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Rallying - 2014 thread


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#1301 EightGear

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 10:14

Mikko had the bad luck he was around in the Loeb era. If it wasn't for his presence Hirvonen would have been a 4-time World Rally champion.

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#1302 Myrvold

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 14:39

Mikko had the bad luck he was around in the Loeb era. If it wasn't for his presence Hirvonen would have been a 4-time World Rally champion.

Ye, but who knows what Subaru would've done, without Loeb, they would've been the top car in 2003, 2004 and might not have gone down the road they did with the dampers, which basically ended any chance for them to win again. Peugeot as well.



#1303 Bleu

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 15:30

When talking about Hirvonen and his career, how would you rank him within non-champions?

Other Finnish possibilities are Toivonen whose career ended with untimely death and if you want to ignore FIA Cup title, Alen.

 

Of the another nationalities, Munari has the same case as Alen. While driver is still alive, Märtin was a very strong driver before he pulled out following Michael Park's death. Panizzi was among strongest tarmac drivers for several years. Kenneth Eriksson was a front-runner for a decade and so on.



#1304 Rinehart

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 15:35

Mikko had the bad luck he was around in the Loeb era. If it wasn't for his presence Hirvonen would have been a 4-time World Rally champion.

Or perhaps Loeb had the good fortune of not such stiff competition...

 

Hirvonen doesn't look like a would have been 4 time champion to me. And if you apply that logic to everyone else, how many extra ones do you give Vatanen, McRae, Burns... there isn't enough silverware to go around. 



#1305 Zoetrope

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 18:12

I am huge Kubica fan, but just couldn't stop laughing at this shot  :rotfl: Perfect composition!

2q8zi9y.png



#1306 BRG

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 20:45

Mikko had the bad luck he was around in the Loeb era. If it wasn't for his presence Hirvonen would have been a 4-time World Rally champion.

I wouldn't have said Hirvonen had what it took to be a WRC,  he just never seemed to have quite the right stuff.  But then I checked and you are absolutely right, he was 2nd in the WRC four times behind Loeb.  But it perhaps raises the question of who would have been in the Citroen instead of Loeb, and whether that driver would have been championship material.

 

In a way, coming 2nd on Rally GB was a fitting end for Mikko's career, never quite reaching the top step.



#1307 EightGear

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 20:53

Of course, I know it doesn't work like that. :) You never know what would have happened without Loeb. Still the truth is he finished 2nd best 4 times to the best ever.

 

Now, on towards 2015. What will Citroen do? Will Tanak take Mikko's seat? Rumours are Ostberg has been offered 10 rounds at Citroen for 2015, but he wants all 13. 



#1308 thuGG

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:00

Meeke stays with Citroen. Good news  :)


Edited by thuGG, 18 November 2014 - 09:00.


#1309 Sheepmachine

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:40

Meeke stays with Citroen. Good news :)

Good news indeed. He showed lots of potential this year, if he can cut out some of the mistake he can certainly challenge the VWs. :)

#1310 Wingcommander

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 13:33

I wouldn't have said Hirvonen had what it took to be a WRC, he just never seemed to have quite the right stuff. But then I checked and you are absolutely right, he was 2nd in the WRC four times behind Loeb. But it perhaps raises the question of who would have been in the Citroen instead of Loeb, and whether that driver would have been championship material.

In a way, coming 2nd on Rally GB was a fitting end for Mikko's career, never quite reaching the top step.


This is pretty much what Marcus Grönholm said in an interview. Mikko was good but lacked that final push to be a champion.

#1311 tyker

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 14:55

Speaking of Gronholm he basically retired because he couldn't beat Loeb, I think those titles would have gone to him. he was certainly better than Hirvonen



#1312 AllenT

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 10:21

Tänak in Ford,

http://www.wrc.com/e...77--12-12-.html



#1313 BRG

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 19:28

Tanak and Evans?  Not a very strong line-up for M-Sport. How have the mighty fallen....



#1314 Myrvold

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 20:06

Tanak and Evans?  Not a very strong line-up for M-Sport. How have the mighty fallen....

I don't know... Tanak was mighty impressive in Sweden-Norway this year, and Evans have surprised me. Gone for the opposite of Kubica, starting slow, and slowly (very slowly) added some speed along the way, but not done much mistakes.



#1315 Dolph

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 20:56

I just hope Tänak can keep it clean.



#1316 Myrvold

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 23:27

Just wondering if anyone have heard the talk about Hirvonen going to do dev.work for Toyota? It's been said that Jarmo Lehtinen made a mistake and sort of told it during an interview in Wales. Also some talk about Loeb doing 2-3 rallies next year, in might do it in the rallies where it hurts the most being first on the road.



#1317 chunder27

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 00:54

Nothing really mighy about M Sport.

