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McLaren MP4-29


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#51 BillBald

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 00:06

 

I think continuing this will change the thread in a very dangerous way, I mean it will bring back the never-ending discussion of last year. In 2012 the team or let me say Martin Whitmarsh decided the team must put all the resources (financial and human resources) into solving one particular problem (in this race JB had an oversteering problem, in that race he suffered from understeering therefore he had a difficult qualifying session and couldn't make the positions lost in the race; in that particular race his front tires were below optimal temperatures, the next race we found out actually he was suffering from over-heated tires, …)  and the problem was never really solved as we still could hear Button complaining about the car over and over. If they'd put that amount of resources into developing the car for both drivers they could have won the WDC not two race wins and some good races for Button. The other mistake they made in 2012 was they didn't think their brand-new design was good enough so they made their minds as soon as Monaco Grand Perix, after only five races for a new concept (or maybe sooner) as we saw they tested sight blockers for 2013 – the high nose concept. This is how I know they didn't have a clear mind and if they'd done a perfect job they would have ended RBR’s dominance.
But again let’s hope they've learnt something from that mate. :up:

 

 

Well, this is close to being off-topic...

 

But I would like to point out that in 2012 they did not have a problem developing the car, they did a good job.

 

The problems were with race operations and reliability.

 

I agree that we do have to hope that they've learned something.



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#52 Force Ten

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 00:36

 

As mentioned in my previous post we can discuss it forever but this thread is about MP4-29A so I'm not continuing it any longer. It was just my opinion on McLaren's 2012 mistakes bogi. :wave:

 

So what you basically did was a "hit and run"? - Hey, let's run in quickly and pile a bit of crap onto the Whitmarsh-Button combo and then run out just as fast hiding behind the "off topic" excuse!



#53 rhukkas

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 00:43

The front of the cars will be revolting... hence 'different'. We all know this is coming. 



#54 Nobody

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:21

Any word on the front suspension? Push or pull?



#55 DanardiF1

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:54

Any word on the front suspension? Push or pull?

 

With the bulkhead height dropping so dramatically, extreme suspension geometries should (hopefully as they look stupid and are compromised mechanical designs) disappear, so either should be feasible. Pullrod was a strange decision on both Ferrari and McLaren's part for the current cars as the steep wishbone angles and shallow geometry of the actual pullrod created very poor mechanical grip in comparison to a more conventional, if still geometrically poor, pushrod system. The assumed aero benefit was clearly negligable as both team's cars have been poorer for carrying it.

 

I would go with a pull rod with a lower chassis as the COG is quite good and the geometry much better for it to work.



#56 mp4x

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 10:52

So what you basically did was a "hit and run"? - Hey, let's run in quickly and pile a bit of crap onto the Whitmarsh-Button combo and then run out just as fast hiding behind the "off topic" excuse!

Well, this is one way to look at it.
If the Moderators allow it I'll continue.  ;)


#57 ch103

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:47

I don't want to be a killjoy, but the same thing is said every year "its going to be different" but then when unveiled theres not that much differences.

 

Also, lets not forget that the car on launch day is usually a Frankenstein type car with many of the previous years parts bolted onto it.  We wont truly know what the 29 will look like until March in Melbourne.



#58 onewingedangel

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 13:06

I don't think they could really mock up a car for the launch this coming year - they can't use last years wings due to regulation changes.

 

We'll likely see at launch the spec to be tested in Jerez - and rapid evolution thereafter.



#59 GlenP

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 13:38

With the bulkhead height dropping so dramatically, extreme suspension geometries should (hopefully as they look stupid and are compromised mechanical designs) disappear, so either should be feasible. Pullrod was a strange decision on both Ferrari and McLaren's part for the current cars as the steep wishbone angles and shallow geometry of the actual pullrod created very poor mechanical grip in comparison to a more conventional, if still geometrically poor, pushrod system. The assumed aero benefit was clearly negligable as both team's cars have been poorer for carrying it.

 

I would go with a pull rod with a lower chassis as the COG is quite good and the geometry much better for it to work.

Not sure that is correct - it was said (can't remember where, might have been Gary Anderson) that it was not difficult to make the angles work and the pull-rod was not a disadvantage on that score alone. Serviceability is an issue, not much else.

 

Also - you are only assuming that the cars were worse for pull-rod. They may have been even worse with push rod for all you know.



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#60 10e10

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 13:43

Also, lets not forget that the car on launch day is usually a Frankenstein type car with many of the previous years parts bolted onto it.  We wont truly know what the 29 will look like until March in Melbourne.

 

I agree. The thing I'm most looking forward is the new title sponsor and livery.



#61 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 14:02

 

Well, this is one way to look at it.
If the Moderators allow it I'll continue.  ;)

 

There is nothing to stop you doing so by PM.  I have asked Force Ten to let me know how that goes.



