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Permanent Car Numbers


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Poll: Permanent Car Numbers (322 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you change about the assignment of car numbers in F1?

  1. Assign numbers to teams (68 votes [21.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.12%

  2. Assign numbers to drivers (157 votes [48.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.76%

  3. No change / Keep it the same (97 votes [30.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.12%

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#1001 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 15:49

A little bit history, but: John Watson back in 1985 was the last guy who was not World Champion but drive the #1. What were the other drivers who drove the #1 without being Champion in F1?



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#1002 MoebiusPT

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 15:55

A little bit history, but: John Watson back in 1985 was the last guy who was not World Champion but drive the #1. What were the other drivers who drove the #1 without being Champion in F1?

Ronnie Peterson, 1974, all season long!

 

Due to Jackie Stewart retiring in 1973, Lotus took the nÂș 1 number due to their win in the WCC.



#1003 E.B.

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 17:00

Pedro Rodriguez won Spa with number 1.

There were certainly quite a few others, especially the further back you go.

#1004 ensign14

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 21:16

The most unlikely was probably Graham Whitehead at the 1952 British GP; the organizers gave everyone numbers in alphabetical order of car, so Whitehead's Alta came at the top.  Bill Aston's self-build was number 2.

 

As an aside, there were no car manufacturers whose names would fall in the second half of the alphabet present at the race.



#1005 dave34m

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 22:20

Chris Amon at Spa 1967 raced number 1, not sure about other races that year



#1006 E.B.

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 22:34

I've just remembered that I set a quiz question on another forum some years ago asking about drivers who had won a WDC race in car number 1 when they weren't the reigning world champ. In addition to Rodriguez and Peterson, I remember two others were Clark and Collins.

Johnnie Parsons and Jimmy Bryan did so too of course, but that's cos they were defending AAA or USAC national champions.

#1007 HistoryFan

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:37

Thank you, very interesting.



#1008 Velocifer

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 13:52

Interesting that according to this poll, the majority here doesn't really want driver assigned numbers..



#1009 FerrariV12

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 14:15

Interesting that according to this poll, the majority here doesn't really want driver assigned numbers..

 

Including me - either keeping it the same or going back to semi-permanent team numbers would have been preferable for me - but then take a look at the poll for double points and see how that one turned out.



#1010 Deluxx

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 14:04

To me, I feel like the numbers should be 150% more visible.

 

I'm all for simplicity and not wanting to neuter liveries any more than they are now....... but what's the point of assigning numbers if you can't even see them?

 

For example, the williams.

 

Yeah, there is probably going to be another sponsor to take up that space on the car, but even if there wasn't, it should look a bit like this. 

 

(original on left, new on right, sry for ms paint lols)

 

1kM9VI7.png

 

You would be able to see the number in person and on tv coverage way better....



#1011 August

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 15:20

I'm more convinced that assigning numbers to drivers and not to teams was a mistake, if they wanted to get something new to marketing. I'm not convinced teams want to use their drivers' numbers in marketing as much as they would've wanted to use their own team numbers. I think Ferrari would've used 27 & 28 much more in their marketing than 7 & 14.



#1012 jcbc3

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 15:46

It's not for markering the teams but the drivers. Any driver in Ferrari No. 27 is instantly 'forgotten' or berated for using that hallowed number. Instead look at Valentino Rossi that has made a brand out of 46. This year is the first baby step towards the opportunity of building a brand for the drivers. Rome wasn't built in a day, y'know.



#1013 danmills

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 17:16

Personal numbers also eradicates the 'No.1 and No.2' predicament.



#1014 August

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 17:23

How are the camera colours now decided between teammates?



#1015 jrg19

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 17:27

In most teams it's been given to the lead driver in last years championship, Williams is one exception where Bottas hasn't been given the black camera even though he was with the team last season. I guess teams which have two new drivers the black "lead" camera has been given to the driver with more experience.

#1016 sabjit

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 20:35

In most teams it's been given to the lead driver in last years championship, Williams is one exception where Bottas hasn't been given the black camera even though he was with the team last season. I guess teams which have two new drivers the black "lead" camera has been given to the driver with more experience.

 

 

Honestly, I think a flip of the coin is more likely.



#1017 Deluxx

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 02:40

I'm more convinced that assigning numbers to drivers and not to teams was a mistake, if they wanted to get something new to marketing. I'm not convinced teams want to use their drivers' numbers in marketing as much as they would've wanted to use their own team numbers. I think Ferrari would've used 27 & 28 much more in their marketing than 7 & 14.

 

I appreciate your opinion, but I disagree.

 

Having a number stick to you no matter what team you go to is more important for independent branding.



#1018 August

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 07:35

It's not for markering the teams but the drivers. Any driver in Ferrari No. 27 is instantly 'forgotten' or berated for using that hallowed number. Instead look at Valentino Rossi that has made a brand out of 46. This year is the first baby step towards the opportunity of building a brand for the drivers. Rome wasn't built in a day, y'know.

