84 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

I'm mildly curious about that last bit of the proposed rules:

 

"Should the results of the season end up completely tied, then the FIA has the right to nominate the winner under any criteria that it deems appropriate."

 

Make the two drivers play best of three at paper, rock and scissors?

Give it to the one with the best haircut?

Arm wrestle for it?

[dau]

SUCH AN AWESOME IDEA!

It is same like winning an online match in Minecraft.

 

MY D*CK ALL DIAMOND.

I'm not sure a duck made out of diamond would be a good idea. For starters, it just wouldn't float.

[scheivlak]

I'm mildly curious about that last bit of the proposed rules:

 

"Should the results of the season end up completely tied, then the FIA has the right to nominate the winner under any criteria that it deems appropriate."

 

Make the two drivers play best of three at paper, rock and scissors?

Give it to the one with the best haircut?

Arm wrestle for it?

You might be surprised but the oficial WDC regulations have the same rule - article 7.2. of the Sporting Regulations:

 

"If two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to :

a) The holder of the greatest number of first places.

b) If the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second places.

c) If the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third places and so on until a winner emerges.

d) If this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to such criteria as it thinks fit."

[SophieB]

I am in fact surprised. It gives the impression that the powers-that-be got so far down the list of writing the rules before saying 'oh screw it, it'll never reach this stage anyway so that's enough work spent on this so we'll just busk it if needs be. Let's go get lunch.'

(I'm sure it actually all is very proper and thorough etc.)

[DampMongoose]

Which if Red Bull and Ferrari tied means the team CWC could accept leaving F1 would lose?

[noikeee]

I don't see the downside to a pole position trophy. Sure, it's not going to cure cancer, or F1's several major ills, but it's a nice little extra thing they can market F1 with. Just like that numbers thing. I think both are good ideas. Bizarre to get two good ideas by the FIA on Autosport on the same day. You usually get one of those per like, every 5 years.

[F1ultimate]

A trophy is meaningless. Why not award the pole sitter 3 points. It would do a better job incentivising drivers to push in Q3.

[hupholland]

Maybe rewarding a single pole is a good idea (not sure about that though), but rewarding the driver with most poles in one season doesn't make any sense to me.

[ANF]

I assume this Pole Position Trophy would be presented to the winner at the annual FIA Awards and, well, I'm falling asleep already just thinking about it.

[R Soul]

Points for qualifying? Lets say Vettel is 24 points ahead of Alonso, and already has 2 more victories. It's the final race of the year. The Red Bull has had a few reliability problems when pushed hard. Vettel gets pole position and Alonso is 2nd.

No points for pole position: Exciting race in store.*

Points for pole position: Championship over 24 hours before the race begins.

 

I know a driver could rekindle his championship by getting pole (bringing his points deficit under 25), but I'd rather see a championship won in the penultimate race than the final qualifying.

 

* Notwithstanding DRS and bad tyres.

 

(OT over)

 

A qualifying trophy would be worthless to the drivers. While races are started on qualifying tyres for the top 10, and the long-life component rules are in place etc, drivers will compromise qualifying if there could be an advantage in the race (e.g. save tyres). With genuinely separate sessions, they'll push in qualifying regardless of what trophies they can get.

Edited by R Soul, 28 November 2013 - 23:29.

[HP]

• It seems to me, FIA wants to keep us talking about something during break, Never mind it's not about something really important.
• If they really, really, really want to hand out a trophy, then to make that however remotely meaningful, they need to change a few rules in qualifying:
  
  a) Let them choose the tires they like, meaning they don't have to start on the tire they qualify with.
  b) Allow setup changes just for qualification, including engine mappings, etc. (but not changing parts)
  c) Change park ferme rules so that teams can revert the car to race setup, (Again, no changing parts allowed)
  
  It seems to me the old 12 laps qualification is better suited to this idea.

But the FIA please fix the racing before anything else.

[fabr68]

Points for pole is double dipping. Might as well award him with infinite kers use, extra batteries and a bigger bonus turbo.

