121 replies to this topic

[GAZF1nut]

 

My pecking order after the first race

Mercedes

Red Bull(+0.9s)

McLaren(+1.1s)

Williams(1.3s)

Ferrari(1.6s)

All the following cars are 2.0s and even much more down pace wise

Toro Rosso

Sauber.

Lotus

Caterham

Marussia

After the Malaysian GP some things will change.

Mercedes still first, but Red bull will find 0.9s/lap because they will run their engine unit on about 85-90%, soo almost full power. They were running on about 60% of power in Australia, they were 1s/per lap slower then the Mercedes, on my calculation however 10% of power is worth about 0.3 per lap.

Williams and Ferrari will close the gap to Ferrari.

Other cars will struggle, Lotus will find about 1 second on the competition.

Qualy

1. Red bull

2. Mercedes

3. Mclaren

4. Ferrari

5. Williams with better race pace then Ferrari

Cheers guys...

 

I thought RB were running with 100% power.

[noikeee]

To me Australia looked like

 

1. Mercedes

2. Williams

3. McLaren

4. Red Bull

5. Ferrari

6. Force India

7. Toro Rosso

8. Lotus

9. Sauber

10. Caterham

11. Marussia

 

Hard to place Red Bull because there's a few unknowns. From what we saw I think Ricciardo was marginally slower than Magnussen and Button, but you'd think Vettel could be quicker than Ricciardo. On the other hand, was that car running a little quicker than it should because of its legality? So those two factors kind of even each other out.

 

But then I think Red Bull and all other Renault teams have more to gain than the others. Specially Lotus they looked able to unlock some quick laps midrace and that's why I put them above Sauber, I think they've got more potential than anyone else because they've not been able to optimize their car at all. So what we see at Malaysia may resemble this pecking order closely but give it 5 or 6 more races and it'll be different.

[Group B]

RedBull175, where do you get your info re: Red Bull running their engine at only 60% in Australia? I find that almost impossible to believe.

 

That's because it is.

[Owen]

@Jamesallenonf1: Analysis: Who’s got the real speed after Melbourne season opener http://t.co/A2hvQtvUCq

[TF110]

Its going to be a toss up between McLaren, Ferrari, Williams and RB. I think Force India may be there but their development wont be on the same level. No one will touch Mercedes for a few races at least imo. Then we may see Lotus make a resurgence. I think Caterham are nearly as fast as Sauber with Kobayashi and Marussia may be there. STR are between the Sauber--Force India level.

[PIJAMAS]

Mercedes

 

Williams

Red Bull, Mclaren

 

Ferrari

Toro Rosso, FI

 

Sauber

Lotus

 

Marussia, Caterham

 

Different track layout as Sepang can change somethings

[HoldenRT]

It's clear Renault teams are running underpowered right now.  How much so, is up for debate depending on who you want to believe or not.  If you took what was said as gospel a month or so back, RBR would be doomed until Silverstone.. and already they qualified on the front row in Melbourne.  And had a reasonable pace in the race.  Definitely nowhere near 100% power.. but the exact number.. who knows.  It will gradually increase with time, as will the Ferrari.

 

We can watch the races and find out.

 

Pretty much agree with the pecking order, except I think people overrate Williams a tad.  And don't think Ferrari are as bad as they appeared.  By the second and third races, things will start to be more clear.

 

We can all agree Mercedes are clearly infront and have the best overall combo of chassis and engine.  Williams and McLaren look good but are sort of being flattered by the engine at the moment, because it's a big gap to Mercedes while using the same engine.  They'll need to upgrade their car a lot.. to maintain position.. as opposed to RBR and Ferrari, which will most likely drift closer and closer to the front as they unlock more on the engine side.  Redbull and Merc clearly have the 2 best chassis IMO.

[Seanspeed]

RedBull175, where do you get your info re: Red Bull running their engine at only 60% in Australia? I find that almost impossible to believe.

Somebody in the 'Renault engine is catastrophic' thread was pretending he was an insider and making up claims that said as much.

