133 replies to this topic

[Seanspeed]

You guys wanna have a laugh?

 

http://www.theguardi...driver-rankings 

 

I'm puzzled by just how bad the Guardian is for F1 when it's by far my go-to place for football commentary with several excellent pundits for that sport. That is easily the worst article about F1 I've ever read.

I don't typically begrudge people their opinions on things like this, but its hard to not to say something when Max Chilton is placed above Fernando Alonso.

Edited by Seanspeed, 25 November 2013 - 15:20.

[Amin]

You guys wanna have a laugh?

http://www.theguardi...driver-rankings

I'm puzzled by just how bad the Guardian is for F1 when it's by far my go-to place for football commentary with several excellent pundits for that sport. That is easily the worst article about F1 I've ever read.

Chilton above Alonso?!

[Seanspeed]

Chilton above Alonso?!

I don't think even the worst of the Alonso bashers on here could bring themselves to agree with that.

[HammyHamiltonFan]

1. Hamilton (given the race pace of that car and that it was a new team for him, he did great imo)

2. Alonso (once more outperformed his car, great stuff from him and my respect for him continues to grow because of it)

3. Button (had a mare of a car but still pulled off a 4th place and 73 points, including outperforming Perez who people thought would take him on easily)

4. Raikkonen (consistently great this year, let down by the car just not having the pace on Saturday's and the team's lack of support for him toward the seasons end)

5. Grosjean (improved markedly after the early part of the season, it's a shame I think Lotus will struggle next year as it would be interesting to see what he could do otherwise)

6. Rosberg (the wins were a bit lucky if im honest, but all in all I think he did well, outperformed Lewis for genuine pace at times)

7. Hulkenberg (not as generous as some about him as I still can't be sure how much of it is tyre management, but his defensive driving at times was golden)

8. Di Resta (great first half of the year, still managed to pick up points toward the end as well despite the car being a dog on the 2012 tyres)

9. Ricciardo (finally showed his potential in qualifying and also by picking up more points than Vergne)

10. Bianchi (outperformed his car at times and easily the best rookie and best of the class of 2010)

[RB1]

From what i can recall of the season, my top 10 is

 

1. Vettel - No costly mistakes, finished ahead of his teammate at every race, outqualified his teammate 17-2.

 

2. Alonso - Great when the car was bad, not so good when his car was the best. Not so good in qualifying and made a costly mistake in Malaysia 

2. Hamilton - The majority of his season was very good but with a few bad races.

2. Raikkonen - Great season until he was announced for Ferrari in 2014 and they introduced the long wheel base car.

2. Rosberg - Like his teammate, his season was very good but with a few bad races. 

6. Hulkenberg - If it was just the second half of the season, he would be with the group above but, unfortunately, his car wasn't good enough in the first part of the season to show his talent.

 

7. Grosjean - Not so good start to the season but in the last few races, with the long wheel base car, he showed he was capable of racing with the best.

8. Ricciardo - Consistently outqualified his teammate and had a couple of Very good races.

9. Webber - He was never that far from his teammate in qualifying and had some good races.

10. Bottas - In a very bad car he managed to show his potential. Plus he also outqualified and outscored his more experienced race winning teammate.

[RealRacing]

Can't believe the majority of people here are putting Vettel 1st, over someone who was overdriving the 4th, 5th or 6th car every weekend from the beginning of the season, made no mistakes at all, capitalized on every opportunity to gain lots of points, stood behind his team no matter what and had the help of his teammate from day one. People are strange.

Haha, OK, I'll agree that Vettel was the best this season but only if people are willing to concede that Ferrari was no better than 7th...

[Boxerevo]

From what i can recall of the season, my top 10 is

 

1. Vettel - No costly mistakes, finished ahead of his teammate at every race, outqualified his teammate 17-2.

 

2. Alonso - Great when the car was bad, not so good when his car was the best. Not so good in qualifying and made a costly mistake in Malaysia 

2. Hamilton - The majority of his season was very good but with a few bad races.

2. Raikkonen - Great season until he was announced for Ferrari in 2014 and they introduced the long wheel base car.

2. Rosberg - Like his teammate, his season was very good but with a few bad races. 

6. Hulkenberg - If it was just the second half of the season, he would be with the group above but, unfortunately, his car wasn't good enough in the first part of the season to show his talent.

 

7. Grosjean - Not so good start to the season but in the last few races, with the long wheel base car, he showed he was capable of racing with the best.

8. Ricciardo - Consistently outqualified his teammate and had a couple of Very good races.

9. Webber - He was never that far from his teammate in qualifying and had some good races.

10. Bottas - In a very bad car he managed to show his potential. Plus he also outqualified and outscored his more experienced race winning teammate.

I pretty much agree,but Alonso was at least a clear and alone second in the ranking.

[Seanspeed]

Haha, OK, I'll agree that Vettel was the best this season but only if people are willing to concede that Ferrari was no better than 7th...

And you are quoting yourself to continue your same classless trolling.  You have issues.

[AnR]

1. Vettel, in a league of his own

2. Alonso, the Ferrari should not have been there

3. Hulkenberg, break through

4. Kimi

5. Rosberg

6. Hamilton

7. Grosjean

8. Webber

9. Button

10. Bottas

[RealRacing]

And you are quoting yourself to continue your same classless trolling.  You have issues.

My reply was to those that did not spot the irony. The remaining one just needs to vent his own frustration. If every post making fun of or using irony with your favorite team or driver offends you, its you who has the issues. 

