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Permanent Car Numbers


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Poll: Permanent Car Numbers (316 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you change about the assignment of car numbers in F1?

  1. Assign numbers to teams (66 votes [20.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.89%

  2. Assign numbers to drivers (156 votes [49.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.37%

  3. No change / Keep it the same (94 votes [29.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.75%

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#601 Youichi

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 13:59

Alonso is going for 14, he just posted this pic on his twitter feed.

 

Bb7u8riIIAAk8EM.jpg



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#602 ensign14

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 14:00

If he nicks my avatar as well I'm suing.



#603 Antonov

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 14:17

surely Vettel will have the first choice? I mean, although he will drive #1, he probably also gets the first choice to pick a different number should he ever loose the status as champion.



#604 Antonov

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 14:19

I hope Kimi picks #13.

 

#7 is a bit lame, sorry. I'd prefer he takes #6 in that case (his championship winning number)

 

#32 would also be a good number, and so would #9 or even #8.


Edited by Antonov, 20 December 2013 - 14:19.


#605 st99

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 16:06

It would be funny if SV decides to troll Alonso and pick #14  :lol:

 

If he goes for a number with history, he might pick Jochen Rindt's number as he said a couple of times he was one of his F1 idols.


Edited by st99, 20 December 2013 - 16:12.


#606 RedOne

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 16:45

Alonso is going for 14, he just posted this pic on his twitter feed.

Bb7u8riIIAAk8EM.jpg


I like it!

#607 JHSingo

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 16:47

Will be strange to start with, seeing Alonso with a bigger number. Although I still really like this idea. :up:



#608 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 17:12

7 for Kimi.



#609 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:06

Will be strange to start with, seeing Alonso with a bigger number. Although I still really like this idea. :up:

This whole new idea will be strange to watch I think. We've been used to the current starting numbers for so many years.



#610 Maustinsj

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:41

I hope Kimi goes for a number 2.

#611 MP422

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:48

KR7,... one could only hope !! I hope Hamilton picks 22. It's always been my lucky number.

 

 

Would be cool if like Supercross the points leader has a red out line around their number. It shows up on the new points leader's bike the next race if it changes, an aspect of Supercross/Motocross i enjoy seeing.



#612 BlackCat

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 00:29

It would be funny if SV decides to troll Alonso and pick #14

 

If he goes for a number with history, he might pick Jochen Rindt's number as he said a couple of times he was one of his F1 idols.

 

As I liked Rindt and do not like Vettel much, I'm glad there is no such thing as Rindt's number. Or is there? He won Le Mans with #21, he used #80 in Indy, had multitude numbers in F2 and F1. Even in '70 he used numbers 5, 6, 10, 12 - maybe more. Iirc in those older times race organizers invited teams to the race and with those invitations appointed numbers to teams.



#613 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 00:54

What's in a number anyway?

Superstition and/or nostalga?

 

I like the idea of teams keeping their own numbers .All the talk of #27 is overblown. Get outta the past. Gilles isn't coming back, unfortunately. Too many questions of what drivers want what numbers. Maybe it's Hamilton and Vettel who are to blame.The incesent whinning of " I can't tell the drivers apart". And "He changes his helmet too much". I'd Just MAKE THE NUMBERS BIGGER AND MORE VISIBLE. That way the drivers can have their own style and individualism with their lids. Everybody wants 27, or 69, or 71 if you go that way(wink-wink). Most of the teams are going to be around longer than the drivers anyway.


Edited by InSearchOfThe, 21 December 2013 - 01:08.


#614 charly0418

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:19

Vettel has to reserve a number if he's going to pick "1" anyways right?

 

And he would have priority on that number he reserves I guess?



#615 MP422

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 17:47

Vettel has to reserve a number if he's going to pick "1" anyways right?

 

And he would have priority on that number he reserves I guess?

Yes, he gets first pick.



#616 Red17

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:47

So here is small challenge, is 07 the same as 7?



#617 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:49

So here is small challenge, is 07 the same as 7?

 

Yes.



#618 bourbon

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 19:02

KR7,... one could only hope !! I hope Hamilton picks 22. It's always been my lucky number.

 

 

Would be cool if like Supercross the points leader has a red out line around their number. It shows up on the new points leader's bike the next race if it changes, an aspect of Supercross/Motocross i enjoy seeing.

 

Red Plates in F1?  No.  Agree it is awesome in Supercross - "in Supercross" being the operative words.  I wouldn't like it.  Also, I don't like that it switches immediately to a points leader - that should start after the reigning champ rides it a while.  In F1 it would be more difficult to see.  Plus if the WDC didn't run the #1, they may wish to do something special with his number to designate he is WDC.



#619 st99

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:56

As I liked Rindt and do not like Vettel much, I'm glad there is no such thing as Rindt's number. Or is there? He won Le Mans with #21, he used #80 in Indy, had multitude numbers in F2 and F1. Even in '70 he used numbers 5, 6, 10, 12 - maybe more. Iirc in those older times race organizers invited teams to the race and with those invitations appointed numbers to teams.

 

I don't know if he had an iconic number, I wasn't even born then, I just commented that if he had one, SV would go for it because he was one of his heros.

 

Vettel will probably use #1 next season, but as a permanent number he might like  #33 (the number on his first kart) or #66

r01.jpg

2001.jpg



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#620 bourbon

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 23:01

^^Sebastian used 17 at one point in Karting also.


Edited by bourbon, 21 December 2013 - 23:02.


#621 senna da silva

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 23:52

Maybe Vettel can just request a finger on the side of his car, its the most identifiable thing associated with him since his numerous helmets and numbers are hardly unique.  :lol:



#622 MP422

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 06:18

Red Plates in F1?  No.  Agree it is awesome in Supercross - "in Supercross" being the operative words.  I wouldn't like it.  Also, I don't like that it switches immediately to a points leader - that should start after the reigning champ rides it a while.  In F1 it would be more difficult to see.  Plus if the WDC didn't run the #1, they may wish to do something special with his number to designate he is WDC.

 There is not a red plate in the first round. Has nothing to do with reigning champ unless he is the points leader.



#623 bourbon

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:41

 There is not a red plate in the first round. Has nothing to do with reigning champ unless he is the points leader.

 

Right, I said that is what I would like in sx.  I don't like the idea for F1 though.



#624 dave34m

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:45

What's in a number anyway?

Superstition and/or nostalga?

 

I like the idea of teams keeping their own numbers .All the talk of #27 is overblown. Get outta the past. Gilles isn't coming back, unfortunately. Too many questions of what drivers want what numbers. Maybe it's Hamilton and Vettel who are to blame.The incesent whinning of " I can't tell the drivers apart". And "He changes his helmet too much". I'd Just MAKE THE NUMBERS BIGGER AND MORE VISIBLE. That way the drivers can have their own style and individualism with their lids. Everybody wants 27, or 69, or 71 if you go that way(wink-wink). Most of the teams are going to be around longer than the drivers anyway.

 

Marketing is whats in a number. Nuthin new to motorsport of course but its huge business and will give the drivers their own marketing image away from the teams. This has the potential to be a real game changer for the top drivers
 



#625 P123

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:32

Which is why the permanent numbering should be given to the teams and not the drivers.  Making the driver the owner of the number does not benefit the team.



#626 dave34m

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 04:59

Which is why the permanent numbering should be given to the teams and not the drivers.  Making the driver the owner of the number does not benefit the team.

So what, sorry I favor the drivers having the numbers.

 

I didnt really like the idea of permanent numbers when they introduced them into motocross but it clearly lets the fans identify with the riders, it doesnt matter if Ricky Carmichael was riding Suzuki, Yamaha or Kawasaki he was always number 4 and from the riders point of view thats huge, so much so that RC didnt even use the number 1 plate when it was available to him, preferring to use his own number 4 plate. That wouldn't have made Suzuki very happy as they would have liked to have the number 1 on their bike but it demonstrates the power of having a brand like that for the individual.



#627 bourbon

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:25

Today was the last day for the drivers to provide their numbers to the FIA I thought.  We should be hearing the run down soon enough, unless for some little reason they've granted an extension...



