Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Anthony Hamilton v Di Resta Pt2


  • Please log in to reply
133 replies to this topic

#1 pinkypants

pinkypants
  • Member

  • 1,498 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 04 December 2013 - 19:59

Original thread:

 

http://forums.autosp...ton-v-di-resta/

 

Updates since then:

 

http://www.telegraph...y-Hamilton.html

 

Court case has now started:

 

 http://www.telegraph...l-di-Resta.html

 

Not sure how much we can discuss the actual case itself given that this is a current legal case? Maybe we can discuss implications on Paul's career given that he doesn't have a drive for next year, would things have been different if Hamilton had stayed as his manager?



Advertisement

#2 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 04 December 2013 - 20:41

I have two questions.

 

Altering the date/time on a Blackberry wouldn't affect the emails would it? Isn't that set by the email server? And the time would show up us local on the receiving end no? If I get an email at 6am from a country 4 hours ahead of me, the stamp is 6am not 10am.

 

The Times version was reporting it was a 5mil sponsorship. That seems like a lot of money for an energy drink, especially a smaller one. Though maybe it was a 5 year deal.



#3 GodHimself

GodHimself
  • Member

  • 206 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 04 December 2013 - 21:22

 

Altering the date/time on a Blackberry wouldn't affect the emails would it? Isn't that set by the email server? And the time would show up us local on the receiving end no? If I get an email at 6am from a country 4 hours ahead of me, the stamp is 6am not 10am.

 

 

Pretty sure it wouldn't. Sounds like bullshit to me.

 

Hamilton should take these to the court:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2821

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1939

 

That would make for an exciting read.  :p



#4 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 7,307 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 04 December 2013 - 22:37

Original thread:

 

http://forums.autosp...ton-v-di-resta/

 

Updates since then:

 

http://www.telegraph...y-Hamilton.html

 

Court case has now started:

 

 http://www.telegraph...l-di-Resta.html

 

Not sure how much we can discuss the actual case itself given that this is a current legal case? Maybe we can discuss implications on Paul's career given that he doesn't have a drive for next year, would things have been different if Hamilton had stayed as his manager?

 

Not sure if this applies to a case before a judge alone without a jury...


Edited by jjcale, 04 December 2013 - 22:38.


#5 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 04 December 2013 - 22:37

If the newspapers are reporting details we can certainly discuss them on a forum.



#6 redreni

redreni
  • Member

  • 3,020 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 05 December 2013 - 09:53

I have two questions.
 
Altering the date/time on a Blackberry wouldn't affect the emails would it? Isn't that set by the email server? And the time would show up us local on the receiving end no? If I get an email at 6am from a country 4 hours ahead of me, the stamp is 6am not 10am.
 
The Times version was reporting it was a 5mil sponsorship. That seems like a lot of money for an energy drink, especially a smaller one. Though maybe it was a 5 year deal.


But if the sender looks in his sent items presumably he will see the timestamp on the email as 10am. So presumably the time that‘s displayed depends not only on what time it was according to the mail server when the message was sent, but also on whatever adjustment needs to be made to account for any difference between the mail server‘s time and the system time of the device.

Isn‘t Di Resta‘s case that Hamilton told him that Force India would want a cut of €x from the proposed Go Fast sponsorship deal when in actual fact, when he checked with the team, they wanted €y, where €x is significantly more than €y? So it would be helpful for Hamilton if there was an email from Hamilton to Di Resta telling the truth about the above, with a timestamp that places it before Di Resta checked with
the team.

I‘m not saying this happened, but if he could get his device to display a false time by altering the system clock, then take a photograph of his blackberry screen or print the email off from his laptop, then suffer the misfortune of "losing" all of the devices in question so nobody could look into it any further, then that would go some way to explaining why we‘d have this dispute. There could be plenty of other explanations too, of course.

#7 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,689 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:25

"Never did Downes wear his expression of exasperation more evidently than when Hamilton, an IT expert, first denied then admitted he knew how to fix dates on emails."

 

http://www.dailymail...High-Court.html

 

 

Disputes over the timing/validity of Blackberry mails, it all sounds a bit Mansoor Ijaz to me.



#8 DarthWillie

DarthWillie
  • Member

  • 1,750 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:06

Losing the box with the telephones and PC with evidence made me chuckle

#9 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,827 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:42

Pretty sure it wouldn't. Sounds like bullshit to me.

