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Permanent Car Numbers


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Poll: Permanent Car Numbers (316 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you change about the assignment of car numbers in F1?

  1. Assign numbers to teams (66 votes [20.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.89%

  2. Assign numbers to drivers (156 votes [49.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.37%

  3. No change / Keep it the same (94 votes [29.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.75%

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#1 Markn93

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:55

#f1 considering to go with permanent car numbers for each driver. marketing will love this!

 

(Chief editor motorsport-total.com)

 

Interesting idea, and even if it doesn't come to fruition, hypothetically what numbers do you think people would have?


Edited by Victor_RO, 03 December 2013 - 12:43.


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#2 steferrari

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:58

Ferrari 27 & 28...  :love:



#3 Markn93

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:00

Interesting you assumed it was team based. I had assumed it was driver oriented, as in a driver would carry a number over from team to team over the course of his career. 



#4 pacificquay

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:06

Ferrari 27 & 28...  :love:

 

Funny how Ferrari fans romanticise the numbers they had during the least successful period of their history!



#5 F.M.

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:06

Would be nice, same as MotoGP with the WDC having the option of carrying the nr. 1

#6 Anja

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:11

Cool. Every small step for F1 to become a little less 'sterile' is a good thing.


Edited by Anja, 28 November 2013 - 13:11.


#7 GhostR

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:12

Interesting you assumed it was team based. I had assumed it was driver oriented, as in a driver would carry a number over from team to team over the course of his career. 

 

That's the way I'd read it as well. Similar to how in MotoGP Rossi has always been 46. Stoner was 27. 

 

Actually ... just about every other racing series (NASCAR is the other standout, where the number usually belongs to the team/car) in the world works that way (assuming the driver involved wants to). Peter Brock always carried 05 in Aussie tourers. Some series have numbers that now can't be used, as they're associated with drivers who died on track (99 was retired after Moore's death, but reinstated after unification; there's a few unusable numbers in MotoGP as well (eg Simoncelli's number)).



#8 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:15

As long as the reigning WDC carries the No.1.

 

I'd love to revive the classics. Williams 5&6, Ferrari 27&28, Lotus 11&12, McLaren 7&8.



#9 jrg19

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:15

22 for Lewis please.

#10 Buttoneer

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:15

I think this is a superb idea.

 

That's why Bernie will never allow it.



#11 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:21

I seem to remember the last time this was seriously suggested was after 2001. IIRC the plan was to go back to the old system where the numbers didn't change unless you had the WDC in your team and then you'd get 1&2. Most teams objected because Sauber had finished an unusually good 4th and would then claim the rather desireable 7&8 "forever" so no agreement was reached.

 

Remember that the old system was basically the 1973 WCC, chopped and changed around as drivers won the WDC, switched teams and of course teams came and went and the others filled the gaps.



#12 Spillage

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:22

Don't really mind this, it works well in NASCAR and MotoGP.

 

I'd really like to see driver numbers correlating to where they finished in the previous season's WDC, rather than the previous year's WCC. So it'd be Vettel #1, Alonso #2, Hamilton #3 and then the rookies would take the highest numbers on the grid based on the position of their team in the previous year's WCC. That'd give a truer sense of the pecking order in my opinion.



#13 DanardiF1

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:25

So who would have what number? Would this be from 1-99 or just the number of cars? 13 included?



#14 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:26

Don't really mind this, it works well in NASCAR and MotoGP.

 

I'd really like to see driver numbers correlating to where they finished in the previous season's WDC, rather than the previous year's WCC. So it'd be Vettel #1, Alonso #2, Hamilton #3 and then the rookies would take the highest numbers on the grid based on the position of their team in the previous year's WCC. That'd give a truer sense of the pecking order in my opinion.

 

That's the system used in BTCC, for the top ten drivers, most of the time.



#15 EvanRainer

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:26

To be honest, I never cared about this but on the other hand...I have to admit that when I think about it, I would have loved to have seen Senna retain #12 throughout his career.



#16 ForeverF1

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:28

Can't see that it makes much difference until the numbers are brought back to prominence.



#17 EvanRainer

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:28

That's the system used in BTCC, for the top ten drivers, most of the time.

 

That's how it used to be in MotoGP as well if I remember correctly. Not only the champion getting number 1 but the rest of the order having (the option? not sure) their numbers as well. At least a lot more riders would take up on the option.



#18 NexusIcon

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:29

It's a marketing dream and will therefore never happen. Good idea though.

#19 EvanRainer

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:30

Can't see that it makes much difference until the numbers are brought back to prominence.

 

Ain't that the truth. I remember in the 80s the number on the car actually being the first thing I'd instinctively look for to identify a driver. (though that would be a bit silly now)



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#20 GhostR

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:31

I think my preferred system would be:

 

1-10 assigned to the drivers finishing 1-10 in previous year. Those drivers have the option of refusing the assigned number and instead choosing their own number - the highest placed finisher having priority when choosing.

 

All other drivers then choose numbers (if a number was previously used by a driver that driver gets first refusal, but otherwise first come, first served basis) from any available remaining numbers (say, 11-99 plus any refused 1-10 numbers).


Edited by GhostR, 28 November 2013 - 13:33.


#21 SenorSjon

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:34

Aston Martin used 007 in LeMans. :p

 

There is a topic somewhere where someone numbered through the time up until last year. You got some weird numberings now.

 

Some background:

http://stason.org/TU...ml#.UpdFKeJsN3s

 

No number 13, the reassigning of numbers, and many othere trivia:

http://www.mat.uc.pt...f1/numbers.html

 

In 1996 it al changed, Tyrrel lost their 3&4 which they carried for 22 years. Also, due to Hill moving to Arrows, Ferrari could have end up with 16 and 17 until 2001.



#22 RB1

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:39

Don't really mind this, it works well in NASCAR and MotoGP.

 

I'd really like to see driver numbers correlating to where they finished in the previous season's WDC, rather than the previous year's WCC. So it'd be Vettel #1, Alonso #2, Hamilton #3 and then the rookies would take the highest numbers on the grid based on the position of their team in the previous year's WCC. That'd give a truer sense of the pecking order in my opinion.

 

I like this idea better. I'm not a big fan of the permanent no. for each driver. When did they change the numbering system? 1995? 1996?



#23 rockdude101

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:41

It's too difficult to implent, in my opinion.

 

The moment you create numbers - how do you allocate them? Who gets first pick?

 

Then there's trawling back through history to start picking out which numbers have to be historically locked - #2 for Ayrton, #32 for Roland, #27 for Gilles etc...

 

I think it's just better to leave them as they are.



#24 johnmhinds

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:44

Very little point to the idea when the teams don't seem to care about showing off the numbers.

 

RedBull have had 1-2 and they don't show it off much. And I don't think Ferrari or McLaren had any numbers on the side of their cars this year.

 

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#25 syolase

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 13:51

Do it!



#26 pacificquay

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:01

Very little point to the idea when the teams don't seem to care about showing off the numbers.

 

RedBull have had 1-2 and they don't show it off much. And I don't think Ferrari or McLaren had any numbers on the side of their cars this year.

 

 

McLaren did have numbers on the side (on the rear wings) and have tended to use the same typeface for numbers for at least 20 years



#27 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:02

It's too difficult to implent, in my opinion.

 

The moment you create numbers - how do you allocate them? Who gets first pick?

 

Then there's trawling back through history to start picking out which numbers have to be historically locked - #2 for Ayrton, #32 for Roland, #27 for Gilles etc...

 

I think it's just better to leave them as they are.

 

No reason to stop using those numbers. They didn't stop at the time with the old system. They still use them now.

 

Very little point to the idea when the teams don't seem to care about showing off the numbers.

 

RedBull have had 1-2 and they don't show it off much. And I don't think Ferrari or McLaren had any numbers on the side of their cars this year.

 

 

Recently there's been a bit of a resurgence of using side numbers. For a while the teams had all stopped.

 

Red Bull on the little sidepod fins.

McLaren on the rear wing endplates (relatively prominent by modern standards actually. They've been doing it since Button carried the No.1).

Mercedes on the rear wing endplates though almost hidden behind the wheels.

Williams on the sidepods. But I'd imagine they would rather have a sponsor logo there.

Toro Rosso like Red Bull, but harder to see I think.

 

I'm actually wondering if the teams would show off their numbers more if they were permanent, as it would tie in to marketing more.



#28 dau

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:04

I don't see the point. You can't see the numbers anyway.



#29 SenorSjon

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:12

Watch the old liveries thread and you see the start numbers better. It is the glossy overdesigning of car liveries (and helmets for that matter) that hide the start number well. With next years noses, perhaps it would be better visible.



#30 Fastcake

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:18

Can't see that it makes much difference until the numbers are brought back to prominence.


Agreed. It's really a non-issue while numbers aren't really important.

#31 Atreiu

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:20

Agreed. It's really a non-issue while numbers aren't really important.

 

Non-issues are what will keep us through the winter.

 

I'd rather have numbers assigned to the teams. 3 and 4 would be Mercedes nowadays, I guess.



#32 E.B.

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:21

Funny how Ferrari fans romanticise the numbers they had during the least successful period of their history!

 

The 27 seems to be a Gilles thing. Even though to a dim person like me he appeared to race more times, and with more success, in a Ferrari numbered 12.