#628 lustigson

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:35

I wonder if any driver has applied for 13. I would. And I'd pick 33 as second favorite.



#629 InfectedPumpkin

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:19

I have an question.

 

What if driver "X" carrying number 99 decide to retire?

Can driver "Y" take number 99? If yes, what happen if driver "X" decide to make comeback?



#630 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:26

People keep asking that. So far the FIA has not specified what would happen when a driver leaves F1.

 

The sensible thing to do would be to have a grace period of a few years where a number remains assigned to a driver so that in the unlikely event of a return he'd be able to resume racing under his old number, but after that time expires the number would become available.

 

Perhaps it won't work like that. Perhaps the number will be available right from the moment the driver leaves, which realistically would probably mean it stays with him for one year as often driver line-ups remain undecided later than the official entry lists are published.

 

We simply don't know and there's no reason to decide until the end of 2014 anyway.



#631 ensign14

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:12

Can driver "Y" take number 99? If yes, what happen if driver "X" decide to make comeback?

 

1. Yes, because the number would be bona vacantia, and therefore would revert to the governing body, who would make it free to the first driver to choose it.

 

2. This falls under the legal principle of merda dura.  Driver X would have to re-choose.



#632 olliek88

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:27

He also ran 43, so maybe one of those two? Unless he's already said? Not been up to  date with this so much...

 

lewis2_1017899i.jpg



#633 Peter Perfect

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:07

I must be in the minority in hating the idea. I can understand the benefits but I just don't like the idea of them becoming just another marketing tool.

I agree. The only change I'd make is make the numbers bigger so you could actually see them.



#634 tkulla

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 13:04

People keep asking that. So far the FIA has not specified what would happen when a driver leaves F1.
 
The sensible thing to do would be to have a grace period of a few years where a number remains assigned to a driver so that in the unlikely event of a return he'd be able to resume racing under his old number, but after that time expires the number would become available.
 
Perhaps it won't work like that. Perhaps the number will be available right from the moment the driver leaves, which realistically would probably mean it stays with him for one year as often driver line-ups remain undecided later than the official entry lists are published.
 
We simply don't know and there's no reason to decide until the end of 2014 anyway.


I think there should be a separate rule for world champions... Their numbers should be "retired" for 10 years or so after they finish driving.

#635 Hamm

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 13:17

Button - 24, Kevin - 52



#636 Jongas

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 16:48

Button - 24, Kevin - 52


Source?

#637 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 17:14

Marketing is whats in a number. Nuthin new to motorsport of course but its huge business and will give the drivers their own marketing image away from the teams. This has the potential to be a real game changer for the top drivers
 

So it's a money grab? Go figure...



#638 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 18:33

I don't think anyone sells more merchandise because they can now tack on a number.



#639 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 18:53

I don't think anyone sells more merchandise because they can now tack on a number.

According to dave39m it is.

 

Ross you should know better than anyone being a Nascar fan what having a driver identified number has to do with selling t-shirts, bumper stickers, baby shirts, grills, bed linens,etc.,etc.................I think it's cheesy, and an obvious greed factor not just to tell the drivers apart. How could I'd have been so naive not to think F1 was taking ideas from Nascar. Silly me.



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#640 JHSingo

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 19:22

According to dave39m it is.

 

Ross you should know better than anyone being a Nascar fan what having a driver identified number has to do with selling t-shirts, bumper stickers, baby shirts, grills, bed linens,etc.,etc.................I think it's cheesy, and an obvious greed factor not just to tell the drivers apart. How could I'd have been so naive not to think F1 was taking ideas from Nascar. Silly me.

 

Or MotoGP. Works brilliantly there. I could be wrong, but it isn't exactly the same as NASCAR. Drivers don't have permanent numbers in NASCAR, teams do. So when a driver moves teams, their number changes. In MotoGP, and in F1 as of next year, even if a driver moves team he'll still retain the same number.

 

It works brilliantly in MotoGP. How many #46, #99 or even #93 flags do you see in the crowd at MotoGP races? Loads. Makes far more sense than buying merchandise with a number on that will most likely have changed by next year.



#641 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 19:49

According to dave39m it is.

 

Ross you should know better than anyone being a Nascar fan what having a driver identified number has to do with selling t-shirts, bumper stickers, baby shirts, grills, bed linens,etc.,etc.................I think it's cheesy, and an obvious greed factor not just to tell the drivers apart. How could I'd have been so naive not to think F1 was taking ideas from Nascar. Silly me.

 

But do you need the numbers to do that? Are Alonso hat sales suddenly going to surge because it will have the same number every year? If anything changing the numbers means you need to update your gear...



#642 Dolph

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 22:32

Yes.

 

Not according to Indycar.

 

When CART and Indycar merged they ran 02 and 06 for Newman/Haas/Lanigan. But that was due to historical reasons and not very likeyl to happen again.


Edited by Dolph, 24 December 2013 - 22:36.


#643 Dolph

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 22:34

If anything changing the numbers means you need to update your gear...

 

That's exactly what I'm thinking
 



#644 dave34m

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:58

If anything changing the numbers means you need to update your gear...

You don't think they wont bring out new styles each year that people just must have. This ain't something new, its been a huge business for a long time. Marketing people will be all over this at the moment getting designs and manufacturing ready as soon as possible to get these products into the fans hands.



#645 rjtart

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 05:39

Sorry, I'm too lazy to search through the whole thread, but has there been any talk at all of making the numbers more visible? If not, then I think personal numbers are meaningless. When I watch a NASCAR race it's obvious what number Tony Stewart is, it covers the whole damn roof. I watched every race and every qualifying session this year and I have no idea what number Kimi was running.



#646 Anja

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 08:48

Sorry, I'm too lazy to search through the whole thread, but has there been any talk at all of making the numbers more visible? If not, then I think personal numbers are meaningless. When I watch a NASCAR race it's obvious what number Tony Stewart is, it covers the whole damn roof. I watched every race and every qualifying session this year and I have no idea what number Kimi was running.

 

There was no point to prominently expose the numbers as they were. From now on both drivers and teams should actually want to do do so.



#647 dau

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 09:49

Sorry, I'm too lazy to search through the whole thread, but has there been any talk at all of making the numbers more visible? If not, then I think personal numbers are meaningless. When I watch a NASCAR race it's obvious what number Tony Stewart is, it covers the whole damn roof. I watched every race and every qualifying session this year and I have no idea what number Kimi was running.

The numbers "must be clearly visible from the front of the car and on the driver’s crash helmet". They were talking about larger numbers as well, but as of yet, there's nothing in the regulations.


#648 GhostR

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 22:07

But do you need the numbers to do that? Are Alonso hat sales suddenly going to surge because it will have the same number every year? If anything changing the numbers means you need to update your gear...

 

What you're missing is that it isn't just hats. No one would have bought the Rossi replica livery scooters or motorcycles if he'd had a new number every year. Permanent numbers for drivers / riders opens up the merchandise market to new types of (more permanent / pricey) things to sell that people are otherwise averse to buy because the number of their favoured driver will change.



#649 artista

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 22:33

Sorry, I'm too lazy to search through the whole thread, but has there been any talk at all of making the numbers more visible? If not, then I think personal numbers are meaningless. When I watch a NASCAR race it's obvious what number Tony Stewart is, it covers the whole damn roof. I watched every race and every qualifying session this year and I have no idea what number Kimi was running.

Of all the F1 drivers, you had to choose the only one whose car number was clearly readable on his helmet :p

That said, I agree the NASCAR system makes it very easy to distinguish cars, it works very well, although, I don't think it's possible to have such big numbers on an F1 car (cars are too small)

Edited by artista, 25 December 2013 - 22:33.


#650 scheivlak

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 22:47

That said, I agree the NASCAR system makes it very easy to distinguish cars, it works very well, although, I don't think it's possible to have such big numbers on an F1 car (cars are too small)

There's easily enough space - the problem is only that it dimishes the space for sponsor logos.

 

In the 1970s we had no problems recognising the numbers - see http://www.forix.com...04&c=49&p=0&o=1 orhttp://www.forix.com...05&c=49&p=2&o=1  - and e.g. the space at the side of the car isn't that much less since then (I remember a thread about F1 cars being longer than ever before).