 

Hamilton should take these to the court:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2821

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1939

 

That would make for an exciting read.  :p

I guess that it could be downloaded to a phone at a different time to the server. Ie the email may show up on the server at 10am but not downloaded to a mobile or other device until 12.30 or some other time later. But I don't see how you could alter the time a message was sent and certainly not receive it before it was sent as that would be time travel.


Edited by bonjon1979a, 05 December 2013 - 11:42.


#10 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,583 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:48

 

 

Not sure how much we can discuss the actual case itself given that this is a current legal case? Maybe we can discuss implications on Paul's career given that he doesn't have a drive for next year, would things have been different if Hamilton had stayed as his manager?

 

As a general guidance for the thread, wait for any verdict before weighing in with views/opinions about whether people are guilty/lying.



#11 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:35

But if the sender looks in his sent items presumably he will see the timestamp on the email as 10am. So presumably the time that‘s displayed depends not only on what time it was according to the mail server when the message was sent, but also on whatever adjustment needs to be made to account for any difference between the mail server‘s time and the system time of the device.

Isn‘t Di Resta‘s case that Hamilton told him that Force India would want a cut of €x from the proposed Go Fast sponsorship deal when in actual fact, when he checked with the team, they wanted €y, where €x is significantly more than €y? So it would be helpful for Hamilton if there was an email from Hamilton to Di Resta telling the truth about the above, with a timestamp that places it before Di Resta checked with
the team.

I‘m not saying this happened, but if he could get his device to display a false time by altering the system clock, then take a photograph of his blackberry screen or print the email off from his laptop, then suffer the misfortune of "losing" all of the devices in question so nobody could look into it any further, then that would go some way to explaining why we‘d have this dispute. There could be plenty of other explanations too, of course.

 

But the key is the email went somewhere. So wouldn't the receiving end have the correct time? And if you dig really deeply, somewhere a server has the time the email entered the internet.



#12 boldhakka

boldhakka
  • Member

  • 2,802 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:48

But the key is the email went somewhere. So wouldn't the receiving end have the correct time? And if you dig really deeply, somewhere a server has the time the email entered the internet.

 

That's correct, and you don't have to dig very deep. 

 

Every email received will come with a "header" that is viewable by the recipient (in any half-decent email client, including web clients). The header contains several sets of dates. One is when the email was composed and sent ("Date"), and reflects the date and time of the local user who composed it. The other reflects the date when the recipient's email client first received it ("Delivery-Date") - this would correspond to when the phone would make a "new email" alert noise, for example. 

 

Within this header you will also see a list of servers that "received" the email and passed it along. There is a time-stamp (date and time) associated with each server that indicates when that particular server received it. 

 

So yeah, it's not trivial to spoof or manipulate these dates unless you control the servers involved (only possible if the email was sent within the same domain/intranet). 


Edited by boldhakka, 05 December 2013 - 12:48.


#13 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:51

Certainly doesn't seem like the kind of thing you could fiddle via the factory settings on a smart phone...



#14 boldhakka

boldhakka
  • Member

  • 2,802 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:56

Indeed. The only situation when it's trivial to play with the dates in an email is when you reply or forward a message to someone and simply edit the date in the quoted part of the text. The email header will only contain dates from the latest transit and not from any previous chain of forwards or replies. So if Force India sent Hamilton an email, which he then forwarded on to PDR, then it would be easy for Hamilton to have edited the date in the forwarded part of the email, and claim that's when he got the email. The only way you could tell that he tampered with it is by getting access to Hamilton's email data and check the header of the original email from FI (EDIT: or, via a subpoena to the email provider). 


Edited by boldhakka, 05 December 2013 - 13:01.


#15 MustangSally

MustangSally
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 05 December 2013 - 14:36

No idea about the rights and wrongs of the case.

 

But it is odd for Hamilton to take such a case to court, wouldn't you think?

 

Such cases can be quite damaging with the attendant publicity - barristers love a bit of character assassination these days.  Expensive game too.

 

Since they are both unemployed, it is all looking rather lose lose.



#16 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,689 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 05 December 2013 - 20:53

Tweet from Kevin Eason:

 

 

Extraordinary details of the management split between Anthony and Lewis+the missing $3m. The Times tomorrow
 
 
 
 
From the Telegraph:
 
 

"The proposed deal, which would have netted Di Resta millions in sponsorship, involved Belir Associates buying Force India’s energy drinks rights and selling them on at a huge profit to Go Fast.

Although Hamilton was not listed as a director, Downes suggested that he effectively controlled Belir since his father Davidson, who lives in Grenada and is now in his 80s, was by then already suffering from an unspecified affliction and was no longer in control of his actions. “You were the guiding mind and spirit of Belir,” Downes said."

