56 replies to this topic

[Icetrala]

There are strong rumors of Lotus and Caterham fusion according to finnish media Iltasanomat (http://www.iltasanom...8626345598.html)

 

Translated article:

Earlier this week AMuS reported that Sauber who is struggling financially might merge up with Marussia.

 

There are strong rumors about Lotus merging with Caterham. Lotus has already lost many engineers to Caterham because they couldn't pay the bills.

 

Lotus and Caterham fusion would make sense for Renault who has brought the engines for both teams.

 

Caterham has already a deal with Renault for next season. Lotus is struggling financially and is only team that doesn't have the engine deal for next season even though there is only two months left before pre-season tests start.

 

If Lotus fuse with Caterham and Sauber does the same with Marussia there would be only 18 drivers on the grid.

 

 

What do you think?

Edited by Icetrala, 29 November 2013 - 09:13.

[Gorma]

I don't think anyone wants anything to do with Lotus at the moment.

[Icetrala]

I don't think anyone wants anything to do with Lotus at the moment.

Might be.. And this is time of bullsh*t rumors because F1 season is over and news have to make up something.

[Jackmancer]

I think if teams are going to merge it'll be for 2015. But really, have some teams merged before?

[MikeV1987]

Whatever helps them survive, I'd rather have a few teams merge then losing them all together. I don't really know what Lotus & Sauber could gain from the others besides a "little" extra cash.

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 November 2013 - 09:39.

[DrF]

Not much point if they only run 2 cars.

[MikeV1987]

I don't think anyone wants anything to do with Lotus at the moment.

A team like Caterham or Marussia would want the infrastructure that Lotus and especially Sauber has.

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 November 2013 - 09:31.

[DanardiF1]

I think if teams are going to merge it'll be for 2015. But really, have some teams merged before?

 

Pacific and (the ashes of) Team Lotus in 95.

 

Scuderia Italia and Minardi. 1994

[dau]

A team like Caterham or Marussia would want that infrastructure that Lotus and especially Sauber has.

Marussia maybe, but Caterham have already invested millions in their own infrastructure.

Edited by dau, 29 November 2013 - 09:32.

[MikeV1987]

Marussia maybe, but Caterham have already invested millions in their own infrastructure.

I bet Caterham can't even afford to get the most out of it though, and it shows.

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 November 2013 - 09:34.

[FullThrottleF1]

I really only want 1 team to merge and that is really my limit, if we went down to nine teams I would definitely stop following.

[SenorSjon]

And we can't add GP2 at the risk of having those cars being faster than F1.

 

I don't think anyone wants to touch Lotus, not even with a 10ft pole.

[Reinmuster]

There are strong rumors about Lotus merging with Caterham. Lotus has already lost many engineers to Caterham because they couldn't pay the bills.

 

 

There is no point to merge if Caterham already got Lotus' engineers because merging requires them to acquire their debts too.

[MikeV1987]

I can see Renault really pushing for the merger. They want more exposure in F1 and they aren't all that happy with Red Bull IIRC.

[FullThrottleF1]

I could see both (Catherham and Lotus) merging and Renault rejoining as a team.

[Shiroo]

I could see both (Catherham and Lotus) merging and Renault rejoining as a team.

 

and call themself Alpine or Łada.

[johnmhinds]

I could see both (Catherham and Lotus) merging and Renault rejoining as a team.

 

What would Lotus have left to offer Caterham if Renault buys back its team from them?

[MikeV1987]

What would Lotus have left to offer Caterham if Renault buys back its team from them?

Two fast drivers that bring in a lot of money from sponsorship. 

Edited by MikeV1987, 29 November 2013 - 10:28.

[FullThrottleF1]

Alpine would be awesome :-). Blue and white livery.

[FullThrottleF1]

Alpine would be awesome :-). Blue and white livery.

 

What would Lotus have left to offer Caterham if Renault buys back its team from them?

Because Caterham and Renault are in a partnership, plus it would only do the team good to have a few more engineers.

[muramasa]

Catus

[johnmhinds]

Alpine would be awesome :-). Blue and white livery.

