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McLaren MP4-29


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#151 mp4x

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 23:04

dvjt.jpg ;-)

I’m not a Formula One engineer but let’s see; it’s a slot and has hole(s) and it’s controversial. It’s definitely something that is already banned, some sort of F-duct or blowing diffuser. I personally think it’s the latter because you don’t spend hundreds of millions and almost three and half year time and then suddenly forget about it.


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#152 Timstr11

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:21

dvjt.jpg ;-)

 

 

It's a secret shiny thing, with a hole in it, or it a slot... Hmmmm controversial

 

Looks like an electron microscopic picture.

A ''shiny thing, with a hole in it'': a needle?

 

You got to give us a bit more ATM_Andy.



#153 Nobody

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:37

holes :up:



#154 Lazy

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:51

Maybe a sensor tip of some sort, or an injector.



#155 syolase

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 13:19

dvjt.jpg ;-)

 

Its a piece of carbon (look at the pattern of the material) with a very small cut in it. My tip its a cut in the floor.



#156 Lazy

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 15:37

Its a piece of carbon (look at the pattern of the material) with a very small cut in it. My tip its a cut in the floor.

You're right it's a slot, I was thinking it was on object.


Edited by Lazy, 27 December 2013 - 18:22.


#157 sopa

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:58

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111972

 

Interesting insight. So in short - lack of long-term vision was the problem. Teams, drivers, and everyone always have performance ups-and-downs. You can't really get distracted by this and let the big picture loose.

 

Wonder, what will 2014 bring.



#158 BillBald

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 14:58

You're right it's a slot, I was thinking it was on object.

 

I was thinking it was a photoshop!

 

When the car is revealed, do you think we will be able to see if this is on the car?



#159 BillBald

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 15:28

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111972

 

Interesting insight. So in short - lack of long-term vision was the problem. Teams, drivers, and everyone always have performance ups-and-downs. You can't really get distracted by this and let the big picture loose.

 

Wonder, what will 2014 bring.

 

MW:

"We took a car that wasn't good enough and made it worse in my opinion, to be frank about it."

 

That's telling it like it is.

 

Are things going to be different this year? Or are they going to find more ways of making things worse?

 

If the car starts out more competitive, both car development and race strategy should be easier. But they could easily panic for the opposite reason, if they find themselves leading races. We will soon know if they've got the decision-making sorted out.



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#160 mp4x

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 22:13

 

 

Are things going to be different this year?

 

 

 
Let's hope we won't have a McLaren Race Operation thread this year.


#161 BillBald

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 00:01

 

 
Let's hope we won't have a McLaren Race Operation thread this year.

 

 

Well, we'll need a thread to celebrate their brilliance!



#162 DiiF

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 01:20

Its a piece of carbon (look at the pattern of the material) with a very small cut in it. My tip its a cut in the floor.

 

I agree, it looks like a microscopic photo of carbon. Perhaps carbon nanotubes, i heard they have aerodynamic potential/properties, specially under stress (deflection)...   ;)



#163 chumma

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:10

looks like a turd! lets hope its a fast one!



#164 mlsnoopy

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 11:17

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/111972

 

Interesting insight. So in short - lack of long-term vision was the problem. Teams, drivers, and everyone always have performance ups-and-downs. You can't really get distracted by this and let the big picture loose.

 

Wonder, what will 2014 bring.

 

Need to scratch the itch.  :mad:



#165 peroa

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 12:01

MW:

"We took a car that wasn't good enough and made it worse in my opinion, to be frank about it."

 

That's telling it like it is.

 

Are things going to be different this year? Or are they going to find more ways of making things worse?

 

If the car starts out more competitive, both car development and race strategy should be easier. But they could easily panic for the opposite reason, if they find themselves leading races. We will soon know if they've got the decision-making sorted out.

Well, it was very close to being just good enough.



#166 Lazy

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 13:46

Well, it was very close to being just good enough.

Just good enough for what?



#167 BillBald

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 17:59

Just good enough for what?

 

Good enough to win both titles, if only Lewis had been driving.

 

Try to keep up.  ;)



#168 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 18:00

Here's a list of some of the new McLaren employees for 2014.

