93 replies to this topic

[emmanuelrubi]

I have been reading like a lot of tweets and the not so strong source of @monsieur_f1 that PDVSA will withdraw from F1 can someone confirm if this is true or have more info, thanks !

[swerved]

Dunno about PDVSA but LG are pulling out.

[Atreiu]

Could they feel like going to Indy?

[Murl]

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/136705.html

 

Sounds like it.

 

"They have been supporting me for a while but maybe they don't want to continue. They left Williams from [after] this race, and I don't know exactly if they want to continue … maybe not, maybe yes, we will see. I don't have the 100% that they want to continue, if they want to go for another team or not. That will be down to them.

 

Don't fancy his chances without them backing him.

Chavez has been in the ground for a while now. Probably safe to dismantle some of his pet follies, this motorsport fetish would be a logical place to start.

Edited by Murl, 21 November 2013 - 21:06.

[emmanuelrubi]

omg, i cant believe it i thought that they were going to be with Lotus, now what Perez?

[maverick69]

Laters Pastor   

 

No doubt you'll hit the door on your way out........

[charly0418]

What a crazy month

[JRizzle86]

Laters Pastor   

 

No doubt you'll hit the door on your way out........

Yeah but he will blame it on the team as they physically push him out the door.

[Romulan]

"Asked if he was 100% sure if he'd be in Formula One even if PDVSA pulls out, Maldonado replied: "Yeah, for sure.""

 

Maldonado seems convinced he is staying.

Edited by Romulan, 22 November 2013 - 00:10.

[billm99uk]

The Venezuela economy is up the spout as the government has basically treated the industry as a short term cash cow to buy off its electorate rather than as a long term investment, so it's all going to go pear-shaped at some point. As to whether that point is now, that's a matter of opinion.

[Spillage]

If true, could this be the silver lining for Hulkenberg? 

[jrg19]

If this means Pastor has lost his cash, Perez will be top of Lotus' list. (if he has backing)

[Kobasmashi]

This has been one of the sillier silly seasons 

[charly0418]

If true, could this be the silver lining for Hulkenberg? 

 

Judging from what Hulk said today, he's off to Force India. Lotus sill need money

[Coral]

Hopefully this will mean Maldonado! Fingers crossed!

[sheogorath]

PDVSA isn't leaving, so the Pasta haters can go back to their holes

 

PDVSA president wants Maldonado at Lotus
Luke Smith Nov 16, 2013, 12:00 PM EST

President of Venezuelan oil giant PDVSA Rafael Ramirez has said that he is working to ensure that Pastor Maldonado races for Lotus in 2014.

http://motorsportsta...onado-at-lotus/

MonsieurF1 is a jackass with no credibility whatsoever.

Edited by sheogorath, 21 November 2013 - 22:23.

[LeonardoV]

MonsieurF1 is full of bullshit

[Collective]

Not sure who this guy is... I think he is just threading on Pérez saying "95% sure" he will be in F1 and Maldonado saying he isn't "100% sure PDVSA will continue in F1" to form a story where Pérez is getting the Lotus drive and Maldonado is out of F1 and start tweet it as an "Exclusive."

 

When it comes to silly seasons, the Internet is generally full of it. I will wait for AMuS, Autosport, BBC, et al.

Edited by Collective, 21 November 2013 - 22:34.

[Juan Kerr]

Hopefully this will mean Maldonado! Fingers crossed!

Are you serious? Why would anyone want Maldonado in F1?? He's a liability, terribly clumsy and brings nothing to the sport. Ahhh well there is plenty of stupid people in the world as we all know.

[peroa]

They have a dictator now so it probably depends on whether he likes F1 or not.

[charly0418]

They have a dictator now so it probably depends on whether he likes F1 or not.

 

lmao, that sounds really sad

[Murl]

They have a dictator now so it probably depends on whether he likes F1 or not.

I think he won an election recently.

 

His governance style seems to be from the same playbook as Chavez, if that means anything.

