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The 22 drivers who should make up the 2014 field on merit


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#1 JeordieX

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 23:24

With the recent silly season, I thought this would be an interesting topic. Only drivers who are available allowed, no drivers who are retired or injured.

 

Mine:

Sebastian Vettel

Fernando Alonso

Lewis Hamilton

Kimi Raikkonen

Jenson Button

Nico Rosberg

Romain Grosjean

Felipe Massa

Nico Hulkneberg

Daniel Ricciardo

Paul di Resta

Sergio Perez

Pastor Maldonado

Valtteri Bottas

Jules Bianchi

Robin Frijns

Kevin Magnusssen

Daniil Kvyat

Kamui Kobayashi

Heikki Kovalainen

Adrian Sutil

Vitaly Petrov



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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 23:26

Really? You don't think some of the top Indycar guys would be at least as good as Petrov?



#3 Kobasmashi

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 23:37

I think OP meant the 22 guys in the European single seaters-F1 ladder that deserve a seat. The top Indy guys are successful in their own series and aren't searching for a new drive because they're staring at unemployment. 

 

Can I put Timo Glock's name forward?



#4 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 23:39

Glock isn't in the European single seaters ladder either  :p



#5 Kobasmashi

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 23:56

Awkward :stoned:  I mean, he was and dropped out even though he's proven to be better than the likes of Captain Average Di Resta IMO over a number of seasons in F1.


Edited by Kobasmashi, 23 November 2013 - 23:56.


#6 JimboJones

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 00:16

Good topic, I cant stand the pay driver situation at the moment, here's what I'd do,

Get rid of
Chilton
Gutierrez
Pic
Van der garde
Perez
Di resta
Webber
vergne

bring in
Magnussen
da costa
Senna
Glock
Valsechi
Bird
Frijns
Schumacher

#7 goingthedistance

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 00:17

Sebastian Vettel
Fernando Alonso
Lewis Hamilton
Kimi Raikkonen
Jenson Button
Nico Rosberg
Romain Grosjean
Felipe Massa
Nico Hulkenburg
Daniel Ricciardo
Sergio Perez
Jean Eric Vergne
Valtteri Bottas
Jules Bianchi
Robin Frijns
Kevin Magnussen
Kamui Kobayashi
Jaime Alguersuari
Stoffel Vandoorne
Sam Bird
Robert Wickens
Sebastien Buemi

Edited by goingthedistance, 24 November 2013 - 00:17.


#8 MattPete

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 00:42

Mine:

Kamui Kobayashi

Sebastian Vettel

Fernando Alonso

Lewis Hamilton

Kimi Raikkonen

Jenson Button

Nico Rosberg

Romain Grosjean

Felipe Massa

Nico Hulkenberg

Daniel Ricciardo

Paul di Resta

Sergio Perez

Pastor Maldonado

Valtteri Bottas

Simon Pagenaud

Helio Castroneves

Scott Dixon

Adrian Sutil

Will Power

Ryan Hunter-Reay

Mark Weber


Edited by MattPete, 24 November 2013 - 00:48.


#9 LewDaMan

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 00:52

Cba to do all 22...but Kova and Glock deserve to have permanent drives in F1 still. Both are solid rather than spectacular but in an era of Maldonado, Perez and Grosjean...well, reliable, fair and consistent drivers such as Kova and Glock are worth their weight in gold.

 

I also hope the rumours about Di Resta's imminent departure from F1 prove to be true as he's not done a lot in three years to suggest he is anything other than average. And Jaime Alg's removal from Torro Rosso still seems harsh to me.



#10 charly0418

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 00:55

Good topic, I cant stand the pay driver situation at the moment, here's what I'd do,

Get rid of
Chilton
Gutierrez
Pic
Van der garde
Perez
Di resta
Webber
vergne

bring in
Magnussen
da costa
Senna
Glock
Valsechi
Bird
Frijns
Schumacher

 

You know, Valssechi and Bird were beaten by Van der Garde, Perez, Pic and Maldonado in GP2.

 

I love peoples memory

 

Edit: also Senna is a pay driver, which apparently you hate


Edited by charly0418, 24 November 2013 - 01:14.


#11 Atreiu

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:06

26 is the ideal grid size, IMO.



#12 Spillage

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:06

I'd rather have unproven promise in the field than solid, unspectacular drivers. For that reason I'd far rather have Perez, Pic and Maldonado on the grid than Massa, Kovalainen and Sutil.