#62 ZionLH

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 14:04

' Different ' as in radical or 2014 design look, i hope lightning doesn't strike twice.



#63 Owen

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 16:31

“By seeking and blundering we learn.”
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

I hope.



#64 Lemans

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 16:48

Sorry guys, a bit off-topic but any news/rumours on who the new title sponsor will be?

Are we still set for a December announcement?



#65 Markn93

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 16:58

Whitmarsh hinted the announcement would be incorporated into the launch.



#66 WitnessX

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:02

Sorry guys, a bit off-topic but any news/rumours on who the new title sponsor will be?

Are we still set for a December announcement?

Currently being discussed in this thread:

 

http://forums.autosp...-mclaren/page-6



#67 WitnessX

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:17

Not sure that is correct - it was said (can't remember where, might have been Gary Anderson) that it was not difficult to make the angles work and the pull-rod was not a disadvantage on that score alone. Serviceability is an issue, not much else.

 

Also - you are only assuming that the cars were worse for pull-rod. They may have been even worse with push rod for all you know.

Even that turned out not be as bad as originally thought (apparently they could change torsion bars in under ten minutes):

 

http://www.formula1....3/912/1131.html

 

I would say that the "geometry" of the front suspension must have been decided first, and then the best fit for that (push/pull) was decided.

 

From what I can see is that its a question of weight and the positioning of the rod in the airflow. They will now know the pro's and con's of each and will choose the appropriate that fits the rest of the car best.

 

The MP4/4 was pull rod and it certainly didn't appear to hinder that car. 



#68 dau

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:29

With the bulkhead height dropping so dramatically, extreme suspension geometries should (hopefully as they look stupid and are compromised mechanical designs) disappear, so either should be feasible. Pullrod was a strange decision on both Ferrari and McLaren's part for the current cars as the steep wishbone angles and shallow geometry of the actual pullrod created very poor mechanical grip in comparison to a more conventional, if still geometrically poor, pushrod system. The assumed aero benefit was clearly negligable as both team's cars have been poorer for carrying it.

 

I would go with a pull rod with a lower chassis as the COG is quite good and the geometry much better for it to work.

The 2014 bulkhead is only 2.5cm 10cm lower, that's not going to change much regarding wishbone angles. Not sure it's that much of a problem either, we haven't seen horizontal wishbones for years close to a decade now and the teams have obviously gotten used to those mechanically more compromised designs.


Edited by dau, 02 December 2013 - 21:25.


#69 McLarenNo1

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:34

Different?  Is this one fast then?

It will make corners that weren't a challenge for the MP4-28, a challenge so most likely slower. Might be more competitive compared to this season though, might be worse, won't really have a good idea until testing starts.



#70 Lazy

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 19:01

It will make corners that weren't a challenge for the MP4-28, a challenge so most likely slower. Might be more competitive compared to this season though, might be worse, won't really have a good idea until testing starts.

Australia.



#71 ATM_Andy

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 19:21

' Different ' as in radical or 2014 design look, i hope lightning doesn't strike twice.

You'll be able to tell before the drapes come off.



#72 ATM_Andy

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 19:23

Different?  Is this one fast then?

:smoking: be hard to be much sloiwer!



#73 Lemans

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 19:31

You'll be able to tell before the drapes come off.

Hi Andy. I'm not sure if you're allowed to answer this but, in your personal opinion, is it pretty?



#74 Alburaq

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 21:10

The 2014 bulkhead is only 2.5cm lower, that's not going to change much regarding wishbone angles. Not sure it's that much of a problem either, we haven't seen horizontal wishbones for years close to a decade now and the teams have obviously gotten used to those mechanically more compromised designs.

10cm lower.



#75 Markn93

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 21:23

You'll be able to tell before the drapes come off.

Love it  :up:

 

Keep the teases coming  :clap:



#76 dau

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 21:24

10cm lower.

Ah, you're right, my mistake. Confused it with the height in front of the bulkhead. 


Edited by dau, 02 December 2013 - 21:24.


#77 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 21:27

You'll be able to tell before the drapes come off.

 

I'm so excited  :stoned:



#78 M2B

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 21:28

You'll be able to tell before the drapes come off.

 

So something similar to MP4-26.  :p


Edited by M2B, 02 December 2013 - 21:28.


#79 charly0418

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 22:54

:smoking: be hard to be much sloiwer!

 

not really!



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#80 jrg19

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 22:59

:smoking: be hard to be much sloiwer!

 

So the 29 will be quicker than the 28 even though cars are set to be 5+ seconds slower…  :eek:



#81 mp4x

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 23:06

You'll be able to tell before the drapes come off.

