53 replies to this topic

[chrcol]

Ok so a comment by brundle during race was the drivers were having to learn the track in the race due to lack of free practice, and a similiar question was raised last year.

 

Is it better to scrap free practice, and possibly replace free practice with testing sessions after the race?

 

Meaning cars arent all tuned up, and we all have no idea of race pace until the race.

[EthanM]

I 've been saying for a while that Friday running should be scrapped. Run a longer single practice session on Saturday morning, Quali in the afternoon, race on Sunday and have a test day on Monday after the gp.

 

Though I am sure contractually it can't be done.

[DS27]

Yes - saves loads of money and will lead to more variation in the races.

[Clatter]

I don't think so much should be made of what happened over this weekend.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

It'd be 1 way to make it cheaper by making it a 2 day event. But overall......there's positives and negatives to the idea.

[Andrew Hope]

That's the most awful idea I've ever heard. It's bad enough the FIA keeps coming up with ridiculous testing bans. If anything the practice sessions should be longer, 3 hours each. I'd even love if after every 5th GP there was a 2-day test at a neutral circuit, Estoril and Imola and the like. Everyone moans about artificiality like DRS, but banning practice would be exactly that.

 

I don't see hockey or football banning teams from practicing just because they might get too good, i.e. doing to perfection the entire reason we play sports in the first place. It's up to other teams to beat Red Bull, not up to the FIA to ban people from getting too familiar with their cars in the hopes Red Bull will falter.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 26 November 2013 - 20:04.

[Zava]

I don't think so much should be made of what happened over this weekend.

 that's what happened after canada 2010, and look what that brought us...

[chrcol]

That's the most awful idea I've ever heard. It's bad enough the FIA keeps coming up with ridiculous testing bans. If anything the practice sessions should be longer, 3 hours each. I'd even love if after every 5th GP there was a 2-day test at a neutral circuit, Estoril and Imola and the like. Everyone moans about artificiality like DRS, but banning practice would be exactly that.

 

I don't see hockey or football banning teams from practicing just because they might get too good, i.e. doing to perfection the entire reason we play sports in the first place. It's up to other teams to beat Red Bull, not up to the FIA to ban people from getting too familiar with their cars in the hopes Red Bull will falter.

 

did you miss the bit where I said add the sessions after the race instead for testing? could even be used for young driver tests as well.

 

I think having 3 practice sessions before the race doesnt help the sport.

Edited by chrcol, 26 November 2013 - 20:07.

[BlackCat]

scrap quali. four practice sessions, best lap counts for grid - just like it was.

[Sardukar]

The racing in brazil was good, but not because of the lack of dry running.

 

- The track was green.

- Teams were running different setups for wet or dry.

- The starting grid was jumbled due to the wet qualy and some teams gambling on setups.

[Otaku]

scrap quali. four practice sessions, best lap counts for grid - just like it was.

 

Like it was? When?

[SpaceHorseParty]

Scrap practice sessions and quali. Grid positions are picked at random, with Maldonado always in the back with malfunctioning brakes. This should make things interesting.

[F.M.]

Didn't they just lengthen FP1?

[Arn]

If testing and money is an issue, then why not just lenghten FP1 and FP2 with 3 hours each, and allow teams to put any driver in the cars?

 

Wouldn't increase cost by much and make it possible to test new parts often, and let the young drivers get car and track experience. They could do the donkey work, and the regular drivers could verify the results at the same time they practice for the main events on saturday and sunday. Would also make fridays more interesting for the media and fans. More drivers to follow and parts to spy.

Edited by Arn, 26 November 2013 - 21:17.

[scheivlak]

Like it was? When?

From 1950 until the start of the 1980 season!

[Anderis]

If testing and money is an issue, then why not just lenghten FP1 and FP2 with 3 hours each, and allow teams to put any driver in the cars?

Because on many circuits there are other racing series at the same weekend together with F1 and they need their time for running as well.

[Arn]

Because on many circuits there are other racing series at the same weekend together with F1 and they need their time for running as well.

I am aware of that, and of course it would require some rescheduling, but it is a matter of prioritizing.