Would be interesting to know just what family connections Maldanado has, or if he is just a flag waver for the populists?

 

They will surely lose the next election, so we have a sunset on Maldanado and the rest of the Venezuelans.

[sheogorath]

It's quite tiresome when people drag politics into this, specially when it's dragged in by those who have no idea about what they are talking like peroa about or those who fancy themselves experts because they read a few op-eds in CCN, BBC, The Guardian or whatever.

[pingu666]

is there a business case for them in f1?

[Murl]

It's quite tiresome when people drag politics into this, specially when it's dragged in by those who have no idea about what they are talking like peroa about or those who fancy themselves experts because they read a few op-eds in CCN, BBC, The Guardian or whatever.

Drag politics into a discussion about a state-sponsored driver's funding?

 

This is a totally political subject. Maldonado is a figurehead of this regime, the oil company is having its own little scandal around finances associated with its racing program. Drive gets fired from his current team, could it be that there is some political blowback?

 

I'm not up on which way the political winds blow in Venezuela right now. Care to add something?

[Murl]

is there a business case for them in f1?

Propaganda, bread and circuses.

[charly0418]

http://joesaward.wor...-without-money/

[sheogorath]

Drag politics into a discussion about a state-sponsored driver's funding?
 
This is a totally political subject. Maldonado is a figurehead of this regime, the oil company is having its own little scandal around finances associated with its racing program. Drive gets fired from his current team, could it be that there is some political blowback?
 
I'm not up on which way the political winds blow in Venezuela right now. Care to add something?

PDVSA racing program had nothing to do with that scandal, which was related to the Sports Ministry getting duped multiple times. The fact that people can't even get that right is why I find it pointless to have any kind of discussion on the matter.

The only reason Maldonado is considered a "figurehead" it's because he has always been outspoken about his political leanings and the most succesful one, but he isn't the only driver sponsored by PDVSA/CITGO, nor is he the first nor the last.

And Maldo was the one who wanted to leave, simple as that.

Like I said, why bother argue when people can't even get the basics right?.

[Kelateboy]

If this means Pastor has lost his cash, Perez will be top of Lotus' list. (if he has backing)

 

Perez has to be the front runner now for the Lotus' seat, but would Telmex support 2 F1 drivers?

[charly0418]

Perez has to be the front runner now for the Lotus' seat, but would Telmex support 2 F1 drivers?

 

Slim already had some sponsorship in McLaren with Claro Video, so its possible that they do it.

[goingthedistance]

That is an interesting article by Saward. If some of what he's saying is right we may have Pastor making a show of having little money behind him as it is in his and PDVSA's interest to make it look that way (Pastor for reputation and ego, PDVSA for domestic political reasons). So we may have PDVSA branding on the Williams as part of the settlement and Pastor at Lotus with no visible branding (but money changing hands behind the scenes).

Or it could be more straight forward and Pastor is genuinely out of PDVSA money and therefore a drive.

[Kelateboy]

Slim already had some sponsorship in McLaren with Claro Video, so its possible that they do it.

 

According to German News Agency DPA, Claro Video have announced that they will be sponsoring McLaren for 2014 right after the Spanish GP.

 

So, I am not sure whether the sponsorship deal between Claro Video and McLaren have been finalized for 2014 or they still have the room to follow Perez to Lotus. But their lawyers should be smart enough to include some conditions attached to their 2014's sponsorship with McLaren.

[Wander]

I certainly wouldn't miss his presence for one second, but let's wait and see.

[Nonesuch]

They have a dictator now so it probably depends on whether he likes F1 or not.

 

  Of course they do.

 

Anyway, with regards to PDVSA: just a few days ago its president (or dictator, if you prefer) Rafael Ramirez was 'working to ensure that Pastor Maldonado races for Lotus in 2014'. If PDVSA is indeed leaving F1, maybe the deal with Lotus didn't work out?