Overkill IMHO

[fabr68]

On a separate note, the TV ratings for Saturday must be at an all time low. So they are scrambling for straws.

Killing the already dead Sunday race on Saturdays wont help things

[syolase]

On a separate note, the TV ratings for Saturday must be at an all time low. So they are scrambling for straws.

Killing the already dead Sunday race on Saturdays wont help things

I don't know the ratings, but in the last few races, the qualifiers were more exciting then the actual race. This Q1-Q2-Q3 thingy is pretty well thought out.

[Gyan]

On a separate note, the TV ratings for Saturday must be at an all time low. So they are scrambling for straws.

Killing the already dead Sunday race on Saturdays wont help things

 

Nah, don't think its for TV ratings. There aren't many end of the year awards so I think it's a move to rectify that. Could serve as a decent consolation.

 

The 'shoot-out' would increase TV ratings. All drivers in Q3 have one go, and the running order is 10-1 according to the times from Q2.

 

Not that I want to see the current format changed.

[scheivlak]

So how many WDCs would each driver have if there was a Pole Position World Championship?

 

Maybe will take some time one day and calculate it.

 

Just had a quick look, I think it would be a bit like this:

 

1950:  Fangio 4/7

1951:  Fangio 4/8

1952: Ascari 5/8

1953: Ascari 6/9

1954: Fangio 5/9

1955: Fangio 3/7

1956: Fangio 6/8

1957: Fangio 4/8

1958: Hawthorn 4/11

1959: Moss 4/9

1960: Moss 4/10

1961: P. Hill 5/8

1962: Clark 6/9

1963: Clark 7/10

1964: Clark 5/10

1965: Clark 6/10

1966: Brabham 3/9

1967: Clark 6/11

1968: Amon (!) 3/12

1969: Rindt (!) 5/11

1970: Stewart 4/11 with 3xp2 / 2. Ickx 4/11 with 1xp2

1971: Stewart 6/11

1972: Ickx (!) 4/12

1973: Peterson 9 (!) /15

1974: Lauda 9 (!) /15

1975: Lauda 9/14

1976: Hunt 8/16

1977: Andretti 7/16

1978: Andretti 8/16

1979: Jabouille (!) 4/15 with 1xp2 / 2. Lafitte 4/15 with 1xp3

1980: Arnoux (!) 3/14 with 3xp2 / 2. Jones 3/14 with 1xp2

1981: Arnoux (!) 4/15 with 2xp2 / 2. Piquet 4/15 with 1xp2

1982:  Prost 5/16 with 4xp2, 2xp3 and 2xp4 / 2. Arnoux with 5/16 with 4xp2, 2xp3 and 1xp4….

1983: Tambay (!) 4/16 with 4xp2 and 3xp3 / 2. Arnoux with 4/16 with 4xp2 and 1xp3

1984: Piquet 9 (!) /16

1985: Senna 7/16

1986: Senna 8/16

1987: Mansell 8/16

1988: Senna 13/16

1989: Senna 13/16

1990: Senna 10/16

1991: Senna 8/16

1992: Mansell 14/16

1993: Prost 13/16

1994: M.Schumacher 6/16

1995: D.Hill 7/16

1996: D.Hill 9/16

1997: J.Villeneuve 10/17

1998: Hakkinen 9/16

1999: Hakkinen 11/16

2000: M. Schumacher 9/16

2001: M. Schumacher 11/17

2002: M. Schumacher 7/17 with 5xp2 / 2. Montoya 7/17(!) with 1xp2

 

From 2003-2009 with race fuel in the single pole lap or Q3:

 

2003: M. Schumacher 5/16

2004: M. Schumacher 8/18

2005:  Alonso (!) 6/19

2006:  Alonso 6/18

2007: Hamilton 6/18 with 6xp2 / 2. Massa 6/18 with 1xp2

2008: Hamilton 7/18

2009: Vettel 4/17 with 4xp2 / 2. Button 4/17 with 1xp2 / 3. Hamilton 4/17 with 1xp3

