Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Race of Champions 2013 [event cancelled]


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#1 np93

np93
  • Member

  • 86 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 29 November 2013 - 18:05

So, we're a few weeks away from the RoC. Exciting stuff I know; all those ad breaks we're going to get have got me salivating already, as does the prospect of even more circuit flaws. In terms of actual champions competing so far, we've got :

 

2013 WRC Champion Sebastien Ogier

 

2013 WEC Champion and 9 time Le Mans Winner Tom Kristensen

 

2013 GP2 Champion Fabio Leimer

 

7 time F1 World Drivers' Champion Michael Schumacher

 

2 time DTM Champion Mattias Ekstrom

 

5 time GP Motorbike Champion Mick Doohan

 

4 time V8 Supercar Champion Jamie Whincup (competing for his 5th next weekend)

 

Formula Asia and Formula V6 Asia Champion Karun Chandhok.

 

Then there's the other guys.......... and girl:

 

David Coulthard, chin model.

 

Susie Wolff, the root of all evil according to race fans.

 

Narain Karthikeyan, gherkin extrordinaire.

 

And newcomer who has nothing to do with motorsport, but has actually gone quicker than any of the aforementioned without the aid of an engine, Felix Baumgartner. 

 

Sebastian Vettel is conspicuous in his absence, without him will there even be a team Germany to defend the Nations Cup? Romain Grosjean has also not signed on to defend his title of Champion of Champion. Will Schumi team up with Doohan to form some sort of over 40's super team? Is the inclusion of Baumgartner a snub to famed Hungarian ace Zsolt? Is this the weakest we've seen Team GB? If Susie Wolff wins, will it stop the never ending stream of insults? If Narain Karthikeyan wins, will I try and kill myself, thinking that it could never happen in any sane universe? Will Coulthard's chin fit in the buggy? Will it be more exciting than the F1 2013 season? By what order of magnitude would it be better if Takuma Sato showed up? Will it even go ahead following political protests in the stadium? 

 

The circuit: 

 

The controversy: http://www.bangkokpo...ded-on-saturday


Edited by np93, 29 November 2013 - 18:07.


Advertisement

#2 JHSingo

JHSingo
  • Member

  • 1,200 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 29 November 2013 - 19:28

So to compete at 'the race of champions' you don't have to be a champion, or indeed even be a racing driver. Because that makes sense.



#3 SebnandoKimilton

SebnandoKimilton
  • Member

  • 71 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 29 November 2013 - 19:30

So is it confirmed that Grosjean & Vettel are not going to be involved, or are they just not confirmed as of yet?

 

If they are not perhaps its an indicator of a busy schedule for the drivers over the winter in the simulators/training to be ready for the new cars.



#4 P0inters

P0inters
  • Member

  • 415 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 29 November 2013 - 19:39

Always look forward to it each year. Hopefully Schumi can finally win this thing. has it been confirmed if it will take place or not ?

Also , my bets on Ekstrom vs Schumi vs Kristensen.



#5 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,761 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 29 November 2013 - 19:59

I still miss ROC at Gran Canaria. And the good old RoC way to compete.
 

Racing Driver - Rally Driver - Motorcycle driver!



#6 np93

np93
  • Member

  • 86 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 29 November 2013 - 19:59

I don't think there's been any news on Vettel or Grosjean saying they won't show, but Vettel's been a staple since 2007 so I'd be surprised if he doesn't show up. I think there's going to be an announcement on Monday regarding whether it goes ahead or not, so it looks a bit up in the air at the moment. I was surprised to see Baumgartner in there, and I can only say it's a publicity stunt. Red Bull are sponsoring the event, so I guess they'd want one of their stars of the year there. I guess that's another reason why I believe Vettel will be there too.



#7 mangeliiito

mangeliiito
  • Member

  • 198 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 29 November 2013 - 19:59

Eki will wipe the floor with everyone.

#8 tghik

tghik
  • Member

  • 412 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 29 November 2013 - 21:44

Vettel 7 years and not even ROC championship. This shows that his talent is far from the greatest. I know some of will not like it but, I'm saying what I think: same conditions, no race engineer, no big budget, no Newey special mode "blown diffuser" requiring unnatural driving, same cars, same temperature and atmospheric conditions for 2 drivers, no specific electronic aid to help ... just straight forward driving as fast as you can to beat the other guy. Did I forget anything in the list, maybe someone can help. Maybe, just maybe Vettel does feel unsecure and doesn't show up anymore as to this day he can't prove the unbelievable qualifying that he is known for in RBR cars. What is interesting is that the RoC format is qualifing pure and simple. And I'm not writing this against Vettel, just to show how important the car and other resources are for someone's results in F1.



