129 replies to this topic

[GMACKIE]

Maybe it's only the ones that speak Victorian that are difficult to understand, Lee ?

[275 GTB-4]

It used to be a lot cheaper back in the Princess of Tasmania days - 60's, 70's. A lot of the local drivers would go to Calder (especially), Sandown and Winton meetings. Some hard lobbying re Vic Ports (if they are the problem) should be high on the agenda.

not to mention Empress of Australia and The Australian Trader MEL to Dev, and ex-Syd-a-knee...72-76. I worked on her electronics when she became the "Love Boat" for the RAN

[ed holly]

Guys,

 

If you can make it something not to be missed .... One of the 5 crew working with Jim Smith at Indy was Alan Moffat - seen the photo myself ...

 

Jim was mostly a ship engineer, but took a year off and ended up at Lotus and Chapman was so impressed he made him the crew chief for the Indy assault which had the best result possible.

 

 

 

Coming Up: July 15 HSRCA Social Night

When: 15th of July, 2015, from 8PM

Where: Denistone Sports Club, 59 Chatham Road, West Ryde

Our next social night is coming up on July the 15th, and will feature talks by Jim Clark's 1965 Indy 500-winning crew chief, Jim Smith, along with Dave Williamson who was at the 2015 event.

Australian Jim Smith was crew chief on the Lotus 38 that day in 1965, and will be in attendance to tell of his time with Lotus and racing in USA in the mid 1960s.

Denistone Sports Club, 59 Chatham Road, West Ryde, starting time is 8pm but arrive early and catch up with friends for a bite and a drink.

[Lee Nicolle]

I was at all the big Baskerville meets back in the day and I would concur that the 1975 event was the biggest. Unfortunately (much to my regret!) I chucked all my slides of those meetings some years ago. Can still remember Bondy crossing the finish line in the touring car event with another Torana (Gricey?) locked into the rear bumper of the SLR. The 'different' Celica would I imagine have been the Ling-Gowans Chev powered Celica sports sedan driven by Bruce Gowans. To say the later Elliott-Edmondson Alfetta-Chev was of 'no consequence' is not correct. That car was an outright contender for the Sports Sedan Championship until Tony's accident at Surfers in 1979.

I was being facetious. The two Alfas were famous and very good  ]K&A] cars. I think Chris Clearihan still owns that car. The first one was scrap after Tonys fiery crash. Though a good percentage of the mechanicals ofcourse survived.

And yes I had the Ling Gowans Celica confused.

[Lee Nicolle]

Guys,

 

If you can make it something not to be missed .... One of the 5 crew working with Jim Smith at Indy was Alan Moffat - seen the photo myself ...

 

Jim was mostly a ship engineer, but took a year off and ended up at Lotus and Chapman was so impressed he made him the crew chief for the Indy assault which had the best result possible.

 

 

 

Coming Up: July 15 HSRCA Social Night

When: 15th of July, 2015, from 8PM

Where: Denistone Sports Club, 59 Chatham Road, West Ryde

Our next social night is coming up on July the 15th, and will feature talks by Jim Clark's 1965 Indy 500-winning crew chief, Jim Smith, along with Dave Williamson who was at the 2015 event.

Australian Jim Smith was crew chief on the Lotus 38 that day in 1965, and will be in attendance to tell of his time with Lotus and racing in USA in the mid 1960s.

Denistone Sports Club, 59 Chatham Road, West Ryde, starting time is 8pm but arrive early and catch up with friends for a bite and a drink.

Not the Jim Smith who had the Camel Rover and later the Jane Camaro.

[Wirra]

Just a reminder the Summer Historic meeting is coming up at Eastern Creek on 28-29th Nov.

 

 

https://www.meecamsa...78&SortBy=Class

Edited by Wirra, 14 November 2015 - 08:46.

[timbo]

I'll be there, unfortunately outside the fence, but will post a photo or few.

[mph911]

Looking forward to seeing the George Nakas M8F McLaren in Sydney.

Nice to see over 50 Group S cars for the enduro too. 

[MKI220]

Anyone else head out to Retro Fest at Sydney Motorsport Park yesterday? I went out yesterday (Saturday) and arrived during the delay for a serious accident. Unsure of the details if anyone can fill them in but I think it may of been during the F'Ford Race.

While still a great event, numbers were clearly down. 

[timbo]

I went out to the Retro Fest (still not too sure about that name), on the Saturday, and yes, the big delay was for the accident at turn 1, first lap of the F-Ford race.

A typically good meeting up until, and after then, and yes, the numbers were down, although it seems the owners of the draw card cars (LeMans and Can-Am cars etc) have shipped their  cars overseas for the big events in Europe (LeMans cars) and USA (CanAm cars), and the F1 car display of previous years was just Guido Belgiorno-Nettis racing his Ferrari (nothing wrong with that, though).

Tom Tweedie was lightning quick in qualifying in dad Bob's Elfin MS7 sports car, but an engine blow-up in race 1 put an end to his weekend.  Group C & A, and Group S had good grids and good racing, but it feels a bit like the event is struggling a bit with finding its place, and identity, as an historic event. Still a great event, and worth attending, but not a memorable one.

