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Permanent Car Numbers


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Poll: Permanent Car Numbers (316 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you change about the assignment of car numbers in F1?

  1. Assign numbers to teams (66 votes [20.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.89%

  2. Assign numbers to drivers (156 votes [49.37%])

    Percentage of vote: 49.37%

  3. No change / Keep it the same (94 votes [29.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.75%

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#101 SenorSjon

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 22:10

I rather have it a team thing, than a driver thing. But that's me. You have had multiple legends around number 27, shame if that could be only 1 driver.

 

If it is on the drivers superlicense: Make a top 3 of available numbers.

  • Current F1 drivers go first in order of WDC.
  • When two rookies enter, the driver from the highest ranking team from the previous year takes the first pick.
  • If both drivers from the same team enter F1 for the first time, they use rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock.
  • Once a number is chosen, it stays with you for your career.


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#102 Schuttelberg

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 22:15

Do you understand the meaning of "permanent"?

 

Do you know the meaning of the word "polite?"



#103 ElDictatore

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 22:16

ferrari27.jpg

 

 

:up:

 

(now you all know what's my favorite number)

 

http://www.youtube.c...tch?v=wF037gX5a



#104 rockdude101

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 22:32

And while we're at it, we should have permanent helmet base (colours, pattern, etc) liveries too, that a driver has to stay with from their first race til their last, however many seasons later. Only minute changes for marketing reasons.

It would bring back some of the traditions of F1, and stop the likes of Vettel changing his every race. (This is not a Vettel bash, btw - it applies to everyone.) 

 

The only exception to this is for charity-organised competition winners designing a livery for one race. That's all.

 

The likes of Hulkenberg and Bottas have stunning helmets and they should be kept that way.

 

Many drivers may want yellow, or other famous helmet designs from legends past, so that'll be difficult.

 

I've always liked the NFL's regulations on coloured gloves & shoes for charity sponsored events (Pink is for cancer charities, for example) and then - correct me if I'm wrong - but after the game each pair is sold to raise extra funds for the charity. This I would support 100%.



#105 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 22:33

Good idea!  Ferrari could reclaim their #27 and #28 numbers.   #27 Kimi Raikkonen & #28 Fernando Alonso.  Perfect.



#106 Nobody

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 22:37

Shit idea, I vote no to permanent driver numbers.

 

Reserved slots for teams is a far better idea, however WDC & team must have the No.1 (& 2) cars



#107 michaelmyers

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 22:52

I think the best would be either they pick in the order they got into f1, or the amount of races they had. On the event of a tie (there are a few guys out there who got into f1 at the same time) they toss a coin or decide based on carrier points.

That could actually work pretty nicely. If that were the case they would pick their numbers in this order:
1. Button
2. Alonso
= Räikkönen
4. Massa
5. Rosberg
6. Sutil
= Kovalainen
= Hamilton
= Vettel
10. Grosjean
11. Hülkenberg

I only included the top 10 (11 if Heikki managed to get that seat for next season.)

Edited by michaelmyers, 28 November 2013 - 22:57.


#108 pathogen

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 22:58

Ferrari 27 & 28...  :love:

Sorry, the real #27 was a true driver in a small and beautiful car… and btw I am real gilles fan  :well:



#109 ANF

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 23:04

For the teams. Only for the teams. Please.



#110 bobellsmore

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 23:25

Having seen how well it works in MotoGP, I'm very much in favour of permanent numbers for the drivers.

 

I suggest that, initially, the Champion gets first pick, then the 2nd place driver and so on down the order. After that, any 1 or 2-digit number should be allowed. I don't think we need to concern ourselves about retiring numbers - it's highly unlikely that any driver brand new to F1 would choose a number associated with a famous driver. The marketing wonks would probably veto it anyway!

 

There are a couple of bits of "housekeeping" that need to go with it though.

 

Firstly, unlike MotoGP, the reigning World Champion must display #1 with no option to use his own number during his season as Champion.

 

Secondly, the size, postion, typeface etc. of the number must be fixed. Being a really old fogey, I would like to see the big black numbers on a white circle of past days. Place them on the rear wing endplates for greatest visibility - I know the teams will scream blue murder about that but stuff 'em :lol:

 

I loved the suggestion of 21 for Vettel. Given his sense of humour and current charm (doughnut) offensive, he probably would go for it - especially if he thought it would wind Mark up a bit more!

 

 

 



#111 HP

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 23:48

Go for it!

It's a marketing dream and will therefore never happen. Good idea though.

Well, my first reaction too, but on 2nd thought: since it's marketing, it makes sense to make the numbers on the cars bigger again. Bernie will make sure that he gets his share from this.



#112 LoudHoward

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 00:20

People are saying no because the numbers are so tiny on the cars, maybe they're tiny because they have no relevance to anything anyone cares about. 

 

I'm all for it, there's no downside for us that I see. It's good to have an identifying feature for the drivers that they can carry with them, and will make their merchandise multi-year relevant.



#113 CoolBreeze

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 02:14

IMO they should. Till today, the number 27 stucks with GV. 

 

It also ensure that fans remember the number and drivers better



#114 PayasYouRace

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:16

People are saying no because the numbers are so tiny on the cars, maybe they're tiny because they have no relevance to anything anyone cares about. 

 

I'm all for it, there's no downside for us that I see. It's good to have an identifying feature for the drivers that they can carry with them, and will make their merchandise multi-year relevant.

 

I think that's partly the idea. By making the numbers more relevant to the teams they'll display them more prominently.

 

Sponsorship was a big deal before 1996, yet it was only really since then that the numbers became less visible.



#115 garoidb

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:18

Sorry, the real #27 was a true driver in a small and beautiful car… and btw I am real gilles fan  :well:

 

Alan Jones?



#116 paulrobs

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:36

So much wrong with modern F1 and yet we now hearing that a number of very bright very well paid people are taking time to seriously think about alotting permanent numbers. I've been watching the last few years thinking after every race that it would have been so much better if all the drivers had had permanent numbers................zzzzzzzzz!



#117 Burtros

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:52

If I were a Ferrari fan, I wouldn't want 27 and 28. Essentially just numbers they were stuck with after being awful for years on end.

 

In all other aspects I am for it. Give a driver a number and they keep it unless they are champion in which case they can use 1 for the year.

 

The only silly thing I can see is people not liking the number their favourite driver gets given/chooses, which would be insane. But it'll happen!



#118 PayasYouRace

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:53

Guys, just because there are big problems out there doesn't mean the small ones can't be solved. If it's not important to you, ignore it one way or the other. If you're really concerned about the big problems, stop watching F1 and work towards world peace and feeding the hungry. Those are much bigger problems than anything F1 faces.



#119 Rinehart

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:19

Great, so F1 is in the midst of financial and technical meltdown and they manage to come up with a new numbering system.

 

Disaster averted.

 

Not.



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#120 grandmastashi

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:45

I assume Vettel would pick up a number between 1 and 10 so that he can finger it.

7 for Schumacher (and immediate retirement of that number)
12 for Senna (and immediate retirement of that number)
22 for Hamilton (the number with which he was crowned champion)
5 for Rosberg (driver with the most 5th place on earth)
6 for Alonso (the number of characters in Petrov's name)
00 for Maldonado (for being a shitty driver)
69 for Button (for looking for balance)

 

Alternatively the long abandoned number 13 could be brought back for Maldonado... just sayin'. 



#121 paulrobs

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:48

Guys, just because there are big problems out there doesn't mean the small ones can't be solved. If it's not important to you, ignore it one way or the other. If you're really concerned about the big problems, stop watching F1 and work towards world peace and feeding the hungry. Those are much bigger problems than anything F1 faces.

 

There is no problem to be solved by alotting permanent numbers



#122 paulrobs

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:50

Great, so F1 is in the midst of financial and technical meltdown and they manage to come up with a new numbering system.

 

Disaster averted.

 

Not.

 

This is where I was when I saw the news in Autosport and saw the thread. It's amazing really that anyone would even think this is necessary and newsworthy when, as you say, in the midst of some pretty serious issues.



#123 Fastcake

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:40

Guys, just because there are big problems out there doesn't mean the small ones can't be solved. If it's not important to you, ignore it one way or the other. If you're really concerned about the big problems, stop watching F1 and work towards world peace and feeding the hungry. Those are much bigger problems than anything F1 faces.


There's nothing wrong with working to fix small problems or making minor changes. The problem is though, no one appears to be discussing the big ones at the same time. When all we hear on the news is the FIA changing the numbers and designing a new trophy, it's hard not to be skeptical.

#124 dau

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:53

There's nothing wrong with working to fix small problems or making minor changes. The problem is though, no one appears to be discussing the big ones at the same time. When all we hear on the news is the FIA changing the numbers and designing a new trophy, it's hard not to be skeptical.

The F1 Strategy Group is NOT the FIA.



#125 P123

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 13:01

I'm not sure how a permanent number for a driver is meant to assist a team, especially if he moves and takes that number to another team, and with it all the recognition and marketing potential of it.

 

The numbers should be permanent for the teams only.



#126 Nobody

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 13:07

I have an aversion to commentators referring to (for example) "the number 17 car".

 

This isn't NASCAR or football.



#127 Burtros

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 13:13

This is where I was when I saw the news in Autosport and saw the thread. It's amazing really that anyone would even think this is necessary and newsworthy when, as you say, in the midst of some pretty serious issues.

 

See I just dont get this viewpoint at all. It just doesn't stack up, it doesn't make sense. Its not logical in anyway.

 

There may be some significant problems in the eyes of some but that doesnt mean that the FIA, and motorsport press should just down tools and stop everything else in order to address these so called 'major issues'.

 

Simply put, its viewpoint without merit or worth when looked at closely.



#128 Yhamm

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:21

I would love to see drivers with permanent number <3



#129 Rob G

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 14:59

I would love to see drivers with permanent number <3

But what about the other 20 drivers?  ;)

Actually, come to think of it, I highly doubt anybody would ever choose to race #2.

#130 senna da silva

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 15:24


Actually, come to think of it, I highly doubt anybody would ever choose to race #2.

 

 

rubens.jpg



#131 DampMongoose

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 15:38

Senna chose number 2 for 1994.



#132 PayasYouRace

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 15:56

Yeah but it was either that or 0. Better to be a number two than a zero.



#133 Maustinsj

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 19:59

Yeah but it was either that or 0. Better to be a number two than a zero.

 

 

Senna chose number 2 for 1994.

 

Prost too, in 1993, but for the same reason.



#134 alfa1

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:36

For extra comedy value, drivers could have the number that reflects the highest position they ever got in the WDC.

 

Vettel, Alonso, Button, Raikkonen and Hamilton could all have number 1 for the rest of the career.

Those, like Massa who have ever finshed 2'nd in WDC will bear a number 2 from that time onward.

 

Its not like anyone would ever see it written on the side of the car anyway... but its good for the marketing department.

 

(Hey, it makes as much sense as anything else the FIA come up with)



#135 sopa

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:21

For extra comedy value, drivers could have the number that reflects the highest position they ever got in the WDC.

 

 

Or they can race with a number that reflects the number of races they have won.  :p  So the number is ever-changing, half of the field has a "0", but at least we can see Vettel's attempt of catching Schumacher's record live on his car.



#136 Kobasmashi

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:27

I have an aversion to commentators referring to (for example) "the number 17 car".

This isn't NASCAR or football.


Everyone loved it when Murray referred to Mansell as the man who drove Red 5.

