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Lotus E22 (2014 challenger)


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#51 santababy

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 14:27

I think they wrote this article based on reading this thread.


Maybe. We will know better by 28 Jan.

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#52 Shiroo

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 15:00

I don't know if Bernie cares at all, or would back them financially or not, nor if this is true at all. But if the Enstone team - in whatever guise - is not on the grid next year, it would be a huge prestige and sporting loss to F1.

 

This. It isn't about Lotus name or however they are called. They were Toleman, Benetton, Renault, now Lotus. It is about Enstone legacy in F1, they were really long in F1, achieved some great results, and now might go dust cause no one wanna give them a helping hand.

I still believe that Bernie would prefer to see Marussia bail out rather than one of top 4 teams.



#53 Kristian

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 15:16

I doubt Bernie would help them out; it would set a precedent, and he wouldn't want all the teams queuing up for some bailout cash. 



#54 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 16:36

Didn't Bernie help another team out financially a few years ago? Or is my mind playing tricks on me now. :drunk:



#55 Vesuvius

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 16:40

Bernie helped Lotus last year by paying them tv-money earlier ....don't think he will help them this time as I think tv-money has already paid and Bernie isnt that big fan of Lotus management.

#56 Radion

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 16:58

Well, it seems so that genii gambled, and lost...



#57 Module

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 17:00

I don't think that Renault or Bernie would save Lotus. Lotus issues aren't because of unfair distribution of money but because of how Genii has handled the team. They bought it for 1 € from Renault, haven't invested themselves but only given loans and have taken use of sponsors for Geniis benefit disregarding the team. Why would Renault or Bernie want to give money to Lotus when they spend money they don't have and the money they get goes to paying loans and interest to Genii who got the team for free?



#58 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 17:37

Too much is made of the Bernie remark. It's not his job, and he won't finance anything, IMHO. If Lotus is in deep, it will be sold. It's a team in reasonably good shape infrastructure-wise. I doubt they will go down the sink.



#59 AlexanderF1

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 17:38

i think if this news is true then i think this is the result of singapore 2008 which led to ing ditching renault in late 09 and now they are supposedly in massive debt and not paying wages etc. it does seem pretty ominous that we have not heard anything from lotus with a month until pre season tests. but there are 2 positives if they fold:

no more maldonado

chilton gets to finnish 20th not 22nd!



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#60 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 17:39

i think if this news is true then i think this is the result of singapore 2008 which led to ing ditching renault in late 09 and now they are supposedly in massive debt and not paying wages etc. it does seem pretty ominous that we have not heard anything from lotus with a month until pre season tests. but there are 2 positives if they fold:

no more maldonado

chilton gets to finnish 20th not 22nd!

 

haters gonna hate :cool:



#61 Lone

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 18:23

This. It isn't about Lotus name or however they are called. They were Toleman, Benetton, Renault, now Lotus. It is about Enstone legacy in F1, they were really long in F1, achieved some great results, and now might go dust cause no one wanna give them a helping hand.

I still believe that Bernie would prefer to see Marussia bail out rather than one of top 4 teams.

I agree, but what has that to do with Lotus since they are not a top 4 team? Top 4: Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes.



#62 Anderis

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 18:30

Lotus has finished in top4 in WCC 2 years in row, so they're top4 team at the moment.



#63 Cyanide

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 18:32

They have huge and amazing potential to be regular front runners if they had the funding. Would be a shame to have such a team exit the sport and it would certainly plague Formula 1's reputation. 



#64 Lone

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 18:44

Lotus has finished in top4 in WCC 2 years in row, so they're top4 team at the moment.

So McLaren isn't a top 4 team then? I thought we were talking about history, financial strenght and prestige not to mention the importance the team has to F1. The top 4 that I mentioned surely has a better deal for their presence in F1 than Lotus for all of the above mentioned reasons, and not the result of some odd season.

 

I'm sure if there was a team that would be in the top 4 instead of the teams I mentioned it would be Williams and not Lotus.


Edited by Lone, 29 December 2013 - 18:49.


#65 Maikel0230

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 19:01

Agree with you on that but at the moment Williams is clearly not a top 4 team, that honour goest to Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren IMHO.



#66 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 19:50

Ross Brawn doesn't have a job at the moment.  He should buy Enstone for a pound, strap Merc engines in, and win a second title for Brawn GP.   :rotfl:



#67 emmanuelrubi

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 23:35

The Finnish media is reporting that Lotus wont even make it to the grid in 2014 damn hope it is not true i love Lotus colors and i like Ro Gro.

 

http://www.iltasanom...8625216629.html



#68 peterr

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 23:59

The Finnish media is reporting that Lotus wont even make it to the grid in 2014 damn hope it is not true i love Lotus colors and i like Ro Gro.

 

http://www.iltasanom...8625216629.html

 

This article was published on 26/11/2013, there is nothing new in there.



#69 emmanuelrubi

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 00:07

Damn i need to pay more attention on that on the bright side we might still se some Ro Gro action in 2014.



#70 charly0418

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 00:57

Lotus has finished in top4 in WCC 2 years in row, so they're top4 team at the moment.

 

Your logic to put Lotus as a top team contradicts the logic of not putting McLaren as one. LOL



#71 boldhakka

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:05

They haven't posted any new jobs on RaceStaff either. They aren't even trying to fill the vacancies that have come up with the engineers that have already left. 



#72 Kristian

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:13

Ross Brawn doesn't have a job at the moment.  He should buy Enstone for a pound, strap Merc engines in, and win a second title for Brawn GP.   :rotfl:

 

Then sell to Renault next season for £100m. Perfect! 



#73 RedOne

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:29

They haven't posted any new jobs on RaceStaff either. They aren't even trying to fill the vacancies that have come up with the engineers that have already left.


I don't think hiring new engineers is at the top of there priorities..

#74 MustangSally

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:31

A curious note in 'Omnicorse'.

 

http://www.omnicorse...re-la-de-tomaso

 

It suggests that Genii wants to buy De Tomaso out of bankruptcy, relaunch the brand and put two cars in Formula E.



#75 Module

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 16:25

They haven't posted any new jobs on RaceStaff either. They aren't even trying to fill the vacancies that have come up with the engineers that have already left. 

 

That's realy worrying, a sign that the trust in busines as usual has faded? I realy hope that I'm overly pessimistic and we will se Lotus testing in a month.



#76 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 16:41

That's realy worrying, a sign that the trust in busines as usual has faded? I realy hope that I'm overly pessimistic and we will se Lotus testing in a month.

 

No. That's not worrying.

 

THIS is worrying:

 

from the 2014 Mc thread

 

Staff move around all the time, it's a very insestious industry. It's not unusual for someone to move every couple of years. Right now around 1/2 of Lotus seem to be looking for a new job, and they have some tremendous engineers.
In the last couple of years Mercedes were mopping up all the good talent, but the market it a bit more even now.


Edited by Szoelloe, 30 December 2013 - 16:42.


#77 MustangSally

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 17:25

That's really worrying, a sign that the trust in business as usual has faded? I realy hope that I'm overly pessimistic and we will see Lotus testing in a month.

 

Maybe they are simply encouraging some natural wastage?

 

Lotus could slim down to the size of a Force India, for example, with 200 - 300 fewer personnel and less in-house engineering. That could be an alternative strategy.

 

When Honda became Brawn, I think 270 people were let go at once. 



#78 Module

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 17:40

Maybe they are simply encouraging some natural wastage?

 

Lotus could slim down to the size of a Force India, for example, with 200 - 300 fewer personnel and less in-house engineering. That could be an alternative strategy.

 

When Honda became Brawn, I think 270 people were let go at once. 

Yes and no. While Lotus obviously had a organisation too big for their funding a natural wastage means uncontrollable reduction in staff. As Szoelloe pointed out there are rumours that 1/2 of Lotus personel are looking for work elsewere. For example maybe engine and aeroengineers have a easier time finding new jobs than some others and this leads to having an unhealthy distribution of staff, so even if the main objective was to drasticly lower amount of engineers there should be atleast some reqruiting.



#79 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 17:45

Maybe they are simply encouraging some natural wastage?

 

Lotus could slim down to the size of a Force India, for example, with 200 - 300 fewer personnel and less in-house engineering. That could be an alternative strategy.

 

When Honda became Brawn, I think 270 people were let go at once. 

 

Because of the RRA, basically(apart from the financial necessities of course). From well over 700 people. They slimmed down one year early, and it came to be that Ferrari and Red Bull spat on the agreement, and did not downsize at all. There is no RRA now, an exodus of high-profile engineers is really not a good sign, and they were not that many staffwise to start with.



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#80 emmanuelrubi

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:15

Maybe they are simply encouraging some natural wastage?

 

Lotus could slim down to the size of a Force India, for example, with 200 - 300 fewer personnel and less in-house engineering. That could be an alternative strategy.

 

When Honda became Brawn, I think 270 people were let go at once. 

 

Even reducing personal could be the new strategy, i doubt they will be the new brawn, they have lost James Allison and even i think he is pretty good i don't see Grosjean fighting the wdc in 2014



#81 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 03:58

They should merge with Caterham and streamline/reprofile. Caterham have yet to score, Lotus are protential WCC fighters. One can guarantee their future the other cannot. It makes sense from a managememt point of view.

#82 Anderis

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 10:46

So McLaren isn't a top 4 team then? I thought we were talking about history, financial strenght and prestige not to mention the importance the team has to F1. The top 4 that I mentioned surely has a better deal for their presence in F1 than Lotus for all of the above mentioned reasons, and not the result of some odd season.

 

I'm sure if there was a team that would be in the top 4 instead of the teams I mentioned it would be Williams and not Lotus.

It really depends on what is your definition of top team.

 

It's not unreasonable to think top4 teams are the 4 teams that achieved the best results last season, unless it's stated otherwise and said which other criteria should be used, which had not been the case before I made my reply.

 

Top is top. Top of the WCC classification for example is one of the first things what springs to people's minds.

 

Of course I'm not claiming that McLaren shouldn't be considered as a top team, but it's hard to deny Lotus has been a top team results-wise in the past 2 years.
 


Edited by Anderis, 31 December 2013 - 10:47.


#83 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 11:41

They should merge with Caterham and streamline/reprofile. Caterham have yet to score, Lotus are protential WCC fighters. One can guarantee their future the other cannot. It makes sense from a managememt point of view.

What can they gain from this? Caterham themselves is a team that's financially struggling.



#84 UPRC

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 11:51

Everything that I'm reading is really worrying. This is a really historic championship winning team, and it pains me to know that such a talented outfit is in such dire trouble simply because the newest owners have been buffoons.


Edited by UPRC, 31 December 2013 - 11:51.


#85 Module

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 11:52

They should merge with Caterham and streamline/reprofile. Caterham have yet to score, Lotus are protential WCC fighters. One can guarantee their future the other cannot. It makes sense from a managememt point of view.

 

Why would Caterham want to merge? Lotus has a poisonpill in a debt of 150 Mil, atleas...



#86 fluffy38

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 13:45

To go back to the posts at the start of this thread, just because the silly paperwork isnt signed and hasnt appeared all over the f1 press doesnt mean Lotus wont have renault engines next year (unless the team disappears)

Renault were at Enstone mocking up ERS cables etc just before Xmas. And its way to late to change supplier now.



#87 Jon83

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 11:28

They should merge with Caterham and streamline/reprofile. Caterham have yet to score, Lotus are protential WCC fighters. One can guarantee their future the other cannot. It makes sense from a managememt point of view.

 

I don't see how that would help. 



#88 f1engineer

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 17:50

rod nelson who was alonso's race engineer will leave lotus to join williams as head test engineer, effective immediately



#89 emmanuelrubi

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 19:35

rod nelson who was alonso's race engineer will leave lotus to join williams as head test engineer, effective immediately

 

Do you have a source for this ?, damn its terrible to see Lotus loosing key personnel like this if Mclaren went that bad with the departure of just one man i cant imagine how its going to be Lotus in 2014 if they even make it there.



#90 f1engineer

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 20:18

Do you have a source for this ?, damn its terrible to see Lotus loosing key personnel like this if Mclaren went that bad with the departure of just one man i cant imagine how its going to be Lotus in 2014 if they even make it there.

 

no web source. i work for a f1 team. i know this through my contacts at other teams and it is 100% reliable information. williams will announce it soon, i'm sure



#91 MustangSally

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 20:42

rod nelson who was alonso's race engineer will leave lotus to join williams as head test engineer, effective immediately

 

Oh, say it ain't so.

 

He was brought in by Williams before and he was . . . .  (rhymes with 'app')

 

As long he's only testing stuff somewhere in the background. 

 

Maybe Symonds felt sorry for him being made redundant at Lotus?



#92 emmanuelrubi

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 22:49

no web source. i work for a f1 team. i know this through my contacts at other teams and it is 100% reliable information. williams will announce it soon, i'm sure

 

 

Well pretty sad for Lotus going this way and I'm starting to worry because even if they make it to the grid in 2014 probably they will be fighting toro rosso.



#93 PoleMan

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 22:55

no web source. i work for a f1 team. i know this through my contacts at other teams and it is 100% reliable information. williams will announce it soon, i'm sure

Always great having an "insider" on here. Hopefully, YOU don't work for Lotus, but if you do, maybe you're the next one on the move.  :)



#94 fluffy38

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:23

I, myself work for an f1 team (not lotus), lotus are confident of being on the grid next year with a decent car.. if that reassures people..



#95 f1engineer

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:14

I, myself work for an f1 team (not lotus), lotus are confident of being on the grid next year with a decent car.. if that reassures people..

 

i'm not as sure - i dont know if they will make all of the tests and if they do whether they make it with an appropriate car or just whatever they can get there to save face. the outpouring of people now is getting extreme



#96 fluffy38

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:21

i'm not as sure - i dont know if they will make all of the tests and if they do whether they make it with an appropriate car or just whatever they can get there to save face. the outpouring of people now is getting extreme

 

Yup, I agree.. my source seemed fairly confident about lotus making it to the grid and the tests...

It's a big shame though, I've always been a Renault/Lotus fan..and it's hard to see them slip down



#97 Richard T

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 15:49

Does Lotus have a confirmed engine supplier for 2014 yet?

#98 Exb

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 16:05

Are the Renault engines even going to be ready for the first test even if Lotus gets itself sorted out? I saw a rumour about a week ago suggesting they are struggling to be ready, but it was only 1 article so I'm really hoping its false as I am still hoping to get to Jerez so it would be good to see all the teams there.

#99 Zava

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 16:10

Are the Renault engines even going to be ready for the first test even if Lotus gets itself sorted out? I saw a rumour about a week ago suggesting they are struggling to be ready, but it was only 1 article so I'm really hoping its false as I am still hoping to get to Jerez so it would be good to see all the teams there.

even if the rumour is true, I doubt they would pass on 4 days' mileage. the worst I can imagine is that they can't bring their newest spec stuff to the first test, only to the second.



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#100 emmanuelrubi

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:47

Michael Taylor is set to replace departing Rod Nelson.