118 replies to this topic

[DutchQuicksilver]

1. Fernando Alonso - Don't know, still believe he's better than Vettel.

2. Sebastian Vettel - Four titles, says enough. Even if it was in a dominant car.

3. Lewis Hamilton - Multiple wins, poles and a championship. Placed above Kimi because he left for three years.

4. Kimi Raikkonen - World title in 2007, solid comeback after three years away.

5. Robert Kubica - Had the natural speed, such a shame we couldn't see him in the Lotus from 2012 and 2013.

6. Mark Webber - Had five great seasons with Red Bull, multiple wins and nearly winning the championship in 2010.

7. Jenson Button - Lucky championship in 2009, dull seasons at McLaren so far, bar 2011. Starting to look like DC in his last McLaren years.

8. Nico Rosberg - But only after he signed for Mercedes. 2013 helps him into this top ten.

9. Felipe Massa - Solid 2007, Excellent 2008 and first part of 2009. Never back to his form after that though.

10. Nick Heidfeld - Had his best seasons in 2007 and 2008. Should have won a race.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 26 November 2013 - 19:50.

[RealRacing]

Where have I seen this type of thread before?

[Arn]

1. Vettel - It probably sounds crazy to most people, but I think he might actually make the Redbull look even better than it is.

 

2. Alonso - Who knows, could be better than Vettel but the main thing that makes me put him 2. is his 2007 season. IMO he should have dominated a rookie, even if the rookie had done thousands of testing miles.

 

3. Hamilton - Speed is definately there but you get the feeling that he hasn't performed to his true skill at many occasions. Especially after his WDC winning year. Pirelli tires and driving to deltas is holding him back.

 

4. Raikkonen - My favorite driver since the McLaren days. Good and consistent in races, but you get the feeling that he hasn't had the ability to get the most out of the car in qualifying since he came to Ferrari. Rated by his McLaren stint only, I would put him right up there with Alonso (and Vettel), and so did many other people back then.

 

5. Webber - I think he is seriously underrated. Has dominated everyone teammate except Heidfeld before being teamed with Vettel. Was considered among the absolute fastest drivers in qualifying and was predicted by most people to beat Vettel by mid 2008. (Just take a look in the Webber vs Vettel thread from 2008  )

 

6. Rosberg - Great lower series before F1 and great in F1 considering the cars. Beat Schumacher easily and is very close to Hamilton.

 

7. Heidfeld - Another very underrated driver. Has done well against all teammates including ones who have gone on to accomplish great things.

 

8. Button - Good consistent driver, but I think he has been flattered by all the problems Hamilton had during their time together, and the introduction of Pirelli tires giving less importance to out right speed in the races.

 

9. Kubica - Has been away for a while but I think I rated him very highly back then, probably top 5.

 

10. Massa - Was already showing in his first season with Ferrari that he had great potential and beat Schumacher in a few races. Don't think he is as good as before his accident but who knows, maybe Alonso really is that good, that he makes Massa look like one of the worst drivers on the grid on sundays. He still has his moments and shows the speed is there when he has out qualified Alonso on a few occasions.

[zippythecat]

1. Alonso, simply because he's been at or near the top the entire time.

 

2. Vettel. Dominant once he got rolling. Those who'd rank him #1 aren't wrong.

 

3. Raikkonen. "Motivation" talk is BS, the man was in it to win it in 2008 and lost out mainly because of Hamilton's boneheadedness in Canada, the broken exhaust in France and the 2008 Ferrari's general uselessness in the wet.

 

4. Hamilton. Million-dollar feet and hands, five-cent head. Has underperformed since 2008 and arguably was gifted his WDC by Glock. Clearly isn't much of a manager in the cockpit, which drops him below Kimi in my view. Horrible 2011 was the worst season by any of the drivers mentioned here, save for Grosjean's 2012.

 

5. Button. The anti-Hamilton as a manager but doesn't have the one-lap pace to consistently match the top four. When on it, as in 2009 and 2011, he's a tough beat.

 

6. Webber. Best of the rest, the great unknown is what he might've done with a top car earlier in his career. Choked in late 2010 while his teammate was grabbing the brass ring. But his drives that year at Monaco and Silverstone are up there with the best of the era.

