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Rallying - 2014 thread


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#751 BRG

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:46

And isn't the unpredictability of the winter weather why they run rally rounds in the winter season? 

Yes indeed!  But it seems that there is a demand for more predictable unpredictability....  ;)



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#752 Myrvold

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:00

people say it should have been in Kiruna or Varmland or January or March.  But if they did move it, there would still be years when conditions were better back at Karlstad.  Winter weather is unpredictable, we just have to live with it - in the UK last winter snow everywhere, this winter no snow at all but massive floods.

Värmland, is the place the rally is now, just to nitpick with local knowledge.
Thing is, there are places you are 'guaranteed' much more snow, and that's just getting some hundred metres higher up, there is tons of places in the area that fits - however, you won't see it, due to FIA regulations, and the promoters of the rally.

Me and a buddy plotted out a route, with 'guaranteed' snow, following the old school rally-style. Starting in Norway, ending in Sweden, then to the opposite way the next year, and so on. 4 days in total. Using both classical stages, and new ones. It is possible, you would just need some out of the box thinking.



#753 BRG

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 21:00

Me and a buddy plotted out a route, with 'guaranteed' snow, following the old school rally-style. 

Guaranteed snow?   I have been a skier for many many years and one thing I know is that snow can never be guaranteed.



#754 Myrvold

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 22:53

Guaranteed snow?   I have been a skier for many many years and one thing I know is that snow can never be guaranteed.

Depends where you are I guess. There have never been a February/March, in the areas we plotted in, without at least 50cm with snow. Today, it's 2m there, and this have been a really really bad winter.



#755 DrProzac

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 20:50

So, 17 years ago Colin McRae won the Rally Safari.  The rally world really misses both Colin and Rally Safari (as it used to be).

 

Also, something for the Polish fans, related to the very same event:

 

Sobiesław Zasada finishing 12th (2nd in Production class), at age 67.


Edited by DrProzac, 03 March 2014 - 20:52.


#756 BRG

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:41

Ah, Zasada!!  He was always one of the rally drivers I admired.  And the reason why I get a bit irritated by Kubica fans pronouncing that Robert is the greatest Polish rally driver.

 

I never understood how Zasada could compete around the world the way he did whilst Poland was still part of the Soviet Empire.  He must have known all the right people, I guess.



#757 thuGG

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:47

And again "Kubica fans pronouncing that Robert is the greatest Polish rally driver", yes we all think he is the greatest Polish rally driver... In fact we all think he is the greatest rally driver of all time, but let's not stop there, we all think he is also the greatest racing driver of all time. 

Oh and some fun facts, did you know that all Kubica fans share the same brain? It's located somewhere in the 5th dimension, that's why all Kubica fans think the same.



#758 Group B

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:55

So, 17 years ago Colin McRae won the Rally Safari.  The rally world really misses both Colin and Rally Safari (as it used to be).

 

:up:



#759 BRG

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 14:20

And again "Kubica fans pronouncing that Robert is the greatest Polish rally driver", yes we all think he is the greatest Polish rally driver... In fact we all think he is the greatest rally driver of all time, but let's not stop there, we all think he is also the greatest racing driver of all time. 

Oh and some fun facts, did you know that all Kubica fans share the same brain? It's located somewhere in the 5th dimension, that's why all Kubica fans think the same.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions.



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#760 DrProzac

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 18:28

thuGG, chill out ;)

 

Recently we had some other, Polish related anniversaries - sad ones, unfortunately. The birthday of Janusz Kulig, death of Marian Bublewicz. Both great polish rally drivers, both still remembered and missed. I was a child when Bublewicz had his accident and had no idea about the sport, but when Kulig died I was already a rally fan. Sad day it was.

 

On a different topic: we often discussed television coverage and it's relation to rallying's future as a sport.

 

Check out this documentary from 2002, last part of it (though it's worth watching from the beginning):

 

12 yeas later, and..

 

(BTW does anyone know the name of the music at the end of the video? The one starting at 1:25:25)


Edited by DrProzac, 04 March 2014 - 18:30.