[Taxi]

1Sebastien Vettel

I’ve said year after year: It’s a mistake to underestimate his talent. The result of acting like Vettel is just a lucky young gun withthe best car that doesn’t realy deserve his wcd’s is so wrong but his opponents only now seem to take him seriously. At 4^th championship.Senna, Prost, Fangio level. He may have the best car, but still he made it work wonderfully once again. 13 wins, 9 poles and a 9 win strike don’t come by simply being lucky or 1^st driver.He is THAT good. Vettel’s will to win makes him sometimes a bit spoiled insecure brat like at Malasia, or his Hungary bitching, but hey, all the greats had their ups and downs. He the best with margin right now.

 

2Fernando Alonso

When the car was good he was there. When the car faded he still had very good performances although maybe a bit down on last year. Nevertheless he kept 2^nd place once again in a truly struggling [specialy in quail] car in the end of the year. Only real mistake was at Malasia.

3Kimi Raikkonen

8 podiumswith a win and 6 2^nd places for the Finn. Once again mighty consistent, he battled Alonso and Vettel until his unfortunate Spa GP. After that he was announced to Ferrari and his performance went a bit down.Kimi’s weakness is still his big sensitive approach to the car. Once it goes way from his preferences he struggles like he did with the LongBaseChassis and new [old] spectires.Even so he kept going flat out, injured, unpaid and treated with disrespect.Melburne,Monaco, Korea and Singapore were incredible. Still the rock star of the paddock heads and shoulders above the rest.[ just noticed the Heads and Shoulders irony]

4Lewis Hamilton

Going to Mercedes proved the right decision as we can see for his 4^rd place in the championship. The car was very fast in quail and Lewis scored big points on it. 5 poles and his traditional Hungaroring win were the highs. But… Rosberg proved to be very good and kept him honest thought the season

5Romain Grosjean

In the beginning of the season he almost got kicked. But then, when the car suited his stile better, he shone, beated Kimi repeatedlyand scored almost as many podiums as his team mate. He was called to be the chief when kimi departed to Ferrari and he delivered. He’s fast and he is becoming consistent.

6Nico Rosberg

2 wins, 3 poles. Excellent season for Rosberg who I think got better with the arrival of Hamilton. Although he is a tinny bit down in all areas on the brit he proved that he has what it takes.

7Nico Hulkemberg

I for one, don’t jump the hype right away. Sure he is very fast and scored a lot of points, but truth being told Sauber became a very good car late in the year as average Gutierrez also shone at times. Nico is the best alongside Romain from the new kids, but lets wait a bit more.

 

 

8Daniel Ricciardo

He doesn’t impress me much apart his pure speed in quail. But he beated Vergne and got that Red Bull seat. That sure counts for something.

 

9Mark Webber

Well that must be tough. He has the best car and no wins. Vettel cracked him in Malasia, red bull is Vettel oriented but even so he could have made a better job. He’s still fast but in races he fades. Specially at starts. Even so, a lot of podiums and 3^th in the championship for the departing aussie and a overall very respectable career.

 

10Valteri Bottas

Rookie of the year award just in front of Bianchi. He bested the more experienced and quite fast Maldonado. Frank Williams think he can be a champion. Lets wait and see.

[Seanspeed]

My reply was to those that did not spot the irony. The remaining one just needs to vent his own frustration. If every post making fun of or using irony with your favorite team or driver offends you, its you who has the issues. 

You know what you're doing. 

[Ferrari2183]

What? 4 years on the trot? You think Hamilton was just driving around in 2010 and 2012? Vettel also made serious mistakes in 2010.


This year Vettel was clearly above others.
Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen had a could-have-done-better season.

I don't think Hamilton is bad driver, I actually find myself warming to him now that he is no longer a McLaren driver but he hasn't been on the Vettel/Alonso level over the last 4 years.

I will stick with my opinion thank you.

[HNSX]

-Red Bull F1/Adrian Newey/FIA/Pirelli

-Fernando Alonso

-Kimi Raikkonen

-Nico Hulkenberg

-Mark Webber

-Nico Rosberg

-Lewis Hamilton

-Romain Grosjean

-Jenson Button

-Sergio Perez

Edited by HNSX, 25 November 2013 - 19:14.

[Balnazzard]

+1 king shark,how Kimi has been better than Alonso this season is beyond me.Raikonnen fans are in for a shock next year.

And I say you Alonso fans are in for utter humiliation next year. If Kimi gets the car into his liking, then there is no stopping him...but likewise if he has trouble adapting into things he dont like, like this year with Lotus LWB, then Alonso could get the upper hand.

 

But really what I cant understand is that even after the last 2 years some ppl still seem to underestimate Kimi....Although Grosjean emerged to be incredibly great driver during the 2nd half of 2013, for most part it was entirely thanks to Kimi that Lotus could even dream of challening the top teams during these last 2 years. So as long as Kimi gets what he wants from the car, he is gonna give Alonso run for his money and cold shower to you who think Mr Eyebrow will destroy him

 

Alonso drove brillantly in 2012, but this season wasnt nearly as great...Many ppl seem to forget that before the 2012 tires were taken back in Hungary, Ferrari was on much better form and Alonso managed to win those 2 races at the beginning of the season....but after that not only Ferrari's performance went down, but I also felt that Alonso didnt give his very best especially in qualifying....sure neither did Kimi, so its for me quite hard to decide which one of them to put first, but considering Kimi's incredibly strong start of the season and break the record of most consecutive points finishes,  I too rank Kimi above Alonso

1.Vettel

2.Raikkonen

3.Alonso

4.Hulkenberg

5.Hamilton

6.Rosberg

7.Grosjean

8.Webber

9.Bottas

10.Bianchi

Edited by Balnazzard, 25 November 2013 - 19:18.