[charly0418]

According to German News Agency DPA, Claro Video have announced that they will be sponsoring McLaren for 2014 right after the Spanish GP.

 

So, I am not sure whether the sponsorship deal between Claro Video and McLaren have been finalized for 2014 or they still have the room to follow Perez to Lotus. But their lawyers should be smart enough to include some conditions attached to their 2014's sponsorship with McLaren.

 

those sponsorship deals are tied to their driver being in the team.... you really think they're going to sponsor McLaren without their driver there...

[Anderis]

those sponsorship deals are tied to their driver being in the team.... you really think they're going to sponsor McLaren without their driver there...

Maybe yes. Santander still sponsors McLaren 6 years after Alonso left the team.

[William Hunt]

They have a dictator now so it probably depends on whether he likes F1 or not.

 

Venezuela is a democracy, their president was ELECTED democraticaly.

 

It amazes me every time I see people write complete bullshit stuff about Venezuela when they obviously have never ever been to Venezuela and know absolutely nothing about this country. If you ever had been there and talked to people then you would very soon found out that reality is a a lot different than what you actually hear. In fact you would be so surprised to find out that things are often exactly the oposite of what you previously thought.

 

Besides: all dictatorships / junta's that we have seen in Latin America have all without exception been installed there by the US. Most famous example is Pinochet in Chili.

Edited by William Hunt, 22 November 2013 - 00:10.

[charly0418]

Maybe yes. Santander still sponsors McLaren 6 years after Alonso left the team.

 

I'm pretty sure Slim hates McLaren right now

[sheogorath]

I'm pretty sure Slim hates McLaren right now

You don't become the world's richest man by hating potential business partners, to be honest.

[V3TT3L]

Wasn't El Presidente of Venezuela the one who got absolute powers this week to fight the economic depression ?

[Donka]

Maybe yes. Santander still sponsors McLaren 6 years after Alonso left the team.

That's because they reported record growth of their brand in the UK after that deal.  So it did and continues to make sense from a business standpoint.

[noikeee]

I know a lot of people from Venezuela and they will all tell you the president (and the previous one) is completely bonkers and the elections rigged as hell and the population severely conditioned to vote for him. And yes they just passed a new law this week that gives him the power to basically bypass the parliament and dictate laws at his will - remains to be seen exactly what will he do with that, but doesn't sound particularly goodwilling.

 

First and last off-topic from myself here as this is straying outside of the political side relevant to motorsport here. I'm unsure this new president has the same level of interest in motorsport that Chávez did, and whether he'll bother to mess with Maldonado's deals personally or not.

[ANF]

Venezuela is a democracy, their president was ELECTED democraticaly.

 

It amazes me every time I see people write complete bullshit stuff about Venezuela when they obviously have never ever been to Venezuela and know absolutely nothing about this country. If you ever had been there and talked to people then you would very soon found out that reality is a a lot different than what you actually hear. In fact you would be so surprised to find out that things are often exactly the oposite of what you previously thought.

 

Besides: all dictatorships / junta's that we have seen in Latin America have all without exception been installed there by the US. Most famous example is Pinochet in Chili.

Then they should watch this excellent documentary: http://www.pbs.org/w...ugochavez/view/

 

And read the news: http://www.theguardi...-rule-by-decree

[sheogorath]

I know a lot of people from Venezuela and they will all tell you the president (and the previous one) is completely bonkers and the elections rigged as hell and the population severely conditioned to vote for him.

They have been saying the same crap since 2004, and they have failed to show proof of rigging each time, despite having at least an election for something or other each year. Of course, the only time there isn't any rigging is when they have won at district, state or parliamentary level. 

 

 

 

And yes they just passed a new law this week that gives him the power to basically bypass the parliament and dictate laws at his will - remains to be seen exactly what will he do with that, but doesn't sound particularly goodwilling.

 

A law aproved by parliament itself. And that law has existed in the Venezuelan Constitution and has been used before in pre-Chavez governments.