 

To McLaren:
- Jacob Mercanti, Aerodynamicist, from Caterham to McLaren, Apr. 2013
- Tom Dix, Aerodynamic Performance Engineering, from Rolls-Royce to McLaren, Apr. 2013
- Mark Tatham, Design Team Leader, from Agrippa GmbH to McLaren, Jun. 2013
- Christian Schramm, Team Leader Aerodynamic Technology R&D, from – to Mclaren, Jul. 2013
- Matteo Sansavini, Senior Aerodynamicist (former WT&CFD Aerodynamicist), from Ferrari to McLaren, Oct. 2013



#169 bogi

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 20:03

What happens with current aero staff? Is there a space for all those aero engineers :confused:



#170 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 20:06

What happens with current aero staff? Is there a space for all those aero engineers :confused:

 

 

Same questions were asked about Merc for 2 years.



#171 chumma

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 20:45

Alot of aero guys, maybe we need some mechanical experts too so we can get back to having the best mechanically gripped car like we used to!



#172 Zava

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 20:53

Here's a list of some of the new McLaren employees for 2014.

 

To McLaren:
- Jacob Mercanti, Aerodynamicist, from Caterham to McLaren, Apr. 2013
- Tom Dix, Aerodynamic Performance Engineering, from Rolls-Royce to McLaren, Apr. 2013
- Mark Tatham, Design Team Leader, from Agrippa GmbH to McLaren, Jun. 2013
- Christian Schramm, Team Leader Aerodynamic Technology R&D, from – to Mclaren, Jul. 2013
- Matteo Sansavini, Senior Aerodynamicist (former WT&CFD Aerodynamicist), from Ferrari to McLaren, Oct. 2013

that's bad news I guess.



#173 WitnessX

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 21:03

Here's a list of some of the new McLaren employees for 2014.
 
To McLaren:
- Jacob Mercanti, Aerodynamicist, from Caterham to McLaren, Apr. 2013
- Tom Dix, Aerodynamic Performance Engineering, from Rolls-Royce to McLaren, Apr. 2013
- Mark Tatham, Design Team Leader, from Agrippa GmbH to McLaren, Jun. 2013
- Christian Schramm, Team Leader Aerodynamic Technology R&D, from – to Mclaren, Jul. 2013
- Matteo Sansavini, Senior Aerodynamicist (former WT&CFD Aerodynamicist), from Ferrari to McLaren, Oct. 2013

Looks like an internal promotion - he joined 2010 from BMW-Sauber. <Source>

One problem see is that as the "McLaren Group" has grown, personnel have been shifted from McLaren Racing to Applied Technologies and Automotive.



#174 ATM_Andy

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 21:11

What happens with current aero staff? Is there a space for all those aero engineers :confused:


Staff move around all the time, it's a very insestious industry. It's not unusual for someone to move every couple of years. Right now around 1/2 of Lotus seem to be looking for a new job, and they have some tremendous engineers.
In the last couple of years Mercedes were mopping up all the good talent, but the market it a bit more even now.

#175 midgrid

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 21:51

Wow, I know one of those guys personally.  That was a bit disconcerting.  :drunk:



#176 Tombstone

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 17:04

Staff move around all the time, it's a very insestious industry. It's not unusual for someone to move every couple of ye

 

Shame, just rewatching 'The Mechanics' Story' with "Tex" Rowe, Neil Trundle and Tyler Alexander. I know Tyler has retired but that kind of loyalty counts for a lot in my book. Does he still come and visit the MTC on occasion, he's as much a part of McLaren's DNA as anyone - including Bruce.



#177 bogi

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 17:47

Shame, just rewatching 'The Mechanics' Story' with "Tex" Rowe, Neil Trundle and Tyler Alexander. I know Tyler has retired but that kind of loyalty counts for a lot in my book. Does he still come and visit the MTC on occasion, he's as much a part of McLaren's DNA as anyone - including Bruce.

 

I think I saw him few times during TV coverage, garage shots as guest.