#761 Sarhan

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 13:19

Ah, Zasada!!  He was always one of the rally drivers I admired.  And the reason why I get a bit irritated by Kubica fans pronouncing that Robert is the greatest Polish rally driver.

 

I never understood how Zasada could compete around the world the way he did whilst Poland was still part of the Soviet Empire.  He must have known all the right people, I guess.

Kubica has achieved the most of all Polish rallyig drivers in history so far, that could be the reason behind what irritates you :-)

Meanwhile you just proved (the bold part) that you're an ignorant in Poland's history, but I'm not irritated at all ;-) cheers



#762 DrProzac

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 19:28

Maybe he meant influence ;)

 

As for Kubica and his achievements, he did finish the highest in a WRC rally. He did won a world championship in WRC2 (though to be honest the competition level wasn't overwhelming, it's more like a junior series) .

But I don't feel like Robert is the most successful Polish rally driver in history. One of them, true. The best - maybe in the future.

 

Also, when Sobiesław Zasada was winning rallies in European Championship, there was no WRC. European Championship was THE championship (wasn't it?). He won it three times in 1966, 1967, 1971 and was vice-champion in 1968, 1969, and 1972.

Of course rallying was different back then.


Edited by DrProzac, 05 March 2014 - 19:29.


#763 Sarhan

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:43

Maybe he meant influence ;)

 

As for Kubica and his achievements, he did finish the highest in a WRC rally. He did won a world championship in WRC2 (though to be honest the competition level wasn't overwhelming, it's more like a junior series) .

But I don't feel like Robert is the most successful Polish rally driver in history. One of them, true. The best - maybe in the future.

 

Also, when Sobiesław Zasada was winning rallies in European Championship, there was no WRC. European Championship was THE championship (wasn't it?). He won it three times in 1966, 1967, 1971 and was vice-champion in 1968, 1969, and 1972.

Of course rallying was different back then.

Im not dismissing mr. Zasada's achievements at all, also I personally don't think Kubica is the greatest Polish rally driver ever - at least not yet.

What I mean is that according to present regulations RK achieved more than any other Polish driver before him, this could be the reason why many die hard fans already say he's the greatest of all time.



#764 thuGG

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:08

Also, when Sobiesław Zasada was winning rallies in European Championship, there was no WRC. European Championship was THE championship (wasn't it?). He won it three times in 1966, 1967, 1971 and was vice-champion in 1968, 1969, and 1972.

Of course rallying was different back then.

 

Holy sh*t! I didn't know much about Zasada, that's awesome! He also won 148 rallies  :eek:



#765 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 18:33

As for Kubica and his achievements, he did finish the highest in a WRC rally.

No, he didn't.

His best result is fifth in Germany last year.

Best result in a World Championship rally remains 1973, Rally of Poland, 3rd place Maciej Stawowiak - Jan Czyżyk.

Some tend to forget this since it was 'only' manufacturers' championship back then.

Of course - abbreviation 'WRC' was not used until mid 1990s.

 

Anyway - I keep my fingers crossed for his future career.



#766 BRG

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 19:57

Kubica has achieved the most of all Polish rallyig drivers in history so far, that could be the reason behind what irritates you :-)

Meanwhile you just proved (the bold part) that you're an ignorant in Poland's history, but I'm not irritated at all ;-) cheers

Well done!!  Two completely incorrect statements in one post!  Go for three next time, you can do it, I know it.  I have confidence in you.


Edited by BRG, 06 March 2014 - 19:57.


#767 DrProzac

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 20:42

GrzegorzChyla, I didn't forget, but as you said it was not a driver's championship. Anyway it's irrelevant TBH,  if people really want to compare, they should look at the whole career. Even though it's hard to compare achievements from the 60s or 70s with  the ones form the 8s and 90s, not to mention current ones.

 

It will be really hard to beat Zasada. With Robert, there's a twist though because he is the most successful Polish racing driver (or is he not? :) )

 

But I think this discussion doesn't have much sense. At least some knowledge about the old Polish champs has been propagated ;)

 

Meanwhile, we have JML and VW in the front on the test stage for Rally Mexico. Will he beat Ogier?