Anyways, for Australia, I'd have put it

Mercedes

Williams
Red Bull/McLaren
Ferrari

Force India
Toro Rosso

Sauber

Caterham
Marussia

Lotus is still a huge question mark as they aren't actually ready to race yet.

Edited by Seanspeed, 22 March 2014 - 11:21.

[Jamiednm]

Considering Rosbergs 25 second winning margin after his easy cruise to victory, his engine was only running at 50%

...and still trounced everyone else.

[Jimisgod]

To me Australia looked like

1. Mercedes
2. Williams
3. McLaren
4. Red Bull
5. Ferrari
6. Force India
7. Toro Rosso
8. Lotus
9. Sauber
10. Caterham
11. Marussia

Hard to place Red Bull because there's a few unknowns. From what we saw I think Ricciardo was marginally slower than Magnussen and Button, but you'd think Vettel could be quicker than Ricciardo. On the other hand, was that car running a little quicker than it should because of its legality? So those two factors kind of even each other out.

But then I think Red Bull and all other Renault teams have more to gain than the others. Specially Lotus they looked able to unlock some quick laps midrace and that's why I put them above Sauber, I think they've got more potential than anyone else because they've not been able to optimize their car at all. So what we see at Malaysia may resemble this pecking order closely but give it 5 or 6 more races and it'll be different.

No more needs to be said. I get the feeling the Williams drivers may squander the potential championship winning car... like they did in 2001-03.

[f1RacingForever]

I expect the pecking order to change alot once some teams improve their power units. Ferrari will get better no doubt, Redbull are a sleeping Giant with their chassis. Mercedes powered teams will have less room for improvements due to the PU being more developed. Redbull scare me the most. If anyone can overtake Mercedes then they are my pick.

[bonjon1979a]

It's clear Renault teams are running underpowered right now. How much so, is up for debate depending on who you want to believe or not. If you took what was said as gospel a month or so back, RBR would be doomed until Silverstone.. and already they qualified on the front row in Melbourne. And had a reasonable pace in the race. Definitely nowhere near 100% power.. but the exact number.. who knows. It will gradually increase with time, as will the Ferrari.

We can watch the races and find out.

Pretty much agree with the pecking order, except I think people overrate Williams a tad. And don't think Ferrari are as bad as they appeared. By the second and third races, things will start to be more clear.

We can all agree Mercedes are clearly infront and have the best overall combo of chassis and engine. Williams and McLaren look good but are sort of being flattered by the engine at the moment, because it's a big gap to Mercedes while using the same engine. They'll need to upgrade their car a lot.. to maintain position.. as opposed to RBR and Ferrari, which will most likely drift closer and closer to the front as they unlock more on the engine side. Redbull and Merc clearly have the 2 best chassis IMO.

Merc aren't running at full power either, they too will be unlocking more from their engine.

[Petroltorque]

The pecking order can be divided into Q3 teams; Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull, Williams, STR. Q2 teams; Ferrari, FI, Lotus, . Q3 teams; Sauber, Caterham, Marussia. The pecking order will evolve over the upcoming races as manufacturers improve their engine effiency. At present Mercedes is leading simply because they are extracting more from the ERS, particularly on the straights.

[jjcale]

Post MAL:

 

Merc.......Redbull, Ferrari, .... Force India, Macca/Williams ..... STR, Sauber... Lotus/Caterham...Marussia         

Edited by jjcale, 31 March 2014 - 16:54.

[noikeee]

Malaysia looked very different from Australia which surprised me a bit. Red Bull got a jump in performance into clearly 2nd best team. Williams were bizarrely much less impressive, maybe still quicker than McLaren and hindered by their poor qualifying performance but clearly not 2nd best as Bottas' race pace looked like in Australia. Hulkenberg a level above the Maccas and Williamses and about on par with the Ferraris - not sure how much was the driver how much was the car as we didn't see Perez.