#178 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 18:16

 

Brian Gruncell

 

CFD Engineer McLaren Racing

Public Company; 501-1000 employees; Automotive industry

May 2013 – Present (8 months)

PhD student - Aerodynamics and Flight Mechanics University of Southampton

Educational Institution; 5001-10,000 employees; Higher Education industry

September 2009 – May 2013 (3 years 9 months)

Experimental and numerical research into the potential for using superhydrophobic surfaces to reduce hydrodynamic drag

 

 

 

I studied with him. Nice to see him getting into McLaren. :up: I did a project in the wind tunnel with him. Good engineer, knows his stuff.

 

I didn't stay on for a PhD, too much academia for my taste.



#179 amppatel

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 19:32

That's why I admire so much Mclaren. No other F1 team has so much taste for graduates and young engineers and aerodynamicsts like Mclaren. If you look on linkedin, you won't find as many young engineers in other team like you find at Mclaren. 

That's the base for the future empire :clap:

 

There is a reason for that, they are not very useful in F1. You want experienced staff, there is no point training a graduate and then loosing them to another team...



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#180 mclarensmps

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 19:58

There is a reason for that, they are not very useful in F1. You want experienced staff, there is no point training a graduate and then loosing them to another team...

That's an extremely negative way of looking at things. No industry would survive if everyone looked at employment with that attitude.

 

Any team, in any industry needs a good mix of youth and experience in order to ensure leadership, stability, continuity, innovation and energy.



#181 ElDictatore

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 18:34

That's why I admire so much Mclaren. No other F1 team has so much taste for graduates and young engineers and aerodynamicsts like Mclaren. If you look on linkedin, you won't find as many young engineers in other team like you find at Mclaren. 

That's the base for the future empire :clap:

 

They are by no means the only one. Mercedes is recruiting a lot of graduates from formula student, especially from stuttgart. They have a lot of staff which appear as judges. Sauber and Lotus (and other teams probably too) afaik look there too but not quite as much as Merc. I think we don't really know how much technical staff everyone has and how many from them were already in racing or just graduates.



#182 bogi

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 20:40

It may be true about Mercedes, but Mclaren is recruiting young guns even more. I'm so sick about all this talk about what Mercedes is doing. Mercedes is doing nothing. Costa and Willis were both sacked from their previous teams. And Honda began to poach engineers from them. Their car can't be good enough, despite this talk about the works team. Apart from this year, their design team made only crap cars. And even this year's car would have been a no match for highly refined and developed mp4-27 (Mclaren's 2012 car). Remember that Wolff said that everyone was welcomed in his team considering from where this team come (there were only 370 personnel) in january 2010 when Mercedes took over. Ferrari and Mclaren for years, had large staffs (670 - to over 700 people). We can't compare Prodromou (Newey's right hand) and Dan Fallows (Prodromou's lietenant) whith that two engineers who went from Red Bull to Mercedes. Mercedes incrased their budget this year with 44 millions Euro, and only after they reduced their participatation in DTM). So all this talk about and with Mercedes is ver very overrated. Don't judge Mclaren only for this faillure mp4-28, in all this years, they made the second quickest car (in 2012 even the quickest) after Newey cars, despite their drivers didn't have Alonso's consistancy. I can't imagine Mercedes aero team will make a better car than Mclaren's aero team. I repeat, mp4-28 was only a flop, Mclaren's 2012 car was light years ahead of W04. Even Hamilton, said that mp4-27 had much more downforce than W04. Believe me, we will beat Mercedes, because Mclaren have better engineers, better aerodynamicist, better factory tools, you will see. 

 

 

 

One day into 2014 and we have shitpost of the year. What is the point of disturbing fans of the other teams? What if we get MP4-28B for 2014? You really need to learn how to behave on this type of threads.


Edited by bogi, 01 January 2014 - 23:01.


#183 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 22:52

 Believe me, we will beat Mercedes, because Mclaren have better engineers, better aerodynamicist, better factory tools, you will see. 

 

Believe me, bold predictions like this on this forum have a nasty habit of haunting their owners. Maybe it's best to wait until we've at least seen the new cars, or even better, after they've been tested.



#184 scheivlak

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 22:57

What if we get Mp4-27B?   ;)

Well, either way it will be illegal    ;)



#185 Thomas99

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 07:35

What is the size of McLaren budget and staff numbers wise compared to Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes?

 

I was under the impression McLaren is now the smallest budget wise of the top teams. With as much as 80 million deficit to RBR.