Edited by DrProzac, 06 March 2014 - 20:46.


#768 mikerally

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 21:15

so shakedown for Rally Mexico is done.

1. Jari-Matti Latvala 3min 53.6sec
2. Kris Meeke + 1.1
3. Sebastien Ogier + 2.0
4. Andreas Mikkelsen + 3.5
5. Mads Ostberg + 3.6
6. Mikko Hirvonen + 4.6
7. Thierry Neuville + 6.5
8. Robert Kubica + 7.9
9. Chris Atkinson + 9.2
10. Benito Guerra + 11.4
11. Martin Prokop + 16.9
12. Elfyn Evans + 17.8

 

Who do you guys think will win this? 

Any live stages on BT?



#769 EightGear

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 21:40

Any live stages on BT?


SS4, 16 and 22.

Edited by EightGear, 06 March 2014 - 21:41.


#770 FrAnC1s96

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 22:22

TBH i think its going to be a VW walkover again, probably Ogier the winner, hopefully he makes a mistake again  ;)

Hoping for another podium for Meeke, looking like he could do it pace wise.



#771 DracoN

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:46

S1 

 

1. Ogier,

2. Tänak +0,3, WRC2  :rotfl: 

3. Mikkelsen +0,4,

4. Meeke +0,6, 

5. Latvala +0,8,

6. Neuville +1,1.



#772 Sarhan

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 08:33

Well done!! Two completely incorrect statements in one post! Go for three next time, you can do it, I know it. I have confidence in you.


I wont even ask what they are, Im still shocked after you told me I was living in the Soviet Union for so many decades believing Poland was a separate country :-D

#773 Gemini

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 09:19

I wont even ask what they are, Im still shocked after you told me I was living in the Soviet Union for so many decades believing Poland was a separate country

Can I take you from that state of shock?

 

BRG wrote 'Soviet Empire'*. Read with a little more understanding and you save yourself from many shocks in life... :wave:

 

*

http://en.wikipedia....iet_imperialism

 

I never understood how Zasada could compete around the world the way he did whilst Poland was still part of the Soviet Empire.  He must have known all the right people, I guess.


Edited by Gemini, 07 March 2014 - 09:19.


#774 MadYarpen

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:44

this thread gets really painfull to read...



#775 Anja

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 11:24

How on earth Tanak managed to be 2nd in WRC2 car? I know it was a short stage, but still... :clap:



#776 Sarhan

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 11:36

Can I take you from that state of shock?

 

BRG wrote 'Soviet Empire'*. Read with a little more understanding and you save yourself from many shocks in life... :wave:

 

*

http://en.wikipedia....iet_imperialism

Thank you very much. My understanding in reading isn't based on Wikipedia, so maybe here lays the reason behind my ignorance. I thought we post here in a lighthearted manner, therefore no need to be dead serious, but it seems the other way :-) anyway, I'm outta this forum for good so no more painful reading of my posts. Cheers guys :-)



#777 mikerally

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 15:25

the live splits are working like sh!t again...stupid spanish timing provider...



#778 Anja

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 15:31

Hyundai doesn't look to be very competitive - Neuville only 10th on SS2 and he basically said that was all he could do.



#779 MadYarpen

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 15:33

the live splits are working like sh!t again...stupid spanish timing provider...

How is it possible after more than a year with this provider is beyond me.



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#780 mikerally

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 15:42

How is it possible after more than a year with this provider is beyond me.

i have no idea but they should bring back the guys who did this before...they never had a single problem...with the firm that is providing the live timing now, they've had more problems in the past year than they had in 10 years with the previous provider.



#781 FrAnC1s96

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 17:07

Ostberg looking very competitive in the Citroen :up: , the Hyundais not looking promising, Evans and Hirvonen looking good in the M-Sport Fords.



#782 OvDrone

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 18:13

*so damn quietly confident for my main dude, Ostberg and dudes, Citroen* :D

 

Still early days though and Ogier will attack again and again.



#783 Gemini

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 19:47

OT on:

 I'm outta this forum for good so no more painful reading of my posts. Cheers guys :-)

 

Come on, Sarhan. Don't leave over my lack of sense of humour :-)

Did not mean to be offensive.

 

OT off



#784 mikerally

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 21:21

damn timing...no splits...it makes wrc really hard to follow...i don't understand how the FIA and the promoter of the WRC allow this to happen..

Good job from Ostberg...

The live stage was really nice and fast. 

 

 

EDIT: Meeke stopped on SS8 with suspension damage...went into a corner too fast apparently.


Edited by mikerally, 07 March 2014 - 22:21.


#785 OvDrone

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 00:03

So... my recap:

 

Ogier, Ostberg doing the proper job.

Latvala fine as well, shame that he had to open the way for the others.

Real shame for Mikko. Bad luck man, he was biting at Ostberg's heels.

Kris seemed a bit all over, but I guess that's learning.

And now Kubica is on his roof at the evening SSs... Don't know what to say...

Neuville seems to inch his way into getting to grips with the new car.

 

Looking forward for tomorrow as well.



#786 mikerally

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 00:57

How did Kubica manage to put his car on the roof again? OK I understand it on the SS but putting your car on the roof in the SSS is beyond my understanding. Is there any rally in his last 4 outings where he managed to keep the car on the road? The 3 offs in Sweden count as he lost major time...

 

Meeke started pushing and well luck wasn't on his side...this things happen on this kind of rallies.

 

Hirvonen might get the prize for the unluckiest driver in the world. 

 

Ostberg shows promise after this 3 rallies up to this point but let's wait and see...he seems to like mexico a lot.

 

Ogier being really fast but let's see tomorrow when he will have to clean the road...Latvala will be faster tomorrow as he won't have to clean the road anymore. 

 

Evans goes pretty well considering he is still there at the end of the day and his wheels not his roof are on the ground. 

 

Neuville is finally getting accustomed to the Hyundai and I must say I think they will be more than decent by the end of the season considering the limited testing they have done compared to VW when they rolled out their car. 

 

The worst thing about this rally is the timing.

 

I must say the stages look nice and I like that some of them are very long. the longest stage is 55km i think and they have another 3 stages that are long.



#787 DrProzac

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 01:49

Damn.



#788 Myrvold

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 04:38

Seems like drivers get's nominal times on the last two stages, which would mean Kubica is still 9th. Kinda ridiculous really, no reg. Kubica, but how it's a smaller penalty to crash out on a SuperSpecial than a normal stage. 

 

Note:Basing it on the WRC site.



#789 InfectedPumpkin

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 07:55

Robert "The Crash" Kubica  :clap:

Nah, I am just kidding, we all know he is doing it on purpose and for ze lulz  :rotfl:



#790 Markko

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 08:41

Robert crash. Atkinson crashed at the same place. Probably oil.

 

 

 

I want to add that people who criticize Robert because of crashes know nothing about rallying. Stay with F1, please.


Edited by Markko, 08 March 2014 - 08:49.


#791 mikerally

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:50

Robert crash. Atkinson crashed at the same place. Probably oil.

 

 

 

I want to add that people who criticize Robert because of crashes know nothing about rallying. Stay with F1, please.

that isn't true...no one would criticise him if he wouldn't crash in every rally.  do you see any other driver binning it constantly?



#792 Muppetmad

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:57

that isn't true...no one would criticise him if he wouldn't crash in every rally.  do you see any other driver binning it constantly?

This is the third rally of the season - hardly enough of a sample to come to such a judgement.



#793 mikerally

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:03

Seems like drivers get's nominal times on the last two stages, which would mean Kubica is still 9th. Kinda ridiculous really, no reg. Kubica, but how it's a smaller penalty to crash out on a SuperSpecial than a normal stage. 

 

Note:Basing it on the WRC site.

i know, it's a stupid rule...if anything it should cost more...because rarely someone crashes on the superspecial...



#794 mikerally

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:09

This is the third rally of the season - hardly enough of a sample to come to such a judgement.

4 WRC events in a WRC car and it's now 3 times he put the car on the roof(twice rally GB, once here) 1 time he crashed a car beyond repair(Monte) and 3 snowbanks(that cost him 30 minutes or so in Sweden) I think it says a lot about his capacities to crash. 

I think he is a genuinely fast driver and I like Robert, he provides a good show and attracts attention to the WRC and that with time he will get better, but he needs to stop crashing his car every time he goes out because he will not progress otherwise. 

 

Anything can happen on this one with the attrition rate we have currently. I mean for all I care Meeke, Mikkelsen and Hirvonen could get as high as 5th or 6th.



#795 Muppetmad

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:29

4 WRC events in a WRC car and it's now 3 times he put the car on the roof(twice rally GB, once here) 1 time he crashed a car beyond repair(Monte) and 3 snowbanks(that cost him 30 minutes or so in Sweden) I think it says a lot about his capacities to crash.

I won't say that the start to his season has been perfectly normal or desirable, but it is part of the learning process. If you cast your mind back to last year, Robert had a difficult start to his year in the early ERC and WRC2 rallies - but he got his act together quickly and then strung together a long chain of top results to win the WRC2 title. Of course, I'm not saying he's going to do the same here, but I think we will see some more consistent results as time progresses.



#796 Shiroo

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:33

You biased people. He crashed in every rally so far in WRC, he crashed often in WRC2 and now people ask to "do not judge him yet". There were plenty of drivers that didn't bin it each rally in their first season in WRC.

And yet, all his crashes were his fault.

He is fast, but he is Grosjean 2012 in WRC. Sad but true, so peps, enough with defending him, he needs to get a hold of himself, slow down or start use a brain instead pushing 100% all the time. 


Edited by Shiroo, 08 March 2014 - 10:33.


#797 artista

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 10:46

that isn't true...no one would criticise him if he wouldn't crash in every rally. do you see any other driver binning it constantly?


Neuville, Ogier and Latvala (some time ago, not any longer, even if I keep having Latvala and Neuville under surveillance, just in case) come easily to my mind.

That said, I do think Kubica's crashing statistics seem to be a bit bad.

#798 Muppetmad

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:01

You biased people. He crashed in every rally so far in WRC, he crashed often in WRC2 and now people ask to "do not judge him yet". There were plenty of drivers that didn't bin it each rally in their first season in WRC.

And yet, all his crashes were his fault.

He is fast, but he is Grosjean 2012 in WRC. Sad but true, so peps, enough with defending him, he needs to get a hold of himself, slow down or start use a brain instead pushing 100% all the time. 

I'm not going to get into a long debate about this, because in my mind it's a fruitless exercise: I've made my point and time will tell if my judgement is correct. I am of the opinion he will improve as the season progresses (as he did last year) and will string together some consistent results; if I'm wrong, I invite everyone to quote this post at the end of the season and mock me as much as you like.



#799 sergeym

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:16

Robert crash. Atkinson crashed at the same place. Probably oil.

 

 

 

I want to add that people who criticize Robert because of crashes know nothing about rallying. Stay with F1, please.

 

I think people are criticizing him so much because of all the hype that surrounds Kubica. Nothing unusual about his crashes, and Kubica himself has never claimed to be special in any way. But he gets a lot more attention that other drivers of the same experience - so every his success and failure is getting exaggerated.



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#800 Zoetrope

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:20

Don't know where the frustration comes from. He is being paid by sponsors, he has support of his own team, he doesn't even work for manufacturer's constructors points. There is no obligation for him to drive extremely cautious and finish every rally. He knows himself best and knows what is best for him. He is very harsh on himself in the interviews and this shows the dedication to the sport and huge will to improve. He is one of the greatest professionals in the whole motorsport and he knows what to do to develop as a driver. Even if it includes crashing. He surely isn't a madman driving on the limit all the time as some people think, he did admit to backing off a couple of times, but most of the time he just drives his own pace, not too slow not too fast. He just makes mistakes. You can attribute it to him being a rookie or just not being talented enough. Doesn't matter which one is closer to the truth, he will get better over time. Anyway, I love following his career in rallying even when he crashes all the time. Kubica is just magic. I admire him as a sportsman and human being and will continue to cherish his every little success even if someone claims there is nothing extraordinary about him  :clap: