   also remebered silverstone where massa gained 6 places. i definatly think that was start of the year (still cant believe we didnt see an onboard replay)