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Hamilton v Bottas Incident Brazil 2013 [split]


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#1 Coral

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:42

Well...that was going so well, Lewis was driving a fine race and was pulling away from Nico who was very slow. But what on earth was he doing when he hit Bottas? That was jusr careless and it cost Lewis what would have been a very well-deserved third in the WDC. :(  I agree with you Obi Offiah, it does seem as if there is "always something" during Lewis's race weekends.

 

However, at least Mercedes scored second in the WCC, so I suppose that is a small crumb of comfort.



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#2 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:43

A bit difficult when others keep crashing on him at interlagos lol...

On to next year  :wave:

He moved into Bottas,  look at how Seb allowed cars to unlap themselves.



#3 Boxerevo

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:45

He moved into Bottas,  look at how Seb allowed cars to unlap themselves.

This is what makes me sad... wasn't even for position.

 

No excuses,100% his fault.

 

Below Seb,below Alonso.

 

Thats why his team mates always get closer to him.


Edited by Boxerevo, 24 November 2013 - 17:47.


#4 study

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:45

He moved into Bottas,  look at how Seb allowed cars to unlap themselves.

 

I presume he wasn't even expecting a backmarker to try and over take him on the outside of a corner past the breaking point.



#5 sennafan24

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:46

That is bittersweet 

 

Lewis was racing a cracker before the Bottas incident, really out performing Rosberg. He really should have yielded. Cost himself 3rd in the Championship.



#6 jrg19

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:46

Lewis cant complain about cars un lapping, he did it to Sebastian last season.  



#7 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:47

He moved into Bottas, look at how Seb allowed cars to unlap themselves.

Seb had a solid lead, but Hamilton was actually trying to close down Alonso. Why Bottas tried the outside line I will never know. Bottas could have prevented it too, but it is so bloody annoying. You won't see any other of the top guys coming together with lapped cars.

#8 PAGATRON

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:50

Seb had a solid lead, but Hamilton was actually trying to close down Alonso. Why Bottas tried the outside line I will never know. Bottas could have prevented it too, but it is so bloody annoying. You won't see any other of the top guys coming together with lapped cars.

Perspective :up:



#9 jrg19

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:51

We saw how fair Lewis was at the start with Mark he's one of the fairest drivers.

 

Guess the word is just frustrating. 



#10 Boxerevo

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:52



I presume he wasn't even expecting a backmarker to try and over take him on the outside of a corner past the breaking point.

We have a brain for those situations.

 

Hamilton is 28 already and doesn't know how to react at different situations.

 

How many crashes that he could have avoided until he learn ? Will him ever learn this ??

 

Sometimes you just have to "give up" some battles,survive and win the war.


Edited by Boxerevo, 24 November 2013 - 18:01.


#11 hollowstar

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:53

I presume he wasn't even expecting a backmarker to try and over take him on the outside of a corner past the breaking point.

 

Exactly. Lewis took his racing line, was ahead, and Bottas wasn't racing for a position. This penalty is plain absurd. 



#12 scandyman

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:53

Maybe, just maybe Bottas was faster than Hammy at that time and tried to pass him. Penalty was 100% justified, afterall Hammy messed innocent Bottas race completely. :mad:



#13 f1supreme

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:54

Wasn't lewis's fault imo. Why is it when someone makes contact with lewis's right rear, like seb did, ppl always try to blame lewis. Lewis passed bottas, thought it was job done, but bottas carried too much speed into the corner like he was racing lewis.

#14 P123

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:55

Fair penalty for LH, he didn't have to move (although he was looking the wrong way..!).  Spoiled a good drive.  Nico a bit off the pace all race.  But thankfully Merc were able to hold on and take 2nd in WCC.



#15 study

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:55

I wonder why Button didn't get a penalty for Canada 2011?



#16 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:56

Maybe, just maybe Bottas was faster than Hammy at that time and tried to pass him. Penalty was 100% justified, afterall Hammy messed innocent Bottas race completely. :mad:


Hamilton was one of the fastest on the track at that stage of the race. I want to know whether Bottas came out of the pits into Lewis slipstream, or if Lewis had overtaken Bottas into T1 and Bottas had took him straight back. There's no way Bottas caught and passed Hamilton when Hamilton was so fast at that point.