[noikeee]

My (rather lenghty) take:

 

1. Sebastian Vettel

If in previous title-winning campaigns it felt as if other drivers had done better than him with lesser machinery, this year I have little doubt Seb deserves it as he stepped up a notch in performance. Don't get me wrong Newey & Crew gave him an absolute missile, particularly from mid-season onwards when the new (old?) tyres now allowed Red Bull to put all of the downforce on track, but he absolutely made the most of it, just look at the gigantic gaps he was putting over Webber at a point. He was already leading the pack before the tyre changes, when Red Bull were not noticeably any better than the opposition, and then just simply won 9 on a row when they were. From the top of my mind I don't remember a single mistake this year? Thoroughly deserved title.

 

2. Fernando Alonso

Still reliably adding up vast amounts of points in an average Ferrari, but the magic of previous seasons has been lost a little - is this Fred just slightly past his peak? Felipe's little run of outqualifying him a few times later in the year shown Fred's pace isn't the absolute benchmark albeit the Spaniard was invariably always quicker in the races. Still a fantastic driver, the 50+ point gap over the Mercedes and Lotus drivers is telling as I don't think the Ferrari was any better than either of those cars, he is comfortably my 2nd placed driver in this list.

 

3. Nico Hulkenberg

Paired with a total underperforming newbie that hugely flattered him, it is a little hard to judge exactly how good was Hulk's run this season - we know it was some level of good, but is it Alonso-level, Button-level? I can't tell, at all. Nevertheless I have little doubt this was Hulk's finest year in F1 yet as he was absolutely convincing from the first to the last race weekend, increasing his performance when the Sauber came good sure, but he was already a highlight if you paid close attention in the early stages of the season as he dragged that thing into the points. In his previous F1 years he'd shine only in certain parts of the season - massive improvement there. It is this level of consistency that made me put him ahead of Raikkonen, Hamilton, Rosberg - just. I'm eager to see him in a top car sooner or later.

 

4. Kimi Raikkonen

Flattered by the Lotus, or flattering the Lotus? Again I cannot tell for sure and my suspicion is that at different points of the season, both of those statements would be true. It's easy to forget how good his string of results was early in the season when those Pirellis were cheese - a win and many, many 2nd places kept him close to Vettel in the title chase for a long time as his racecraft excelled. And Grosjean was absolutely nowhere near (just check out the Melbourne and Shanghai results). But as the season progressed he started to disappoint a bit and the Frenchman, rejuvenated by new found form, even out-performed him a bit later in the year. Was it the hurting back, or could he just not be arsed anymore with the late paying Lotus? Does it matter, as we are ranking performance, not excuses here? Still outscored Romain by 50pts despite missing 2 races.

 

5. Lewis Hamilton

On raw speed I certainly rate him above post-McLaren-days Kimi, but did he unleash his raw speed here and translated it into points? His performance vs Nico was super close, it was practically a tie between both really. He was a consistent points scorer all year long, regardless of the fluctuations in Mercedes form, which is a very good sign, but the days Nico was on top, he was nowhere. Even in qualifying, where you'd expect Lewis to shine the most, it was almost a tie. It looks as if these tyres and style of racing just don't suit him, and his mind perhaps isn't in the right place - he remains a top, top driver, but unable to extract his full potential.

 

6. Nico Rosberg

What can Nico do to get some respect? He beat a 7xWDC for several years, people didn't rate him, now he basically ties with a current top driver (ran him certainly closer than what Button - another WDC - did recently), grabs 2 wins with a car that wasn't the outright best, and still doesn't move further than 6th in my list! What's wrong? Well for a start I'd like some consistency. It's no good having those big fat 25-point scores if you're going to grab just 2 or 4 points next race. He'd outperform Hamilton grabbing a sensational win, and then be mistifyingly plain average the next race. He did so much better than people expected yet puzzlingly, it feels as if he's also confirmed he's not a top driver, too, if very close to it. I think we might very well have seen Nico's very best this year.

 

7. Jenson Button

A wildly under-rated season, which is what you get when you're given a car far below the team's expectations as people blame the drivers for it. People are giving him crap for not having scored a podium but realistically could that be achieved? When there's constantly 8 cars on track quicker than him, potentially 10 when Force India was quicker at the start of the year, or 9 when the Hulk/Sauber combo was quicker at the end? Was that really his fault? It feels as if he was very consistent and extracted almost the maximum of his machinery, but we know from previous years his raw pace is not the greatest, and Pérez did match/beat him on pace in several occasions. The Lewis/Nico/Jenson triangle of cross-team-mate comparisons is also favourable to Nico, which is why it'd feel wrong to put Jenson higher than him in the list. Well done Jenson, but it wasn't an outstanding season.

 

8. Romain Grosjean

Wow, just wow. I thought he was a total lost cause, clearly not as his improved form later on the season was just spectacular. If I'd be rating drivers on the past 3 months he'd easily be in my top 4, and he looks to be coming into 2014 with fantastic momentum. Absolutely deserves a win by now. Thing is, 2013 was a 19-race season where every one counts the same, and in early season he was scoring 9th and 10th places whilst Kimi was scoring wins and 2nd's. A 4-race hiatus without a single score was a pretty low point as well. He might be on superb form at the moment, but averaging things out I cannot place him any higher on this list.

 

9. Paul di Resta

A case of bad PR and an unlikeable personality, makes everyone remember the lows and mock him for it, forgetting the highs. This was a really rather decent season by Paul, out-scoring, out-racing and out-qualifying Adrian Sutil, if not by a great amount. Having a car that started out the season with outstanding pace, but then progressively lost out to McLaren and Sauber, also made him look bad as it made him unable to meet expectations. It appears he's about to lose a seat in F1 next year and that is a shame as he has evidently the ability to outperform half the grid - even if as we've known from previous seasons that he's not as good as Nico Hulkenberg; and as good as this season was I also feel he didn't show top class consistency.