[noikeee]

This would make rookies suck more, because they'd only have the time to learn the tracks after the race. So teams would have yet another reason to stick with experience (which is already at a premium at the moment). I get the idea which is to have the teams with a less fine-tuned setup so more unpredictability in the GP, but no.

[Fastcake]

That's the most awful idea I've ever heard. It's bad enough the FIA keeps coming up with ridiculous testing bans. If anything the practice sessions should be longer, 3 hours each. I'd even love if after every 5th GP there was a 2-day test at a neutral circuit, Estoril and Imola and the like. Everyone moans about artificiality like DRS, but banning practice would be exactly that.

 

I don't see hockey or football banning teams from practicing just because they might get too good, i.e. doing to perfection the entire reason we play sports in the first place. It's up to other teams to beat Red Bull, not up to the FIA to ban people from getting too familiar with their cars in the hopes Red Bull will falter.

 

The testing ban has nothing to do with competitiveness. But yes this is a ridiculous idea. The last thing F1 needs is even less running for the spectators to watch; given how much it costs to watch thesedays we deserve all the action possible.

[P123]

The traditional circuits need the revenue from the paying spectators on Fridays.

[EthanM]

The traditional circuits need the revenue from the paying spectators on Fridays.

 

yeah but swapping the practice sessions to monday wouldn't affect them would it? It would just remove the 3 hours teams have to fine tune their setups and turn it into a chance for the teams to evaluate new parts or young drivers.

 

Like I said, i doubt it could be done contractually but the principle of giving teams less track time before the event sits well with me. I m not saying delete the tracktime, I am saying stop it from influencing the race.

[turssi]

They should just open the track for three ours on Saturday. Free for all for first two hours and qualifying for the last hour.

[SB]

2 hours testing in Fridays for developments. With controlled tire compound (same super hard durable compound for whole year) and only rookie or test drivers eligible to drive. Newbies could learn the track while the teams could try the new parts.

 

30 mins warm up session in Sat morning for race preparation. Regular drivers test with the normal race tires for final fine tune works. And then move to Sat afternoon for normal qualifying session.

[OvDrone]

I see that the post-season addict posts are popping up. Time to get the cyanide pills for bedtime.

[InSearchOfThe]

What if saturday is a washout? How would the grid get set? I liked the quailifing of 1 car at a time. No blocking penalties, a clean track to post a time etc.I know,Bernie thought that was too boring. I disagree.Sometimes logic and practicality in F1 seem to be at different ends of the spectrum.

Edited by InSearchOfThe, 27 November 2013 - 02:37.

[Jimisgod]

scrap quali. four practice sessions, best lap counts for grid - just like it was.

I'm too busy to watch 4 giant practice sessions. And the 60 minutes of quali is often better than the race - see Belgium.

[seahawk]

Make FP1 and FP2 testing sessions which do not count for engines and gearboxes over the season and also does not count towards your tire options for the race weekend. Maby have a testing tire for those or allow only to use the hard tires. More running on fridays would be could for people going to the track that day.

[Kristian]

I think on the basis of one weekend, it wouldn't work in other tracks and other conditions. 

 

Remember when Suzuka qualifying was typhooned and moved to Sunday, and everyone said how amazing that was? It became the rules for the next season and failed miserably, so much it was changed mid-year. 

[Jackmancer]

Or, combine FP1 and FP2, make it rookies only. Although, even then, Mclaren would field Garry Paffet, which isn't a rookie really.

[Lights]

Like Kristian also noted, it likely won't create more variation. 

 

Something that happened once and was great doesn't mean it always works that way. Teams are sort of good at adapting.

 

After Canada 2010 everyone praised the race because of the rapid tire degradation. Do I have to finish this analogy?

[Kristian]

Or, combine FP1 and FP2, make it rookies only. Although, even then, Mclaren would field Garry Paffet, which isn't a rookie really.

 

I think certainly there should be a rookie session on Fridays - maybe FP1, with a special tyre allocation so they have to be used. 

 

Then the F1 drivers for FP2. Don't forget that if people are forking out £300 for a race weekend seat, they will want to see F1 stars in action! But as FP1 is usually the quieter one, then making it a young drivers test session will liven it up, and also solve the problems of lack of testing for evaluating talent. Maybe make a rule that a driver can only do a maximum of 8 sessions per season will mean more will get the chance. 