[MKI220]

I agree on it struggling to find its identity. I would like to see more support from car clubs. The car park at turn 9 / 10 had a campervan in it while behind the grandstand you could just park up. If they contacted car clubs 12mths out, offered them discounted tickets / allocated space it would really add to the appeal. I dont think Rennsport a few weeks ago helped the entries / attendance.

It is worth going to just hear Guido in the Ferrari.

[Wirra]

I hadn't been to a race meeting in 35 years but with most family commitments then behind me I went in 2008 and had a fantastic time looking at the cars and reminiscing. The racing was poor. I went again in 2010 and saw mostly the same cars but, if I recall correctly, bigger fields. By that time I was following TNF and had a heightened recollection of things past. The racing was poor. By 2012 it was getting a bit tiresome and 2014 was the last time I attended. On both occasions the racing was poor.

 

What would get me back, I'm not sure? 

 

I would give consideration if;

The track was shorter - cut across behind the pits.

There were large car club displays. (e.g. Shannons run the whole shebang?)

More quality cars ran, and

Cars were driven with a bit more verve by some talented drivers.

 

Historic racing in Sydney is never going to have the turnstiles ticking over and the growing cost seems to be deterring the average historic race car owner from participating.

 

I apoligise that I have no answers.

Edited by Wirra, 16 June 2016 - 10:50.

[Lee Nicolle]

I have never beento a historic meeting in NSW, but a lot here in SA and PI too. SOME of the older cars are driven sedately, the drivers too like the cars are older,, and or inexperienced. Usually the more modern stuff is driven as it should be, in fact a little too much agression at times.

PI historics reputedly brings a bigger crowd than the Stupidcars. And a better class of spectator too!

[Ray Bell]

The HRCC of Qld invite car clubs to their big annual meeting and get a good turnout...

I think it would work.

[Dick Willis]

I hadn't been to a race meeting in 35 years but with most family commitments then behind me I went in 2008 and had a fantastic time looking at the cars and reminiscing. The racing was poor. I went again in 2010 and saw mostly the same cars but, if I recall correctly, bigger fields. By that time I was following TNF and had a heightened recollection of things past. The racing was poor. By 2012 it was getting a bit tiresome and 2014 was the last time I attended. On both occasions the racing was poor.

 

What would get me back, I'm not sure? 

 

I would give consideration if;

The track was shorter - cut across behind the pits.

There were large car club displays. (e.g. Shannons run the whole shebang?)

More quality cars ran, and

Cars were driven with a bit more verve by some talented drivers.

 

Historic racing in Sydney is never going to have the turnstiles ticking over and the growing cost seems to be deterring the average historic race car owner from participating.

 

I apoligise that I have no answers.

 

 

Wirra, I think you went to the wrong race meeting, if you were seeking thrills and excitement the speedway sprint cars would probably be more to your liking. At historic meetings the cars are meant to be the stars not drivers seeking an easy pathway to Formula One. As one of the old farts referred to above I confess to only driving at speeds which feel comfortable to me without putting my aged body and elderly car in danger and if that offends those who are spectating so be it. Bear in mind most of us are simply trying to enjoy those cars we admired in our youth but were then not in a position to own, most of us are paying our own way and are not beholden to a sponsor to justify his investment in us.

So next time you do go to a historic meeting try to take an interest in the cars themselves and enjoy the technology, or lack of it, which our forefathers had to endure in order to compete.

[DanTra2858]

Like Wirra I have not been to a Race Meeting in a couple of years but what you say is correct, it is the cars that we come to see on the track but for me mainly in the pits trying to work out that elusive question " Why the hell did you do it that way ?"

But then again we are all different & a lot of the time cars come about simple by what was available, for me they are the best.

[Lee Nicolle]

The HRCC of Qld invite car clubs to their big annual meeting and get a good turnout...

I think it would work.

Happens here too at Mallala with our historic meetings. 200 plus cars with 2+ people per car adds to the crowd and atmosphere.  They usually get a  parade lap or two around the track at lunchtime. A few even come back to normal state level meetings.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 17 June 2016 - 08:27.

[Wirra]

Dick. It seems my post has rubbed you the wrong way and if that is the case I aplogise and state that was not my intention.

 

I did not identify you as 'an old fart' (in terms of driving) and never respectfully would after seeing you drive your cars. I have spoken with you on several occasios whilst conducting a close inspection of your cars and photographing them. I consider those like you the backbone of historic racing in this country. In younger days I built my own racing car and owned and maintained several Elfins and I'm in the process spending my kids' inheritance building an ICV, all with a deep and abiding passion and interest in automotive mechanics - but a loathing of electrics. I am not a Guinness man and did not go to historic meetings merely to watch the racing.

 

Although I attended race meetings from Mt Druitt until the late 70s, and know most of the historic cars as they raced in period, I did spend the majority of my time at historic meeting conducting detailed inspections of vehicles and I purloined many ideas I've incorporated into my own projects.