 

Because Caterham and Renault are in a partnership, plus it would only do the team good to have a few more engineers.

If Renault bought its way back into the sport they would be buying out Lotus, not Caterham...

[Shiroo]

If Renault bought its way back into the sport they would be buying out Lotus, not Caterham...

 

This. But I believe he meant "after fusion" team, so basically they would buy it from both of them 

 

I believe that Renault could easly cover all their debts if they would be really interested in coming back. I mean, their debt for a company like Renault isn't big. And whole structure etc. is better in Lotus/Benetton/Toleman/old-Renault than ever will be in Caterham most likely.

Edited by Shiroo, 29 November 2013 - 10:41.

[SenorSjon]

With all those shady debts? I don't think so.

[proviz]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: most of the time Ilta-Sanomat is not to be taken seriously in F1 matters. The writer in this particular case is definitely not what one might call a well-informed source.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Makes sense. Caterham could effectively be a B-Team to Lotus much like the RBR-STR relationship. They could filter down technical information, set up etc in exchange for shares funds/resources etc. Caterham could become a points scoring team and outdo Maurussia and earn money through Concorde and employees could recieve bonuses etc.

[Jvr]

and call themself Alpine or Łada.

How about VAZ, Volga or Zhiguli!

By the way Renault owns 25% of AvtoVAZ and the original design back in 1960's was a colloboration with Fiat....

Edited by Jvr, 29 November 2013 - 11:11.

[Rinehart]

If I was Tony Fernandez, I'd be happy to sit back and watch Lotus fall apart.

[FullThrottleF1]

How about VAZ, Volga or Zhiguli!

By the way Renault owns 25% of AvtoVAZ and the original design back in 1960's was a colloboration with Fiat....

If they called themselves 'Volga' and the car looked awful that would generate a few jokes ;-)

[tifosiMac]

Wouldn't this be ironic considering the legal battles they'be both had! lol.

[maverick69]

Perfect for Fernandes.

 

He moves the Catherham operation to Enstone with its better facilities - and he then frees up space at Leafield for the expanding road car business.

[dau]

I bet Caterham can't even afford to get the most out of it though, and it shows.

Merging with Lopez' Debts"R"Us isn't going to make them richer.Even without the debts, a merger would mean having to pay for two factories with only one team to generate revenue.

[alfa1]

Lotus ... is only team that doesn't have the engine deal for next season

 

 

That bit sounds important. 

I havn't followed the sport since it started, but I'm rather sure the cars need an engine.

It would be why Lotus want to merge, but I cant see why Caterham would want the debts that come with Lotus.

[Slackbladder]

Perfect for Fernandes.

 

He moves the Catherham operation to Enstone with its better facilities - and he then frees up space at Leafield for the expanding road car business.

 

Wouldn't Fernandes be better off waiting for Lotus to go bust, and then picking off the assets?

 

The fundamental problem is Lotus's debts. Unless a solution to those is found, lotus is in real trouble.

[maverick69]

Wouldn't Fernandes be better off waiting for Lotus to go bust, and then picking off the assets?

 

The fundamental problem is Lotus's debts. Unless a solution to those is found, lotus is in real trouble.

Absolutely. I forgot to add that bit.

[Nustang70]

I'm not sure how this makes sense on either side.  Fernandes has invested quite a lot in Caterham's infrastructure and personnel, and Lopez is only interested in selling a portion of Lotus if he can make a profit (which I can't see Fernandes agreeing to).  But, stranger things have happened, and F1 is in a very volatile period.  The RRA is basically in shambles, and half the grid is bordering on insolvency or mired in uncompetitiveness.  

[mechadaniel]

Wouldn't Fernandes be better off waiting for Lotus to go bust, and then picking off the assets?

 

What assets?

 

Enstone's only assets are it's workforce, and you don't need to buy the company to get them, they will probably go anywhere that will pay them on time, and they don't have to worry about their mortgage.

[dau]

What assets?

 

Enstone's only assets are it's workforce, and you don't need to buy the company to get them, they will probably go anywhere that will pay them on time, and they don't have to worry about their mortgage.

The factory?

[William Hunt]

The factory?