[Rinehart]

Yes. Friday should be a media day. Saturday should be 1hr practice and qual, Sunday the race. Monday should be a test day where only young drivers can run before 12pm. 

This would solve the problems that (1) teams don't always run on Fridays due to tyres (2) form would be less predictable (3) young drivers would get plenty of mileage (4) teams/Pirelli could test cost effectively.

[johnmhinds]

 

Is it better to scrap free practice, and possibly replace free practice with testing sessions after the race?

 

Meaning cars arent all tuned up, and we all have no idea of race pace until the race.

Why would you want practice sessions on a Monday when no fans will be able to watch?

Edited by johnmhinds, 27 November 2013 - 10:01.

[tifosiMac]

I 've been saying for a while that Friday running should be scrapped. Run a longer single practice session on Saturday morning, Quali in the afternoon, race on Sunday and have a test day on Monday after the gp.

I think they would have to reduce the ticket prices for fans if they were to do that. The practice sessions build the anticipation for the grand event, that being the race. I doubt you'll get many fans wanting to book Monday's off work to hang around to see a few cars on track after the excitement of Sunday. I could be wrong but I think I would simply buy a Sunday ticket. I do think Testing should be re-introduced though. I think we'd have a more competitive field again.

[DampMongoose]

I'd love for it to go back to several practice sessions over a few days of an hour or so with the fastest times over any session deciding the grid.  It would perhaps introduce some variation in the grids too depending on weather and cars performing differently in a variety of conditions.

[Rinehart]

If people can take a Friday off, they can take a Monday off.

Fill the friday with an undercard of quality racing/entertainment especially getting closer to the teams and chuck in the Monday test day for free on a "4 day ticket" (circuits can afford to do this as it will drive increased revenue from the merchandise/food licensing) and I don't think many people will complain that the value is worse than it is now. It would also be possible to televise the test days with all the race weekend infrastructure there. 

 

Everyone's a winner.

[Cesc]

What seems clear to me is that the two sessions on friday are maybe too much for a single gp. I think that a 90min session on Friday would be enough, and then a completely free testing day the next Monday could be more than reasonable in terms of cost balancing.

Edited by Cesc, 27 November 2013 - 10:27.

[Jejking]

At first glance Brundles idea seemed smart, but it isn't really when you throw Pirelli tyres in the mix. I believe we were lucky to not see a truckload of punctures, of which I'm certain it would have happened with the 2013 A-spec tyres. Remember, Silverstone happened with dry running and well-balanced setups.

 

I'm also highly supportive of the fact that F1 should get rid of a part of its computing power and go more (not completely) back to the days where drivers had an influence on car setup with their feel. Now the computer says brake later here, go earlier full power over there, etc. That's disappointing and taunting the skill that F1 drivers should have.

Edited by Jejking, 27 November 2013 - 10:33.

[Buttoneer]

The idea of turning Mondays into testing days hase been suggested before.  It makes sense because the teams have all the cars and equipment there, have loads of data from the race, and can run a suite of tests and measurements to better understand their cars.  I could not support this coming at the expense of the rest of the weekend running.  Having F1 cars on the circuit throughout Friday and Saturday keeps people at the circuit and guarantees audience for the other racing series which enjoy the added visibility F1 brings.

 

I can see benefits of having some of the Friday running extended or perhaps freed up a little or even having one of them designated a third driver session, but again, not at the expense of the other racing series.

[spacekid]

Yes. Make the 'pinnacle of motorsport' be a completely random affair with poorly set up cars.

 

On second thoughts, maybe not.

 

The problem is, F1 being done 'well' does run the risk of being 'boring'. For me the excitement used to come from watching various teams/drivers doing F1 well and hey presto, for me that was wonderful entertainment. Sometimes it would be great, sometimes not so great, but it felt real.

 

Now the focus for the fans seems to be to make things as 'exciting' as possible by forcing all concerned to do F1 badly. Hence my love affair with F1 is now mostly contained to making comments on a forum like an ex checking out a facebook account, rather than actually enjoying races.