In 2012 we hoped for a jet fighter sidepod design and we didn't get it so I hope this time it's something especial. Can't wait to see team's (hopefully) masterpiece. :clap:


#82 noikeee

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 23:53

So the 29 will be quicker than the 28 even though cars are set to be 5+ seconds slower…  :eek:

 

I was gonna post this. Omg it's 1988 all over again.  :eek:



#83 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:30

Sorry guys, a bit off-topic but any news/rumours on who the new title sponsor will be?
Are we still set for a December announcement?


Word is it's probably Samsung.

Also of note, Prodromou is bringing his right hand man with him to McLaren, Dan Fallows.

#84 maverick69

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:48

 

In 2012 we hoped for a jet fighter sidepod design and we didn't get it so I hope this time it's something especial. Can't wait to see team's (hopefully) masterpiece. :clap:

 

 

The original leak about the '27 was something along the lines of "Sidepods like a Jump-Jet". Most people took that to mean the inlets - and the debate and speculation went from there...... when in fact it was a reference to the "nozzle" style semi-coanda exhausts.



#85 DanardiF1

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:49

Word is it's probably Samsung.

Also of note, Prodromou is bringing his right hand man with him to McLaren, Dan Fallows.

 

I suspect Red Bull's dominant period may be coming to an end... the group that has been together under Newey since he joined in 2006 is starting to break up and head off for promotions/new challenges. Very hard to replace some of these guys no matter what money you have. Shrewd of McLaren as well.



#86 Mc_Silver

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:33

Word is it's probably Samsung.

Also of note, Prodromou is bringing his right hand man with him to McLaren, Dan Fallows.

 

Dan Fallows: Team Leader, Aerodynamics - Red Bull Racing

 

 

 

According to the publication, after a meeting that involved Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Dietrich Mateschitz, Dan Fallows opted to turn off the taurine team at the end of this season. "Two weeks ago Peter Prodromou opted to go to McLaren. This weekend it was time for Dan Fallows in denying contract with Red Bull and go toward the Woking team. Fallows played the role of Assistant Engineer since 2006. He worked with the defunct Prodromou Jaguar and Red Bull, "he added.

 

 

http://f1team.leiaja...para-a-mclaren/

 

He will be another great contribution for Macca.  :up:


Edited by Mc_Silver, 03 December 2013 - 07:33.


#87 chumma

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:07

Samsung eh...i only read that once a few weeks ago, then it was sony, then nothing since, and apparently its a 'no brainer' so surely thats gotta mean GSK of some sort? I like all these Red Bull fellas coming to woking though, hopefully this brings great things!



#88 Owen

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:10

Word is it's probably Samsung.

Also of note, Prodromou is bringing his right hand man with him to McLaren, Dan Fallows.

Great info Crucial thanks!  :up:  Nice to be on the receiving end of a brain drain rather than the other way round.



#89 stanga

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:35

I hope McLaren do produce something that looks radical. It's been a while since the MP4-26 and subsequent talk of 'different' looking cars haven't really come to much.



#90 jjcale

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:39

Come on then Andy. Don't be a tease. Give us a little crumb..........  :smoking:

 

Welcome to the 2013/14 edition of "Andy's Fan Dance"....



#91 M2B

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 18:17

Prodromou, Fallows, Morris and other unannounced engineers. Maybe Brawn is one of them. This is getting goooooood.  :smoking:



#92 pup

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 21:48

Word is it's probably Samsung.

 

Honda is one of Apple's partners in getting iOS in cars, so that might be a conflict.



#93 Schumster

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 22:02

Jesus, car reveals in just over a month and a half? That's quick.



#94 Lemans

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 22:45

Sidepods will certainly be larger this year. I'm wondering if some of Matt Morris' experience with the slim-line Sauber sidepods will have had any influence on the MP4/29?

 

Regardless, I'm excited. New car launch period has always been my favourite part of the F1 season.



#95 klyster

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 00:24

Honda is one of Apple's partners in getting iOS in cars, so that might be a conflict.

 

Samsung mobile have 14 billion to spend on marketing in the upcoming year, I'm sure McLaren won't be too worried about hurting apples feelings for a portion of that sum..

 

Thanks for the insider info Andy  :wave:


Edited by klyster, 04 December 2013 - 00:26.


#96 OO7

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:16

You'll be able to tell before the drapes come off.

article-0-19AE3694000005DC-403_634x423.j



#97 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:13

Gazzetta reports Ron Dennis is trying to bring Ross Brawn to McLaren for 2015.

 

b4ycno.jpg

via Jose Luisf1



#98 dau

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:56

article-0-19AE3694000005DC-403_634x423.j

Ooooh, is it a pony?



#99 femi

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:57

Different?  Is this one fast then?

It will be certainly be fast but certainly not fast enough.



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#100 Lemans

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 14:25

Ooooh, is it a pony?

:lol: