23 replies to this topic

[pinkypants]

Appreciate this is from the Daily Fail but I thought I'd share:

 

http://www.dailymail...s-Hamilton.html

 

I remember reading that Dennis did something to ***** Lewis off which made him sign for Mercedes, when he was initially going to stay at McLaren. Maybe this is it? 

Edited by pinkypants, 23 November 2013 - 17:03.

[SanDiegoGo]

The Daily Fail at it's best. Conjecture, ill-informed opinion and lazy journalism.

Edited by SanDiegoGo, 23 November 2013 - 19:12.

[Maustinsj]

The Daily Fail at it's best. Conjecture, ill-informed opinion and lazy journalism.

 

Couldn't agree more

[pacificquay]

Hardly news, anyway. Dennis wanted Hamilton to stay, so of course he would do everything he could to dissuade Mercedes.

[fabr68]

Mr. Dennis talking **** about one of his own drivers?

Alonso taking notes for his 2018 options.

[LuckyStrike1]

Ron Dennis and Alonso would deserve each other ;) 

[Gilles4Ever]

Hardly news, anyway. Dennis wanted Hamilton to stay, so of course he would do everything he could to dissuade Mercedes.

Ultimately it seems that Dennis may have actually played a hand in driving Lewis to Merc.

"Coming into the Singapore weekend team principal Martin Whitmarsh had e-mail conformation from his star driver that he was, in fact, going to stay. Whitmarsh said at the time that there was no Plan B. He wasn't expecting to need one. But in trying to ensure Hamilton remained on board, McLaren chairman Ron Dennis had made some moves behind the scenes at this time that were not appreciated by Hamilton - and which caused him to change his decision. The driver's argument was not with Whitmarsh, but he felt unable now to remain on board and by the Tuesday after Singapore he had signed his agreement with Mercedes."

 

http://www1.skysport...me-back-to-bite

 

So as much as I don't put too much weight on Daily Mail articles this one may have some base in fact,

 

There is also this article from a year ago and it also has some interesting titbits.

 

The latest developments reveal how sour relations between  Dennis and Hamilton have become. At the centre of the fall-out is a row that is so serious that senior figures at McLaren have closed ranks to keep the matter secret.

 

 

A senior figure within Formula One, who asked not to be named, said: ‘I do know what has  happened. Everyone makes mistakes and Ron made a mistake. Everything went pear-shaped and I don’t think it would be fair to say any more than that.’

 

 

It is specifically with Dennis that the bonds have broken. As has been the case with almost all previous McLaren drivers except Mika Hakkinen, Hamilton has found Dennis’s dictatorial approach too much to bear.

 

So, instead of posters blindly dismissing the story because it's from the Daily Mail why not add to the information and discuss the events in a civilised manner without attacking or bashing parties involved (or Alonso who has nothing to do with this) and you may actually learn something about the chain of events.

[ATM]

I suppose that every team's board of directors tries to block his star driver from going somewhere else, after all . I doubt that it's all chivalry and shaking hands in the back-offices. So, the news seems to have a legitimate basis. It all depends how sneaky Dennis got with the Mercedes crew. 

[Lazy]

Maybe that should be Dennis v Whitmarsh.

 

It's very interesting to me that both recent leaving drivers have heaped praise on Whitmarsh whilst hinting at darker figures in the background. There have also been numerous hints at this from other sources, anonymous or otherwise.

 

I am wondering if transition of power wasn't complete and Dennis tried to maintain some control by keeping his people in positions of power. I can imagine these people not liking Whitmarsh's approach, "we've always done it this way" type of people. Leaving an organisation pulling in opposite directions.

 

Personally I think Dennis failed to control his ego and lost perspective. I'm fairly sure that if Whitmarsh had been in charge, he would have been able to handle Alonso, they would have won WCC and WCC and we would never have heard about Spygate.

 

In conclusion, for all the criticism Whitmarsh gets on this board, the real problem is Dennis and his "yes men" that he left in place and no doubt uses his influence to prevent Whitmarsh removing them.

 

I get the impression that Whitmarsh is in the process of trying to resolve the situation and hopefully these latest revelations will weaken Dennis' position and give Whitmarsh the leverage he needs. Honda I'm sure won't be impressed.

 

It may be that this is why JB only wants a short contract whilst he sees how things pan out and is probably the reason that Fred has, apparently, turned them down (the real reason they signed Magnussen).

[P123]

Dennis by his own admission isn't the easiest person to get along with.  'F1 driver goes partying' seems like a fairly weak reason to use if trying to convince a rival not to sign your driver.  I'm sure Dennis would have an issue over that, as he did with Kimi's social life.  But most probably wouldn't, so a miscalculation on his part.

 

And as Lazy said, it does seem that there's an 'old guard' faction in the team who are perhaps more loyal to Dennis than Whitmarsh.  Perez and Hamilton have only ever had good things to say about Whitmarsh whilst hinting that all was not well with others.

Edited by P123, 24 November 2013 - 11:08.

[Maustinsj]

Ultimately it seems that Dennis may have actually played a hand in driving Lewis to Merc.

http://www1.skysport...me-back-to-bite

 

So as much as I don't put too much weight on Daily Mail articles this one may have some base in fact,

 

There is also this article from a year ago and it also has some interesting titbits.

 

 

 

So, instead of posters blindly dismissing the story because it's from the Daily Mail why not add to the information and discuss the events in a civilised manner without attacking or bashing parties involved (or Alonso who has nothing to do with this) and you may actually learn something about the chain of events.

 

Because I have personal experience of the sensationalist, half-truth, innuendo-laced, outright falsehood-type of reporting that the Daily Mail loves to give its readers from a story they ran - having all the information, decided to go with an angle that got a front-page splash which ignored all the facts that contradicted their opinion.

 

So excuse me if I don't take their "facts" with a truckload of salt.

 

Not an attack on you personally, btw, just an explanation of how I feel about them. I appreciate not all reporters are like that, but it does tell you something about the integrity of the editor(s) and the other "journalists".

[DaddyCool]

It's interesting that the very person who practically made McLaren as to what it is today seems to be the main reason that all the star drivers are jumping ship from the team.

[SophieB]

Maybe that should be Dennis v Whitmarsh.
 
It's very interesting to me that both recent leaving drivers have heaped praise on Whitmarsh whilst hinting at darker figures in the background. There have also been numerous hints at this from other sources, anonymous or otherwise.

 
I too had noticed Lewis seeming very, very keen to insist to the press that he had only positive things to say about Martin and that he was in no way a factor for his leaving, as if there might be such blame elsewhere. I think there is quite a lot to suggest that at the very least Whitmarsh and Dennis were/are at odds over the reasons for Hamilton leaving, even in the versions for the split presented to the press.
 
Ron Dennis, Nov 2012:

Obviously the media thinks there's some issue between Lewis and I - there's absolutely no issue between us. Sometimes the circumstances in a relationship don't balance, don't match. We're a team that requires a lot out of a driver and if some other team is able to make a more attractive proposition in any shape or form then it's understandable that your driver's going to move. [...]
It's important that everybody in the team is there for the right reasons, is focused, is determined to win and determined to make all sacrifices that are necessary to win.

(Source: http://www1.skysport.../12479/8259451)
 
Gets less circumspect a couple of months later, January 2012:

'I think it's wrong to portray that Lewis left this team,' said Dennis in an interview with CBI Magazine.
'I am a realist. Did we have the ability to create a situation where we could have stayed together? Categorically, yes. Would that have been the right thing to do? We didn't think so.'

 (Source: http://www.dailymail...on-Dennis.html)
 
And Autosport 2013:

Last year I didn't seriously seek to prevent his efforts to explore new pastures with the Mercedes AMG F1 team...

 
Ron Dennis has been pretty consistent in his presentation - McLaren took the opportunity to let Lewis Hamilton leave because they didn't want to keep him anyway.

Now, let's look at what his team principal had to say. In September 2012...

“I know we made [Hamilton] a very, very big financial offer, bigger than I believe any Formula One driver is enjoying today,” he said. “We went a long way to make a good offer to Lewis but ultimately it takes two to get to a signature. We clearly didn’t agree terms and we’ve moved in a different direction.”

(source: http://www.telegraph...-Mercedes.html)
 
November 2012:

“The offer that we made was higher I believe than any driver in Formula 1 is currently receiving or will receive next year, ” he said.
He added: “I think Lewis is a top-flight driver. We didn’t underestimate his attractiveness to others in Formula 1. We knew Lewis would be in demand, that’s why we made him an offer.
“I think it was a good offer but there clearly we had to look at the alternatives because we recognised that there was a serious threat.”
“We put a lot of effort into trying to keep Lewis. He’s clearly a great asset to any race team. So we made a big effort. I think ultimately Lewis had to make a decision, he made one, and we must now look forward.”

(source: http://www.jamesalle...nd-flex-wings/)
 
And, same month:

"We'd have him back, yes," Whitmarsh told Rachel Brookes. "So let's hope it's just a gap year."