 

But unless you know Venezuelan history, I can't expect you to know that so it is a bit pointless.

[Romulan]

Propaganda, bread and circuses.

 

Your posts are  little more than hypocritical snacks.  Your Propaganda: You linked to an article and failed to include Pastor's own thoughts on the subject.

 

ESPN (Go to the last sentence in the article.)

 

I quote, again: "Asked if he was 100% sure if he'd be in Formula One even if PDVSA pulls out, Maldonado replied: "Yeah, for sure.""

Edited by Romulan, 22 November 2013 - 00:43.

[Fastcake]

Sounds like politics within Venezuela, I'd be tempted to agree with Saward on this one. Maldonado isn't getting a seat without PDVSA money, and as long as the government want drivers flying the flag abroad, they will arrange the money to arrive in Lotus' bank account.

 

A law aproved by parliament itself. And that law has existed in the Venezuelan Constitution and has been used before in pre-Chavez governments.

 

But unless you know Venezuelan history, I can't expect you to know that so it is a bit pointless.

 

A law passed by throwing out opposition MPs, it should be added. Not that laws passed supposedly legally actually have any form of legitimacy anyway, but that's going too far off-topic. 

[Murl]

Your posts are  little more than hypocritical snacks.  Your Propaganda: You linked to an article and failed to include Pastor's own thoughts on the subject.

 

ESPN (Go to the last sentence in the article.)

 

I quote, again: "Asked if he was 100% sure if he'd be in Formula One even if PDVSA pulls out, Maldonado replied: "Yeah, for sure.""

The point of that article is that Maldonado is not sure if PDVSA will sponsor him in 2014.

 

I don't care if he thinks he's getting a drive anyway, he thinks the world owes him a living, so of course he would think that.

If he is even saying "maybe" about PDVSA, it suggests there is a problem.

 

Perhaps they will sponsor bus racing in future? 

 

What do you think the business case is for supporting Maldonado, other than bread and circuses?

Edited by Murl, 22 November 2013 - 00:52.

[Pothead4Philosopher]

I know a lot of people from Venezuela and they will all tell you the president (and the previous one) is completely bonkers and the elections rigged as hell and the population severely conditioned to vote for him. And yes they just passed a new law this week that gives him the power to basically bypass the parliament and dictate laws at his will - remains to be seen exactly what will he do with that, but doesn't sound particularly goodwilling.

 

First and last off-topic from myself here as this is straying outside of the political side relevant to motorsport here. I'm unsure this new president has the same level of interest in motorsport that Chávez did, and whether he'll bother to mess with Maldonado's deals personally or not.

 

****, do they do (voter-district) gerrymandering there too? Well then, add a little Citizens United rules and allow a few super-packs in the mix, et voila, Venezuela will become a freaking superpower. Venezuelans then can go and call themselves a true democracy in the greatest nation ever seen on earth, right?

[Romulan]

The point of that article is that Maldonado is not sure if PDVSA will sponsor him in 2014.

 

I don't care if he thinks he's getting a drive anyway, he thinks the world owes him a living, so of course he would think that.

If he is even saying "maybe" about PDVSA, it suggests there is a problem.

 

Perhaps they will sponsor bus racing in future? 

 

What do you think the business case is for supporting Maldonado, other than bread and circuses?

 

The point I am trying to make is that excluding facts from your dialogue is misleading -- especially if you don't believe Maldonado is worthy of an F1 career.

 

With or without PDVSA money, Maldonado is convinced he has a ride.  I personally don't admire drivers that roll over.  I want them to kick and scratch and bite and fight all the way into the retirement paddock.

Edited by Romulan, 22 November 2013 - 01:48.

[jonpollak]

Are you serious? Why would anyone want Maldonado in F1?? He's a liability, terribly clumsy and brings nothing to the sport. Ahhh well there is plenty of stupid people in the world as we all know.

Coral meant Bye Bye not Hello

 

Jp