#186 mlsnoopy

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:00

What if we get Mp4-27B?   ;)

 

The one from Canada or the one from Spa?



#187 Lazy

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:06

What is the size of McLaren budget and staff numbers wise compared to Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes?

 

I was under the impression McLaren is now the smallest budget wise of the top teams. With as much as 80 million deficit to RBR.

I think that has changed since the Honda deal. Whitmarsh certainly seems to think so.

 

"Obviously there's a massive excitement in the company [about Honda returning.] They've got a racing culture, a racing spirit - it's tremendously exciting and very motivational in the team," he said. "We can now look ahead really the next ten years knowing we've got fantastic budget, we've fantastic resources, we've got a fantastic partner to go out there and continue winning and being successful in F1. .

 

http://www.crash.net...and-beyond.html



#188 Newbrray

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:42

It may be true about Mercedes, but Mclaren is recruiting young guns even more. I'm so sick about all this talk about what Mercedes is doing. Mercedes is doing nothing. Costa and Willis were both sacked from their previous teams. And Honda began to poach engineers from them. Their car can't be good enough, despite this talk about the works team. Apart from this year, their design team made only crap cars. And even this year's car would have been a no match for highly refined and developed mp4-27 (Mclaren's 2012 car). Remember that Wolff said that everyone was welcomed in his team considering from where this team come (there were only 370 personnel) in january 2010 when Mercedes took over. Ferrari and Mclaren for years, had large staffs (670 - to over 700 people). We can't compare Prodromou (Newey's right hand) and Dan Fallows (Prodromou's lietenant) whith that two engineers who went from Red Bull to Mercedes. Mercedes incrased their budget this year with 44 millions Euro, and only after they reduced their participatation in DTM). So all this talk about and with Mercedes is ver very overrated. Don't judge Mclaren only for this faillure mp4-28, in all this years, they made the second quickest car (in 2012 even the quickest) after Newey cars, despite their drivers didn't have Alonso's consistancy. I can't imagine Mercedes aero team will make a better car than Mclaren's aero team. I repeat, mp4-28 was only a flop, Mclaren's 2012 car was light years ahead of W04. Even Hamilton, said that mp4-27 had much more downforce than W04. Believe me, we will beat Mercedes, because Mclaren have better engineers, better aerodynamicist, better factory tools, you will see. 

 

There was a thread that mentioned how much the teams budget were for 2013 , although not sure how valid the source is.

 

http://forums.autosp...-team-finances/



#189 Jamiednm

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:05

It may be true about Mercedes, but Mclaren is recruiting young guns even more. I'm so sick about all this talk about what Mercedes is doing. Mercedes is doing nothing. Costa and Willis were both sacked from their previous teams. And Honda began to poach engineers from them. Their car can't be good enough, despite this talk about the works team. Apart from this year, their design team made only crap cars. And even this year's car would have been a no match for highly refined and developed mp4-27 (Mclaren's 2012 car). Remember that Wolff said that everyone was welcomed in his team considering from where this team come (there were only 370 personnel) in january 2010 when Mercedes took over. Ferrari and Mclaren for years, had large staffs (670 - to over 700 people). We can't compare Prodromou (Newey's right hand) and Dan Fallows (Prodromou's lietenant) whith that two engineers who went from Red Bull to Mercedes. Mercedes incrased their budget this year with 44 millions Euro, and only after they reduced their participatation in DTM). So all this talk about and with Mercedes is ver very overrated. Don't judge Mclaren only for this faillure mp4-28, in all this years, they made the second quickest car (in 2012 even the quickest) after Newey cars, despite their drivers didn't have Alonso's consistancy. I can't imagine Mercedes aero team will make a better car than Mclaren's aero team. I repeat, mp4-28 was only a flop, Mclaren's 2012 car was light years ahead of W04. Even Hamilton, said that mp4-27 had much more downforce than W04. Believe me, we will beat Mercedes, because Mclaren have better engineers, better aerodynamicist, better factory tools, you will see. 

 

 

What a terrible, subjective post.

 

'Mercedes doing nothing' - moving from nowhere in the WCC to 2nd in 2013, 3 race wins and numerous poles. That is a massive improvement on their performance since they returned as a team in 2010.

