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Permanent Car Numbers


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Poll: Permanent Car Numbers (316 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you change about the assignment of car numbers in F1?

  1. Assign numbers to teams (66 votes [20.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.89%

  2. Assign numbers to drivers (156 votes [49.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.37%

  3. No change / Keep it the same (94 votes [29.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.75%

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#51 Wanderer

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:10

Vettel should show a sense of humor and go with 21 btw! :p (multi)

 

He'll probably find a way to have a new number each race. 



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#52 Les

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:10

Funny how Ferrari fans romanticise the numbers they had during the least successful period of their history!

Give me the passion and flair of Alesi and Berger over the preceding Schumacher machine any day! 

 

Sounds like a positive move, especially the move to have larger numbers. For nostalgia sakes I'd like to see the numbers allocated to the teams instead of the drivers so we could have Ferrari 27 & 28 and Williams (Red) 5 & 6 but I'm sure anyone who didn't watch F1 back then won't really care about that. 



#53 E.B.

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:17

Do the numbers have to be positive integers? Or even rational for that matter?

 

Lauda and Piquet wore an imaginary number at some stage in their F1 careers.



#54 Fastcake

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:18

In a sport riddled with poor and shortsighted rules and regulations, this takes any kind of preference at strategy meetings? The numbers can not be seen on the cars, they hacve zero bearing on anything and the World Champion driver would get number 1 anyway.

 

Much ado about absolutely nothing, so expect will come to pass.

 

:cool:

 

The teams are utterly incompetent at agreeing to anything else. 



#55 fastlegs

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:21

I think it would be great to go back to permanent numbers.

 

I would like to see them prominently displayed on each side of the rear wing.



#56 Bart

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:23

Don't really mind this, it works well in NASCAR and MotoGP.

The system in NASCAR is that numbers are assigned to teams and they can sell them I think (when Dale Jr moved to Hendrick, the team bought Robert Yates's #88 as they couldn't get the #8 from Earnhardt Motorsports). This makes more sense because teams don't generally leave the sport and then come back, whereas drivers can (Schumacher, Hulkenburg, Sutil) -- what happens if somebody takes a retired driver's number and that driver returns? And what number should a car have when it's being driven by a reserve driver? Do reserve drivers get numbers?

 

Let's face it, any driver merchandise is going to feature the livery of the car and sponsors so it only makes sense for a driver to have a particular number while he's with the same team. In which case just give the numbers to the teams, and you avoid any resurrection problems because a team is well-defined by virtue of needing to pay an entry fee so there's a clear continuation of say, Jordan to Midland to Spyker to Force India, whereas if a team folded and then a new team bought its assets it would be a new team (although arguably the numbers could be an asset).



#57 aditya-now

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:24

I think while Gilles started it, Mansell and Alesi made their own contributions to the legend.

And Senna did the 27 number proud as well.



#58 ForeverF1

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:26

Here's an idea that would, no doubt, make Bernie's toes curl.

All teams have a set pricing per sqr cm for advertising (a supposition, not a known fact) Bernie pays the teams for the space taken in displaying easily seen numbers.



#59 DampMongoose

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:28

I guess this will try and emulate the MotoGP numbers etc that have made the 46 logo popular in the past?  I can see Hamilton already painstakingly designing some hideous gangsta rap inspired number graphic monstrosity as we type... Kimi will just go for a couple of strips of duct tape to make an 11 I guess? 



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#60 August

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:30

I'd prefer if it were permanent numbers for teams. Ferrari would probably pick 27 & 28, Williams 5 & 6, etc. I wonder if Lotus had the traditional numbers of Toleman or Team Lotus?



#61 FerrariV12

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:31

Don't think I'd be a fan of the MotoGP style system, but I'd see nothing wrong with returning to the 1974-95 system, fix the numbers, swap them around for champions etc, but keep them fixed to teams rather than drivers.

 

Part of the intrigue about the iconic numbers of the past such as Gilles' 27 (even though he spent most of his career with #12, but never mind) and Mansell's Red 5, is they happened entirely by accident rather than being pre-planned by the drivers. The 27 was because Ferrari won the championship, then lost it to a relatively new team (Williams), taking their numbers and not winning much for a very long time. Mansell took the 5 simply by virtue of replacing first Jacques Laffite and then Thierry Boutsen at Williams.