#9 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,723 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 November 2013 - 22:01

Vettel 7 years and not even ROC championship. This shows that his talent is far from the greatest. I know some of will not like it but, I'm saying what I think: same conditions, no race engineer, no big budget, no Newey special mode "blown diffuser" requiring unnatural driving, same cars, same temperature and atmospheric conditions for 2 drivers, no specific electronic aid to help ... just straight forward driving as fast as you can to beat the other guy. Did I forget anything in the list, maybe someone can help. Maybe, just maybe Vettel does feel unsecure and doesn't show up anymore as to this day he can't prove the unbelievable qualifying that he is known for in RBR cars. What is interesting is that the RoC format is qualifing pure and simple. And I'm not writing this against Vettel, just to show how important the car and other resources are for someone's results in F1.

 

It is all for fun dude.  Surely you aren't going to next rant that Alonso's talent is far from the greatest since Massa and others beat him at Karts last season... 



#10 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,761 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 29 November 2013 - 22:11

While I think tghik takes it far too long. It's not just fun for the drivers, they participate for the win.
I think it shows more that the versatility of F1 drivers might not be on top :)



#11 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 2,809 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 29 November 2013 - 22:31

Vettel 7 years and not even ROC championship. This shows that his talent is far from the greatest. I know some of will not like it but, I'm saying what I think: same conditions, no race engineer, no big budget, no Newey special mode "blown diffuser" requiring unnatural driving, same cars, same temperature and atmospheric conditions for 2 drivers, no specific electronic aid to help ... just straight forward driving as fast as you can to beat the other guy. Did I forget anything in the list, maybe someone can help. Maybe, just maybe Vettel does feel unsecure and doesn't show up anymore as to this day he can't prove the unbelievable qualifying that he is known for in RBR cars. What is interesting is that the RoC format is qualifing pure and simple. And I'm not writing this against Vettel, just to show how important the car and other resources are for someone's results in F1.

 

oh wait

 

  • no F1 car, no F1 track, no F1 engineering, not working over a whole weekend to find the perfect balance
  • getting drunk with Michael after the team win, seven years in a row
  • fun event, nobody cares, except some "serious" fans
  • Rally/Touring  drivers often won, because it's easy for them to switch cars with different styles
  • Kovalainen won against Schumacher one year, he was the best driver since then in F1  ;)

RoC only comparable in one aspect: Your driving a vehicle with four wheels :rotfl:



#12 rasul

rasul
  • Member

  • 955 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 29 November 2013 - 22:34

Vettel 7 years and not even ROC championship. This shows that his talent is far from the greatest. I know some of will not like it but, I'm saying what I think: same conditions, no race engineer, no big budget, no Newey special mode "blown diffuser" requiring unnatural driving, same cars, same temperature and atmospheric conditions for 2 drivers, no specific electronic aid to help ... just straight forward driving as fast as you can to beat the other guy. Did I forget anything in the list, maybe someone can help. Maybe, just maybe Vettel does feel unsecure and doesn't show up anymore as to this day he can't prove the unbelievable qualifying that he is known for in RBR cars. What is interesting is that the RoC format is qualifing pure and simple. And I'm not writing this against Vettel, just to show how important the car and other resources are for someone's results in F1.

+1

You're absolutely right. It's not like Vettel has won the Nations Cup ROC championship with Schumi for the last six years. I'm sure Michael and him  feel very insecure about the regrettable lack of success in  ROC and have to console themselves with their 11 WDCs in F1. 



#13 SebnandoKimilton

SebnandoKimilton
  • Member

  • 71 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 29 November 2013 - 22:50

+1

You're absolutely right. It's not like Vettel has won the Nations Cup ROC championship with Schumi for the last six years. I'm sure Michael and him  feel very insecure about the regrettable lack of success in  ROC and have to console themselves with their 11 WDCs in F1. 

Poor bastards.  :lol:



#14 joshb

joshb
  • Member

  • 3,286 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 29 November 2013 - 23:03

Vettel 7 years and not even ROC championship. This shows that his talent is far from the greatest. I know some of will not like it but, I'm saying what I think: same conditions, no race engineer, no big budget, no Newey special mode "blown diffuser" requiring unnatural driving, same cars, same temperature and atmospheric conditions for 2 drivers, no specific electronic aid to help ... just straight forward driving as fast as you can to beat the other guy. Did I forget anything in the list, maybe someone can help. Maybe, just maybe Vettel does feel unsecure and doesn't show up anymore as to this day he can't prove the unbelievable qualifying that he is known for in RBR cars. What is interesting is that the RoC format is qualifing pure and simple. And I'm not writing this against Vettel, just to show how important the car and other resources are for someone's results in F1.

At least he's in the race of Champions.....



#15 P0inters

P0inters
  • Member

  • 415 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 30 November 2013 - 00:11

To say they are not trying to win is extremely stupid. Do you think they are going to show up and half try for the win ? Of course not they are trying to beat each other , and this why I agree with Myrvold. I honestly think that this shows that there are other drivers out there who are top notch drivers and can compete against the F1 drivers. I also think the rally drivers show just how good they are here.



#16 tghik

tghik
  • Member

  • 412 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:32

It is all for fun dude.  Surely you aren't going to next rant that Alonso's talent is far from the greatest since Massa and others beat him at Karts last season... 

Always the same 2 excuses: it's only for fun and they get hammered, And no, I will not say Alonso's talent greater coz I don't know as long as they don't fight with the same stick. Alonso's results also depend on the equipment. As you see you were absolutely wrong about the "rant". I watched interview with Vettel last week when stated everything he does he tries to be the best at. Perfectionist. So no I don't believe not even 1 % he doen't care about his result in RoC. He cares a lot. I know I am a perfectionist. Took me years to finally learn to relax a little and care less about some results. And please don't tell me he cares only about getting the RoC team title and doesn't care about personal title, it's not him and we see it year after year. As for the fun part, it's one thing to drive once with your friends on the sand with some bike (where the purpose is to slide because that's what makes it fun) and do it year after year in front of millions, especially when it is called race of champions. And when you watch RoC you can feel that the drivers don't take it easy, they really push. The drivers are competitive by nature.


Edited by tghik, 30 November 2013 - 11:34.


#17 MrFondue

MrFondue
  • Member

  • 323 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:57

Always the same 2 excuses: it's only for fun and they get hammered, And no, I will not say Alonso's talent greater coz I don't know as long as they don't fight with the same stick. Alonso's results also depend on the equipment. As you see you were absolutely wrong about the "rant". I watched interview with Vettel last week when stated everything he does he tries to be the best at. Perfectionist. So no I don't believe not even 1 % he doen't care about his result in RoC. He cares a lot. I know I am a perfectionist. Took me years to finally learn to relax a little and care less about some results. And please don't tell me he cares only about getting the RoC team title and doesn't care about personal title, it's not him and we see it year after year. As for the fun part, it's one thing to drive once with your friends on the sand with some bike (where the purpose is to slide because that's what makes it fun) and do it year after year in front of millions, especially when it is called race of champions. And when you watch RoC you can feel that the drivers don't take it easy, they really push. The drivers are competitive by nature.

So Albuquerque is better driver than Vettel?



#18 st99

st99
  • Member

  • 379 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 30 November 2013 - 14:40

Yeah,if Vettel is so bad in the ROC, I don't know how Marcus Grönholm must feel after being beaten in his own car in the 2007 final (which Vettel won on his own because Schumacher lost to Kovalainen  :p )

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=HxCPuZVN-Kw

 

Seriously, this is in no way a determinating factor to know the drivers' abilities because one year one of them wins and maybe the following year the other wins, or even in consecutive races. If I remember correctly Team Germany beat Team France in the Nations Cup final but then they lost in the individual one.



#19 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:05

Vettel 7 years and not even ROC championship. This shows that his talent is far from the greatest. I know some of will not like it but, I'm saying what I think: same conditions, no race engineer, no big budget, no Newey special mode "blown diffuser" requiring unnatural driving, same cars, same temperature and atmospheric conditions for 2 drivers, no specific electronic aid to help ... just straight forward driving as fast as you can to beat the other guy. Did I forget anything in the list, maybe someone can help. Maybe, just maybe Vettel does feel unsecure and doesn't show up anymore as to this day he can't prove the unbelievable qualifying that he is known for in RBR cars. What is interesting is that the RoC format is qualifing pure and simple. And I'm not writing this against Vettel, just to show how important the car and other resources are for someone's results in F1.

 

Ok, i'm a bit lost here, so please help me. This was sarcasm, to poke fun at the people who think nowadays' RoC says much about driver skill, right? 



Advertisement

#20 tghik

tghik
  • Member

  • 412 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:42

Ok, i'm a bit lost here, so please help me. This was sarcasm, to poke fun at the people who think nowadays' RoC says much about driver skill, right? 

Not at all sarcasm. Neither I'm  saying RoC is determining factor as to driver abilities. But it says a lot. To prove the point let me say this: for so many years Schumi and Vettel together won the team RoC which to those that are their fans confirms their winnings in F1 which are 7 WDC and 4 WDC. So in theory if RoC ended on team's competition all would be great and confirming. But now somehow alone they can't win even 1 championship on their own for so many years. Schumi was close but no cigar. For me all makes sense however, team's result is the average and in this case if you get 1 great and 1 poor driver or average you will never win team RoC. You need 2 well over average drivers so for me it proves that Schumi and Vettel are in other words exceptionally good BUT not the greatest, as individual competition proves it. F1 distorts the image because all the drivers drive different equipments and this is why for example Button won his WDC. As you see everything falls in place.



#21 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 2,809 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 30 November 2013 - 17:49

Not at all sarcasm. Neither I'm  saying RoC is determining factor as to driver abilities. But it says a lot. To prove the point let me say this: for so many years Schumi and Vettel together won the team RoC which to those that are their fans confirms their winnings in F1 which are 7 WDC and 4 WDC. So in theory if RoC ended on team's competition all would be great and confirming. But now somehow alone they can't win even 1 championship on their own for so many years. Schumi was close but no cigar. For me all makes sense however, team's result is the average and in this case if you get 1 great and 1 poor driver or average you will never win team RoC. You need 2 well over average drivers so for me it proves that Schumi and Vettel are in other words exceptionally good BUT not the greatest, as individual competition proves it. F1 distorts the image because all the drivers drive different equipments and this is why for example Button won his WDC. As you see everything falls in place.

:lol:  can't stop laughing, and where is the dominating truly great driver winning all these event because he suffers from a bad team mate. If you have a closer look Schumacher was the most consistent driver over all these years, in the buggy he was nearly unbeatable, individual he was the best regarding F1 drivers, with a huge gap behind him, your theory makes no sense in this context, 



#22 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 30 November 2013 - 18:19

Not at all sarcasm. Neither I'm  saying RoC is determining factor as to driver abilities. But it says a lot. To prove the point let me say this: for so many years Schumi and Vettel together won the team RoC which to those that are their fans confirms their winnings in F1 which are 7 WDC and 4 WDC. So in theory if RoC ended on team's competition all would be great and confirming. But now somehow alone they can't win even 1 championship on their own for so many years. Schumi was close but no cigar. For me all makes sense however, team's result is the average and in this case if you get 1 great and 1 poor driver or average you will never win team RoC. You need 2 well over average drivers so for me it proves that Schumi and Vettel are in other words exceptionally good BUT not the greatest, as individual competition proves it. F1 distorts the image because all the drivers drive different equipments and this is why for example Button won his WDC. As you see everything falls in place.

So, uh, Heikki Kovalainen and Filipe Albuquerque must be among the greatest drivers, then?



#23 rasul

rasul
  • Member

  • 955 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 30 November 2013 - 18:26

Not at all sarcasm. Neither I'm  saying RoC is determining factor as to driver abilities. But it says a lot. To prove the point let me say this: for so many years Schumi and Vettel together won the team RoC which to those that are their fans confirms their winnings in F1 which are 7 WDC and 4 WDC. So in theory if RoC ended on team's competition all would be great and confirming. But now somehow alone they can't win even 1 championship on their own for so many years. Schumi was close but no cigar. For me all makes sense however, team's result is the average and in this case if you get 1 great and 1 poor driver or average you will never win team RoC. You need 2 well over average drivers so for me it proves that Schumi and Vettel are in other words exceptionally good BUT not the greatest, as individual competition proves it. F1 distorts the image because all the drivers drive different equipments and this is why for example Button won his WDC. As you see everything falls in place.