 

'(W04) would have been mo match for highly refined and developed mp4-27' - there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support this. That view is very simplistic, F1 isn't that easy.

 

You also make no mention of McLarens race operations, which has been probably their biggest flaw for a long time now.



#190 fluffy38

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 15:43

I'm going to dissapoint you Mircea but if rumours are true, ferrari have come up with the best powertrain solution, just need to see if it is reliable ...



#191 Jamiednm

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 15:53

The mp4-28 doesn't reflect Mclaren's strenght. It was a failled experiment with pull rod, heigh nose and all that stuff. The anterior cars, were fast enough. Mercedes provided all the information to Mercedes Petronas in all this years, they should have at leat parity with Mclaren. But the difference was made by the chassis teams, and it was a big difference. If they wouldn't have done that Pirelli test with Hamilton and Rosberg they would not have been able to resolve their tyre problems. Mp4-27 is light years ahead whith all the W02, 03, 04 all together. I won't speak anymore, I let you think about how a wondefull Mercedes car will be. 

 

Put a sock in it will you, your posts are embarrassing to read. You are also forgetting that Mercedes (as its previous guise as Brawn GP - still the same team) are the only team to have won a Championship since 2009 other than Red Bull.



#192 Sennasational

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 15:54

The mp4-28 doesn't reflect Mclaren's strenght. It was a failled experiment with pull rod, heigh nose and all that stuff. The anterior cars, were fast enough. Mercedes provided all the information to Mercedes Petronas in all this years, they should have at leat parity with Mclaren. But the difference was made by the chassis teams, and it was a big difference. If they wouldn't have done that Pirelli test with Hamilton and Rosberg they would not have been able to resolve their tyre problems. Mp4-27 is light years ahead whith all the W02, 03, 04 all together. I won't speak anymore, I let you think about how a wondefull Mercedes car will be. 

I know you think you're putting accross an argument, but you're only making yourself and McLaren fans in general look dimwitted and annoying. All teams have produced bad cars, or cars that have not met expectations at some point in their lifetime - no one is looking for you to defend McLaren to the point of bashing their competitors. The Mp4-27 was a good car, and McLaren should have won thechampionship with it, and almost certainly would have if it was not for their complete incompetence elsewhere. As a fan you have to accept your team's flaws, to save yourself becoming a fanboy.

 

The Mp4-28 was horrible. But my worry for McLaren is that when they couldn't win the championship when they have their 'godly' car as you are describing it becomes clear that the car is not their only problem. I hope McLaren pull out a good car and perform well this season, but there is valid reason to be concerned that they won't. You need to accept that as soon as possible, else you will wind up looking rather foolish and you'll be even more disappointed if they don't perform as you hope they will. Personally, I think Mercedes are in a much stronger position but I'll be happy to be proven wrong, such are the exciting surprises of motorsport.

 

Keep your expectations in check, and be aware that we are all working with rumours and speculation. Don't mistake your opinion for fact. Apologies for the lecture, I don't post often but you're kind of ruining this thread for me.



#193 bogi

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 15:55

Mods, please :cry:



#194 SophieB

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 15:56

Please, this is a thread for discussing the technological developments for this year's car. If there's not much to say about the car (because we haven't seen it yet), please wait until there is some news. It certainly isn't for discussing the perceived deficiencies of other teams or discussing the drivers, please keep to the topic.

#195 Timstr11

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 10:47

New website

Vodafone removed.

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1


Edited by Timstr11, 05 January 2014 - 10:48.


#196 as65p

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:57

Clicked on the MP4/4 video and was shocked that RD didn't have those stains on the nose of the car removed. He must be getting soft with old age.  ;)



#197 bogi

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 12:45

New website

Vodafone removed.

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1

 

 

Perez is also removed.



#198 ZionLH

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 13:20

Perez is also removed.

 

Well he doesn't drive for them this year does he . 



#199 Cyanide

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 13:30

So what are the chances of the new McLaren being orange colored? 

 

mclaren_orange_2014.jpg



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#200 bogi

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 13:32

Well he doesn't drive for them this year does he . 

 

Last year they kept Lewis till car launch.