(source: http://www1.skysport...ust-a-gap-year)
 
Martin's position has also been consistent. McLaren tried its very to keep him but ultimately they couldn't afford him. Then you have Lewis and Mercedes denying that money was the reason for the move anyway, just to muddy the waters a little more, but that's a little beside the point. The point is not whether which version is the correct one, the point is when you have the Chairman and Team Principal apparently unable to agree on a story to stick to over it, I wonder about deep disagreements at the top over the direction of the team. Even more so when things like this are written, in the context of McLaren denying an AMuS story over him being demoted to non-executive chairman as a result of McLaren Automotive losing money.
 

There are also claims Dennis has tried to oust Martin Whitmarsh as principal of the F1 team and regain that position himself.
Dennis insisted to BBC Sport that was all "categorically untrue"

(source: http://www.bbc.co.uk...a-one/22307813) )
 
The odd thing about that one is I keep my ear pretty close to the ground on McLaren stuff, being a fan of the team and I'd never seen this rumour referred to in print before so in denying the story, they actually brought it to a lot of people's attention. So no, I think the Daily Mail is pretty odious but I'm not going to dismiss their story out of hand. It's pretty sad - as I said in the 'Whitmarsh Out?' thread a while back, Ron Dennis is a hero to me, but I do sometimes wonder if he's turned into more of a problem for the team in recent years rather than the astonishing asset that took McLaren to their former dizzying heights.

[ATM]

Indeed, it might be that Dennis is past his prime...but this situation  produces me a strange mind association  with "The Godfather" and how Michael Corleone was assessing  his friends and foes values...these things should be carried out behind closed doors, without any hint of the outcome to the fans. 

[Lazy]

You think "The Godfather" is a good guide to how to live your life/ run a business?

[Jimisgod]

It's interesting that the very person who practically made McLaren as to what it is today seems to be the main reason that all the star drivers are jumping ship from the team.

Times change.

[sheepgobba]

Nothing new by Dennis.  Making the best drivers leave the team. 

[Lazy]

It's interesting that the very person who practically made McLaren as to what it is today seems to be the main reason that all the star drivers are jumping ship from the team.

People who build things are often poor at maintaining them.

[sennafan24]

According to Lewis, him and Dennis still talk from time to time. He said this earlier in the year.

 

Autosport also did this article a few months back about how Dennis did not exactly mind Lewis leaving -  http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109607

 

For now in hindsight, Lewis made the right move. Whitmarsh comes across as a decent bloke, but McLaren have been a shambles the past 2 years. That said, I would still rather deal with Whitmarsh than Sleazy Ron.

 

It would not shock me if Lewis did leave partially due to Dennis, I have said before I would love a tell all book about Lewis's McLaren days. 

[AlexS]

 

People who build things are often poor at maintaining them.

Yes, and people change along, what they achieved and how they achieved changes them.

[SophieB]

Just as a small bit of data to all this, on the BBC F1 forum, Eddie Jordan told Martin Whitmarsh that he 'knows' that Martin Whitmarsh wanted to keep Perez, and that the decision to let him go was therefore taken out of his hands.

Interesting if true.

[BRG]

Nothing new by Dennis.  Making the best drivers leave the team. 

A trait he perhaps learned from Enzo Ferrari.  The only racing personality with whom he can reasonably be compared.  Like Enzo, I suspect Ron sees McLaren as more important than the drivers who come and go every few years.

[Lazy]

A trait he perhaps learned from Enzo Ferrari.  The only racing personality with whom he can reasonably be compared.  Like Enzo, I suspect Ron sees McLaren as more important than the drivers who come and go every few years.

Yeah but losing the best drivers isn't good for McLaren, I suspect that Ron sees his ego as more important than the drivers or the team tbh, even if he convinces himself otherwise.

[SophieB]

For the curious, I looked up the F1 forum for Eddie's exact words, and to better present Martin Whitmarsh's response to give the other side of things more fairly:

 

MW: ...like I'm trying to ignore Eddie at the moment!

EJ: It won't work! He knows I'm going to ask him an absolute cracker!

MW... yes?

EJ: The cracker is, this time: ... Perez had a really good, strong race...

MW: He did.

EJ: ... it's his last race with you and it's known - not by everybody - but it's known that you've wanted him to stay. Er, or that it was your choice for him to stay... Why didn't he stay?

MW: *pause* Nooo, Eddie, it was my choice. At the end of the day I'm team principal, *I* decided that we had to change. I think Sergio's done a great job, we love him in the team, but I think now, you know, Kevin existed, we've worked with Kevin for a couple of years and I think he's exciting, so we made that call.

 

So there we go.