 

After a while it would provide a nice link to the past as well - as a young child I remember first discovering about Tyrrell's competitive age with Jackie Stewart after asking my dad's F1-supporting friend "why do Tyrrell have 3 and 4 when they are crap?" and I first had the origins of the numbers - going back to the time when Grouillard and de Cesaris's team were anything but crap - explained to me. A child watching today won't be quite as inquisitive about the 16 and 17 on the side of the Williams. So all in all it would be good to go back to a modern version of that and keep it for future.

 

This nearly happened for 2002, but because Sauber had finished fourth in 2001, and wanted to run 7 & 8 rather than the 16 & 17 that they would have had fixed to them, they were the ones to veto it i think. I remember being a bit wound-up when the '02 Sauber appeared on the tracks, and after all that fuss of them wanting the 7 & 8, it was barely legible on their cars!



#62 Pinch

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:35

Not relevant to F1, but is 46 arguably the most iconic number in motorsports?

 

I think it's great if we can get personal car numbers back into F1.



#63 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:35

Part of the intrigue about the iconic numbers of the past such as Gilles' 27 (even though he spent most of his career with #12, but never mind) and Mansell's Red 5, is they happened entirely by accident rather than being pre-planned by the drivers. The 27 was because Ferrari won the championship, then lost it to a relatively new team (Williams), taking their numbers and not winning much for a very long time. Mansell took the 5 simply by virtue of replacing first Jacques Laffite and then Thierry Boutsen at Williams.

 

That's how Mansell had the 5, but it was a suggestion by Murray Walker that made his red, to make it easier for Murray to tell him apart from Rosberg for BBC commentary. Boutsen's 5 was white. If you look at the first few races of 1985, Mansell had a white 5 too.

 

This nearly happened for 2002, but because Sauber had finished fourth in 2001, and wanted to run 7 & 8 rather than the 16 & 17 that they would have had fixed to them, they were the ones to veto it i think. I remember being a bit wound-up when the '02 Sauber appeared on the tracks, and after all that fuss of them wanting the 7 & 8, it was barely legible on their cars!

 

Ah thanks. I knew it was something like that.



#64 pacificquay

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:35

I'd support the permanent numbers for drivers as long as it is COMPULSORY for the reigning champion to use 1

 

Otherwise, no



#65 DampMongoose

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:36

Not relevant to F1, but is 46 arguably the most iconic number in motorsports?

 

I think it's great if we can get personal car numbers back into F1.

 

Worldwide quite probably... some across the pond might argue for Dale's number 3?



#66 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:38

I'd support the permanent numbers for drivers as long as it is COMPULSORY for the reigning champion to use 1

 

Otherwise, no

 

Hell yes! Sorry Mr. Rossi, but as far as I'm concerned you've never been a MotoGP champion  :p Same goes for all those supposed NASCAR and Indycar champions.

 

Real champions carry the Number 1.   ;)


Edited by PayasYouRace, 28 November 2013 - 16:38.


#67 dau

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:44

Hell yes! Sorry Mr. Rossi, but as far as I'm concerned you've never been a MotoGP champion  :p Same goes for all those supposed NASCAR and Indycar champions.

 

Real champions carry the Number 1.   ;)

You guys really do love your numbers, eh?


Edited by dau, 28 November 2013 - 16:56.


#68 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:54

I must be in the minority in hating the idea. I can understand the benefits but I just don't like the idea of them becoming just another marketing tool.

 

Ehhh my post was meant to be read as hating it. Re-reading it I see that was not patently obvious. But for the record, most stupid than a lot of stupid rules and suggested rules, do not like it one bit.

 

:cool:



#69 Barty

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 16:59

I quote the Iron Lady: No! No! No!



#70 maximilian

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 17:01

It should go by teams, not drivers - as it used to be.