 

I appreciate your opinion, but I disagree.

 

Having a number stick to you no matter what team you go to is more important for independent branding.

 

I doubt teams allow much independend branding branding, look at how drivers need to modify their helmet paintjobs for the team's requirements (even though many of them seem to do it willingly). The numbers don't seem any more prominent than they used to be. Williams at least uses drivers' personal fonts, yet even that's far from MotoGP's individually styled numbers.



#1019 jcbc3

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:54

Not disagreeing with that at all August. What I am saying, is that it is a process that has only just started.



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#1020 Deluxx

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 14:03

Yep. When we see a big star go to another drive I bet. Bringing their number with them will be a way teams and drivers define themselves in a new car.

 

I just hope we don't see them go overboard with it like in other sports. 

 

nzdgUIQl.jpg :down:  :down:



#1021 Numero14

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 14:45

Its was better for me when cameras were red and black, this black and fluorescent is shit for me.

 

:down:


Edited by Numero14, 26 March 2014 - 14:45.


#1022 HP

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 14:57

The other day I was noticing someone in the street wearing a Ferrari Massa shirt. Was he a Ferrari and/or Massa supporter? With the number it's more clearcut IMO.If someone wears a shirt with their fave driver and his number, as opposed to a team shirt I know. Helps me to understand if I am dealing with a driver or team supporter.

 

And as a matter of fact, above is a poster with the username Numero14. It seems pretty obvious for whom he is rooting.



#1023 Deluxx

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 16:13

The other day I was noticing someone in the street wearing a Ferrari Massa shirt. Was he a Ferrari and/or Massa supporter? With the number it's more clearcut IMO.If someone wears a shirt with their fave driver and his number, as opposed to a team shirt I know. Helps me to understand if I am dealing with a driver or team supporter.

 

I agree.

 

And as a matter of fact, above is a poster with the username Numero14. It seems pretty obvious for whom he is rooting.

 

This guy?



#1024 HP

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 22:20

I agree.

 

 

This guy?

I get your point. However if you click on his profile you'll see it's Alonso. Besides, this is a forum which the majority of posts (including this discussion) are about Formula1.



#1025 Deluxx

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:13

They'll come a time where we'll be able to identify drivers without waiting for a commentator to stumble over his/her notes.

 

But when the FIA is ready. They don't like change.

 

Look how long it took to get size 8 font numbers on the side of cars. Thats a pretty big achievement.


Edited by Deluxx, 27 March 2014 - 12:13.


#1026 Numero14

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 14:58

why all drivers dont have number on helmet to look in same direction?



#1027 Deluxx

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 16:54

I think we will eventually see helmets with numbers on them, but I'm not sure I'm open to the idea of requiring them, just yet at least. Some drivers have designs they like to use, and I see conflict.

 

However, it would help alot!



#1028 Rob G

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 17:13

I think we will eventually see helmets with numbers on them, but I'm not sure I'm open to the idea of requiring them, just yet at least. Some drivers have designs they like to use, and I see conflict.

 

However, it would help alot!

 

Requiring numbers on the sides of the car would eliminate the need for numbers on the helmet. I haven't seen an F1 car without room for a number somewhere on the side in years.



#1029 Deluxx

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 17:28

They do require it now :)

 

They're just not big.



#1030 Rob G

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 23:36

They do require it now :)
 
They're just not big.

If that's true, then unless the numbers are smaller than the letters in this sentence, everybody broke that rule except for Red Bull, Williams and Toro Rosso.

#1031 showtime

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 00:10

why all drivers dont have number on helmet to look in same direction?

Because it's not regulated so some think on how it's seen from the front and others from the onboard camera. Numbers in helmets are pretty useless anyway. 



#1032 Deluxx

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 02:17

If that's true, then unless the numbers are smaller than the letters in this sentence, everybody broke that rule except for Red Bull, Williams and Toro Rosso.

 

Well, exactly haha ^_^



#1033 Jackmancer

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Posted Yesterday, 08:24

Lewis just said on BBC Breakfast that he'll keep #44 on the car next year: "I might be number one, but forty-four is always my number."



#1034 lustigson

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Posted Yesterday, 10:23

Lewis just said on BBC Breakfast that he'll keep #44 on the car next year: "I might be number one, but forty-four is always my number."

 

I would think that's not a first, a WDC not using the #1, but I don't know which WDC used (an) other starting number(s) in the past. Any clues?



#1035 Jackmancer

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Posted Yesterday, 10:39

I would think that's not a first, a WDC not using the #1, but I don't know which WDC used (an) other starting number(s) in the past. Any clues?

 

Well at least it's the first time the #1 car isn't on the grid since 1994, when Alain Prost left the sport as reigning champion.



#1036 Kristian

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Posted Yesterday, 10:42

Lewis just said on BBC Breakfast that he'll keep #44 on the car next year: "I might be number one, but forty-four is always my number."

 

Mercedes might have something to say about that. I'm sure they want lots of marketing shots with a big red and white 1 on their car. 