 

I believe Sepang is a much more representative track than Melbourne and teams with more downforce do better at Sepang than at Melbourne. With this in mind, I think Red Bull are well within the fight as they've got the most planted car and if the Renault PU can catch up a bit of ground to Mercedes later on, it's going to be a Merc vs Red Bull for the title year. Nobody else seems to be even anywhere near the ballpark. Williams better do a great job in Bahrain which is a bit less about downforce and still a lot about engine power with all those straights, because I'm pretty sure they're going to be outdeveloped by at least Ferrari and McLaren and lose the train later on. I think Bahrain's their best shot at a podium in the dry this year.

 

So for now I'll change my ranking to

 

1. Mercedes

2. Red Bull

3/4/5/6. Ferrari/Force India/McLaren/Williams depending on the track

7. Toro Rosso

8. Lotus

9. Sauber

10. Caterham

11. Marussia

Edited by noikeee, 31 March 2014 - 12:01.

[Crikeyf1]

I expect the pecking order to change alot once some teams improve their power units. Ferrari will get better no doubt, Redbull are a sleeping Giant with their chassis. Mercedes powered teams will have less room for improvements due to the PU being more developed. Redbull scare me the most. If anyone can overtake Mercedes then they are my pick.

 

I agree with you that there is a lot of room for improvement on the RBR. That being said I cant see them catching Mercedes, that car is too strong and they're not even pushing to their full extent yet. Hamilton had about a second in hand during the Grand Prix yesterday, a second is a lot of time to find for RBR...

[SCUDmissile]

1. Mercedes

2. RedBull

3. GP2

4. All other F1 cars.

[Kobasmashi]

While Red Bull do look very good at the moment, we still haven't seen Mercedes really stretched yet. I think they still have time in their pocket.

[AnR]

Well, first race wos won by 25 sec by Rosberg, this one by 25 sec by Lewis, what more is it to it?

 

After that, perhaps Red Bull, or Ferrari, Williams?

[Kobasmashi]

Well, first race wos won by 25 sec by Rosberg, this one by 25 sec by Lewis, what more is it to it?

Well Rosberg's fastest lap in Oz was set with a 2/3 of a tank of fuel on board, and only Rosberg came within a second of Lewis' fastest lap in Malaysia. I think if Merc maxed it (Hamilton had the best fuel consumption of the top 10) they would finish more than 25 seconds ahead of Red Bull.

[Viryfan]

Malaysia looked very different from Australia which surprised me a bit. Red Bull got a jump in performance into clearly 2nd best team. Williams were bizarrely much less impressive, maybe still quicker than McLaren and hindered by their poor qualifying performance but clearly not 2nd best as Bottas' race pace looked like in Australia. Hulkenberg a level above the Maccas and Williamses and about on par with the Ferraris - not sure how much was the driver how much was the car as we didn't see Perez.

 

I believe Sepang is a much more representative track than Melbourne and teams with more downforce do better at Sepang than at Melbourne. With this in mind, I think Red Bull are well within the fight as they've got the most planted car and if the Renault PU can catch up a bit of ground to Mercedes later on, it's going to be a Merc vs Red Bull for the title year. Nobody else seems to be even anywhere near the ballpark. Williams better do a great job in Bahrain which is a bit less about downforce and still a lot about engine power with all those straights, because I'm pretty sure they're going to be outdeveloped by at least Ferrari and McLaren and lose the train later on. I think Bahrain's their best shot at a podium in the dry this year.

 

So for now I'll change my ranking to

 

1. Mercedes

2. Red Bull

3/4/5/6. Ferrari/Force India/McLaren/Williams depending on the track

7. Toro Rosso

8. Lotus

9. Sauber

10. Caterham

11. Marussia

 

I think on the dry Lotus is on par with Toro Rosso because RoGro would have  finished ahead of Kvyaat if he didn't have floor issues on last 10 laps.

 

Also we should note that Lotus is lower on revs compared to any onther team in the Renault camp at the moment.

[Kingshark]

Tier 1

Mercedes

 

Tier 2

Red Bull

 

Tier 3

Ferrari, Force India, McLaren and Williams

 

Tier 4

Toro Rosso

 

Tier 5

Lotus and Sauber

 

Tier 6

Marussia and Caterham