#13 Amin

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:24

Jenson Button 

Nick Heidfeld 

Fernando Alonso 

Kimi Raikkonen 

Felipe Massa

Nico Rosberg 

Lewis Hamilton 

Heikki Kovalainen

Sebastian Vettel 

Romain Grosjean 

Kamui Kobayashi 

Jaime Alguersuari 

Sebastien Buemi 

Nico Hulkenberg 

Pastor Maldonado 

Paul Di Resta 

Sergio Perez 

Daniel Ricciardo 

Valtteri Bottas 

Jules Bianchi 

Kevin Magnussen 

Robin Frijns 



#14 wepmob2000

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:43

Wasn't a certain Niki Lauda once an F1 pay driver, in the truest sense of the term? Chilton's been solid enough this year to warrant remaining in F1 IMHO.



#15 AJFIN

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:47

Sebastian Vettel

Lewis Hamilton

Nico Rosberg

Kimi Raikkonen

Fernando Alonso

Michael Schumacher

Romain Grosjean

Nico Hulkenberg

Kevin Magnussen

Robin Frijns

Valtteri Bottas

Daniil Kvyat

Stoffel Vandoorne

 

+ some other drivers to fill the grid



#16 packapoo

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:01

Really? You don't think some of the top Indycar guys would be at least as good as Petrov?
[/


In a word, NO.
Who'd you have in mind?



#17 pingu666

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:35

I'd chuck in kyle busch and kyle larson, and robby gordon.

a waste of their talents, but f1 media would cream themselves over a angry busch, larson is great to watch, and rg because he's rg :-P

and all 3 would do a ton of non f1 races :-)



#18 Juggles

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:40

I'd rather have unproven promise in the field than solid, unspectacular drivers. For that reason I'd far rather have Perez, Pic and Maldonado on the grid than Massa, Kovalainen and Sutil.

 

I think if you're calling Sutil a "solid, unspectacular driver" it's bizarre to have either Perez or Maldonado on the list of "unproven promise." I don't think Sutil has ever had a car as good as either the 2012 Williams or 2012 Sauber. Sutil's race in Monaco 08 was just as impressive as Maldonado's Barcelona 12 or Perez's Monza 12.

 

I'll spend a little extra time on Maldonado given he's the only driver on the grid that I actively dislike. He spent four years in GP2 and aside from an admittedly impressive win in Spain and a few good qualifying sessions (I remember Singapore 12 particularly) in a seriously underrated Williams he has done nothing eye-catching in F1 by the age of 28. He is a mediocre pay-driver with a terrible, strutting attitude and a truly dangerous streak. When I think of "unproven promise" I think of drivers like Magnussen, Kvyat and Vandoorne. Not this clown.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=732IS44ZKso



#19 ClubmanGT

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:45

I'd bring in Bird, Evans and Sainz Jnr and get rid of Maldonado, Pic & Chilton. Dixon maybe for Van der Garde.



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#20 Gyan

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:02

Fernando Alonso

Sebastian Vettel

Lewis Hamilton

Kimi Raikkonen

Jenson Button

Nico Rosberg

Nico Hulkenberg

Daniel Ricciardo

Romain Grosjean

Felipe Massa

Pastor Maldonado

Sergio Perez

Paul di Resta

Valtteri Bottas

Jules Bianchi

Heikki Kovalainen

Jean Eric Vergne

Kevin Magnussen

Daniil Kvyat

Fabio Leimer

Felipe Nasr

Robin Frijns


Edited by Gyan, 24 November 2013 - 05:03.


#21 SpaMaster

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 06:55

There is no such thing as merit. When the costs of the sport is so huge, money talks. If the budget of the sport is reduced to $140-180 million per year for a team, then we would have more merit-drivers. Otherwise, it is quite natural to expect to have pay-drivers. I don't know how we can expect this to be different.



#22 ATM

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 07:43

I don't think a Marussia has an 140 mill budget even for 2013, with a rather cheap (by comparison) Cossworth engine. Considering the higher price of the engines next year, I strongly doubt that even an 140 mill guaranteed budget would give them the luxury of avoiding pay drivers. Money is never enough; when a team will have the minimal budget for driving one season at the back of the pack they will just push the budget's limit even more, to achieve better technology results and get higher in the ranks - so they would still appeal to pay drivers. to The concept of paying your seat is pretty much as old as F1, so we're stuck to it.

 

Like SpaMaster said, "merit" in F1 can take many aspects. Supposing Williams would have folded without PDVSA's large amount of money? In this case, Maldonado can be considered as more than meritorious, because he actively helped secure the team's immediate future, more than a lot of other team's personnel -   and he even scored some impressive results with the team last year. Same thing goes for the Lotus today. If Maldo's money would keep the team from going bankrupt and turning belly up, does not he "deserve" the seat more than a driver who would ask for a salary and would bring no money instead?