#137 Knot

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:39

This doesn't solve anything, what with so few cars and drivers. 11 liveries + 22 helmet soup of the day, and it's easy to see who is who, not to mention the different color for the camera pods.



#138 SenorSjon

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:18

I find a number much easier to remember than the color of the camera, which is hardly visible in some shots. I rather have number + markings. Numbers staying with the team makes them easier to recognize as well. Every year a different number is making my old brain hurt. ;)



#139 metz

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 13:45

 

 

The moment you create numbers - how do you allocate them? Who gets first pick?

 

 

Bernie has this part figured out.

He will allow teams to bid for the numbers.

Team bidding the most gets first pick, and so on.



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#140 metz

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 13:46

22 for Lewis please.

Webber suggested 21 for Vettel.



#141 August

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:07

Senna chose number 2 for 1994.

 

Prost too, in 1993, but for the same reason.

 

Weren't the numbers assgned in alphabetical order like Andretti #7 and Senna #8? So Hill #0 and Prost/Senna #2.



#142 jrg19

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:15

Webber suggested 21 for Vettel.

 

Given Sebs humour I wouldn't put it past him, but he most likely already has a number he considers his favourite or lucky.



#143 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:16

Weren't the numbers assgned in alphabetical order like Andretti #7 and Senna #8? So Hill #0 and Prost/Senna #2.

 

No I think back then the teams could decide which of their drivers had which number. For example Berger was always No.28 at Ferrari in both his stints there, even when Mansell was No.27. Other examples would be Warwick and Cheever, with Derek always getting the lower number, or Gugelmin and Capelli.

 

In fact in 1993 and 1994 Williams had the right to use the No.1, but neither Prost, Senna or Hill felt they deserved it. In the case of McLaren in 1993, they were initially entered as Andretti No.7 and Hakkinen No.8 as Senna was unsure whether he was going to drive for them that year (and the result was his race by race contract).



#144 SenorSjon

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:21

Jup. Teams were free to allocate numbers to the driver. But a WDC usually gets first pickings of course. Would you force Senna or Prost to use a number? They had way to much status for that.



#145 pathogen

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 20:48

Alan Jones?

yes! 



#146 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 22:10

If they do, I think the teams should get to choose based upon the length of time the team has been in the sport under at least partial  continuous ownership.  For example, though other people have bought and sold shares, Ron Dennis has been part owner of McLaren since 1980.

 

My order may be wrong, but the general idea is there

 

Ferrari (1950)

Williams (1976)

McLaren (1980)

Sauber (1993)

Red Bull (2005)

Torro Roso (2006)

Force India (2008)

Mercedes (2010)

Caterham (2010)

Marussia (2010)

 

Alternately, it could be how long the team has been in F1, regardless of changes in ownership.

Ferarri (1950)

McLaren (1963)

Williams (1976)

Lotus (as Toleman 1981)

Toro Rosso (as Minardi 1985)

Force India (as Jordan 1991)

Sauber (1993)

Red Bull (as Stewart 1997)

Mecedes (as BAR 1999)  In 1999 BAR bought the Tyrrell team, but only for the entry, and formed a completely new team.  If you want to use Tyrrell, the date of inception would be 1970.

Caterham (as Lotus 2010)

Marussia (as Virgin 2010)



#147 SenorSjon

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 22:19

Mercedes had a team in the fifties, so the Tyrell slot should be fair.



#148 Gorma

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:55

If they do, I think the teams should get to choose based upon the length of time the team has been in the sport under at least partial  continuous ownership.  For example, though other people have bought and sold shares, Ron Dennis has been part owner of McLaren since 1980.

Then you should thake into account that Ferrari has been owned by FIAT for over 40 years.



#149 wrcva

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:37

Mods, can you add a poll to see how people feel about this?

 

- Assign numbers to teams

- Assign numbers to drivers

- No change / Keep it the same 



#150 ensign14

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:44

Not relevant to F1, but is 46 arguably the most iconic number in motorsports?

 

43.

 

Plus, of course, 14.