[Rinehart]

Yes. Make the 'pinnacle of motorsport' be a completely random affair with poorly set up cars.

 

On second thoughts, maybe not.

 

The problem is, F1 being done 'well' does run the risk of being 'boring'. For me the excitement used to come from watching various teams/drivers doing F1 well and hey presto, for me that was wonderful entertainment. Sometimes it would be great, sometimes not so great, but it felt real.

 

Now the focus for the fans seems to be to make things as 'exciting' as possible by forcing all concerned to do F1 badly. Hence my love affair with F1 is now mostly contained to making comments on a forum like an ex checking out a facebook account, rather than actually enjoying races.

I'm sure I've been watching F1 as long as you and I don't see it as artificially making it more exciting, I see it as taking some of the (technology related) causes of the status quo out. 

 

You seem to be reminiscing the old days of F1 as much purer. Well back in 1990 they hadn't lapped Barcelona 30,000 times before the race in the simulator, or digested a zillion terabytes of practice data before qualifying. 

 

All I'm saying, via a change to the weekend format, is to return some of that insecurity - the precise conditions they were under in the days you declare as "the pinnacle". 

[ViMaMo]

I see that the post-season addict posts are popping up. Time to get the cyanide pills for bedtime.

 

Cyanide the threads, thats better. 

[spacekid]

I'm sure I've been watching F1 as long as you and I don't see it as artificially making it more exciting, I see it as taking some of the (technology related) causes of the status quo out. 

 

You seem to be reminiscing the old days of F1 as much purer. Well back in 1990 they hadn't lapped Barcelona 30,000 times before the race in the simulator, or digested a zillion terabytes of practice data before qualifying. 

 

All I'm saying, via a change to the weekend format, is to return some of that insecurity - the precise conditions they were under in the days you declare as "the pinnacle". 

 

It isn't a competition for who's been watching the longest. I'm just commenting on how my enjoyment of the sport has changed with the approach to 'the show'. At least I haven't seen the phrase 'spice things up' used in this thread.

 

I completely agree about the over reliance of computer simulations etc, and certain technologies taking away from that. But there are other ways to address these issues than just having the cars line up on the grid randomly prepared. That just seems like applying amateurism to me as a sticking plaster to a wider problem.

 

I personally like the MotoGP way of riders controlling their own races. No one tells them to lift in turn 3 and brake later in turn 7, but the purity of setting up a machine and racing it hard isn't diluted. Scrapping practise doesn't do anything to remove the 'technology related causes', it just means they can't be used as effectively during a race weekend.

 

I also don't remember declaring any certain days as 'the pinnacle'. I referred to F1 as the self proclaimed 'pinnacle of motorsport'.

[RB1]

I don't think the practice sessions should be scrapped but I would like the teams to be forced into using two young drivers on Friday morning. Just to give them more experience at the wheel of an F1 car.

[f1supreme]

scrap quali. four practice sessions, best lap counts for grid - just like it was.

that would still very much be just like quali, Except 4 instead of 3 sessions. I think things are fine as is, But teams should get more tyres.

[SonJR]

I really don't care about all the set-up blahblahblah. It doesn't diminish the spectacle (in fact, it probably increases it) if there's guys driving out there with a less than perfect set-up and struggling with under- or oversteer. Far more interesting if drivers 'find' their own extra tenths (like Alonso's six) in the car by driving hard rather than tweaking the front wring an extra mm to find 1/1000.

[DampMongoose]

that would still very much be just like quali, Except 4 instead of 3 sessions. I think things are fine as is, But teams should get more tyres.

 

Not quite sure how you can say that there is any similarity between the current 1 session knockout basis of qualifying and having 4 different practice sessions over a couple of days, where you are free to set qualifying times in any of them.

[redreni]

If you don't have data and driver feedback from actual running, you have to choose your setup based on simulator data, data from previous years and educated guesswork. It's the guesswork element that worries me - do we really want driver and car performance in qualifying and the race to be based as much on luck as on judgement?

[bourbon]

Yeah no dry running really shook up the qualifying - it was like reverse grid!!!!!!!! 

 

oh wait...

[DutchQuicksilver]

Will never happen. FIA won't allow untested ontrack tyres. The risk of safety issues is just too high.