 

And besides, pay drivers nowadays are not that shabby. We should look at the 70-80's pay drivers  - some of them 10 years older than the field, getting the gears wrong,  crashing into the leaders or vice-versa...now, that was a worrying status. But today? is the difference between Hulkenberg and Maldonado/Perez that big? one might say that yes, a difference does exist, but only at the fine-tune level, when discussing about WDC material versus non-WDC material. But really, pay drivers are not disasters on wheels anymore, and can score decent results given the right machinery. 


Edited by ATM, 24 November 2013 - 11:31.


#23 JimboJones

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 11:19

You know, Valssechi and Bird were beaten by Van der Garde, Perez, Pic and Maldonado in GP2.
 
I love peoples memory
 
Edit: also Senna is a pay driver, which apparently you hate


Ok, right now imo, valsechi and bird are better than Perez, pic and van der garde.
I never said to replace Maldonado.
And senna WAS a pay driver, that doesn't mean he shouldnt be given a proper chance on merit.

So nothing wrong with my memory, rather something wrong with u.

#24 JHSingo

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:12


Edit: also Senna is a pay driver, which apparently you hate

 

You forget that the "Senna" name allows people to indulge in some misty eyed romanticism. Just being called Senna automatically means he is one of the best out there, right?  ;)



#25 Spillage

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:28

I think if you're calling Sutil a "solid, unspectacular driver" it's bizarre to have either Perez or Maldonado on the list of "unproven promise." I don't think Sutil has ever had a car as good as either the 2012 Williams or 2012 Sauber. Sutil's race in Monaco 08 was just as impressive as Maldonado's Barcelona 12 or Perez's Monza 12.

 

I'll spend a little extra time on Maldonado given he's the only driver on the grid that I actively dislike. He spent four years in GP2 and aside from an admittedly impressive win in Spain and a few good qualifying sessions (I remember Singapore 12 particularly) in a seriously underrated Williams he has done nothing eye-catching in F1 by the age of 28. He is a mediocre pay-driver with a terrible, strutting attitude and a truly dangerous streak. When I think of "unproven promise" I think of drivers like Magnussen, Kvyat and Vandoorne. Not this clown.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=732IS44ZKso

These are good points because there is no doubt that Maldonado's attitude is a problem and his 2013 has been a disappointment, but I feel he did enough in 2012 to be considered a hot prospect as he continues to mature. I also agree about Sutil - not just his Monaco performance, but his debut season for Spyker were extremely impressive. However, those were a long time ago and I don't think he's ever going to be a WDC, so why have him around? I'd rather see a team make a gamble on a young driver that doesn't pay off than conservatively go for drivers they know are competent but not great.



#26 Anderis

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 13:31

his 2013 has been a disappointment, but I feel he did enough in 2012 to be considered a hot prospect as he continues to mature.

I think his 2013 has been better performance-wise than 2012. 2013 Maldonado would beat 2012 Maldonado over a season in good car IMO.



#27 sopa

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 13:34

So looking at the lists, the "merit" of the F1 grid is not as bad as claimed. People's lists still have 3/4 of the existing names included, including drivers like Massa, who many want to see gone from F1 and retired. The main difference is that a few paydrivers have been replaced with some up-and-coming drivers, who still may yet get to F1, like Vandoorne. Just a year later than people wish in this thread. And also some other guys like Alguersuari, Kovalainen, Glock are included, who have already dropped out of F1. And people argue here as well whether those "solid but unspectacular" drivers deserve another chance at all.

 

So from a superficial view not much difference despite the complaints that talent doesn't get a chance in F1 due to financial issues. I think we would have to look deeper than that... and look, who we have lost throughout years, who we have lost further down the ladder of who we haven't even heard about, etc. Because among guys, who we know and are fresh in our minds, either make it to F1 or at least thereabouts if they are truly good. And if they have been dropped, people claim they had their chance anyway and weren't that good - like is about to happen to di Resta or Sutil, who could easily be in F1 on merit.


Edited by sopa, 24 November 2013 - 13:35.


#28 Farhannn15

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 13:44

Sebastian Vettel
Lewis Hamilton
Nico Rosberg
Kimi Raikkonen
Fernando Alonso
Jenson Button
Sergio Perez
Nico Hulkenburg
Kevin Magnussen
Robin Frijns
Jules Bianchi
Kamui Kobayashi
Stoffel Vandoorne
Antonio Felix Da Costa
Daniel Ricciardo
Jean Eric Vergne
Daniil Kvyat
Paul Di Resta
Heikki Kovalainen
Valtteri Bottas
Romain Grosjean
Robert Wickens
James Calado
Adrian Sutil