Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 3 votes

Rallying - 2014 thread


  • Please log in to reply
1145 replies to this topic

#1 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 13 December 2013 - 19:35

Since today most of the seats got filled and the deadline for manufacturers entries and monte entries passed, I think it is high time for a new thread.

 

We have some regulation changes both in WRC and ERC (WRC ditches qualy stages because they seem to be a problem for potential TV broadcasting, while ERC which doesn't have so many TV issues adopts them :drunk: :drunk:, manufacturers in WRC have to name one permanent driver for 10 rounds only etc ), there was a lot of movement on the driver market, so this is a properly NEW season :)

 

While Ogier/VW will probably take the titles again and the live timing will work like a crap, I think it is going to be a great season. For instance I can't wait to se how will Meeke and Evans do, if Hirvonen finds his mojo back, and of course how will go RK's second season of proper rallying. I'm trying not to get overly hyped, by I think he may throw a surprise here and there. And I'm super happy he is doing the whole season.

 

There is also hyundai, and while nobody expects them that they will Polo the 2014 season, I think it will be interesting to see their progress.

 

And the promoter promisses more live coverage, plus internet broadcast of the service park. What we had during rally France was great and I hope everything goes into that direction. Maybe we will indeed see some live power stages... But what is one stage in fact... I'm pretty sure some Polish station buys rights at least for rally Poland (RK is really huge here) so in the worst scenario you'll be able to hear some of our beautiful language:)

 

131211_hyu.jpg

 

So, 2014 line-ups:

 

Citroen: Meeke/Ostberg

Hyundai: Neuville/Hanninen/Atkinson/Sordo

M-Sport: Evans/Hirvonen and Kubica in something like a "satelite" team, though ATM I'm not sure what is the character of their deal

VW: Ogier/Latvala/Mikkelsen

 

There will be Prokop I guess, BOuffier is said to start in monte, and Paddon is optimistic about what looks like 7-8 rounds programme in WRC.

There is also no word about Kościuszko after his back problems. Also it seems that Lotos decided to put a lot of their resources into RK's programme, so nobody knows if we will se Michał at WRC stages. Also there are some whispers his co-driver is one of the candidates for RK's right seat.

 

WRC calendar:

 

mco.gif Rallye Monte Carlo 14 - 19 Jan 14  

 

swe.gif Rally Sweden 05 - 08 Feb 14     mex.gif Rally Guanajuato Mexico 06 - 09 Mar 14     prt.gif Vodafone Rally de Portugal 03 - 06 Apr 14     arg.gif Philips LED Rally Argentina 08 - 11 May 14     ita.gif Rally d'Italia Sardegna 06 - 08 Jun 14     pol.gif Lotos Rally Poland 27 - 29 Jun 14     fin.gif Neste Oil Rally Finland 01 - 03 Aug 14     deu.gif ADAC Rallye Deutschland 22 - 24 Aug 14     aus.gif Coates Hire Rally Australia 12 - 14 Sep 14     fra.gif Rallye de France-Alsace 03 - 05 Oct 14     esp.gif RallyRACC-Rally de Espana 24 - 26 Oct 14     gbr.gif Wales Rally GB 14 - 16 Nov 14    

 

 

 

FIA ERC calendar:

01: 31 Int. Jännerrallye, Oberösterreich (Austria), Asphalt/snow, 3-5 January 2014
02: Rally Liepāja (Latvia), Gravel/snow, 31 January-2 February 2014
03: Sibiu Rally Romania, Gravel/snow, 27 February-1 March 2014
04: Acropolis Rally (Greece), Asphalt/gravel, 28-30 March 2014
05: Circuit of Ireland Rally (United Kingdom), Asphalt, 17-19 April 2014
06: 49th SATA Rallye Açores (Portugal), Gravel, 15-17 May 2014
07: Geko Ypres Rally (Belgium), Asphalt, 19-21 June 2014
08: auto24 Rally Estonia (Estonia), Gravel, 17-19 July 2014
09: Barum Czech Rally Zlín (Czech Republic), Asphalt, 29-31 August 2014
10: Cyprus Rally (Cyprus), Asphalt/gravel, 19-21 September 2014
11: Rallye International du Valais (Switzerland), Asphalt/gravel, 23-25 October 2014
12: Giru di Corsica-Tour de Corse (France), Asphalt, 6-8 November 2014**

*Subject to ratification by the FIA World Motor Sport Council
**Subject to the signing of the event promoter agreement

 

 

I hereby state the rally fever is on!

 

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:



Advertisement

#2 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 13 December 2013 - 19:43

And some test videos:

(looks like some balance issues "oversteering then understeering" btw)

 

 



#3 Domi

Domi
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 13 December 2013 - 20:10

:up:



#4 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 2,435 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 13 December 2013 - 21:01

Great OP :up: I'm looking forward to an exciting season next year.



#5 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 13 December 2013 - 23:11

Anyone Spanish here? Google translate helps but I'm so surprised I'd love to read some real translation. Am I correct and VW don't want RK to use paddleshift?

http://translate.goo...658_966307.html

 

original:http://motor.as.com/...658_966307.html

 

 

 

Something to whet the apetite:



#6 artista

artista
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,205 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 13 December 2013 - 23:22

Anyone Spanish here? Google translate helps but I'm so surprised I'd love to read some real translation. Am I correct and VW don't want RK to use paddleshift?
http://translate.goo...658_966307.html

original:http://motor.as.com/...658_966307.html
...


That's right, the article says, it seems VW has sent a letter to the FIA requesting the paddleshift not to be allowed in Kubica's car, since it is specifically forbidden in the rules.

BUT, that article is written by Pipo López and he isn't the most reliable. I would wait till something about it is written by someone more credible before giving it a second thought. :)

#7 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 14 December 2013 - 02:57

Oh, I'm so torn on that topic. I want every driver to drive under the same rules. At the same time, if a driver had lost his arm, and then wanted to do a comeback, it would be idiotic to disallow that because of that shifter rule. Then again, two hands on the wheel, is a very significant advantage in rally. And like every single thing in motorsport designed to equal things out. It's impossible to figure out the advantage of two hands on the wheel and the disadvantage of a slightly slower shifting mechanism. And then making it the same.

 

He did prove, when the system failed last year, that he manged to drive like everyone else, and on that basis, I would like to see him drive the same M-Sport Fiesta as everyone else.



#8 Domi

Domi
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 14 December 2013 - 09:31

Oh, I'm so torn on that topic. I want every driver to drive under the same rules. At the same time, if a driver had lost his arm, and then wanted to do a comeback, it would be idiotic to disallow that because of that shifter rule. Then again, two hands on the wheel, is a very significant advantage in rally. And like every single thing in motorsport designed to equal things out. It's impossible to figure out the advantage of two hands on the wheel and the disadvantage of a slightly slower shifting mechanism. And then making it the same.

 

He did prove, when the system failed last year, that he manged to drive like everyone else, and on that basis, I would like to see him drive the same M-Sport Fiesta as everyone else.

 

 

Then If they dissalow this system for him, then others will have advantage over him by having full hand :rotfl:   I didn't thinked that someone will have problem with that... He have almost 1,5 hand,  and it isn't the easiest thing for him to changing gears on laver and moving hand from wheel to laver :/

 

 

I think they should do paddle shifters allowed for everyone and this would be the best thing. I don't know why they are not


Edited by Domi, 14 December 2013 - 09:34.


#9 MaGiK

MaGiK
  • Member

  • 202 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 14 December 2013 - 10:17

He did prove, when the system failed last year, that he manged to drive like everyone else, and on that basis, I would like to see him drive the same M-Sport Fiesta as everyone else.

Yea he menaged to drive it...but he was very slow because he had difficulties with switching gears.

He has serious problems not only with rotation but also hand grip  (grabing things fast)

Thats why he has his handbrake set to pushing instead of pulling.

If he cant  quickly release wheel and grab handbrake, i guess its similar with gear stick so hed have to drive all the time with right hand on stick.



#10 cravenciak

cravenciak
  • Member

  • 223 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 14 December 2013 - 10:52

OMG.... I wish it's real.

1490743_723763674315173_662416109_o.jpg



#11 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:08

well it isn't, i think he also made a grey one with funky red wheels:-)

#12 cravenciak

cravenciak
  • Member

  • 223 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:33

well it isn't,

 

You don't say?  :rolleyes: 



#13 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:38

sorry didn't mean to be a captain obvious:-)

#14 x600

x600
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:20

The title of this thread is misleading. It should be called "Kubica - 2014 thread".