#17 f1supreme

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:56

Maybe, just maybe Bottas was faster than Hammy at that time and tried to pass him. Penalty was 100% justified, oafterall Hammy messed innocent Bottas race completely. :mad:

bottas wasn't faster, that's why lewis got ahead of him.

#18 Jamiednm

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:56

Exactly. Lewis took his racing line, was ahead, and Bottas wasn't racing for a position. This penalty is plain absurd. 

 

Nail on head.

 

Even Bottas didn't blame Lewis.



#19 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:57

I wonder why Button didn't get a penalty for Canada 2011?

Noooo I knew somebody was going to mention this!
Canada 2011
Spa 2011
Today

3 identical situations but different outcomes :lol:

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#20 f1supreme

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:58

I wonder why Button didn't get a penalty for Canada 2011?

well we were told it was because lewis was behind, so he should have taken more care, apparently.

#21 Asterion

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:58

Nail on head.

Even Bottas didn't blame Lewis.

pretty much, but Hamilton has to share part of the blame IMO. Oh well...

Edited by Asterion, 24 November 2013 - 17:59.


#22 Zoetrope

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:58

Lewis cant complain about cars un lapping, he did it to Sebastian last season.  

I like your new avatar  :up:



#23 syolase

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 17:59

Lewis cant complain about cars un lapping, he did it to Sebastian last season.  

 

The difference is that he had the pace at the time, now Bottas only had a bit warmer tires and track position, even if he completes the moves, he wouldn't have the pace to keep that position. So it was a pretty pointless.

Btw Lewis looked into his mirrors, and just as he turned back to watch the track, Bottas made the move. Very unlucky.



#24 sennafan24

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:00

I wonder why Button didn't get a penalty for Canada 2011?

Please, lets not start bringing J.B in it again



#25 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:00

Please, lets not start bringing J.B in it again


NEVER FORGIVEN

#26 f1supreme

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:02

Just seen it again, bottas had plenty of room to avoid the contact for sure. And lewis clearly got ahead before breaking to make the corner. The penalty was harsh, because either way it's not clear cut.

#27 scandyman

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:03

Penalty was not absurd, Hammy didn't keep his line and steered towards Bottas. You can all watch the replay of the sitsuation by yourself.

 

It was almost same kind of thing what happened with Hammy and Kobayashi on Spa few years ago (2011). You could think that Hammy would have learned his lessons but he does it again. :down:



#28 study

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:04

Just like with Hulk last year if some craps going to happy, then its going to happen with Lewis, other drivers seem to just be a magnet, they let the front runners get away cleanly, Bottos had no reason to force such a move.



#29 Kingshark

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:09

Seb had a solid lead, but Hamilton was actually trying to close down Alonso. Why Bottas tried the outside line I will never know. Bottas could have prevented it too, but it is so bloody annoying. You won't see any other of the top guys coming together with lapped cars.

 



#30 trogggy

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:10

I thought the penalty was harsh - as was Massa's for that matter.  Hamilton clearly way faster than Nico today, unlucky to finish so far down.



#31 akshay380

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:10

At least the Merc is built like tank. Remember how Lewis's rear suspensions broke last year?

#32 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:12

Sky on the virtual showed Bottas had so much room to manoeuvre into, but unfortunately it didn't happen.

#33 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:13

I presume he wasn't even expecting a backmarker to try and over take him on the outside of a corner past the breaking point.

Again, when Seb & Fernando are in a similar position they manage to make it work.  Having exceptional raw speed just isn't enough.



#34 Boxerevo

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:14

Again, when Seb & Fernando are in a similar position they manage to make it work.  Having exceptional raw speed just isn't enough.

Is the first Law of a complete driver : Protect your car.

 

Ah but i wll be a p* driving like this... so calculate ! if is worthy the risk.