 

 

http://www.telegraph...er-Anthony.html

 
 
 


#17 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,803 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 05 December 2013 - 22:08

Fascinating.

 

So... the idea brought forward by PDR's lawyer is that A. Hamilton planned to invest money to be gifted by his son L. Hamilton into a company officially lead by his father D. Hamilton (but inofficially controlled by A. Hamilton himself) to buy / trade some energy drink rights not only promising huge profit for himself but also a load of sponsorship money for Paul di Resta, but then it all went bust when L. Hamilton withdrew his money gift offer?

 

Family affairs, eh? :p



#18 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 05 December 2013 - 22:30

Who knew Paul di Resta's drinks rights were so valuable. 



#19 pinkypants

pinkypants
  • Member

  • 1,498 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 06 December 2013 - 17:14

http://www.dailymail...ourt-hears.html



Advertisement

#20 MustangSally

MustangSally
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 06 December 2013 - 17:54

 

Shall we just say that A. Hamilton is getting a very bad press.

 

Surely all this is far more damaging than being fired by an ex-F1 midfield driver, currently unemployed.



#21 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,695 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 06 December 2013 - 19:19

Shall we just say that A. Hamilton is getting a very bad press.

 

Surely all this is far more damaging than being fired by an ex-F1 midfield driver, currently unemployed.

Can't see many drivers rushing to seek his services after this.



#22 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,716 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 06 December 2013 - 19:47

Can't see many drivers rushing to seek his services after this.

 

I think he manages de Vries, but that's on behalf of McLaren.  Some of the claims made in the case so far aren't exactly a glowing endorsement, that's for sure.


Edited by P123, 06 December 2013 - 19:49.


#23 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,689 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 06 December 2013 - 20:02

"Cross-examined by Mr Paul Downes QC, Hamilton denied seeking ‘a secret profit’, explaining: ‘I was lying to make sure the process was on-going."

 

 

 

"Told that forensic tests showed his emails had been doctored, Hamilton denied this was true."

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail...orce-India.html

 

 

 

Wonder if he's regretting bringing this case to court ?. 


 



#24 OO7

OO7
  • Member

  • 9,382 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 06 December 2013 - 22:41

I read nothing new there.  All of this was speculated on in this forum yesterday, so we shouldn't be surprised by Downes' cross-examination.

 

But yes it is not doing Hamilton Sr any favours.



#25 Amphicar

Amphicar
  • Member

  • 2,028 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 06 December 2013 - 22:57

Anthony Hamilton (re the Force India sponsorship deal): "‘I would be dishonest if I said I never lied."

 

So presumably he doesn't think that lying is dishonest?

 



#26 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,803 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 07 December 2013 - 00:57

"Anthony Hamilton told the High Court that if dates on emails that are crucial to his case against Paul di Resta have been altered – it’s because his builders did it.

Hamilton said a new security system had been installed at his house in Tewin, Hertfordshire, and that the builders had ‘regularly changed the times and dates on my iPad’ so he could view the CCTV cameras remotely."

 
:lol:  You couldn't make it up if you tried. Oh wait... :drunk:


#27 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:29

Anthony Hamilton (re the Force India sponsorship deal): "‘I would be dishonest if I said I never lied."

 

So presumably he doesn't think that lying is dishonest?

 

I took that to mean he's not claiming he's never lied. And he talked about tactical lying, for example telling Vijay Mallya Paul has other offers or whatever.



#28 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,939 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 07 December 2013 - 19:50

 

Wonder if he's regretting bringing this case to court ?. 

 

 

After he's read about the case in the papers he can impossibly be proud of what this case is doing to his family name.

 

You know that you have succumbed to the dark side of F1 when you care more about sticking an ore in another man, than protect your integrity and private dealings with your son. 

 

Lewis must be cringing in shame.



#29 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 07 December 2013 - 20:02

He doesn't have any professional dealings with his son and other than being his dad, didn't previously.

 

The headlines are lurid but when you read the details(minus the QC questioning) it's pretty tame and expected. This isn't the dark side of F1, this is just sports management.

 

The big surprise to me is di Resta had a multi-million dollar drinks deal. I thought it fell apart and that's what they were arguing about. Must have been some deal if none of us even noticed  :p



#30 garoidb

garoidb
  • Member

  • 4,083 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 07 December 2013 - 20:23

He doesn't have any professional dealings with his son and other than being his dad, didn't previously.

 

The headlines are lurid but when you read the details(minus the QC questioning) it's pretty tame and expected. This isn't the dark side of F1, this is just sports management.

 

The big surprise to me is di Resta had a multi-million dollar drinks deal. I thought it fell apart and that's what they were arguing about. Must have been some deal if none of us even noticed  :p

 

Yeah, and it is not a particularly high profile story. It wouldn't be a story at all if Anthony wasn't the father of Lewis (who is unconnected to the actual story). 



#31 F1ultimate

F1ultimate
  • Member

  • 2,939 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 07 December 2013 - 21:24

He doesn't have any professional dealings with his son and other than being his dad, didn't previously.

 

How common is it to thank parents for getting you behind the wheel of a car by promising them a massive pay check? 



#32 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 07 December 2013 - 21:32

I'd like to think given Hamilton Jr's income, and Hamilton Sr's efforts to get him through karting and etc; Dad would be taken care of.

 

Wouldn't most of us if given the money? If I made it big, even without my parents involvement, I'd help them pay off their house, my sister's final year of college, etc. 



#33 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,486 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 07 December 2013 - 22:55

He doesn't have any professional dealings with his son and other than being his dad, didn't previously.

 

The headlines are lurid but when you read the details(minus the QC questioning) it's pretty tame and expected. This isn't the dark side of F1, this is just sports management.

 

The big surprise to me is di Resta had a multi-million dollar drinks deal. I thought it fell apart and that's what they were arguing about. Must have been some deal if none of us even noticed  :p

 

Maybe he mentioned it in the middle of an interview. Let's face it, none of us were listening.  :p 



#34 CHIUNDA

CHIUNDA
  • Member

  • 1,006 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:44

These Hamiltons and their serially poor image management skills ... surely this could have been settled out of court.

#35 george1981

george1981
  • Member

  • 848 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 08 December 2013 - 07:50

With the blackberry/email messages together with their date and time sent. Surely that must be recorded at the server. Is the server record available?

Are there discrepancies between the server and Hamilton's evidence of his emails?



#36 Nemo1965

Nemo1965
  • Member

  • 2,446 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:05

Remarkable that most posters seemed to find this whole courtcase most damaging for Anthony Hamilton. If I were a driver or representing a driver I would be carefull but not afraid to do business with A.Hamilton. But if I were a manager of sorts I would not touch Paul di Resta with a barge pole.

 

And also: how can anyone believe - esp. Di Resta himself - that his persona could sell one bottle of sports drink anywhere?



#37 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,803 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:39

But if I were a manager of sorts I would not touch Paul di Resta with a barge pole.

 

 

What, related to this case, makes you say that?



#38 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,689 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:20

These Hamiltons and their serially poor image management skills ... surely this could have been settled out of court.

 

Or this particular Hamilton with his, lets say seemingly "poor" management "skills", without which there may not even have been a dispute to settle, difficult to say until a verdict is reached and given.

 

 

With the blackberry/email messages together with their date and time sent. Surely that must be recorded at the server. Is the server record available?

Are there discrepancies between the server and Hamilton's evidence of his emails?

 

DiResta's QC certainly seems to think there are discrepancies somewhere.

 

"Told that forensic tests showed his emails had been doctored, Hamilton denied this was true."

 

 

Remarkable that most posters seemed to find this whole courtcase most damaging for Anthony Hamilton. If I were a driver or representing a driver I would be carefull but not afraid to do business with A.Hamilton. But if I were a manager of sorts I would not touch Paul di Resta with a barge pole.

 

And also: how can anyone believe - esp. Di Resta himself - that his persona could sell one bottle of sports drink anywhere?

 

Yeah, almost as remarkable as people claiming DiResta was just looking for an out and in doing so was besmirching AH, with "lost" evidence, apparently doctored evidence, and builders playing with his ipad AH is doing a pretty fine job of besmirching himself imo.

 

All that remains is for someone to blame poor Dave Ryan  :lol:


Edited by swerved, 08 December 2013 - 10:20.


#39 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,689 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:26

I'd like to think given Hamilton Jr's income, and Hamilton Sr's efforts to get him through karting and etc; Dad would be taken care of.

 

Wouldn't most of us if given the money? If I made it big, even without my parents involvement, I'd help them pay off their house, my sister's final year of college, etc. 

 

I find it extremely difficult to believe that Lewis wouldn't have paid his father for guiding him, asked or otherwise, he doesn't seem that uncaring, I also find it difficult to believe that AH "made his money" before Lewis made it big.



Advertisement

#40 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,932 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:06

That'd be easy to check if we know the name of Dad's IT company.



#41 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,803 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:48

That'd be easy to check if we know the name of Dad's IT company.

 

Unless the company name was in that box of phones and ipads which was lost / stolen by the builders.



#42 David Lightman

David Lightman
  • Member

  • 412 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:48

It's certainly a long way from the way that Jenson and John Button seem to get on!

#43 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,689 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:52

That'd be easy to check if we know the name of Dad's IT company.

 

 

Take your pick, 107% was the X-factor style search for an F1 star that was apparently going to guarantee a full F1 race seat for a season, Marisco was the F1 drink that never took off, GPPrep was to be the drivers academy iirc, D_H Assets, Terra Green and Corporatec were founded after Lewis made it big, so that would seem to leave Hedgeconnect, Reflex and Simply Consultants.

 

 

 

 

Company Name                                                   Company Status                  Position Appointed Resigned Dissolved

TERRA GREEN LIMITED                                     Company is dissolved          Director 05/04/2011 - 10/2013 
107% LIMITED                                                     Non trading                          Director 18/10/2011 
MARISCO INNOVATIONS LIMITED                      Company is dissolved          Director 01/03/2008 - 07/2009 
HAMILTON MANAGEMENT GROUP LIMITED      Active - Accounts Filed        Director 01/06/2004 
HEDGECONNECT UK LIMITED                           Non trading                          Director 22/07/2002 23/06/2008 
LEWIS HAMILTON MOTORSPORT LIMITED      Company is dissolved           Director 12/01/2001 - 10/2013
D & H ASSETS LIMITED                                     Company is dissolved           Director 16/01/2009 - 09/2010      
CORPORATEC LIMITED                                    Company is dissolved           Director 06/06/2000 - 09/2009
SIMPLY CONSULTANTS LIMITED                      Company is dissolved           Director 15/10/1997 - 04/2011
REFLEX BUSINESS SOLUTIONS LIMITED         Company is dissolved           Director 06/01/1995 - 04/2011
GP PREP LIMITED                                             Non trading                           Director 23/06/2008
CORPORATEC (LONDON) LIMITED                 Active - Accounts Filed          Director 23/03/2007 -31/03/2009 
VIZOR INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT LLP         Company is dissolved LLP    Designated Member 19/06/2002 19/06/2002 09/2010



#44 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 20,704 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 08 December 2013 - 13:14

This thread has nothing to do with Lewis, (or Jenson) please keep to the topic. 



#45 MustangSally

MustangSally
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 08 December 2013 - 13:29

 

 

HEDGECONNECT UK LIMITED                           Non trading                          Director 22/07/2002 23/06/2008 
 

 

 

What a very apt name for an Anthony Hamilton company. 

 

 

 


Anthony Hamilton was just 200 metres from his home in Tewin, Hertfordshire, when he lost control of the £330,000 vehicle and ploughed across a grass verge, leaving deep tyre tracks, before crashing through a hedge.

 

 

 



#46 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,689 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 08 December 2013 - 13:34

 

What a very apt name for an Anthony Hamilton company. 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

:rotfl:



#47 chipmcdonald

chipmcdonald
  • Member

  • 914 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 08 December 2013 - 14:36

It's easy to besmirch A. Hamilton based on court-lawyer verbiage, but the reality is that what a manager does - and a salesman - is bluffing.  Technically lying.  The problem here it seems is that Diresta's expectation of a *possible* business deal is the same as a *done* deal. 

 

I don't like salesmen in general, but if someone is selling your house and they tell someone "the lowest price my client can go is X amount" - even though the salesman has agreed with his client that they can go lower, technically that is a "lie".  If the salesman's bluff fails, that's business in the Gnarly World of Capitalism. 

 

"Negotiation" is really just controlled lying, otherwise both sides would just announce how much they have and their bottom line.   "The team didn't call me in at the right time" - well, that's speculation.



#48 ExFlagMan

ExFlagMan
  • Member

  • 1,931 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 08 December 2013 - 14:56

That'd be easy to check if we know the name of Dad's IT company.

Atlantic Computer Leasing maybe!

#49 bogi

bogi
  • Member

  • 3,164 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 08 December 2013 - 16:03

Losing the box with the telephones and PC with evidence made me chuckle

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg



#50 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,695 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 08 December 2013 - 20:32

It's certainly a long way from the way that Jenson and John Button seem to get on!

They went through some bad times as well.