 

The point I was hoping to make is the fields are too thin with the same cars entering, and Eastern Creek too big. What's happened to the open-wheeler grids from only a few years ago which went back nearly to the last corner at Eastern Creek? What's happened to the likes of Spencer Martins and John Smiths (not personal references) driving fast cars with a bit of verve.

 

With over 1000 supportive posts on this forum I think my interest in historics is obvious. Following on from the posts immediately prior to my own I was merely offering thoughts to organisers as to why I (and it appears Dan and others) no longer attend. It was meant to be constructive criticism.

 

regards

Wirra

Edited by Wirra, 19 June 2016 - 22:22.

[Lee Nicolle]

Wirra, I agree with some comments but clearly you are years out of date with what happens at historic race meets.

[Dick Willis]

Wirra, why not come to some more historic meetings, perhaps Wakefield Park where all the track is visible from the mound and the shorter circuit length may provide a better spectacle and then go and mingle with the cars and drivers which is possible there because, unlike modern meetings, the pits are accessible to everyone. The double header in September would worthwhile for you. 

[SJ Lambert]

Dick, can entrants and spectators alike pitch a tent and camp at The Wakfield Park Historics?

[Ray Bell]

You can rent the houses there...

[Dick Willis]

Dick, can entrants and spectators alike pitch a tent and camp at The Wakfield Park Historics?

 

I don't think so.

[Ray Bell]

But you can rent rooms in the houses...

[mph911]

I'm probably one of the younger people on the forum, and although I don't post much, the events I look forward to the most are the Historic's. It doesn't matter to me which track they are racing, as a lover of all motor sport it's great to see cars I grew up watching and newly built cars from Group S or Group N. To say you don't want to go watch surprises me. The nostalgia we all possess from our "glory days" can possibly never be repeated, however I would much rather spend a day at the track than a day of doing 'whatever' at home. I'm not wealthy and run a car in regularity, and if not competing I'll will take thousands of photos and spread the word to the younger generation on social media and hopefully they either come out and watch or perhaps one day buy or build a car to compete. We can either be positive and support the sport we love or be negative and let the events die a slow death. Historic Racing is huge around the world, there's no reason it can't be here too.

[E1pix]

Very nice, mph911, please post more often. :-)

[ellrosso]

Yes, well said mph911. Sure, some of the racing at Historic meetings can be a bit uninspiring, but I've found at every historic meeting I've been to, there have been at least 2-3 cracking races with dicing as good as I've seen. Andrew Bergan in the ex Manton Cooper S (yes, I know - he had an enormous crash at E Creek last time out an they had to cut the roof off to get him out of the car - major shunt...) up against the Mustangs or Scotty Flemming in the Lotus Cortina have provided some amazing races in the past and well worth the cost of entry in their own right. Tom Tweedie and Ken Smith are always "on it" too in the F5000's - the top 5 F5000's in Historics are usually very good steerers actually.

Give it another go Peter - if not Wakefield as suggested, maybe Phillip Island next year - huge meeting.

[Wirra]

I see everyone is lining up to shoot the messenger.

 

Perhaps I've peaked too early (not the first time!) and visits to Laguna Seca and Goodwood and the glut of cars there have spoiled me. Whatever, I've found my interest in local historics has faded. As I've stated I view it as 'same old, same old'. I believe a key factor in my very keen interest in racing through the 50s, 60s and 70s was the evolution occurring. At every meeting someone clever, or manipulative, had pushed the boundaries further and further, By its very nature historics doesn't do that and, for me. I think that's what's missing.

 

A tipping point for me was the pathetic number of cars that turned up for the Frank Matich Tribute (Tasman Revival I think). Don't the owners of those cars have any passion for what they own or are the cars just assets they talk about at dinner parties.

 

Before anyone else pulls a trigger on this curmudgeon, have a look at who started this thread.

 

(edit) Reading through this thread perhaps it is just Sydney. I might give Winton and PI a go.

Edited by Wirra, 28 June 2016 - 04:10.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Wirra
.....I believe a key factor in my very keen interest in racing through the 50s, 60s and 70s was the evolution occurring. At every meeting someone clever, or manipulative, had pushed the boundaries further and further.....

You have a point there, Peter...

Without the highly-regulated style of racing of today, where major meetings today are made up of the same fields at every event, nothing new happens all year long!

It used to be that we could look forward to a new car coming along at every meeting, or seeing someone who's de-bugged a car and is now challenging for wins and lap records, or the first time two drivers of (often opposite styles of) top line cars are meeting each other. All of these things captured our interest.

In the same way, Historic racing today is more alive if a fresh car has been restored and put back on the track for the first time, or it's suddenly put in he hands of someone who can do it justice.

Having also seen a weekend of British Historics, I can see how you'd naturally do a comparison...

[E1pix]

Dear "Curmudgeon":

Certainly not my intention, Wirra, everything you said makes sense. With anything we've done alot of, sometimes we gotta let a little patina build before it again shines to us down the road (so to speak).