This logic lacks...logic. Sorry, but I can't even take you seriously, as it's obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Let's take last year's ROC.

Schumi beat Grosjean twice before the individual competition's final: once in the final of the Nations Cup as a part of Team Germany while Vettel beat Ogier, and once in the Group stage. And then he lost to Grosjean in the final part of ROC.

So Grosjean suddenly became a superior driver to Schumi and Vettel because he won against them in the individual competition? OK, mate. OK.



#24 Melchiot

Melchiot
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 30 November 2013 - 18:35

Vettel 7 years and not even ROC championship. This shows that his talent is far from the greatest. I know some of will not like it but, I'm saying what I think: same conditions, no race engineer, no big budget, no Newey special mode "blown diffuser" requiring unnatural driving, same cars, same temperature and atmospheric conditions for 2 drivers, no specific electronic aid to help ... just straight forward driving as fast as you can to beat the other guy. Did I forget anything in the list, maybe someone can help. Maybe, just maybe Vettel does feel unsecure and doesn't show up anymore as to this day he can't prove the unbelievable qualifying that he is known for in RBR cars. What is interesting is that the RoC format is qualifing pure and simple. And I'm not writing this against Vettel, just to show how important the car and other resources are for someone's results in F1.

 

 

Dont feed the troll



#25 Melchiot

Melchiot
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 30 November 2013 - 18:37

+1

You're absolutely right. It's not like Vettel has won the Nations Cup ROC championship with Schumi for the last six years. I'm sure Michael and him  feel very insecure about the regrettable lack of success in  ROC and have to console themselves with their 11 WDCs in F1. 

 

It is all for fun dude.  Surely you aren't going to next rant that Alonso's talent is far from the greatest since Massa and others beat him at Karts last season... 

 

 

oh wait

 

  • no F1 car, no F1 track, no F1 engineering, not working over a whole weekend to find the perfect balance
  • getting drunk with Michael after the team win, seven years in a row
  • fun event, nobody cares, except some "serious" fans
  • Rally/Touring  drivers often won, because it's easy for them to switch cars with different styles
  • Kovalainen won against Schumacher one year, he was the best driver since then in F1  ;)

RoC only comparable in one aspect: Your driving a vehicle with four wheels :rotfl:

 

 

Ops...too late



#26 tghik

tghik
  • Member

  • 412 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 30 November 2013 - 19:28

This logic lacks...logic. Sorry, but I can't even take you seriously, as it's obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Let's take last year's ROC.

Schumi beat Grosjean twice before the individual competition's final: once in the final of the Nations Cup as a part of Team Germany while Vettel beat Ogier, and once in the Group stage. And then he lost to Grosjean in the final part of ROC.

So Grosjean suddenly became a superior driver to Schumi and Vettel because he won against them in the individual competition? OK, mate. OK.

 

 

:lol:  can't stop laughing, and where is the dominating truly great driver winning all these event because he suffers from a bad team mate. If you have a closer look Schumacher was the most consistent driver over all these years, in the buggy he was nearly unbeatable, individual he was the best regarding F1 drivers, with a huge gap behind him, your theory makes no sense in this context, 

No you won't see pure domination per se as the differences between drivers are small, and you won't see for example 1 sec faster per lap then everybody. Let's take for example tennis, if you watch 1 set you wouldn't know who is better, if you take 1 game just maybe then if you take few games some pattern start emerging. Some players will go to tie-breaks almost all the time because the differences are so small but if you look at results from multi games you finally see that player is better than the other because he wins most. Same in motorsport. At this level the gap is miniscule between the best drivers. As to Grosjean, it is great that you gave that example. I said before, RoC is not the final answer, it just gets us closer to the truth. RoC does not give answer to 1 thing, 1 car can suit better one driver so to give you my answer Grosjean can be better in those less stiff bolids but in hard tarmac conditions it could be the other way around. Didn't you hear many times drivers say "this car doesn't suit my driving style". Or RoC is a mixture of different bolids, Vettel can be the best on tarmac in stiff suspension but he would have no chance in rally type bolid. It is hard to find one driver that can be superior in all formulas. Just look at Raikonen, considered great in F1 by some but average in rally. For me if you find one driver that shows the superiority in different types of motorsport you can call him the greatest, pound for pound best. Roc gives us some insight into this multi skill of a driver by providing this mixture of bolids. Unfortunately drivers in real world rarely jump from one type of formula to another, in recent times only Raikonen and Kubica jump to mind. Kubica just finished his learning year in rally, next year we will finally have answer what he is worth by mixing up with Ogier who is considered by some on the same level as Loeb. Next we will have Loeb going away from rallying, let's wait and see what he can do. He dominated rally world, can he do the same on hard surface WTCC?