 

1/2 - open for champion team

3/4 - Mercedes (old Tyrrell numbers)

5/6 - Williams

7/8 - McLaren

9/10 - RedBull (no history, but they would be a good fit for those numbers)

11/12 - Lotus

13/14 - vacant due to idiotic superstition

15/16 - the old Renault numbers - keep them vacant, in case of a factory Renault return

17/18 - Force India

19/20 - Caterham

21/22 - Marussia

23/24 - Toro Rosso (Minardi numbers)

25/26 - the old Ligier numbers, no current candidate for those

27/28 - Ferrari

29/30 - Sauber



#71 ali.unal

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 17:28

I assume Vettel would pick up a number between 1 and 10 so that he can finger it.

7 for Schumacher (and immediate retirement of that number)
12 for Senna (and immediate retirement of that number)
22 for Hamilton (the number with which he was crowned champion)
5 for Rosberg (driver with the most 5th place on earth)
6 for Alonso (the number of characters in Petrov's name)
00 for Maldonado (for being a shitty driver)
69 for Button (for looking for balance)

#72 William Hunt

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 17:30

I would like to see fixed numbers for teams with the champions exchanging numbers with the team that had nrs 1 & 2 every year. The way it used to be, that was a much better system. I would hate to see drivers with the same number every year. It should be fixed to teams.



#73 John Player

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 17:41

I assume Vettel would pick up a number between 1 and 10 so that he can finger it.

7 for Schumacher (and immediate retirement of that number)
12 for Senna (and immediate retirement of that number)
22 for Hamilton (the number with which he was crowned champion)
5 for Rosberg (driver with the most 5th place on earth)
6 for Alonso (the number of characters in Petrov's name)
00 for Maldonado (for being a shitty driver)
69 for Button (for looking for balance)

 

 

 

Also his 6 tenths



#74 midgrid

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 17:43

With lower noses for next year, it should be easier to put numbers on the cars that can be seen from the front, perhaps like the Sauber C19 of 2000, which had its number just above the tip of the nosecone.

 

Sauber-C19-Petronas3.jpg

 

The most obvious numbers of recent times were found on the non-tobacco livery of the Renault R24, with the driver's name and number replacing the customary Mild Seven branding:

 

d04cdn181.jpg



#75 GVera

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 17:47

I must be in the minority in hating the idea. I can understand the benefits but I just don't like the idea of them becoming just another marketing tool.

 

And you write that while your avatar is an Iconic number...



#76 Wanderer

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 17:49

I assume Vettel would pick up a number between 1 and 10 so that he can finger it.

 

A Roman 5 would be nice.



#77 Tosh

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:03

Yes... because that's the issue with F1. Fixed numbers...There are far more important things than that.


Edited by Tosh, 28 November 2013 - 18:17.


#78 hogstar

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:14

The FIA should spend more time on real issues, rather than inventing them with this ridiculous proposal. 

 

What next, two seaters so Hamilton can take his dog round the track?  :well:

 

 



#79 Vepe1995

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:28

And you write that while your avatar is an Iconic number...

 

Does something from a movie count?

 

 

I think F1 should use driver-fixed numbers. Either keep the current system or the 73-95 system.



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#80 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:32

will "bad" numbers be forbidden?



#81 Rob

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:36

So who would have what number? Would this be from 1-99 or just the number of cars? 13 included?

 

13 is only omitted because it is the traditional western unlucky number. 4 is traditionally unlucky in Japan but that still gets dished out.

 

This is a high-tech sport that utilises critical thinking and the scientific method. Let's allocate number 13 and stop following silly superstitions.



#82 SenorSjon

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:37

It should go by teams, not drivers - as it used to be.

 

1/2 - open for champion team

3/4 - Mercedes (old Tyrrell numbers)

5/6 - Williams

7/8 - McLaren

9/10 - RedBull (no history, but they would be a good fit for those numbers)

11/12 - Lotus

13/14 - vacant due to idiotic superstition

15/16 - the old Renault numbers - keep them vacant, in case of a factory Renault return

17/18 - Force India

19/20 - Caterham

21/22 - Marussia

23/24 - Toro Rosso (Minardi numbers)

25/26 - the old Ligier numbers, no current candidate for those

27/28 - Ferrari

29/30 - Sauber

Totally agree. But no swapping around. Just have the wdc team have 1 and 2 and keep their regular number in reserve. 



#83 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:39

I guess if the new system comes in then a driver might be allowed to choose 13 again. Last time was Divina Galica I think.



#84 Rob

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:43

will "bad" numbers be forbidden?

 

There is no such thing as a bad number. They only exist in someone's mind.



#85 pingu666

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 18:50

the reason it was taken away was because it gave the teams something to build a brand around, and give some value to them.

 

I quite like how it works in nascar and other series



#86 redreni

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 19:50

Marketing Wazzock: "Hey, guys, shall we have permanent numbers, we might be able to grub up an extra €500K a season from having a sponsored event to unveil the numbers for the rookies!"

Teams: "Yeah, I‘ll vote for that"

Lone voice at the back: "Okay, but how about making the numbers big enough that it will be possible for spectators to read them?"

Teams: "What, and lose six square inches of advertising space on the car? Screw the bloody spectators, mate, why don‘t you cluck off!"

#87 JRodrigues

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 19:59

ferrari27.jpg

 

 

:up:

 

(now you all know what's my favorite number)


Edited by JRodrigues, 28 November 2013 - 20:00.


#88 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 20:06

Magnussen should get the 44



#89 Fatgadget

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 20:18

Old foggies having wet dreams about the past frankly :rolleyes: ...So who will be allocated 3 and 4? and why? And why should Williams still be allocated 5 and 6??  And Ferrari - 27...when only 22 cars on the grid currently?...Why not a no: 1066 while we are there LOL!  :lol:

 

Bad bad idea  :down:  :down:


Edited by Fatgadget, 28 November 2013 - 20:19.


#90 Cool Beans

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 20:36

I want 58008



#91 bourbon

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 20:43

unnecessary.



#92 syolase

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 20:51

13 is only omitted because it is the traditional western unlucky number. 4 is traditionally unlucky in Japan but that still gets dished out.

 

This is a high-tech sport that utilises critical thinking and the scientific method. Let's allocate number 13 and stop following silly superstitions.

I think its more like a tradition now, not a superstition. I think it's nice, gives a little "soul" to this more and more soulless sport (maybe this is not the best way to put it, but I'm not a native speaker of the language)



#93 JHSingo

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 20:52

I like this idea. It has probably been said already, but it works well in MotoGP. You always associate #46 with Rossi, #99 with Lorenzo, #26 with Pedrosa etc. The number in bike racing is as much a part as the rider's identity as their crash helmet design. So it'd be cool to see it back in F1 - besides, it'd stop expensive merchandise with numbers on going out of date after a season. :lol:


Edited by JHSingo, 28 November 2013 - 20:52.


#94 jrg19

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 21:13

BaMAEBvCcAAFAC5.png

 

LH looks like 41 here to me?



#95 Schuttelberg

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 21:15

I'd be glad if they stick to what they have. Last thing I want is Seb changing numbers and helmet designs every weekend!



#96 Clatter

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 21:18

Couldn't care less what numbers they use. It adds nothing to the spectacle, doesn't improve performance, and can't be seen on the car anyway.

 

It's just another example of fiddling while ignoring the real problems. 



#97 michaelmyers

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 21:20

I quite fancy this idea. The only real issue I can think of is who gets to pick first? What if two drivers want the same number?

#98 JHSingo

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 21:26

I'd be glad if they stick to what they have. Last thing I want is Seb changing numbers and helmet designs every weekend!

 

Do you understand the meaning of "permanent"?



#99 911

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 21:42

Ferrari 27 & 28...  :love:

I miss the old numbering system when the teams kept the same numbers unless they won the WDC.  I always associate 27 & 28 with Ferrari, McLaren (Senna & Berger), and Williams (Alan Jones & Carlos Reutemann).



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#100 syolase

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 21:49

I quite fancy this idea. The only real issue I can think of is who gets to pick first? What if two drivers want the same number?

I think the best would be either they pick in the order they got into f1, or the amount of races they had. On the event of a tie (there are a few guys out there who got into f1 at the same time) they toss a coin or decide based on carrier points.