+ Windtunnel

[FerrariV12]

This was mentioned in a recent article on Autosport around the proposal for 8 teams running 3 cars. Lotus merging with Caterham, Red Bull absorbing Toro Rosso, and Marussia either disappearing or merging with someone else (e.g. Williams or Force India).

 

May strengthen the grid (and add two cars to our current total) but not sure if I'd be a fan. It may make sense in some ways but I worry it would be the start of a slippery slope of ending up with a DTM-like situation of just three different types of car and 6 to 8 examples of each. One of F1's few remaining unique attractions compared to other categories is the sheer variety (in terms of number of makes - WEC has more technical variety between designs), and it'd be a shame to lose that, and I value that more than having the grid even closer from front to back than it already is.

 

Of course if the alternative is having Marussia and Caterham go bust and disappearing anyway, then who knows.

Edited by FerrariV12, 29 November 2013 - 15:02.

[mechadaniel]

The factory?

You mean the physical building or the contents?

 

Skip to 1:45 to see the new Caterham machine shop:

http://www.youtube.c...ORa2cwGOI#t=105

 

Has anyone here done an recent factory tour of Enstone?

Edited by mechadaniel, 29 November 2013 - 15:06.

[Holdenboy]

Also saw this article about Marussia and Sauber, not sure how true it is.

 

http://www.gptoday.c...g_Sauber_merge/

 

 

Marussia could merge with Sauber leaving just ten teams on the 2014 Formula One grid, claims a report in the German media.

According to Auto Moto und Sport, Marussia - like many of their rivals - are struggling and face a budget of "76 million euros."

The team's Russian owners are keen to merge with another team and, having failed in a bid to do so with Williams, have targeted Sauber.

Journalist Michael Schmidt claims that "chief Andrei Cheglakov is reportedly fed up with needing to dig deep into his own pockets only to be down the field but he still wants to remain in Formula 1.

"He tried to buy Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff's shares at Williams, that's around 15 percent.

"Bernie Ecclestone is said to have endorsed the deal but Claire Williams rejected it as Williams want to remain independent."

The report continued claiming that Marussia have now set their sights on "joining forces" with Sauber, who are "looking for new sponsors and partners on the Russian market."

 

 

Edited by Holdenboy, 29 November 2013 - 15:07.

[Kingshark]

Loterham or Caterus. Which sounds better?

[Holdenboy]

Loterham or Caterus. Which sounds better?

Locaterusham

[eronrules]

Loterham or Caterus. Which sounds better?

1. caterus

"cat" and "uterus" put together. It is a phrase to show the strong emotion you feel inside when you see adorable pictures of cats out of nowhere.

*scrolling through pictures of cats* 
*sees gif of cat rolling around*

OH MY CATERUS.

[DinocoBlue]

Wouldn't this be ironic considering the legal battles they'be both had! lol.

I thought the exact same thing. The whole thing was a mess, and personally I would have preferred that Lotus Racing name stayed as it was, but what can you do.

 

It'd be a shame to have either team disappear.. it's a pity they can't both carry on - I appreciate that any team merging with another would be for cost cutting measures but what are the rules on a A & B teams?

[Amphicar]

You mean the physical building or the contents?

 

Skip to 1:45 to see the new Caterham machine shop:

http://www.youtube.c...ORa2cwGOI#t=105

 

Has anyone here done an recent factory tour of Enstone?

I had a tour four years ago and I can confirm that Enstone is a pretty impressive facility. Not as flashy as the McLaren Technology Centre but more impressive than either the Red Bull or Mercedes factories. Enstone has an on-site wind tunnel, unlike Red Bull, who have a tunnel 25 miles away at Thurleigh.

[SpaMaster]

I guess we can do away with Q3 then.. This would still mean reduction in the number of cars. So it is still not good news for F1. All these things underline the unsustainable financial state of F1.

[Nemo1965]

Here I come with my Carthago-speech: The tv-money in F1 should be equally divided between the teams, with bonuses for every year you have participated full seasons, and prize money for wins and championships directly after scoring them.

 

The money should not be payed after the year, but directly after very Grand Prix. 

[loki]

Locaterusham

Sounds like the name of an English village...