#33 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:24

The 27 seems to be a Gilles thing. Even though to a dim person like me he appeared to race more times, and with more success, in a Ferrari numbered 12.

 

I think while Gilles started it, Mansell and Alesi made their own contributions to the legend.



#34 E.B.

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:26

I think while Gilles started it, Mansell and Alesi made their own contributions to the legend.

 

And the Tambay Imola win helped too I think, but again that was all about Gilles.



#35 Nonesuch

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:34

What's the point? Seems like pointless nostalgia. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc, indeed.

 

The numbers have become largely, or even completely, irrelevant. Even the FIA itself now includes the driver name in its Race Control Twitter Feed, or whatever name they have concocted. No longer do we see that 'car 8 is under investigation', for example. The large poles at tracks like Suzuka, the Nürburgring, Austin, Barcelona etc. all show the driver names rather than the numbers, too. The Live Timing still includes the number, but the name is often listed first.

 

The names are more human, and thus a great fit for the soap-opera elements of F1.

 

Compare: Did you know that driver 6 thinks driver 3 is better than driver 1? to ALONSO FAVOURED BY HIS PEERS. VETTEL STAYS SILENT - ENJOYING WEEK OFF AFTER CHAMPIONSHIP VICTORY.

 

The latter is clearly far better. :up:


Edited by Nonesuch, 28 November 2013 - 14:42.


#36 Fastcake

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:38

Maybe then we should have the drivers three-letter abbreviations more prominent on the cars, to match the TV graphics and the circuits.

#37 DampMongoose

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 14:39

The 27 seems to be a Gilles thing. Even though to a dim person like me he appeared to race more times, and with more success, in a Ferrari numbered 12.

 

Gilles last car was the 27 which is obviously a factor, and although he was more successful with other numbers his performances such as 1981 Monaco and the tactical drive to win at Jarama were part of the 27 becoming Gilles number in the mind of the fans. 



#38 Markn93

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:40

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111650

 

and here's the story.



#39 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:40

Formula 1 teams are pushing ahead with a plan to give drivers permanent numbers throughout their racing careers, AUTOSPORT has learned.

High-level sources have revealed that the item has been tabled for discussion at the next meeting of Formula 1's Strategy Group, which had been due to take place on Friday but has been delayed until December 9.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111650



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#40 F.M.

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:40

I do wonder what nr. Kimi will select.. 0 because that's how many f's he gives about it?

#41 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:47

So they'll actually be assigned to the drivers themselves over their entire career? Interesting...

 

Edit: I've never quite bought the excuse that the numbers encroach on potential sponsorship space, because there are always big empty areas on all the cars.


Edited by PayasYouRace, 28 November 2013 - 15:48.


#42 F.M.

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:49

Vettel should show a sense of humor and go with 21 btw! :p (multi)

Edited by F.M., 28 November 2013 - 15:50.


#43 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:50

In a sport riddled with poor and shortsighted rules and regulations, this takes any kind of preference at strategy meetings? The numbers can not be seen on the cars, they hacve zero bearing on anything and the World Champion driver would get number 1 anyway.

 

Much ado about absolutely nothing, so expect will come to pass.

 

:cool:



#44 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:51

Do the numbers have to be positive integers? Or even rational for that matter?

 

Who will choose e, or pi?



#45 John Player

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:52

Alonso would be 6



#46 Shiroo

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:52

Do the numbers have to be positive integers? Or even rational for that matter?

 

Who will choose e, or pi?

 

or 2+3i



#47 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:53

or 2+3i

 

Considering the dominance of engineering in F1, 2+3j.



#48 Shiroo

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 15:59

Considering the dominance of engineering in F1, 2+3j.

 

and what about derivative of x^4 sin x? We shouldn't limit them only to numbers. One numer to one driver.

So if someone takes 1, no one ever again will be able to take it.

And I find it more amazing if for example Hamilton would be derivative of x^4 sin x, Alonso f(n)=f(n-1)+f(n-2), f(1)=1, f(2)=2 etc.

 

On a serious note:

The idea itself is pretty decent, but there is no point if the exposure of numbers will be as good as it is nowadays.



#49 DinocoBlue

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:00

I must be in the minority in hating the idea. I can understand the benefits but I just don't like the idea of them becoming just another marketing tool.



#50 BrokenBaculum

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:01

And while we're at it, we should have permanent helmet base (colours, pattern, etc) liveries too, that a driver has to stay with from their first race til their last, however many seasons later. Only minute changes for marketing reasons.

It would bring back some of the traditions of F1, and stop the likes of Vettel changing his every race. (This is not a Vettel bash, btw - it applies to everyone.) 

 

The only exception to this is for charity-organised competition winners designing a livery for one race. That's all.

 

The likes of Hulkenberg and Bottas have stunning helmets and they should be kept that way.