Edited by tghik, 30 November 2013 - 19:38.


#27 rasul

rasul
  • Member

  • 955 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 30 November 2013 - 20:01

No you won't see pure domination per se as the differences between drivers are small, and you won't see for example 1 sec faster per lap then everybody. Let's take for example tennis, if you watch 1 set you wouldn't know who is better, if you take 1 game just maybe then if you take few games some pattern start emerging. Some players will go to tie-breaks almost all the time because the differences are so small but if you look at results from multi games you finally see that player is better than the other because he wins most. Same in motorsport. At this level the gap is miniscule between the best drivers. As to Grosjean, it is great that you gave that example. I said before, RoC is not the final answer, it just gets us closer to the truth. RoC does not give answer to 1 thing, 1 car can suit better one driver so to give you my answer Grosjean can be better in those less stiff bolids but in hard tarmac conditions it could be the other way around. Didn't you hear many times drivers say "this car doesn't suit my driving style". Or RoC is a mixture of different bolids, Vettel can be the best on tarmac in stiff suspension but he would have no chance in rally type bolid. It is hard to find one driver that can be superior in all formulas. Just look at Raikonen, considered great in F1 by some but average in rally. For me if you find one driver that shows the superiority in different types of motorsport you can call him the greatest, pound for pound best. Roc gives us some insight into this multi skill of a driver by providing this mixture of bolids. Unfortunately drivers in real world rarely jump from one type of formula to another, in recent times only Raikonen and Kubica jump to mind. Kubica just finished his learning year in rally, next year we will finally have answer what he is worth by mixing up with Ogier who is considered by some on the same level as Loeb. Next we will have Loeb going away from rallying, let's wait and see what he can do. He dominated rally world, can he do the same on hard surface WTCC?

Stop backtracking. :rolleyes: That is not what you were claiming at all.

You stated that the fact that Vettel and Schumi haven't won ROC's individual championship proved that they're not great drivers -- that they're just 2 above average drivers that make a good team. You claimed that the individual competition is what proves drivers' greatness. You implied that if a driver wins the individual competition in ROC, as opposed to the team one, then he can be called the "greatest." So explain to me how an above average driver (Schumi) had beaten the "great" Grosjean(the ROC champion) twice before the ROC's individual competition's final? Grosjean is the same driver that Schumi had beaten in the Nations Cup final, driving the very same car. Explain to me why the individual competition's winner(which is, according to you, is superior to the Team competetion) got beaten(twice) by the inferior "over average" driver like Schumi?

 

In other words, you take this meaningless competition way too seriously and twist its results to suit your agenda and ignore the results that don't suit it. 

You were very entertaining, thank you.  :wave:



#28 Wanderer

Wanderer
  • Member

  • 292 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 30 November 2013 - 20:05

RoC does not give answer to 1 thing, 1 car can suit better one driver so to give you my answer Grosjean can be better in those less stiff bolids but in hard tarmac conditions it could be the other way around. 

 

That's mind-blowing. 

 

You should write professional articles to enlighten a bigger readership.



#29 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 1,506 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 30 November 2013 - 20:13

ROC looks ridiculously fun, some fans take it a little too serious it seems. 


Edited by MikeV1987, 30 November 2013 - 20:20.


#30 Option1

Option1
  • Member

  • 13,264 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 30 November 2013 - 20:38

Dont feed the troll 12 year old.

Seriously, anyone who takes the RoC seriously probably also believes they're the greatest driver of all time 'cause they once beat the Vettel and Schumi AI drivers in a computer game.  AND SO WHAT IF IT WAS IN EASY MODE!?!!

 

Neil



#31 tghik

tghik
  • Member

  • 412 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 30 November 2013 - 22:10

Seriously, anyone who takes the RoC seriously probably also believes they're the greatest driver of all time 'cause they once beat the Vettel and Schumi AI drivers in a computer game.  AND SO WHAT IF IT WAS IN EASY MODE!?!!

 

Neil

Somehow Schumi and Vettel take it seriousely enough to win team RoC year after year. But when it goes for individual they don't give an egg ? When you listen to them you see competitivness in their eyes. Also a perfectionist like Vettel wouldn't like to win at leat one ? He likes those titles, all of them and knowibg his competitive nature I don't believe for a minute he doesn't take it 100 %.

 

Stop backtracking. :rolleyes: That is not what you were claiming at all.

You stated that the fact that Vettel and Schumi haven't won ROC's individual championship proved that they're not great drivers -- that they're just 2 above average drivers that make a good team. You claimed that the individual competition is what proves drivers' greatness. You implied that if a driver wins the individual competition in ROC, as opposed to the team one, then he can be called the "greatest." So explain to me how an above average driver (Schumi) had beaten the "great" Grosjean(the ROC champion) twice before the ROC's individual competition's final? Grosjean is the same driver that Schumi had beaten in the Nations Cup final, driving the very same car. Explain to me why the individual competition's winner(which is, according to you, is superior to the Team competetion) got beaten(twice) by the inferior "over average" driver like Schumi?

 

In other words, you take this meaningless competition way too seriously and twist its results to suit your agenda and ignore the results that don't suit it. 

You were very entertaining, thank you.  :wave:

if I am bactracking that would be great as 99% can't do that. But I don't, I like to discuss things and learn. I am a designer/engineer and I solve problems daily by analysing, that's what engineering is. So discussing argumenting with solid data is what I like. As to RoC I didn't backtrack, I said RoC is not perfect, but it gives good idea about few things especially that conditions are the same for everybody. And as I said when they give the same recources to everybody, and your sample size is big enough some patterns emerge and conclusions can be made. And for me sample is big enough, Vettel for example 7 RoC invitations. Once again taking tennis as parallel 3 matches between Nadal and Federer if one wins 2 and the other 1, one can argue 3 is small sample. But 7 is significant enough. Loeb took part in RoC 5 times and from those he won 3 individual titles. Vettel 7 won 0. Some of course will try to ignore it as fun but as stated earlier they cared about winning team titles multiple times but not individual ? Not in hell, So can't explain by this and can;t explain this by different bolids as conditions as the same, or by race engineer as there is none or by co-pilot (like rally) as there is none or by character as Vettel is perfectionist, he tries to win all of them. The only thing that could have impact is that Vettel has no superior driving skills for soft suspension cars. For some it may sound like I am aiming at german drivers, I am not. I wish Alonso was involved or Hamilton, and if I saw 0 wins in 7 attempts and someone else 3 wins in 5 attempts, you would see the same text from me. I try to be objective, no agenda what so ever. BTW I wish we could see Raikonen Hami Alonso Kubica in RoC, i REALLY wish ... same conditions for everbody...


Edited by tghik, 30 November 2013 - 22:28.


#32 Racer3

Racer3
  • Member

  • 383 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 30 November 2013 - 23:27

Yeah,if Vettel is so bad in the ROC, I don't know how Marcus Grönholm must feel after being beaten in his own car


http://www.youtube.c...h?v=HxCPuZVN-Kw

 

****ing awesome, thanks for the link...



#33 RosannaG

RosannaG
  • Member

  • 713 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 01 December 2013 - 07:34

I attended the two RoC held in Düsseldorf and I enjoyed myself very much.

 

For me, RoC is a fun event, nothing more, nothing less.



#34 quidam

quidam
  • Member

  • 188 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 01 December 2013 - 08:57

Are you sure ROC 2013 will take place  :smoking:

 

 

Richard Barrow ‏@RichardBarrow

3:30pm - RT @newley: More tear gas at Government House pic.twitter.com/tYzjizKGuR #Bangkok


Edited by quidam, 01 December 2013 - 09:08.


#35 P0inters

P0inters
  • Member

  • 415 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 01 December 2013 - 17:33

F**k. Praying it will happen. Looking unlikely now though.



#36 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,378 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 01 December 2013 - 17:55

Why doesn't Fernando or Kimi compete....



#37 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,761 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 01 December 2013 - 17:58

Why doesn't Fernando or Kimi compete....

Have a Ferrari-driver ever done it? Don't think so.

Fernando have done it, he have also won the nations cup (When RoC was truly RoC with Rally, Racing & Motorcycle drivers/riders)


Edited by Myrvold, 01 December 2013 - 17:58.


#38 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 2,809 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 01 December 2013 - 18:14

Have a Ferrari-driver ever done it? Don't think so.

Fernando have done it, he have also won the nations cup (When RoC was truly RoC with Rally, Racing & Motorcycle drivers/riders)

 

Ferrari god him self Michael Schumacher (2004), maybe, but just a guess  ;)



#39 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 1,952 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 01 December 2013 - 18:22

... time to get out this song again

 

 

I enjoyed last years RoC even tho the Sat. 1 commentary was crappy as hell


Edited by Sin, 01 December 2013 - 18:23.


Advertisement

#40 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 3,529 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 01 December 2013 - 19:13

Vettel 7 years and not even ROC championship. This shows that his talent is far from the greatest. I know some of will not like it but, I'm saying what I think: same conditions, no race engineer, no big budget, no Newey special mode "blown diffuser" requiring unnatural driving, same cars, same temperature and atmospheric conditions for 2 drivers, no specific electronic aid to help ... just straight forward driving as fast as you can to beat the other guy. Did I forget anything in the list, maybe someone can help. Maybe, just maybe Vettel does feel unsecure and doesn't show up anymore as to this day he can't prove the unbelievable qualifying that he is known for in RBR cars. What is interesting is that the RoC format is qualifing pure and simple. And I'm not writing this against Vettel, just to show how important the car and other resources are for someone's results in F1.

 

:rotfl:  :rotfl: Did you actually watch ROC over the past years? Your argument (if it has any value at all) will backfire, because Vettel was very good there. MS & Vettel won the nations cup 6 times in a row. They didn't win everything (whether it is because they usually get drunk after the first night is up for speculation ;) ), but the majority of their races.



#41 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,723 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:52

... time to get out this song again

 

I enjoyed last years RoC even tho the Sat. 1 commentary was crappy as hell

 

It is never time for that song... :p

 

 

Any Word On Whether ROC is happening.  Bangkok sounds as if it is momentarily politically unstable.  Perhaps waiting till march is best.


Edited by bourbon, 02 December 2013 - 06:54.


#42 santababy

santababy
  • Member

  • 419 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 02 December 2013 - 10:17

Situation not pretty in Bangkok.
Wonder if ROC will happen.

#43 Victor_RO

Victor_RO
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,812 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:02

Autosport's @EliGP reporting on Twitter that the RoC has been cancelled. https://twitter.com/...464551786242048

 

EDIT: Official RoC website also has the headline, "Update: ROC 2013 cannot take place as planned on December 14-15 due to the current political situation in Bangkok"



#44 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,723 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:13

ROC Website:  http://www.raceofcha...013-update.aspx

 

Good decision.  :up:



#45 sportyskells

sportyskells
  • Member

  • 160 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 02 December 2013 - 16:28

so want will ROC do now we know its not taking place as planned, will next years event be moved to a safer place to avoid something like this to happen again and will we get a new date for this years one?



#46 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 02 December 2013 - 16:53

Wow, that's disgusting. Who would have thought Vettel would go as far as inciting riots just to not risk being beaten again at the RoC?



#47 michal2009b

michal2009b
  • Member

  • 86 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 02 December 2013 - 18:34

Everything went wrong in 2013.. After terrible F1 season we have RoC cancelled.



#48 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,610 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 02 December 2013 - 19:34

Time to take this event back to its home in Gran Canaria and away from random faceless stadiums in random countries. 



#49 SonnyViceR

SonnyViceR
  • Member

  • 1,387 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 02 December 2013 - 19:38

Time to take this event back to its home in Gran Canaria and away from random faceless stadiums in random countries. 

 

And Dakar back to Dakar.



#50 Sin

Sin
  • Member

  • 1,952 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 02 December 2013 - 22:07

`sigh* should have stayed in Düsseldorf