 

7. Kubica. Another of the great unknowns for obvious reasons, but would've been more clearly deserving of a WDC in 2008 than either Hamilton or Massa had BMW continued developing the car. Suspect given continued good health he might've jumped as high as #3 on this list. A pairing with Alonso at Ferrari would've been very interesting to say the least.

 

8. Rosberg. Inherited win this year at Silverstone was the most unconvincing since Heikki's at Hungary 2008. Suspect he's essentially a younger Button with all that implies.

 

9. Massa. Would've been the worst driver to win a WDC since J. Villeneuve had Glock not moved over, but on his day was as capable as Webber of dominating a field. Cowed by Alonso and maddeningly inconsistent otherwise.

 

10. Grosjean. Really the only other guy to make inroads on the podium in this era, looks like he's evolving into a potential title contender. But the rough start to his career knocks him down. Hulkenberg may be the better bet going forward, assuming he gets into a Ferrari in 2015.

Edited by zippythecat, 27 November 2013 - 06:47.

[OvDrone]

1. Vettel

2. Alonso

3. Hamilton

4. Raikkonen

5. Button

6. Webber

7. Kubica

8. Massa

9. Rosberg

10. Heidfeld

 

Overall, a truly great generation and it was an absolute pleasure to be a witness to it.

[lbennie]

1. Vettel

2. Alonso

3. Raikkonen

4. Hamilton

5. Webber

6. Button

7. Kubica

8. Massa

9. Rosberg

10. Barrichelo

[Kobasmashi]

Seriously?.....Cause I say he is RIGHT there with Vettel, Alonso and Ham...I mean if we look his final place in WDC from 2007 onwards....1st in 2007, 3rd in 2008, 6th in 2009 (finishing just 1 point behind Lewis, both Ferrari and Mclaren sucked that year), 3rd in 2012 and most likely would have finished atleast 4th ahead of Ham this year had he driven the last two races....

Don't use WDC positions for this argument, Hamilton came second in his rookie season and then beat Raikkonen in 2008&9. As for 2012 Hamilton lost well over a hundred points from other people's cock ups (Spain Q3 fuel, Singapore & Abu Dhabi breakdowns, getting rammed by Hulk in Brazil, getting rammed by Maldonado in Valencia, getting rammed by Grosjean in Belgium). Do you honestly think he only outdrove Button by 2 (iirc) points? He drove well enough to win the title, let alone beat Kimi to third place.

If you had bothered to read my post you'd notice I said I do place Kimi up with Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton, but for the purposes of this thread we're talking about 2007-2013, a period which doesn't include Kimi's 03 and 05 seasons for example.

I'd place them:

1. Alonso
2. Vettel
3. Hamilton
4. Kimi
5. Button
6. Kubica (would be higher obviously, sadly)
7. Webber
8. Rosberg
9. Hülkenberg
10. Glock

[Jimisgod]

I will just bother with the current top drivers. I think best thing would be to average the performance in these seasons, leaving aside those too hard to rate or those where they didn´t race.

2007: Räikkönen 9 Alonso 8 Hamilton 8 Vettel -
2008: Hamilton 8 Alonso 7 Vettel 7 Räikkönen 4
2009: Vettel 8 Hamilton 7 Räikkönen 7 Alonso 5
2010: Alonso 9 Vettel 9 Hamilton 9 Räikkönen -
2011: Vettel 10 Alonso 9 Hamilton 4 Räikkönen-
2012: Alonso 10 Vettel 9 Hamilton 9 Räikkönen 8
2013: Vettel 10 Alonso 8 Räikkönen 8 Hamilton 6

That averages:

1) Vettel 8´8
2) Alonso 8´0
3) Hamilton 7´2
4) Räikkönen 7´2

So that´s how the post Schumacher picture looks for me between the top guys.

That's a pretty fair assessment.

[Tarzaan]

mine:

 

1 - Vettel

2 - Alonso

 

some space

 

3 - Massa (before his accident)

4 - Kubica

5 - Rosberg

6 - Hamilton

7 - Button

8 - Raikonnen

9 - Heidfeld

10 - Glock

Edited by Tarzaan, 27 November 2013 - 13:53.

[sennafan24]

http://www.motorspor...lonso-question/

 

A interesting piece on drivers rating the top 2 picks in this thread,  Alonso and Vettel

 

A quick content analysis has Alonso winning 6-2 in quantity, with a whole lot of drivers sitting on the fence. Given that a lot of the clear votes are made by drivers look out for there best interests (Bianchi, JEV and Riccardo) the sample is quite small.

 

Heikki is the most interesting saying simply "Alonso" without even thinking. most already know Lewis's opinion. Perez, Pastor and Gut go for Alonso, but the author suggests that might be influenced by speaking the same language as Alonso. It seems Heikki is the most interesting as there is no known influence present to sway his vote. Its a shame they did not ask him to expand as to why he thinks Alonso is better.

 

It seems even the drivers do not really know in general, Hulk says its impossible to quantify, and he might be right. After 2013, I must say I am surprised that a 6-2 scoreline is present for Alonso, even if it is full of distortion.

[Farhannn15]

mine:

 

1 - Vettel

2 - Alonso

 

some space

 

3 - Massa (before his accident)

4 - Kubica

5 - Rosberg

6 - Hamilton

7 - Button

8 - Raikonnen

9 - Heidfeld

10 - Glock

Putting Nico ahead of Lewis, Jenson and Kimi just doesn't make sense for me at all

[sennafan24]

Putting Nico ahead of Lewis, Jenson and Kimi just doesn't make sense for me at all

I found Massa at 3 to be a big dodgy as well, I know he said pre-crash, but still its over 6 years not 2 and a half.

[SonJR]

1. Alonso

2. Vettel

 

Space

 

3. Hamilton

4. Räikkönen

 

Space

 

5. Webber

6. Button

7. Rosberg

 

Space

 

8. Massa

9. Grosjean

10. Kubica

[DutchQuicksilver]

9. Massa. Would've been the worst driver to win a WDC since J. Villeneuve had Glock not moved over, but on his day was as capable as Webber of dominating a field. Cowed by Alonso and maddeningly inconsistent otherwise.

Massa won more races than Hamilton in 2008 and retired/ran into issues in high points positions more than Hamilton (for example Singapore and Hungary were definite wins for Massa). So you're basically saying Hamilton is the worst WDC since Villeneuve.

[VincentVega]

 

Like I say so many of you people only see what happened in 2008/first half of 2009 and then his rallying career and because of that underrate Kimi. Yet at the same time people dont seem to remember Hamilton's 2011 season for example and yet rate him as high as Vettel and Alonso.

Exactly. I would add Alonoso's 2010 season (Vettel then was even worse, of course). It's really interesting, that almost nobody remembers these (2010 and 2011) seasons.

Edited by VincentVega, 27 November 2013 - 17:59.

[Lord_Shaitan]

1-3

-Alonso

-Kubica

-Vettel

4. Raikkonen

5. Hamilton

6. Rosberg

7. Massa (before accident)

8. Button

9. Hulkenberg

10. Heidfeld

[zippythecat]

Massa won more races than Hamilton in 2008 and retired/ran into issues in high points positions more than Hamilton (for example Singapore and Hungary were definite wins for Massa). So you're basically saying Hamilton is the worst WDC since Villeneuve.

 

Your observation regarding the logic embedded in that statement is correct, and I do not run away from the implications.

 

Being the worst since Villeneuve isn't exactly all that bad given that the only champions between 1997 and 2008 were Mika, Schumacher, Alonso and Kimi. And yes, I rate Hamilton below all four.

 

Villeneuve in point of fact looks like the worst driver to win the WDC. There aren't actually a lot of people in the mix for that particular title.

[Rinehart]

Taking the sensible posts, there seems to be a high degree of alignment that the 5 world champions are the top 5 and SV and FA are the top 2. 

As I thought.

It's not difficult! 

[Nobody]

For ambiguitiy sake

 

1. Alonso

2. Raikkonen

3. Vettel

4. Hamilton

5. Kubica

5. Button

7. Massa

8. Rosberg

9. Heidfeld

10. Hulk