#15 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:34

@up: Feel free to contribute something on topic instead of such BS.

 

 

Oh, I'm so torn on that topic. I want every driver to drive under the same rules. At the same time, if a driver had lost his arm, and then wanted to do a comeback, it would be idiotic to disallow that because of that shifter rule. Then again, two hands on the wheel, is a very significant advantage in rally. And like every single thing in motorsport designed to equal things out. It's impossible to figure out the advantage of two hands on the wheel and the disadvantage of a slightly slower shifting mechanism. And then making it the same.

 

He did prove, when the system failed last year, that he manged to drive like everyone else, and on that basis, I would like to see him drive the same M-Sport Fiesta as everyone else.

If anything, he is at a disadvantage. Think about it, he doesn't have full mobility, grip and strength in one of his arms. Paddle shifter wont change this.

 

I'd be surprised if this rumor is true. Does VW fear that Robert will be a big challenge for them? Do they want all the bad PR associated with this? Zanardi using special controls and a sequential gearbox (instead of a normal manual) in WTCC wasn't a problem for other competitors, it's rather unlikely that VW will make problems in case of much smaller modifications.


Edited by DrProzac, 14 December 2013 - 12:48.


#16 Lord_Shaitan

Lord_Shaitan
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 14 December 2013 - 14:02

A few words from Colin:

 

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally

My understanding is that there is more to "paddle shift gate" than meets the eye. A bit of politics being played perhaps?



#17 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 2,435 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 14 December 2013 - 17:08

http://www.topgear.c...ying-2013-12-12

 

I saw this a few minutes ago and laughed; I guess the drivers really are sorcerers :lol:



#18 Option1

Option1
  • Member

  • 13,140 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 14 December 2013 - 17:42

:up: to the OP.

 

Neil



#19 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 14 December 2013 - 18:54

 

Then If they dissalow this system for him, then others will have advantage over him by having full hand  :rotfl:   I didn't thinked that someone will have problem with that... He have almost 1,5 hand,  and it isn't the easiest thing for him to changing gears on laver and moving hand from wheel to laver :/

 

 

I think they should do paddle shifters allowed for everyone and this would be the best thing. I don't know why they are not

 

Yes, they will, but that's sadly how life is. Nothing is totally equal.
I don't remember the reason for disallowing it, but I like that they don't have the paddle shifters anymore :)

 

 

Yea he menaged to drive it...but he was very slow because he had difficulties with switching gears.

He has serious problems not only with rotation but also hand grip  (grabing things fast)

Thats why he has his handbrake set to pushing instead of pulling.

If he cant  quickly release wheel and grab handbrake, i guess its similar with gear stick so hed have to drive all the time with right hand on stick.

 

I know this, and that's why I'm torn on the topic. I basically mean that rules are the same for everyone, and that life ain't fair, if you are unlucky, and some parts of your body isn't up to speed, then it sucks, but you ain't able to do everything that you used to.
This sounds harsh, but it's how it is. At the same time, as long as there are no advantage, one should try to accommodate every person.
 

If anything, he is at a disadvantage. Think about it, he doesn't have full mobility, grip and strength in one of his arms. Paddle shifter wont change this.

 

I'd be surprised if this rumor is true. Does VW fear that Robert will be a big challenge for them? Do they want all the bad PR associated with this? Zanardi using special controls and a sequential gearbox (instead of a normal manual) in WTCC wasn't a problem for other competitors, it's rather unlikely that VW will make problems in case of much smaller modifications.

No it won't, but it will give him 2 hands on the wheel, at all times, and that is an advantage, even if it's just 1.5 i armstrength.
Seq? It was only the old 5-speed that was H-pattern at BMW. All other cars had sequential gearbox.
But then again, having everything on the steering wheel, is not that much of an advantage. Yes, you get both hands on the wheel. But it's less important in circuit-racing. And, when you have clutch, gear, throttle and brake on the steering wheel, the inputs won't be as defined, as complex as having just gearbox on the steering wheel.

 

And x300 is sort of right. This is Kubica - 2014 thread so far.



Advertisement

#20 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 14 December 2013 - 19:55

Then start talking about something else instead of complaining.

 

 

No it won't, but it will give him 2 hands on the wheel, at all times, and that is an advantage, even if it's just 1.5 i armstrength.

Not a chance it's better to have a second hand with not enough grip and/or strength to operate a normal shifter 100% of the time on the steering wheel than two fully fit hands 90% of the time. Especially when the shifter is right next to the wheel.

 

They disallowed paddle shifters to make the cars cheaper / closer to S2000. I don't think it made a real difference though.


Edited by DrProzac, 14 December 2013 - 19:57.


#21 MaGiK

MaGiK
  • Member

  • 202 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 15 December 2013 - 07:36

I think Meeke will suprise many people this season.

#22 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:29

Yeah, I think he may too. I just hope the fact it si a full season for him will make a big difference and he will show consistency as well as speed.



#23 GodHimself

GodHimself
  • Member

  • 206 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 15 December 2013 - 11:56

I've heard that Sordo-del Barrio partnership is no more. Does anyone know anything more about it, or it's just an unsubstantiated rumour?



#24 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 15 December 2013 - 11:59

It is true, but there were no issues between them - del Barrio wanted to do more rallies from what I understand (from Sordos interview during the Hyundai presentation). And Marca is reporting he is one of the candidates for RK's co-driver's seat, but I find it hard to imagine. :drunk:


Edited by MadYarpen, 15 December 2013 - 12:00.


#25 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 15 December 2013 - 12:19

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ev6eG9D20s0

 

It looks like Chris Patterson enjoyed the Kryterium Asów at Karowa street, during the Barbórka Rally :)

 

And for Polish fans, some good memories of the late Janusz Kulig:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JoDrUc9VnqQ



#26 artista

artista
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,205 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 15 December 2013 - 14:13

It is true, but there were no issues between them - del Barrio wanted to do more rallies from what I understand (from Sordos interview during the Hyundai presentation). And Marca is reporting he is one of the candidates for RK's co-driver's seat, but I find it hard to imagine. :drunk:


As far as I remember, del Barrio has experience singing notes, at least, in Spanish, English and Catalan (or was it Galician? Well, it was another of the official languages of Spain). And I think there were a couple of languages more he had experience with. I doubt (obviously) Polish is one of them, but many drivers can deal with notes in English, and for any of those drivers del Barrio would always be an interesting option.

#27 Domi

Domi
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 15 December 2013 - 14:44

I will just add one thing to the subject Myrvold.

 

This system is not builded from the air, right ? It is a good few kg's more to car weight. Where is here profit ? I am sure no one would like to drive with the system that Kubica has. He is even loosing on that rather than gaining.



#28 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 December 2013 - 16:26

I've heard that Sordo-del Barrio partnership is no more. Does anyone know anything more about it, or it's just an unsubstantiated rumour?

Yup, Marc Marti is the new guy. Not a bad choice that either.

 

As far as I remember, del Barrio has experience singing notes, at least, in Spanish, English and Catalan (or was it Galician? Well, it was another of the official languages of Spain).

Oh my. Do the spanish have something called Galician? Then you have the Gaelic in the Celtic language. Easy to mic the two of them

 

I will just add one thing to the subject Myrvold.

 

This system is not builded from the air, right ? It is a good few kg's more to car weight. Where is here profit ? I am sure no one would like to drive with the system that Kubica has. He is even loosing on that rather than gaining.

Might be, any sources for that? I'm struggling to see the logic of going from a stick to paddles, if that gives an disadvantage.



#29 Domi

Domi
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 15 December 2013 - 16:50

The system is not electronic. It is hydraulic system. I don;t know details but is somehow connected with handbrake system, and that's why it making issues with handbrake.

But it is not light system, so it have few kg's.

 

There is no solution that can give him more advantage than having two fully fit hands. Paddle give him just safe control over the car when he can keep his injured right hand on the wheel.

 

 

That's why when others would be able to use the same system I don't see anyone ho would like to use it, because it is shifting slower that traditional gear shifting and is more car weight, and a risk of failure.

 

 

 

 

ps. I heared from one source that VW only wanted to check construction of that system is it not giving advantage,  so let's wait and see...


Edited by Domi, 15 December 2013 - 17:03.


#30 GodHimself

GodHimself
  • Member

  • 206 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 15 December 2013 - 17:26

Might be, any sources for that? I'm struggling to see the logic of going from a stick to paddles, if that gives an disadvantage.

 

He said in an interview last year, that the system is there for safety reasons. I have no reasons not to believe him, anyway, FIA will deem what gives advantage and what does not.


Edited by GodHimself, 15 December 2013 - 17:28.


#31 artista

artista
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,205 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 15 December 2013 - 17:36

...

Oh my. Do the spanish have something called Galician? Then you have the Gaelic in the Celtic language. Easy to mic the two of them
...


Yep, it is a language that comes from Latin and is very similar to Portugese, BUT it is spoken in Galicia, the north west corner of the country. Galicia has a very strong Celtic influence. Traditional musical instrument of Galicia is bagpipe, for example. Oh! And the Celtic influence is also pretty evident in that they have always been very superstitious, believing in witches and ghosts and so on. Pretty interesting guys the Galicians, and they cook so well... And to make it on-topic: yes, they also have a very strong rallying tradition in that area :)

#32 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 December 2013 - 17:39

The system is not electronic. It is hydraulic system. I don;t know details but is somehow connected with handbrake system, and that's why it making issues with handbrake.

But it is not light system, so it have few kg's.

 

There is no solution that can give him more advantage than having two fully fit hands. Paddle give him just safe control over the car when he can keep his injured right hand on the wheel.

 

 

That's why when others would be able to use the same system I don't see anyone ho would like to use it, because it is shifting slower that traditional gear shifting and is more car weight, and a risk of failure.

 

 

 

 

ps. I heared from one source that VW only wanted to check construction of that system is it not giving advantage,  so let's wait and see...

Yup, it was the same problems when it was used by all the WRC teams, if the paddle-system failed, it f'ed up the handbrake due to the handbrake being hydraulic as well.

It didn't really answer my question though.
 

 

He said in an interview last year, that the system is there for safety reasons. I have no reasons not to believe him, anyway, FIA will deem what gives advantage and what does not.

Not thinking of Kubica with the last remark. But thinking of the WRC teams some years ago. If the paddle-system is an disadvantage, I'm struggling to see why they chose to go down that road compared to a seq-shifter.

 

 

Yep, it is a language that comes from Latin and is very similar to Portugese, BUT it is spoken in Galicia, the north west corner of the country. Galicia has a very strong Celtic influence. Traditional musical instrument of Galicia is bagpipe, for example. Oh! And the Celtic influence is also pretty evident in that they have always been very superstitious, believing in witches and ghosts and so on. Pretty interesting guys the Galicians, and they cook so well... And to make it on-topic: yes, they also have a very strong rallying tradition in that area   :)

 

You learn something new every day!  :D


Edited by Myrvold, 15 December 2013 - 17:40.


#33 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 15 December 2013 - 18:22

Apparently del Barrio knows Italian so maybe there is some truth to the rumours:)



#34 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 15 December 2013 - 19:05

 

Not thinking of Kubica with the last remark. But thinking of the WRC teams some years ago. If the paddle-system is an disadvantage, I'm struggling to see why they chose to go down that road compared to a seq-shifter.

 

I think the gearboxes where different back then. A gearbox built do be hydraulic operated will probably be better than a normal one with some shifter system attached.  Also, the system that Robert is using was tuned not to be faster than what other drivers are using - at least they said it was when the FIA allowed him to use it during his WRC2 campaign ;)



#35 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 15 December 2013 - 20:16

I think it is the end of story: http://translate.goo...onen/index.html



#36 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 December 2013 - 20:42

I think the gearboxes where different back then. A gearbox built do be hydraulic operated will probably be better than a normal one with some shifter system attached.  Also, the system that Robert is using was tuned not to be faster than what other drivers are using - at least they said it was when the FIA allowed him to use it during his WRC2 campaign ;)

Ye, I know they didn't get to use the system they had on the C4 due to that being way too quick on shifting. But I cannot see how it's supposed to be a disadvantage to use it, and that it's heavier.



#37 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 15 December 2013 - 21:09

When you add a system to the car, it becomes heavier. Quite simple :)

 

It could be an advantage. But not very likely if it's tuned to shift no faster than the regular setup. It makes driving easier in some situations (I don't think it makes a big difference for a fully fit driver though), but you get the extra weight and possible reliability issues. We can only speculate, but imho it would only provide an advantage if it changed gears faster.

 

But Robert is not fully fit, and this can only reduce the extra problems he has to tackle due to being handicapped. If someone want's to get as big advantage over him as possible, than sure they can protest that it is helping him so it's an advantage. But I don't think it's a point of view worth supporting. Actually I'll be hugely disappointed with VW if the rumors are true. Unless they only want to check if the system doesn't change gears faster than it should - than it's understandable.

 

Edit: it looks like VW had not intentions to ban the system. :up:

 

BTW, wouldn't it be cool to get some detailed information about the system they use and ho it compares - from technical point of view - to the gearboxes used pre 2011?


Edited by DrProzac, 15 December 2013 - 21:14.


#38 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 December 2013 - 21:18

When you add a system to the car, it becomes heavier. Quite simple :)

 

It could be an advantage. But not very likely if it's tuned to shift no faster than the regular setup. It makes driving easier in some situations (I don't think it makes a big difference for a fully fit driver though), but you get the extra weight and possible reliability issues. We can only speculate, but imho it would only provide an advantage if it changed gears faster.

 

But Robert is not fully fit, and this can only reduce the extra problems he has to tackle due to being handicapped. If someone want's to get as big advantage over him as possible, than sure they can protest that it is helping him so it's an advantage. But I don't think it's a point of view worth supporting. Actually I'll be hugely disappointed with VW if the rumors are true. Unless they only want to check if the system doesn't change gears faster than it should - than it's understandable.

 

Edit: it looks like VW had not intentions to ban the system. :up:

 

BTW, wouldn't it be cool to get some detailed information about the system they use and ho it compares - from technical point of view - to the gearboxes used pre 2011?

You add a system, but, no team would add it if it didn't give an advantage, that's where I'm coming from. And everyone added that in the mid naugthies. 

It would be awesome to get detailed information on the systems pre-2011, now, and Kubica's system, but from speed, weight and technical point of view! :)

EDIT: Regarding weight, does it really add weight? Doesn't a paddle shift system, just move the system from a stick and box on the dash, to behind the wheel. Checking out the Paddle-kits you can buy, it doesn't really seem massive, ranging from 65 to 160g.


Edited by Myrvold, 15 December 2013 - 21:22.


#39 Domi

Domi
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 15 December 2013 - 21:25

Seems everything is ok, and VW just wanted to check system, but everything is approved, so good ! LEt's forget about that and move to great season ahead of us :clap:



Advertisement

#40 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 15 December 2013 - 21:40

You add a system, but, no team would add it if it didn't give an advantage, that's where I'm coming from. And everyone added that in the mid naugthies. 

It would be awesome to get detailed information on the systems pre-2011, now, and Kubica's system, but from speed, weight and technical point of view! :)

EDIT: Regarding weight, does it really add weight? Doesn't a paddle shift system, just move the system from a stick and box on the dash, to behind the wheel. Checking out the Paddle-kits you can buy, it doesn't really seem massive, ranging from 65 to 160g.

 

The systems they used weren't tuned to be as slow as a normal shifter :) Also, I think it's a different situation when you have a gearbox that was designed to be a paddle shifter semi-automatic, than a sequential box with some hydraulics attached to the normally purely mechanical system. The second one will probably be heavier and not as fast.

 

I doubt it's as simple as adding the paddles (which are light) and plugging them somewhere. The gearboxes are mechanical AFAIK. So it has to add weight, when you add hydraulics that operate the shifter. How much, we can only guess. Nothing drastic, that's for sure.

 

Also remember that for 2011 they've limited the use of many lightweight materials and reduced the minimum weight. So it's probably not that easy to meet the limit.

 

@Domi, we have a technical debate here, who doesn't like one in the between seasons break :) Maybe someone with more knowledge will chip in and provide some insight to it.


Edited by DrProzac, 15 December 2013 - 22:00.


#41 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 15 December 2013 - 22:08

IIRC for this system they had to add a hydraulic pump, so it has to be like you are saying. I remember RK explaining he had to move all the hydraulic liquid that was in this system when it failed (from overheating I think). So it is definitely something more than just one paddle. With handbrake reversed I think it may be quite complex.



#42 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 15 December 2013 - 22:53

One thing is for sure, it would be very interesting to see this in a in depth feature somewhere! :)



#43 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 15 December 2013 - 23:01

True.

 

The handbreak is hydraulic anyway, so the pump is already there. But perhaps they use a more powerful one. I doubt that making the handbreak push instead of pull operated introduces any complexity. Attaching the hydraulics to the gearbox is a different matter, though.

 

In other news, RK won a rally in Italy, driving the Peugeot S2000. With Gerber as his co-driver. I guess Jakub will start with Robert in WRC as well, though nothing has been confirmed.

 

Also, Ostberg and Meeke are testing in preparation to Rally Monte Carlo.

http://wrc.net.pl/te...i-madsem-wideo/


Edited by DrProzac, 15 December 2013 - 23:02.


#44 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 16 December 2013 - 06:36

i wonder when will m-sport test before monte. and how are negotiations with a title sponsor going - i'm sure they need one.

#45 kosmic33

kosmic33
  • Member

  • 1,541 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 16 December 2013 - 16:32

I read on Twitter that VW weren't protesting the gearbox, they were looking for clarification on the specification of the hydraulic system being homologated.

Basically, they are looking to ensure that they are not at any further disadvantage....

 

Paddle shift boxes were done away with because they are ridiculously expensive and add nothing to the show. (a strangely common sense decision by the FIA)

They cost round about twice as much as an ordinary sequential for the gearbox alone.

I doubt the 100bar hydraulic systems were cheap either......



#46 Domi

Domi
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 16 December 2013 - 18:25

Volkswagen released statement which says that there was not any complain about the paddle shift, and all producent was discussing on that and accepted that any car Robert will drive in 2014 he will be able to use paddle on steering wheel. The topic of everything wasn't paddle on the wheel as tool advantage. It was just checking the main system that M-Sport will build that this will no change gears faster.


Edited by Domi, 16 December 2013 - 18:25.


#47 MaGiK

MaGiK
  • Member

  • 202 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 16 December 2013 - 19:00

Basicly they wanted to check if M-Sport system is slowed down, like Citroen one.

Anyway that will be very tough season for Robert.

I dont recall him driving at any rally with snow/ice so first 2 rounds will be massive challenge....aspecially Monte Carlo with changable conditions from clean asphal to ice.

My prediction is that he wont finish those 2 rallys :p

Later he might be finishing on top 6-8 on gravel. He should be pretty fast on tarmac rallys (3-5).

I expect that Meeke will get quite alot podiums and that Hirvonen will be more competetive after switching to M-Sport :p

 

 



#48 Domi

Domi
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 16 December 2013 - 19:09


I dont recall him driving at any rally with snow/ice so first 2 rounds will be massive challenge....aspecially Monte Carlo with changable conditions from clean asphal to ice.

 

 

Kopecky on Isle Canarias asked about Robert's gravel pace predictions says that he was testing with Robert and he (Robert )is very fast on snow and ice. But it was before accident, so we will see how it will goes now on snow.

If it will be no too much ice or snow on the road in Monte I think Robert will be quite fast, but let's see.

 

In today released interview for polish tv Robert said that the first part of the season he will take easy, but in second part if Fiesta will go how he thinks on tarmac it can be quite good.

If M-Sport will be ready with paddle shift system he will go to Janner Rallye.

 

 

About Meeke. It is hard to say. He will be fast but it's hard to predict it will finish on the finish or on the tree :p

 

I think Hirvo will be good on gravel but he should buy some tarmac lessons from Robert if he want some good results on hard surface.

 

 

I am very interested how Mikkelsen will go on 2nd season :)


Edited by Domi, 16 December 2013 - 19:44.


#49 LIMAK

LIMAK
  • New Member

  • 4 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 16 December 2013 - 21:16


I dont recall him driving at any rally with snow/ice so first 2 rounds will be massive challenge...

He will not be a complete rookie on changable conditions :cool:



#50 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 16 December 2013 - 21:21

haha thats the one with santa! :)

santa_kubica.jpg


Edited by MadYarpen, 16 December 2013 - 21:23.