124 replies to this topic

[Jongas]

Perez now confirmed for FI...

[Slackbladder]

No Surprise, Perez deserves another shot at a reasonable (if not top) team.

 

Won't miss Sutil or DiResta really...

[rasul]

Good choice. He certainly deserves another shot.

[Group B]

Yup, makes for a good pairing at FI.

[SealTheDiffuser]

very accurate rumor mill this year

 

PER vs HUL will be a good comparison too

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 12 December 2013 - 14:34.

[KavB]

Good decision even though I think Di Resta performed better this season. I expect Force India to comfortably beat the other midfield teams as long as they produce a decent car. 

 

Interesting to see Perez was not linked with a return to Sauber. If Gutierrez is retained then it shows they still need a driver with the Mexican link. Do they not rate him or was he not interested at all in returning there? I remember Peter Sauber being disappointed they did not win Monza last year.

[Krchan]

Great news! I think FI has a very strong team for next year. Great drivers, probably the best engine... and I think they will be stronger than Lotus, so good choice for Checo and Hulk to chose FI over Lotus. And I think it will be very interesting battle betwene two of them next season.

[goingthedistance]

Quite a strong line-up. Hopefully they produce a car to do them justice. 

 

Should be an exciting intra-team battle this one. We know that Perez is not far off Button, really, so if Hulkenberg thrashes him he'll come out looking very good. Not impossible it'll go the other way though. 

[Peat]

It's pretty good opportunism by FIF1 and justifies thier 'late-in-the-day' driver signings approach. 

There was a point a few weeks ago when we were all saying "Wow, who would have thought that Perez & Hulk would be without a drive???" They saw their chance, sacked off their mediocre pairing and have now got one that any team would be proud of. Chapeau.

[rjsports]

Strong line-up. Although I have my doubts about Perez, but it's still a logical choice.

[KWSN - DSM]

Both Perez and Hulkenberg are and have been seen as young up and coming drivers, so measuring them against each other will go a way to confirm one over the other, or possibly make either seem less stellar. For what is is worth I expect Hulkenberg to have the upper hand, but that it will be tighter / closer than expected.

 

[Khars]

Great news! Strong line-up for Force India! Is in enough for 4-5th place in WCC? Or higher with a mighty Merc engine?

Sorry for poor Paul, but 'every team needs to move on'. 

 

OK, now FI is done, what will be with Sauber? Shoot-out between 4-5 drivers?

[ensign14]

Subject to the TBAs, Perez' signing at FIndia means that 50% of the grid will have bought their place.  I don't recall talent being that little in demand before.

[f1fan1998]

Subject to the TBAs, Perez' signing at FIndia means that 50% of the grid will have bought their place.  I don't recall talent being that little in demand before.

 

So name me 8.5 drivers who have paid from those signed (17 confirmed) and confirmed:

 

Red Bull-Renault Sebastian Vettel Daniel Ricciardo Mercedes Lewis Hamilton Nico Rosberg Ferrari Fernando Alonso Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault Romain Grosjean Pastor Maldonado McLaren-Mercedes Jenson Button Kevin Magnussen Force India-Mercedes Nico Hulkenberg Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari tba tba Toro Rosso-Renault Jean-Eric Vergne Daniil Kvyat Williams-Mercedes Felipe Massa Valtteri Bottas Marussia-Ferrari Jules Bianchi tba Caterham-Renault tba tba

 

Thanks

[santababy]

Strong line-up. I think FI will do better than Lotus next year.

[sopa]

So name me 8.5 drivers who have paid from those signed (17 confirmed) and confirmed:

 

Red Bull-Renault Sebastian Vettel Daniel Ricciardo Mercedes Lewis Hamilton Nico Rosberg Ferrari Fernando Alonso Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault Romain Grosjean Pastor Maldonado McLaren-Mercedes Jenson Button Kevin Magnussen Force India-Mercedes Nico Hulkenberg Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari tba tba Toro Rosso-Renault Jean-Eric Vergne Daniil Kvyat Williams-Mercedes Felipe Massa Valtteri Bottas Marussia-Ferrari Jules Bianchi tba Caterham-Renault tba tba

 

Thanks

 

Maybe at a stretch 7 can be found.

 

Grosjean (Total pays for his seat)

Maldonado (PDVSA)

Perez (Telmex???)

Massa (??)

Bottas (a couple of Finnish sponsors)

Bianchi (Ferrari)

 

And of course Alonso (Santander)

 

What about STR boys?

[Jackmancer]

Even their flags look alike;

 

Great line-up though, Perez and Hulkenberg. Both talented, one with money, one with even more talent.

[Gyan]

It'll be make or break for both Hulkenberg and Perez next year. Hulkenberg beating Perez would only help in improving his status to the best of the rest, whereas Perez beating Hulkenberg would be much needed redemption for Perez.

[emmanuelrubi]

I think they will beat Lotus for 5th next year.

[JohnDoe]

Great news for Force India. If the Mercedes engines are as good as the rumors suggest, then they might even have a chance at the elusive win. Hopefully both drivers continue to push the other, just  not off the track.

[gd2]

Money Talks, unfortunately.

[Coral]

I feel sorry for di Resta. Sadly his face just does not fit in F1...not happy and smiley enough and, of course, no money.

[ebc]

So name me 8.5 drivers who have paid from those signed (17 confirmed) and confirmed:

 

Red Bull-Renault Sebastian Vettel Daniel Ricciardo Mercedes Lewis Hamilton Nico Rosberg Ferrari Fernando Alonso Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault Romain Grosjean Pastor Maldonado McLaren-Mercedes Jenson Button Kevin Magnussen Force India-Mercedes Nico Hulkenberg Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari tba tba Toro Rosso-Renault Jean-Eric Vergne Daniil Kvyat Williams-Mercedes Felipe Massa Valtteri Bottas Marussia-Ferrari Jules Bianchi tba Caterham-Renault tba tba

 

Thanks

 

Glad someone posted that, people are going mad about paid drivers when in reality there are only a few just like any other era in the history of F1.  Out of those you mentioned only Maldonado you could say is a pay driver and he is a GP2 champ and a Grand Prix winner.   The reality is that F1 is in a very healthy state with regards to the talent involved probably the best group of drivers there has ever been at one time, yet people still complain about something that isn't there.

 

There is a difference between paying for a seat and receiving sponsorship,Grosjean for example is sponsored by Total because he is good and he would be in F1 anyway while Max Chilton is only in F1 because of money.

 

DiResta is not good enough to stick around, he is not going to be a world champion or even a regular race winner so why keep him?

Edited by ebc, 12 December 2013 - 15:25.

[ensign14]

So name me 8.5 drivers who have paid from those signed (17 confirmed) and confirmed:

 

Red Bull-Renault Sebastian Vettel Daniel Ricciardo Mercedes Lewis Hamilton Nico Rosberg Ferrari Fernando Alonso Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault Romain Grosjean Pastor Maldonado McLaren-Mercedes Jenson Button Kevin Magnussen Force India-Mercedes Nico Hulkenberg Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari tba tba Toro Rosso-Renault Jean-Eric Vergne Daniil Kvyat Williams-Mercedes Felipe Massa Valtteri Bottas Marussia-Ferrari Jules Bianchi tba Caterham-Renault tba tba

 

Thanks

 

Perez, Maldonado, Bottas, Massa, the two at Caterham will surely be pay drivers, the two at Sauber ditto, and the TBA at Marussia.  And Bianchi's drive there is being paid for by Ferrari.  So that's 10.

 

I would submit that Kvyat and Grosjean are being eased into their drives by a modicum of spondulix as well.

[Fastcake]

It's been the stated line up for weeks now, and it's given Force India a strong pair for next year. I expect the team to remain at the forefront behind the top teams.

[Cyanide]

Money Talks, unfortunately.

 

I like when people use that expression when they have zero clue what's happening in the background. Who said Perez was chosen for his money?

[f1fan1998]

Maybe at a stretch 7 can be found.

 

Grosjean (Total pays for his seat)

Maldonado (PDVSA)

Perez (Telmex???)

Massa (??)

Bottas (a couple of Finnish sponsors)

Bianchi (Ferrari)

 

And of course Alonso (Santander)

 

What about STR boys?

 

 

This is my point. There are a lot of pay drivers crowding the market. That much is for sure, but the market is no more saturated with pay drivers that it ever was. It is probably less so than the early - mid 90s.

 

- Grosjean is full time pro. Total sponsor the team and he is their preferred choice. Total would still sponsor the team regardless.

- Maldonado. No arguments there.

- Perez is on the Telmex gravy train, but his time at McLaren was not conditional on sponsors and he is not a pay driver anymore than Alonso. However based on what Autosport has said today, perhaps he is.

- Massa, no.

- Bottas, no. Bringing your own sponsors to your helmet / race suit does not make you a pay driver. Driver's (Mansell for example) have had personal sponsors forever. Footballers and Athletes and Tennis players do. 

- Bianchi, no. He is on the Ferrari Academy programme and that does not equal a pay driver in my books. 

- Alonso, not now, not ever. That is total nonsense. 

- Vergne, is paid quite handsomely and is an academy driver. What money would he even need to bring?

- Kvayt, as per Vergne.

 

I can only see two pay drivers therefore.

[ensign14]

The thing is, back in the 90s, there were more places.  Indeed someone like Forti would not have been in F1 without Diniz' dad's millions.  But that did not stop genuine talent from getting in, with sponsors trusting the team to get it right, rather than wanting their Chosen One in a seat without meriting it.  And it was also a detriment to teams; Bernie Brabham never won a constructors' title, despite having the best car, because Piquet was teamed with someone numptious.

 

But midfield and lower-midfield teams were able to choose at least one driver on merit.  Look at Tyrrell, for example.  Gave debuts to Alesi, Brundle, Alboreto and others.  After 1977 Williams always chose their drivers.  They never had to stoop to picking a Massa.  (And if you don't believe he's a pay driver, then you have to believe that Claire Williams, looking at a driver market with Hulk, di Resta, Bianchi, indeed Perez and other talents available, such as Frijns or Wickens, decided to choose Felipe Massa on merit.  Last I looked Claire Williams was a functioning human being, so I doubt that that's even remotely feasible.)

[Lennat]

Good choice by Force India. He's not any worse than Di Resta och Sutil, and brings some descent money.

[PayasYouRace]

Looks like an good line-up then. It'll be interesting to see how he does against the Hulk.

[gd2]

 

DiResta is not good enough to stick around, he is not going to be a world champion or even a regular race winner so why keep him?

 I think Perez would have been slower tha Di Resta this year. Paul is a proven winner elsewhere and will be again, let's not forget, though we are frequently reminded,  he beat Vettel in F3. Unfortunately he's not got a sugar Daddy and someone told him to be too serious. There's lot of drivers that haven't been regular winners until the right car arrived and given Paul has never had the right car those statements are impossible to make. Autosport in their 2013 review summed it up perfectly. "It would be farcical if he was not in F1 in 2014!"

Edited by gd2, 12 December 2013 - 15:58.

[rjsports]

Many others are also proven winners in different categories, Di Resta has had the chance to show what he's capable of since 2011. He hasn't impressed the top teams enough to get a contract, then it's not a big surprise that you will lose a seat in the midfield teams. Look at Sutil, it still wonders me why on earth he got that 6th chance from FI. Don't get me wrong they are decent drivers, and much better than some of the others with a contract but that's about it.

[ensign14]

Sutil got that extra chance because he bought it.  Hence him being in the frame for Sauber whereas di Resta is not. 

[P123]

Good line-up for FI, stronger than most teams.

[Hayden1]

paydriver bought his chair again 

[Anderis]

They never had to stoop to picking a Massa.  (And if you don't believe he's a pay driver, then you have to believe that Claire Williams, looking at a driver market with Hulk, di Resta, Bianchi, indeed Perez and other talents available, such as Frijns or Wickens, decided to choose Felipe Massa on merit.  Last I looked Claire Williams was a functioning human being, so I doubt that that's even remotely feasible.)

Frijns, Wickens and perhaps Bianchi would've never been in the frame for a seat, I guess. Williams clearly wanted an experienced driver next to Bottas for 2014 to ensure they get the right feedback from their drivers during recovering from a poor season in the era of the biggest technical changes in the history of F1. I'm sure Hulk would've never chosen Williams over Force India and I'm not sure Perez would in current situation either. That leaves only di Resta from your list, who is reportedly very hard to work with, which is a clear disadvantage in the situation in which Williams are now.

 

 

Sutil got that extra chance because he bought it.  Hence him being in the frame for Sauber whereas di Resta is not. 

Judging by presence of his sponsors on the car, he brings no more than $2-3 million. That certainly not enough to buy a seat. He got extra chance because Force India didn't see anybody who would have been vastly superior to Sutil in terms of performance.

[Andy35]

If only this was Sauber and not FI  I could proudly exclaim  

 

Monisha Kaltenborn has a nice pair

 

but it isn't.  So  I can't.

 

But will be interesting to see how they do against each other. I still think  McLaren were a bit rough on Perez last year, at least he has some fire, unlike Button who seems to be slightly coasting.

 

Andy

[Jvr]

Perez, Maldonado, Bottas, Massa, the two at Caterham will surely be pay drivers, the two at Sauber ditto, and the TBA at Marussia.  And Bianchi's drive there is being paid for by Ferrari.  So that's 10.
 
I would submit that Kvyat and Grosjean are being eased into their drives by a modicum of spondulix as well.

The pay driver definition is difficult. There are multiple ways to assess the concept, but e.g. if you use the amount of sponsorship money brought in vs. team budget ratio I must say Alonso is more a pay driver than Bottas.

[Spillage]

Interesting. Very, very interesting. FI has just gone from having the most average driver line-up on the grid to one of the most exciting. Good business for them, prospect of a very strong 2014.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

If they can produce a good car, I can see some very exciting results for the team next year. Not saying they'll win a race, but if the car is good enough, maybe a podium or 2 may not be out of the question. It's certainly an exciting lineup, just hope they give them a good car.

[mclarensmps]

Great news for Perez. FI have a strong driver pairing, lets hope they produce a decent car. I still wished McLaren kept Perez and dropped Button, but there you go. I'm glad Perez is still around, he's a good driver.

[Tarzaan]

I thought Telmes change gutierez to Perez in Sauber. So is this mean they will support 2 teams, or just FI and Gutierez is out from Sauber?

[BoozeBaron]

So where does this put Sutil?

[William Hunt]

Silly that people claim that Perez just bought his ride.

Even if he didn't bring any money he was still the best and quickest driver available on the market.

Now they have a superb line-up with two talented drivers.

[emmanuelrubi]

I dont get why people think PDR is Better than Perez.

 

First he got "Top Team" Experience and lots of learning this year at McLaren.

 

Best Result: two times 2nd (Sauber) while paul was two times 4th (Force India) and this results based on middle team standards.

 

In 3 years Perez has more points than PDR nothing else to say there.

 

During this season PDR retired 6 times while Perez having the fame of a crash master only retired 2 times.

 

During their whole career (both 3 years) its true that Perez have retired 11 against PDR who has retired 7 plus Perez have been part of 57 races against 58 of PDR which then Proves than Perez is better because even that he has 4 more retirements than PDR and one race less he have managed to beat PDR in Points during the last 3 years.

 

None of them have any wins but Perez have 3 podiums against PDR who don't have any.

 

In terms of raw pace i don't think PDR is any faster than Perez, while PDR has speed lets not forget S.P outqualified 10 - 9 Jenson Button which people can say he is slow he is old and whatever but lets not forget something he has 10 more years of experience over S.P and he is a W.D.C something people tend to forget.

 

In terms of experience lets not forget PDR is 27 while Perez is only 23 there is way much more potential in Perez who at only 23 knows the pressure of being on a "Top Team" than on Paul who is no kid anymore.

 

In financial terms while people tend to mark Perez as a pay driver i don't find why how can that be bad if he is more talented that the one he is replacing this is not a Maldonado - Hulkenberg situation where a really really bad driver bought it place at a team i think that with the extra $$$ they can even develop a more competitive car while PDR don't bring any at all.

 

Talking about attitude, while Perez had to deal with probably a Caterham dressed as a McLaren he was always supportive to the team he recognize when he was wrong and never hit directly on the team (E.g. Maldonado at Austin) people tend to mark him as arrogant (especially Brit press) but he never acted IMO. like that, talking about arrogance how about PDR who during his 3 year career at FI most of the time he tough he was a lot more than the team deserved, when something good happened it was because of him (E.g. Belgium) but when something bad happened it was team fault (Maldonado Style), i think attitude its a major flaw on PDR.

 

People tend to underrate S.P a lot while i don't think he is W.D.C material at least not yet, i don't find PDR any better at least not in numbers which speak stronger than anything else, in this kind of situation nationalism plays an important role so thats why most Brits are moaning about Perez taking PDR place but speaking in fair terms i don't see why it was a bad idea of FI to replace PDR with a faster, well backed & more "talented" & more experienced (in terms of being part of top teams and fight for podiums) driver with IMO a better attitude.

[mattt]

Poor Nico

[DanardiF1]

That's a decent lineup at Force India now... thank god Sutil's gone (I hope he doesn't turn up elsewhere, though Sauber seems likely).

 

I think Perez can reach higher peaks than Di Resta but McLaren was just not the right team or time for him...

[UPRC]

Hulkenberg and Perez, huh? Force India has quite the line up for next year. I'd wager that it's the best they've ever had. Hopefully they'll build a solid car for next season!

[Andrew Hope]

Sutil fan reporting in, but this is a sweet line-up. Give them a 2009ish type car again and both of their drivers could be threatening for wins.

[JHSingo]

Strong line-up, and sensible decision.

 

Can't say I'll miss Di Resta. Whether you view Perez as a pay driver or not, fact is that Perez has finished on the podium, and Di Resta hasn't. They've been in the sport the same length of time...