#1037 Jamiednm

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Posted Yesterday, 11:07

Mercedes might have something to say about that. I'm sure they want lots of marketing shots with a big red and white 1 on their car. 

 

Yep, my first thought also. I suppose they could use a big laurel wreath / Champion logo on the nose underneath the No.44.



#1038 SanDiegoGo

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Posted Yesterday, 12:05

Mercedes might have something to say about that. I'm sure they want lots of marketing shots with a big red and white 1 on their car. 

 

might be a nice little negotiating tactic to take in his contract meeting. get some nice little perks in exchange for running #1 on his car.


Edited by SanDiegoGo, Yesterday, 12:05.


#1039 pacificquay

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Posted Yesterday, 12:37

I think what he meant was he will run as car number 1, but will have a 44 somewhere on the car, no?



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#1040 KWSN - DSM

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Posted Yesterday, 13:21

Another tradition down the drain, number 1 is the Yellow Jersey of f1 you spend a season trying to grab it and the following holding on. I should post this over in the grind thread as well.

 

:cool:



#1041 RedBaron

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Posted Yesterday, 13:47

Mercedes might have something to say about that. I'm sure they want lots of marketing shots with a big red and white 1 on their car. 

 

Marketing shots with have 1, Lewis will race with 44, simple as that.

 

 

Another tradition down the drain, number 1 is the Yellow Jersey of f1 you spend a season trying to grab it and the following holding on. I should post this over in the grind thread as well.

 

:cool:

 

It isn't like the Yellow Jersey really... which is a celebrated thing well known within and outside the sport. Car/driver numbers have only just become visible before they were tiny insignificant unnoticed digits on the car put on only due to regulation (unless you got back 30+ years)


Edited by RedBaron, Yesterday, 13:47.


#1042 FerrariV12

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Posted Yesterday, 13:49

Another tradition down the drain, number 1 is the Yellow Jersey of f1 you spend a season trying to grab it and the following holding on. I should post this over in the grind thread as well.

 

:cool:

 

Agreed, but I'm afraid this was always on the cards when they made the change at the start of this year, I personally was expecting it (unless Vettel had retained the title, or someone like Kimi had won, I seem to remember his reason for taking 7 was because he had it in 2013 anyway).

 

To answer the question earlier, off the top of my head I think Emerson Fittipaldi in Argentina '73 was the last time a champion didn't run #1, he ran #2 but this was the last race where the race cars were all numbered with even numbers. The last time a champion didn't have the lowest number was I think Jackie Stewart in the 1972 French GP. Up until this time cars were numbered on a race-by-race basis by the individual event organisers and didn't necessarily reflect the previous year's championship, so there are numerous more examples prior to this.



#1043 cooper

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Posted Yesterday, 14:02

He could still find a way to incorporate both 44 & 1..
B3Sr8zcIUAALA1c.jpg

#1044 JuanPablo

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Posted Yesterday, 14:19

He could still find a way to incorporate both 44 & 1..
B3Sr8zcIUAALA1c.jpg

 


Very clever.

#1045 RedBaron

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Posted Yesterday, 14:24

Someone did the 4(1)4 thing on twitter earlier, it's a nice idea.

 

(Hate that font though Cooper, but nicely done.)



#1046 Bleu

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Posted Today, 06:30

Any idea when do we know the numbers for Nasr and Verstappen (and other possible rookies)? 

 

Though both ran in FP1 this year, neither selected their numbers themselves (40 and 38)



#1047 Lopek

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Posted Today, 07:45

As the numbers are almost impossible to read on current F1 cars it's pretty much irrelevant. Rossi always ran with his 46 when he was reigning MotoGP champion & I don't remember the world coming to an end so we're probably OK.



#1048 bonneville

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Posted Today, 08:47

I would think that's not a first, a WDC not using the #1, but I don't know which WDC used (an) other starting number(s) in the past. Any clues?

Farina, champion in 1950, raced 22, 4, 2, 1, 76, 34, 20 in 1951, changing numbers in every race.

It was common to enter different race numbers at each race until the late 1960s.

It's not before 1967 that world champions would race #1 in the majority of races. But even then, Brabham didn't race #1 in Monaco, Belgium, France and Italy.
In 1968, Hulme didn't race #1 in Monaco, Belgium and France.
In 1969, Grahamm Hill raced #2 in Italy.
In 1970, Stewart didn't race #1 in Monaco, Belgium, Italy, Netherlands and Canada.
In 1972, Stewart didn't race #1 in Argentina and France.
In 1973, Fittipaldi didn't race #1 in Argentina.
In 1975, Fittipaldi became the first defending WDC to race a full season with #1.
Others followed suit.

Until Lewis. So to answer your question. The last WDC to race in a number other than #1 was Emmo Fittipaldi in Argentina 1973.

Edit. By the way, this was 28 January 1973, and Emmo won that race. No #1 car was entered in that race.

Edited by bonneville, Today, 08:58.