 

2010: Vettel 10/19

2011: Vettel 15/19

2012: Hamilton 7/20

2013: Vettel 9/19

 

Close in every year in 1979-1983 and almost bizarrely close between the Renault team mates Prost and Arnoux in 1982, imagine JM Balestre supposing a tie break on say. who's the heaviest guy or who has the most followers on twitter ("Hein?!" "Qu'est-ce que c'est?!?!" "Mais c'est le futur! Simplement imaginez Microtel en 2013!")

 

Nice to see Chris Amon on this list, and funny to see the somewhat maligned champions Mike Hawthorn and Phil Hill clearly on top in their championship years. Note that JPM equalled Michael in 2002 - as far as pole positions were concerned.....

I guess Raikkonen misses out on 2005 because of all his engine blowups before Q3!

 

Looks like 2009 was the only year with a three-way tie......

Edited by scheivlak, 29 November 2013 - 00:44.

[hupholland]

surprised about 1995, Williams took almost all poles, but still Schumacher easily won the WDC. Thanks for the list!

[maximilian]

Not needed and mostly pointless.  I would like to see a point for fastest lap, though.

[TomNokoe]

I wonder if drivers will fight as hard for this trophy as they do for the DHL fastest lap trophy? Oooh the spectacle! Quali is brilliant at the moment but could be so much better. It was a little hollow in the refuelling days but now drivers should be rewarded for quali speed, it's an art. I'd go 5 points for pole, 3 for second and 1 for third. I'd also add a points bonus for reaching Q3 at every race (20/20races), because this is no easy feat. Every Q3 entrant should also be given a set of Q3 only soft tyres.

Edited by TomNokoe, 29 November 2013 - 08:34.

[sopa]

Interesting to learn that Jabouille got most poles in one season.

 

So most successful "Pole Position World Champions" of all times

 

1.-3. Fangio 6

1.-3. Senna 6

1.-3. M.Schumacher 6

4. Clark 5

5. Vettel 4

6. Hamilton 3

Then lots of guys on 2 titles.

 

Considering Vettel has a lot of interest in F1 history, maybe this is another thing he will start following and aim to beat.

 

 

I don't see the downside to a pole position trophy. Sure, it's not going to cure cancer, or F1's several major ills, but it's a nice little extra thing they can market F1 with. Just like that numbers thing. I think both are good ideas. Bizarre to get two good ideas by the FIA on Autosport on the same day. You usually get one of those per like, every 5 years.

 

Yeah, actually I agree. People complain about a meaningless thing here, even if the trophy doesn't mean much. What is particularly wrong with a trophy? I mean people get awarded and recognized in many fields in life for whatever they have done/achieved. Who with a medal, who with a paper, who with anything else. Just a nice moral appreciation for the Saturday winner, nothing to get worked up here. 

[SophieB]

I wonder if drivers will fight as hard for this trophy as they do for the DHL fastest lap trophy? Oooh the spectacle! Quali is brilliant at the moment but could be so much better. It was a little hollow in the refuelling days but now drivers should be rewarded for quali speed, it's an art. I'd go 5 points for pole, 3 for second and 1 for third. I'd also add a points bonus for reaching Q3 at every race (20/20races), because this is no easy feat. Every Q3 entrant should also be given a set of Q3 only soft tyres.

 

That is probably where it will succeed or fail, yes. If the drivers deem it worthwhile and prestigious, then the fans will get excited about it too, and this in turn will make the drivers even more keen to win and so on in a virtuous circle. If the drivers deem it a meaningless trinket, the fans will pick up on that too. So I think it could work well or it could turn out to be like that time in back 2011 when teams tried to make the race for second place in the WDC an exciting target to prolong fan interest and motivate their drivers, only to have Button, Alonso and Webber say, with differing degrees of politeness, that though they appreciated the WCC points were important, they didn't actually care about second place, either way.

[seahawk]

It does have no downside, so why not?

[redreni]

Interesting to learn that Jabouille got most poles in one season.
 
So most successful "Pole Position World Champions" of all times
 
1.-3. Fangio 6
1.-3. Senna 6
1.-3. M.Schumacher 6
4. Clark 5
5. Vettel 4
6. Hamilton 3
Then lots of guys on 2 titles.
 
Considering Vettel has a lot of interest in F1 history, maybe this is another thing he will start following and aim to beat.
 
 

 
Yeah, actually I agree. People complain about a meaningless thing here, even if the trophy doesn't mean much. What is particularly wrong with a trophy? I mean people get awarded and recognized in many fields in life for whatever they have done/achieved. Who with a medal, who with a paper, who with anything else. Just a nice moral appreciation for the Saturday winner, nothing to get worked up here.

To be fair, I haven‘t noticed anybody arguing that this would be bad for the sport as such, only that it wouldn‘t do any good, in other words, it would be pointless. I quite agree it‘s perfectly harmless, although I‘m not relishing the possibility that certain F1 journalists will be plied with complimentary finger food and refreshments by the pole trophy sponsor and will then lose their sense of persepective and start talking as if it meant something, which would be a mild annoyance. The poll question was whether it is a good idea. To me, a "good idea" has to be more than harmless but pointless.

[Dolph]

Alright so having reviewed the historical results for the pole trophy one can say that the WDC driver will most likely be also the pole trophy winner. So what is the god damn point then!?

 

90% of the time at the FIA gala: here's the WDC trophy and btw, also a wobbly plastic Santander Pole Trophy

10% of the time at the FIA gala: OK, you were second in the WDC and you lost at the last race by a whisker, but you did win the pole trophy - hands over the wobbly plastic Santander thingy. Now remember, its from recycled plastic! This used to be a bottle for beer, a cigarette lighter or a dildo.

[Kenstate]

starting 1st on the grid is the reward for getting pole position. Why do we need to emphasize it anymore than that?

 

Are they going to start awarding 2nd place in quali more points than the guy who got 3rd?

[dave34m]

Not needed and mostly pointless.  I would like to see a point for fastest lap, though.

 

never ever, not even
 

[Thomas99]

Congratulations to Rosberg for his pole trophy 

[Bleu]

He's not quite clinched it yet.

 

Rosberg has 9 poles, Hamilton 7.

Hamilton has 6 2nd places, Rosberg 4.

Rosberg has 3 3rd places.

 

 

Hamilton wins Pole Trophy if he takes pole in Interlagos and Abu Dhabi while Rosberg doesn't qualify on the front row in one of the races.

Edited by Bleu, 02 November 2014 - 08:14.

[Tommay]

I want to write a bitter comment ta out 3 major events in qually this year that makes this a little less valid. However Rosberg has been superb this year in qually, taking on someone whom is thought to be one of the best qualifiers and would still be fighting for this title even if you took these events out of the equation as he has beaten Lewis fair and square on numerous occasions.

Maybe the same can't be said for the WDC...

[DrProzac]

Why not, I see no harm.

[Dick Dastardly]

Back in the 70s for all F1 races in the UK [GPs & the non-championship races] they used to give 100 bottles of champagne to the pole sitter. This was taken from the times of all practice sessions, there being no specific qualifying sessions in those days.  

[OvDrone]

At least Rosberg wins something this year.

[F1 Mike]

"Should the results of the season end up completely tied, then the FIA has the right to nominate the winner under any criteria that it deems appropriate"

 

just out of curiosity, does that mean that in theory the FIA could call eenie meenie miny mo and deem it appropriate ?

[Spillage]

Kinda weird how it works out. At the start of the year I'd have predicted Hamilton would beat Rosberg in qualifying but they'd be evenly matched in the races. Instead, Hamilton has beaten Rosberg in the races but they've been evenly matched in qualifying.

[KingTiger]

No.