 

10. Daniel Ricciardo

Looking at statistics it's somewhat funny to see he doesn't appear to have done any better than last year, yet ended up with an awful lot more points. What is telling is that those points were spread out all year long, instead of flattered by 1 or 2 good races. We already knew he could extract far more from the Toro Rosso than Vergne in Saturdays, but this season he confirmed he could consistently turn his good Sundays into results. That being said, there still remains a worrying element of going backwards in the races sometimes and Vergne ran him close there. He is worthy of a chance in a better team yes, but probably not an outright top seat in Red Bull - let's see how that goes.

 

11. Sergio Pérez

If we were to sum up his season in one word it'd be "try-hard". Overdriving cost him a big bag of points early on, as he seemed shocked by McLaren's poor car, and also unable to deal with the fact Button generally appeared to be marginally quicker than him, when he had been hired to replace the quicker Hamilton as a lead driver. This is the reason McLaren sacked him as they need someone better than the 11th best driver in F1. That being said he is hardly poor, did match Button's pace on numerous occasions and his points defficit to his team-mate was more rooted in mistakes than slowness, which can be worked on. I am convinced he has the potential to be a regular top 10 driver in this list, as shown by a stellar final 2 races of the season which probably sealed him a deserved spot in the F1 midfield for next year. The chance at reaching the top might be gone, but the door for a nice journeyman career is still open. The guy is still very young, remember. And even if he never improves, he could do far worse than to merely repeat the excellent highs he shown for Sauber last year.

 

12. Mark Webber

This was the year Mark's form tanked, and whilst coming 3rd in the championship is a dignified send-off, I can't help but feel that greatly flatters him. Even if your team-mate's a monster driver winning his 4th title on the run, you cannot routinely finish races 30 seconds behind him. Malaysia or not, you cannot lose 13-0 on wins neither. The reason he still salvages a decent-ish spot on my list were the odd weekends he still came reasonably close to Vettel, like in the final race, and that is an achievement many other drivers in F1 wouldn't be capable of. And to be fair whilst slow he was a very consistent points finisher. I do understand his poor performance, his mind wasn't on F1 anymore. Wish him the best at Porsche.

 

13. Felipe Massa

A curious case of performance only appearing when his career is on a knife-edge. 2012 had been utterly dismal, so he badly needed results to shake off that perception, and there you go, he scored a nice start to the season with a couple strong points results. But then when Alonso kept on scoring podiums as the season progressed, why was Felipe wandering around 7th, 8th position? Of course, when it emerged he was without a seat for 2014, suddenly he started outqualifying Alonso on a consistent basis! Even then, at his best all year, he still invariably lost out on race pace every single weekend to Alonso, and finished the season with less than half of his points. I think if he drove with full concentration and motivation he could still be a top 10 driver, but I sadly don't think Williams is getting a motivated driver for next year.

 

14. Valtteri Bottas

I had a very hard time separating the Williams drivers - Bottas had a slight upper hand in qualifying, but also had a slight defficit in the races which are far more important in this era in F1. But he also had a higher high in Austin, which ultimately gave the team more points. That just about nudged it for me in favour of the Finn. Lack of race pace for most of the season was worrying, but he clearly finished the season on good form, and that progression is a positive sign for a rookie driver who had been 1 year out of racing. Lack of mistakes all year long, another positive sign. 14th place in this list may not look great but it's a good start to your F1 career. Might have a fair bit of potential, and I'll back him to beat Massa next year - just.

 

15. Pastor Maldonado

Oh dear, he clearly isn't a very popular driver at the moment, is he. The wrong attitude is obvious - causing accidents on track, blaming the team for poor performance, coming off as entitled as he believes he deserves a better car. But that has little to do with his actual performance, which was okay, in a car that was admitedly very poor. I am puzzled by the pattern of being beaten by a rookie in qualy but then outperforming him over the races, seems at odds with his reputation of a wild but quick driver. Probably deserves to remain in F1 but probably isn't half as good as he thinks he is.

 

16. Adrian Sutil

Being slightly more average than Paul di Resta doesn't make him the most exciting driver in the world. You would forgive him for being off the pace in the earlier stages of the season after being a year away, and he did seem to improve a bit after a while. But then he ended the season again behind Paul, which doesn't flatter his ability much. Ultimately was out-qualified, out-raced, out-scored. Still kept himself fairly within reach and didn't disgrace himself, but I'd rather see him out of F1 than Paul, which doesn't appear to be happening. We've seen better years out of Sutil and it's unlikely he'll step up to another level in the future.

 

17. Jules Bianchi

Entered F1 with quite a bang - out-qualifying his team-mate by a huge amount and winning the backmarkers fight. But then his rather poor team-mate started to get closer and closer as the season went out, which makes Jules' performance less exciting on hindsight. This seems more in line with Jules' reputation gained on the junior series in recent years, of being a good-but-not-great driver. Has a fair bit of potential, but it's also telling that Ferrari isn't rushing him into a better seat and he never impressed as a 3rd driver for Force India. It's disappointing that he appears set to be paired with Chilton next year again, instead of us getting the chance to evaluate him vs a better measuring stick.

 

18. Jean-Eric Vergne

What the hell has happened to the driver Trevor Carlin rated as one of the best he's ever worked with? We need more wet races. Still looks completely lost in qualifying, and this time couldn't mask his marginal defficit to Daniel in the races with high points scores in the wet, despite a random great race in Montreal. His career seems to have reached a very bad dead-end - do Red Bull believe in him at all anymore, or are they retaining him merely as a measuring stick for Kvyat, and as an element of continuity for Toro Rosso? It's hard to see how can he get out of this. Needs to improve qualifying, fast.

 

19. Charles Pic

A young paydriver with an under-rated level of talent due to having been fast-tracked through the ladder of series far too quickly, being paired with another paydriver in a terrible car he badly needed to outperform him convincingly to be taken seriously. And he did so for a fair while, until they changed the tyres - and then magically to Pic's horror, VdG started being occasionally quicker. I'm afraid that's a career killer, even if VdG isn't necessarily "slow". He might hang on to a Caterham seat, but I'm not pic-turing Pic making it to a lengthy successful F1 career.

 

20. Giedo van der Garde

Well, I've pretty much covered him already as I went through Pic's performance. Awfully out of his depth at the start of the season, with his seat even threatened by Kovalainen, Giedo suddenly came alive when they changed the tyres and may have saved his continuity in F1, no doubt helped by a big bag of cash. But I've seen him for far too many years in the lower series to know he's not a future champion, WSR-title-after-zillions-of-years-of-experience or not.

 

21. Esteban Gutiérrez

51-6 in points, ouch. It'd always be a difficult job to be paired against the Hulk in your debut year in F1, particularly given the sneaky suspicion we all had about him after watching him in GP2 that he wasn't ready. But this was worse than expected, he was just rubbish. Very few signs of the talent he shown winning the GP3 and Formula BMW Europe titles in the past, he was legitimately Latin America's next great hope at a point. He did get better as the season went on and even qualified into Q3 once or twice, but that obviously coincided with an improvement in the car, clearly shown by the Hulk's sensational upturn in form - who continued to finish many places ahead, but now higher up in the results sheet. Has some potential, but won't win races any time soon.

 

22. Heikki Kovalainen

I always include every driver in these rankings, regardless if they've only done a race or two. And I don't rank excuses or potential, only raw performance, albeit to be fair Heikki had a pretty damn good excuse - it was simply impossible for any driver to be thrown in the same conditions and match Grosjean. I think in normal circumstances Heikki's far better than 22nd, that is highlighted by how Caterham even considered putting him in a race seat to the expense of losing a highly profittable decent paydriver. But he was awfully off the pace for Lotus, more so than I expected even given his handicap.

 

23. Max Chilton

His lack of pace in Melbourne was a total joke, then progressively improved to be only a fair bit off pace as the season went on. He was never going to be good enough for a F1 seat, but I suppose he's still doing a mildly professional job. I think people have no idea how difficult it is to perform at a level like this, the normal guy cannot approach even what Max Chilton does. That being said, it's criminal that a seat appears set to be wasted on him again next year.

[kimister]

I actually did this ranking in another topic, so I post  almost same order 

 

1)Sebastian Vettel 

2)Fernando Alonso ,Kimi Raikkonen

3)Lewis Hamilton,Nico Hulkenberg, Nico Rosberg 

4)Jenson Button, Mark Webber , Daniel Ricciardo ,Romain Grosjean 

5)Felipe Massa, Valtteri Bottas, Jules Bianchi 

6)Adrian Sutil ,Sergio Perez, Paul Di Resta, Giedo Van Der Garde 

7)Pastor Maldonado ,Jean-Eric Vergne, Esteban Gutierrez 

8)Charles Pic

9)Max Chilton 

Edited by kimister, 25 November 2013 - 19:23.

[andysaint]

Vettel 10/10 - Domination
Webber 8/10 - Good season once he realised this was it
Alonso 9/10 - Great in a rubbish car
Massa 6/10 - 1 podium too many incidents and penalties. Only got going once he got the boot
Raikkonen 8/10 - Did well considering the behind the scenes problems. Should have won more
Grosjean 7/10 - Good comeback consistent
Hamilton 8/10 - Good first season when focus is on 2014
Rosberg 7/10 - Pleasing two wins not a lot after that
Button 6/10 - Disappointing failed to lead from the front when it was most needed
Perez 5/10 - Should have done better aggressive but in the wrong way
Di Resta 6/10 - Tyres changing didn't help but if Hulkenburg can make a average car look good....
Sutil 5/10 - Average driver for an average team
Hulkenburg - 7/10 - Excellent 2nd half when seats were up for grabs
Guiterez - 4/10 - Expected more destroyed by his team mate
Bottas - 6/10 - Beat his more experienced team mate in a horrible car
Maldonado - 4/10 - Did not lead from the front didn't seem to want to be there
Pic - 3/10 - Beaten by a rookie, expected him to dominate the Marrusia Caterham battle
Van Der Garde - 5/10 Decent first year, car was a big let down fasted driver at the back in the 2nd half of the season
Bianci - 6/10 Good first half showed pace but no development in the 2nd half meant he couldn't show his raw pace
Chilton 5/10 Consistent error free races and gained experience. He needs more pace though.

[Anderis]

9. Bottas - BOTTAS had the measure of Maldonado on his first year.

Not exactly. Maldonado beat him 10-9 head-to-head in races.

 

My top10?

1. Vettel

 

2-6. Alonso/Raikkonen/Hamilton/Rosberg/Hulkenberg- really hard to chose between them.

 

7-11. Button/Webber/Ricciardo/Grosjean/di Resta- a bit as above.

[Anderis]

Pic - 3/10 - Beaten by a rookie, expected him to dominate the Marrusia Caterham battle
Van Der Garde - 5/10 Decent first year, car was a big let down fasted driver at the back in the 2nd half of the season

Can't agree. Van der Garde could be on par with Pic in the last couple of races, but Pic completely dominated VdG in 1st half of the season and beat him by all measure over a season. 13-6 head-to-head in races, 0.16 secs faster on average in qualifying and higher position in WDC-standings.

[sennafan24]

Not exactly. Maldonado beat him 10-9 head-to-head in races.

People are forgetting this too easily.

 

Bottas at his best was outstanding, and better than Pastor as his best this year, but overall they were very close.

[andysaint]

Considering the experience of Maldonado and Pic against their respective team mates I would have expected better hence a reason for their rankings. Those rookies showed up better than their experienced team mates IMO.

[Anderis]

Considering the experience of Maldonado and Pic against their respective team mates I would have expected better hence a reason for their rankings. Those rookies showed up better than their experienced team mates IMO.

Well, if we rate performance, experience shouldn't be an excuse. You can rate somebody as a better prospect because he did a comparable job with less experience, but since we are rating 2013, we should hate how did they actually perform in 2013. If A beat B, then A deserves better rating even if B is less experienced.

 

I could understand your point in Bottas-Maldonado comparison. But Pic really doesn't have much experience advantage over Van der Garde. Van der Garde's first F1 test took place something a couple of years earlier than Pic's. He did a lot more tests in F1 car and spent more years in strong single-seater series so that one season more Pic had is not really much, especially since Charles is 5 years younger.

13-6 head-to-head is quite a big advantage by any mean, and Pic had also advantage in other statistics, so it's very unfair to rate Pic 2 points lower than Van der Garde. It would be even unfair to rate them the same IMO.

[Lights]

 

My (rather lenghty) take:

Easily the best list of this thread.

[bourbon]

1Vettel

2Raikkonen

3Alonso

4Rosberg

5Hamilton

6Hulkenberg

7Massa

8Button

9Perez

10Bottas

[tifosiMac]

Vettel

Alonso

Hamilton

Raikkonen

Hulkenberg

Rosberg

Grosjean

Webber

Button

Massa

No point me typing this out again, I agree

[RayInTorontoCanada]

 

My (rather lenghty) take:

 

1. Sebastian Vettel

... I have little doubt Seb deserves it as he stepped up a notch in performance...He was already leading the pack before the tyre changes..From the top of my mind I don't remember a single mistake this year?

 

2. Fernando Alonso

 

... Felipe's little run of outqualifying him a few times later in the year shown Fred's pace isn't the absolute benchmark albeit the Spaniard was invariably always quicker in the races... he is comfortably my 2nd placed driver in this list.

 

3. Nico Hulkenberg

Paired with a total underperforming newbie that hugely flattered him, it is a little hard to judge exactly... I can't tell, at all.

 

Nevertheless...he was absolutely convincing from the first to the last race weekend, increasing his performance when the Sauber came good sure, but he was already a highlight if you paid close attention in the early stages of the season as he dragged that thing into the points...It is this level of consistency that made me put him ahead of Raikkonen, Hamilton, Rosberg...

 

4. Kimi Raikkonen

 

...It's easy to forget how good his string of results was early in the season... a win and many, many 2nd places kept him close to Vettel in the title chase for a long time as his racecraft excelled. And Grosjean was absolutely nowhere near (just check out the Melbourne and Shanghai results)...outscored Romain by 50pts despite missing 2 races.

 

5. Lewis Hamilton

 

...His performance vs Nico was super close...the days Nico was on top, he was nowhere. Even in qualifying, where you'd expect Lewis to shine the most, it was almost a tie.... his mind perhaps isn't in the right place - he remains a top, top driver, but unable to extract his full potential.

 

6. Nico Rosberg

 

...he basically ties with a current top driver (ran him certainly closer than what Button - another WDC - did recently), ...and still doesn't move further than 6th in my list! What's wrong? Well for a start I'd like some consistency. It's no good having those big fat 25-point scores if you're going to grab just 2 or 4 points next race. He'd outperform Hamilton grabbing a sensational win, and then be mistifyingly plain average the next race...

 

7. Jenson Button

 

... we know from previous years his raw pace is not the greatest, and Pérez did match/beat him on pace in several occasions. The Lewis/Nico/Jenson triangle of cross-team-mate comparisons is also favourable to Nico, which is why it'd feel wrong to put Jenson higher than him in the list. ...it wasn't an outstanding season.

 

8. Romain Grosjean

 

... If I'd be rating drivers on the past 3 months he'd easily be in my top 4...Thing is, 2013 was a 19-race season where every one counts the same, and in early season he was scoring 9th and 10th places whilst Kimi was scoring wins and 2nd's. A 4-race hiatus without a single score was a pretty low point as well.

 

 

9. Paul di Resta

 

A case of bad PR and an unlikeable personality, makes everyone remember the lows and mock him for it, forgetting the highs. This was a really rather decent season by Paul, out-scoring, out-racing and out-qualifying Adrian Sutil, if not by a great amount.

 

...he has evidently the ability to outperform half the grid - even if as we've known from previous seasons that he's not as good as Nico Hulkenberg; and as good as this season was I also feel he didn't show top class consistency.

 

10. Daniel Ricciardo

 

...ended up with an awful lot more points. What is telling is that those points were spread out all year long, instead of flattered by 1 or 2 good races. We already knew he could extract far more from the Toro Rosso than Vergne in Saturdays, but this season he confirmed he could consistently turn his good Sundays into results. That being said, there still remains a worrying element of going backwards in the races sometimes and Vergne ran him close there. He is worthy of a chance in a better team yes, but probably not an outright top seat...

 

11. Sergio Pérez

 

...Overdriving cost him a big bag of points early on...Button generally appeared to be marginally quicker than him...This is the reason McLaren sacked him as they need someone better than the 11th best driver in F1. That being said he is hardly poor, did match Button's pace on numerous occasions and his points defficit to his team-mate was more rooted in mistakes than slowness...

 

I am convinced he has the potential to be a regular top 10 driver in this list...the door for a nice journeyman career is still open. The guy is still very young, remember.

 

12. Mark Webber

 

Even if your team-mate's a monster driver winning his 4th title on the run, you cannot routinely finish races 30 seconds behind him. Malaysia or not, you cannot lose 13-0 on wins neither. The reason he still salvages a decent-ish spot on my list were the odd weekends he still came reasonably close to Vettel, like in the final race, and that is an achievement many other drivers in F1 wouldn't be capable of. And to be ...he was a very consistent points finisher.

 

13. Felipe Massa

A curious case ... he scored a nice start to the season with a couple strong points results. But then when Alonso kept on scoring podiums as the season progressed, why was Felipe wandering around 7th, 8th position?

 

...suddenly he started outqualifying Alonso on a consistent basis! Even then, at his best all year, he still invariably lost out on race pace every single weekend to Alonso...

 

14. Valtteri Bottas

I had a very hard time separating the Williams drivers - Bottas had a slight upper hand in qualifying, but also had a slight defficit in the races which are far more important in this era in F1. But he also had a higher high in Austin...That just about nudged it for me in favour of the Finn. Lack of race pace for most of the season was worrying, but he clearly finished the season on good form, and that progression is a positive sign for a rookie driver who had been 1 year out of racing. Lack of mistakes all year long, another positive sign.

 

15. Pastor Maldonado

 

The wrong attitude...causing accidents... blaming the team for poor performance, coming off as entitled...

 

But that has little to do with his actual performance, which was okay... I am puzzled by the pattern of being beaten by a rookie in qualy but then outperforming him over the races, seems at odds with his reputation of a wild but quick driver. Probably deserves to remain in F1 but probably isn't half as good as he thinks he is.

 

16. Adrian Sutil

 

You would forgive him for being off the pace in the earlier stages of the season after being a year away, and he did seem to improve a bit after a while. But then he ended the season again behind Paul, which doesn't flatter his ability much.

 

...unlikely he'll step up to another level in the future.

 

17. Jules Bianchi

Entered F1 with quite a bang - out-qualifying his team-mate by a huge amount and winning the backmarkers fight. But then his rather poor team-mate started to get closer and closer as the season went out, which makes Jules' performance less exciting on hindsight. This seems more in line with Jules' reputation gained on the junior series in recent years, of being a good-but-not-great driver

 

...it's also telling that Ferrari isn't rushing him into a better seat and he never impressed as a 3rd driver for Force India.

 

18. Jean-Eric Vergne

 

What the hell has happened to the driver Trevor Carlin rated ...

 

Still looks completely lost in qualifying, and this time couldn't mask his marginal defficit to Daniel in the races with high points scores in the wet, despite a random great race in Montreal....Red Bull ... are they retaining him merely as a measuring stick for Kvyat, and as an element of continuity for Toro Rosso?

 

Needs to improve qualifying, fast.

 

19. Charles Pic

 

A young paydriver...being paired with another paydriver... he badly needed to outperform... convincingly to be taken seriously. And he did so for a fair while, until they changed the tyres - and then magically to Pic's horror, VdG started being occasionally quicker.

 

20. Giedo van der Garde

Well, I've pretty much covered him already as I went through Pic's performance. Awfully out of his depth at the start of the season, with his seat even threatened by Kovalainen, Giedo suddenly came alive when they changed the tyres and may have saved his continuity in ..

 

21. Esteban Gutiérrez

51-6 in points, ouch. It'd always be a difficult job to be paired against the Hulk in your debut year in F1, particularly given the sneaky suspicion we all had about him after watching him in GP2 that he wasn't ready. But this was worse than expected, he was just rubbish. Very few signs of the talent he shown winning the GP3 and Formula BMW Europe titles in the past

 

...the Hulk's... continued to finish many places ahead...

 

 

22. Heikki Kovalainen

 

... I think in normal circumstances Heikki's far better than 22nd... But he was awfully off the pace for Lotus, more so than I expected even given his handicap.

 

23. Max Chilton

 

His lack of pace in Melbourne was a total joke, then progressively improved to be only a fair bit off pace as the season went on. He was never going to be good enough for a F1 seat, but I suppose he's still doing a mildly professional job...

 

A terrific post - which I have edited down (to crystalize the main points).

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything above - but I do mostly agree.

 

Having said that, my order is slightly different. Here:

 

1 Vettel - he did make some mistakes (notably Hungary), but they were minor.

 

Dominated Webber who was still fast over a lap and relatively consistent (when the package was delivered to the Aussie).

 

2 (possibly 3 but likey 2) Alonso - made more mistakes (Malaysia, Bahrain, Spa qually,etc.) than Vettel and didn't dominate Massa in qually. That much is clear.

 

3 (possibly 2 but likely 3) Raikkonen - was hugely consistent and was up the equivalent of more than 3 wins on Grosjean going into his final race (in which he out-qualified Grosjean by a margin in the SWB E21 before race control sent him to the back of the grid). It was in Lotus' financial best interest that Grosjean finish ahead of Kimi in races after he signed for Ferrari.

 

4 Hamilton - he didn't have the consistency of Vettel in Qually or of Vettel-Alonso-Raikkonen in races - but he did edge out Rosberg in his 1st year at Mercedes. Needs to improve to 2007, 2010 and 2012 levels.

 

5 (possibly 6) Hulkenberg - Hard to truly judge because of Guttierez. Certainly higher than di Resta. Very consistent (at VET-ALO-RAI levels of race consistency; At VET levels of qually consistency).

 

6 (possibly 5) Rosberg - he too didn't have the consistency of the top 3 or of Hulkenberg - but his benchmark was Hamilton, not Guttierez. I really believe that - adjusted for mechanical issues (which was made up for by his lucky win at Silverstone where Hamilton (and Vettel) had the measure of him) -  that he was relatively close to Hamilton. But he wasn't better than Hamilton (who was in new digs, etc.).

 

----

 

Here is where it starts to diverge...

 

----

 

7 Webber - look, he had a very high 2013 benchmark, likely one of the All Time Greatest single season by anyone, including Fangio, Clark, Senna/Prost, etc. Yet, on one lap pace, he wasn't far off mostly. His starts were poor - but when the team delivered the car and the pitstops, he was consistent. I think he was more consistent than Grosjean over 19 races. He was also more consistent than Button/Perez, di Resta and Riccardo. And he was certainly more consistent than Massa.

 

8 (no lower than 8 but a small case can be made for 7) Grosjean - your (edited) comment above.

 

= 9 (no higher than 9, no lower than 10) Riccardo - what you wrote (edited).

 

= 9 (no higher than 9, no lower than 10) Button - not a great qualifyer and was edged-out 10-9 in Qually by a guy who was given the boot - who, himself, was no better than Kobayashi. Button also had some pretty invisible-to-woeful meetings. I can't place him higher than 9th.

 

It's my opinion that neither McLaren driver extracted the maximum out of the car consistently. Was it a podium car? No! But there were too many times when Jenson wasn't where he ought to have been.

 

= 11 di Resta

 

= 11 Perez

 

13 Massa

 

14 Bottas

 

15 Maldonado

 

16 Sutil

 

17 Bianchi

 

18 JEV

 

19/20  Pic ~ = VDG

 

21 Kovalainen

 

22 Guttierez

 

23 Chilton

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 28 November 2013 - 19:32.

[RayInTorontoCanada]

Yes, yes - I know: Button scored a fine 4th in Brazil.

 

And so what?

 

Kimi wasn't there; Grosjean's Lotus-Renault blew up.

 

And, both Massa and Hamilton had some iffy penalties and,  on top of that, they simply didn't have a decent meeting.

 

Is that Button's fault?

 

No...but Perez out-qualified him - and the McLaren was the 3rd fastest car and had very good race pace.

 

You don't go from 19th to 6th if you're an 'OK' F1 driver like Perez unless the car is good enough to do so.

[ezequiel]

In no particular order:

Alonso

Vettel

Rosberg

Hamilton

Raikkonen

Grosjean

Button

Di Resta

Hulkenberg

Ricciardo

[apoka]

1. Hamilton (given the race pace of that car and that it was a new team for him, he did great imo)

2. Alonso (once more outperformed his car, great stuff from him and my respect for him continues to grow because of it)

3. Button (had a mare of a car but still pulled off a 4th place and 73 points, including outperforming Perez who people thought would take him on easily)

4. Raikkonen (consistently great this year, let down by the car just not having the pace on Saturday's and the team's lack of support for him toward the seasons end)

5. Grosjean (improved markedly after the early part of the season, it's a shame I think Lotus will struggle next year as it would be interesting to see what he could do otherwise)

6. Rosberg (the wins were a bit lucky if im honest, but all in all I think he did well, outperformed Lewis for genuine pace at times)

7. Hulkenberg (not as generous as some about him as I still can't be sure how much of it is tyre management, but his defensive driving at times was golden)

8. Di Resta (great first half of the year, still managed to pick up points toward the end as well despite the car being a dog on the 2012 tyres)

9. Ricciardo (finally showed his potential in qualifying and also by picking up more points than Vergne)

10. Bianchi (outperformed his car at times and easily the best rookie and best of the class of 2010)

 

Are you sure you didn't forget anyone? 

[Burtros]

Vettel

Alonso

Raikkonen

Hamilton

Grosjean

Rosberg

Hulkenberg

Button

Di Resta

Bottas

[abc]

Vettel - without a doubt

Alonso - I had him third before Austin, but I loved his last two races

Hulkenberg - he was consistently amazing

Kimi - best driver in first 5-6 races, overall he didnt disappoint

Ricciardo - second best qualifier of the year, sometimes he showed pretty good pace in spite of car and team strategies

Hamilton - his average year, he is not formidable opponent on Pirrelis

Rosberg - cant see him anywhere else than one place behind Lewis

Bottas - beating Maldovano in first year belongs to top 10, showed real promise, although hardly really put whole weekend together

Grosjean - weak - weak - very good, last moment visitor to top 10

Button - for me disappointment of the year, its not popular view here, but he was more time than not slower than Perez.

 

IMO majority here forgets that between most drivers differences are not that big, if one is dominated by teammate like no end, he doesnt belong anywhere near top 10 (Massa,  Webber and to some degree RG)

[hupholland]

1. Vettel

2. Alonso

3. Raikkonen

4. Rosberg

5. Hamilton

6. Hulkenberg

7. Button

8. Riciardo

9. Bianchi

10. Grosjean/Di Resta/Webber

[Viceroy]

1. Vettel

2. Hülkenberg

3. Di Resta

4. Alonso

5. Raikkonen

6. Rosberg

7. Grosjean

8. Hamilton

9. Ricciardo

10. Bianchi