Edited by Boxerevo, 24 November 2013 - 18:16.


#35 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:15

Seb had a solid lead, but Hamilton was actually trying to close down Alonso. Why Bottas tried the outside line I will never know. Bottas could have prevented it too, but it is so bloody annoying. You won't see any other of the top guys coming together with lapped cars.

I agree, but what he did was unnecessary.  How much time would he have lost by showing Bottas' Williams a foot more respect?



#36 study

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:15

Again, when Seb & Fernando are in a similar position they manage to make it work.  Having exceptional raw speed just isn't enough.

 

and so does lewis, but it takes two in this instance.



#37 fastwriter

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:15

Ridiculous to give Bottas part of the blame. Hamilton has to know that Bottas is on his outside, so he cannot swerve to the right as he did. Clearly caused a collision, deserved penalty.



#38 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:18

Just checked the data. Bottas was on brand new tyres and was setting purple sectors, personal best laps etc etc. Was faster than Hamilton at that point way down in P17

#39 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:19

We have a brain for those situations.

 

Hamilton is 28 already and doesn't know how to react at different situations.

 

How many crashes that he could have avoided until he learn ? Will him ever learn this ??

 

Sometimes you just have to "give up" some battles,survive and win the war.

:up: The thing is, he didn't even need to give up the position, he had the inside line and Bottas really wasn't in a favourable position to go around the outside.  Bottas took an unnecessary risk also as he wasn't racing Lewis, but he is far less experienced so can be forgiven that naivety.



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#40 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:20

I agree, but what he did was unnecessary. How much time would he have lost by showing Bottas' Williams a foot more respect?

But how much time does Bottas need to gain way down in P17?

#41 nookie

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:20

lewis obviously got the penalty not because of what he did but because bottas retired. very verry disapointing penalty.



#42 Gorma

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:21

But how much time does Bottas need to gain way down in P17?

So lapped cars should stop racing?



#43 jrg19

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:21

I thought the fact Bottas retired played a part, FIA feel the need to punish someone when a car goes off.



#44 Boxerevo

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:24

But how much time does Bottas need to gain way down in P17?

Tom,you are a genuine guy and i respect your opinion,we are Lewis fans.

 

What we are saying is for the good of our Lewis,if people close to him share your view and he doesn't see it like an avoidable situation...you will never learn PRUDENCE.

 

Its not about who was wrong or right,if i am in a situation that I have the power to avoid a stupid crash,I must avoid it.


Edited by Boxerevo, 24 November 2013 - 18:26.


#45 Jvr

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:24

Yes, there was some room on the right of Bottas but he did not move to make the collision, Lewis did and he had even more room to avoid the contact. Penalty is for causing an avoidable collision and that is exactly what Lewis did.

#46 mlsnoopy

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:25

So lapped cars should stop racing?

 

No lapped cars are under blue flags. They need to be careful no to crash into faster cars. 



#47 Gorma

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:26

No lapped cars are under blue flags. They need to be careful no to crash into faster cars. 

Well in this case Lewis was the slower car.



#48 mlsnoopy

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:28

Well in this case Lewis was the slower car.

 

What. Wasn't Bottas lapped. How do you lap a faster car.



#49 Gorma

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:30

What. Wasn't Bottas lapped. How do you lap a faster car.

picard-facepalm_reasonably_small.jpg



#50 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 18:33

Tom,you are a genuine guy and i respect your opinion,we are Lewis fans.

 

What we are saying is for the good of our Lewis,if people close to him share your view and he doesn't see it like an avoidable situation...you will never learn PRUDENCE.

 

Its not about who was wrong or right,if i am in a situation that I have the power to avoid a stupid crash,I must avoid it.

Exactly.  A few years ago I was hit by a car at a zebra crossing, fortunately I was completely unhurt.  I saw the car at a distance travelling quite slowly, so I crossed fully expecting the driver to slow down (he had plenty of time), but he wasn't paying attention and hit me.  Now this was completely the drivers fault, however I could have been more careful and waited for the driver to bring the car to a halt, which is what I do now given the same circumstances.