 

After all they ran Wilson for years! And could never consistently beat Loeb and Citroen.

 

They run a good team, and always have, but they were never able to get their cras to work on tarmac, Citroen were always quicker.  Never understood why.



#1318 Myrvold

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 00:53

M Sport looks like a team that's very good, but not excellent. But they running Wilson didn't take up a spot that would've gone to a better driver otherwise.



#1319 AlexLangheck

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 13:08

Nothing really mighy about M Sport.
 
After all they ran Wilson for years! And could never consistently beat Loeb and Citroen.
 
They run a good team, and always have, but they were never able to get their cras to work on tarmac, Citroen were always quicker.  Never understood why.


I presume they built a gravel Rally car - and accepted it wouldn't be as competitive on Tar; also, the 2nd version of the Focus was a 5 speed box. Whereas Citroen have always built a Tarmac car - and through the Xsara Kit car, Xsara WRC, C4 and DS3 have made it an all rounder.

I suspect M-Sport could build a better Tarmac car now with their experience with the Bentley GT3 car - and with input from racing drivers; rather than the Finns who are not usually known for their Tarmac skills.

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#1320 chunder27

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 15:40

I always found it odd that Subaro could rarely get their car to work on tar too, Solberg was never as much of a threat.  Maybe for the same reasons, Finns or Scandinavians always doing the work on setup

 

It is why I rate Didier, Carlos and Tommi so very highly. They managed to break that mould a bit.

 

Obviously there were freaks of talent like Colin who could win anywhere in anything!  But for a Spaniard to be able to nearly win in Sweden, be good in UK, Finland and also on tar and for Tommi to win Monte, Sanremo countless times really shows the level those guys were at.


Edited by chunder27, 23 November 2014 - 15:40.


#1321 AlexLangheck

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 17:03

Subaru for the majority of the time used Pirelli tyres; which were nearly always hopeless on the dry Tarmac events. Off the top of my head, I think most of Subaru's Tarmac wins came when it was wet/ damp/ slippy. Thats when the Pirelli tyres shone: Monte 1997 Liatti, Corsica 1997/98 McRae, Corsica 2003 Solberg. I remember Catalunya 1998 and they struggled to get into the top 10.
I also remember when Ford used Pirelli, they to struggled on Tarmac; in 2001 McRae didn't score a single point on the black stuff because of the tyres.

#1322 Myrvold

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 00:41

Yup. That is what I remember from those times as well, Pirelli struggling on dry tarmac, but being very good when it was wet/slippery.

Back in 2006, Prodrive even hired Martin Schanche (Yup, welcome Mr.Rallycross) because their mechanical differential didn't work very good. They seemed to be a bit "we know best" in the last years of the Subaru-years. Their dampers were also sub-par, but they never tried to change them out for another marque, to see if there was any difference. That's something I didn't quite believe until Mads Østberg was 'forced' to run the same dampers as SWRT in 2009 (with the 2008 car). It ended up with Østberg going back to the 2007 car in 2010, because it was better to drive, easier to set up correctly.



#1323 Sheepmachine

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 19:19

Guess who's back, back again, Loeb is back, tell a friend! :clap:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/116924

I look forward to Monte although it's only for one round. Thought he couldn't stay away! Might put a certain S.Ogier in his place. :up:

#1324 BRG

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 19:29

Now there's a bit of good news.



#1325 OvDrone

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 13:15

Mads Ostberg just announced on twitter that he will stay with Citroen for 2015.



#1326 Myrvold

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 22:02

Just spotted this list

 

VW Motorsport:
* Sebastien Ogier
* Jari-Matti Latvala
* Andreas Mikkelsen

Citroen / DS:
* Kris Meeke
* Mads Östberg
# Khalid Al-Qassimi
# Sebastien Loeb

Hyundai Motorsport:
* Thierry Neuville.
* Daniel Sordo.
#

M-Sport:
* Elfyn Evans.
* Ott Tänak.

****matie WRT:
* Lorentzo Bertelli, Ford Fiesta WRC.

 

* = Confirmed
# = Not confirmed how many rallies



#1327 BRG

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 23:20

****matie WRT?  Really?  :lol:

 

I hoped Hyundai might up the ante with a third car after a promising first season.

 

No sign of Kubica? 



#1328 Myrvold

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 02:14

****matie WRT?  Really?  :lol:

 

I hoped Hyundai might up the ante with a third car after a promising first season.

 

No sign of Kubica? 

 

Ye, it's what the WRC-2 team is called as well. It might be something in Italian, but they should've given it a bit more thought :p But then again, being the Prada-son, it might be something related to that as well.

 

Kubica and Protasov are both mentioned in the swedish article of "want to get a programme". While Prokop is seemingly going back to WRC-2.

They also mention that Hayden Paddon is working on a 10+ programme, and is in talks with Citroën, M-Sport and Hyundai. Where Hyundai is most likely, but also a shared car with Al-Qassimi in Citroën seems possible.
 

No mention on the last driver for Hyundai though. Sordo will only do 10 rounds (at least so far). Who knows, maybe Atkinson in the non-Europe rounds.


Edited by Myrvold, 08 December 2014 - 02:16.


#1329 DrProzac

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 18:30

Something interesting for Kubica fans, but maybe not only. An interview with Robert's co driver, Maciek Szczepaniak:



#1330 Muppetmad

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 19:12

An insightful and candid interview. I do hope Robert can find a seat for next year; it would be a shame for his work this year to go to waste. There were some positive moments this year, even if the consistency wasn't there - this is something that will hopefully come with time and experience.



#1331 BRG

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 20:31

Good to see Stig Blomqvist doing demonstration runs in a Audi Quattro Sport at the Race of Champions in Barbados.  Despite being 68, Stig has still got it!  He made that Audi dance; a man who makes Kimi Raikkonen look like blather-mouth, and does all his talking with the steering wheel.

 

But the Audi looks even more silly now than it did in its day.  Group B at its daftest.



#1332 chunder27

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Posted 14 December 2014 - 21:36

Wouldnt necesarily call it silly.

 

But it was certainoly a very German apprach to a totally flawed design concept when everyone else had gone mid engined.



#1333 Muppetmad

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 17:21

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117165

 

Capito is very odd; he shows his own motivations for being against this right at the end of the article in that VW can't do it but Citroen can.



#1334 Myrvold

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 18:56

Doesn't feel like he does anything other than complain.

And then ends with "no one can beat Loeb from the same starting position" and devaluates Ogier even more himself.

#1335 BRG

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 19:15

I hope Loeb does rock up and spoil VW's party.  We need a bit of competition and who better to show the others the way to do it than the best?


Edited by BRG, 16 December 2014 - 19:15.


#1336 AlexLangheck

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 19:45

I don't think he fully understands the WRC. There was a tine when 'specialists' would turn up and get involved in the battle of the overall win. We need to see more of this, it adds something to the sport.

I do have some sympathy with the road orders issues; this has been done to stop Ogier running away with the WRC. I abhor handicapping in a World Championship - it has no place. It's up to the others to up their game - too often Motorsport goes for the easy option of punishing the leader.

#1337 BRG

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 20:37

Running order has been an issue long before Ogier.  He is just the one who whines about it more than anyone before.  Someone has to run first.  Traditionally, you would seed the entry and put last year's winner at #1. And that was seen as an honour by most. Or you could run in championship order, or you draw for it, or whatever way you want - someone will always moan that it is unfair.  On my first ever special stage, we started as #161, and were 2nd fastest because the stage had dried out after the front runners had gone through,  Then car 164 beat us and took fastest time.  Mind you , he went on to finish the rally in 2nd overall and we ended up 6th, so it wasn't completely nonsensical.

 

For a while the WRC started in championship order then re-seeded after day 1 by overall position.   But that led to nonsense on the final stage of day 1 with people trying to fall behind their rivals to get a better running order on day 2.  Which was not good for the sport.  On the whole, I think that championship order is the least bad option.  It doesn't really seem to have disadvantaged Ogier much.  Nor Loeb before him.



#1338 chunder27

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 20:41

To be blunt, why is it at all interesting that a bloke who dominated the sport for nearly a decade comes back and tries to win a rally he must have won countless times anyway? I would ahve thought Dakar or something would be more interesting?

 

I can see why he is doing it off season, home event etc, but for me it would be far more interesting if he was doing it in another car.

 

Bit like Schumacher coming back really, but without the emperors new cloths



#1339 piszkosfred

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 21:03

What this idiot forgets, Loeb won several gravel rallies running 1st on the road on all 3 days. The reason was that the other cars behind him knew how much they have to slow down on the last stage of the day. But he won anyway because he was that good. And unlike this idiot, I'm pretty sure this will be Loeb's only start next year because Monte is a special event where tire choice the most important other than staying on the road. Unless it's dry, speed not the most important factor. Like Bouffier this year.



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#1340 Lord_Shaitan

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 15:52

Not even a single word in autosport rallying page about Kajetanowicz supremation in ERC opener  :rolleyes: ? Come on, wake up!



#1341 Myrvold

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 16:14

Not even a single word in autosport rallying page about Kajetanowicz supremation in ERC opener  :rolleyes: ? Come on, wake up!


I agree, and they have a 'tag' for ERC as well! Not good.

However new year new year my friend, that means a 2015 thread! :)



#1342 Lord_Shaitan

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 17:16

Opsss... Still not fully converted into 2015 season   ;) .

Thx :up: .