Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 3 votes

Rallying - 2014 thread


  • Please log in to reply
1145 replies to this topic

#801 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 501 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:31

I think people are criticizing him so much because of all the hype that surrounds Kubica. Nothing unusual about his crashes, and Kubica himself has never claimed to be special in any way. But he gets a lot more attention that other drivers of the same experience - so every his success and failure is getting exaggerated.

 

Yeah, but at the same time a lot of his fans is constantly writing off these crashes as meaningless. I really wanted to believe that too but it's getting a bit too far for me.



Advertisement

#802 mikerally

mikerally
  • Member

  • 84 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:51

Neuville, Ogier and Latvala (some time ago, not any longer, even if I keep having Latvala and Neuville under surveillance, just in case) come easily to my mind.

That said, I do think Kubica's crashing statistics seem to be a bit bad.

yeah but Ogier crashes once in every few rallies and then he literally flies on the stages under rally2. He isn't a World Champion for no reason so we can write him off from this group.

 

Neuville showed last year that he is a guy that has the skills and the speed needed to become a WRC. This year, I suspect it won't be as good a season as the last one but he has a new car with limited testing and the pressure to succeed is pretty big.

 

Latvala crashes from time to time, that's true but just look for how long he has been in the game and you will see that while this things happen they don't happen as often. 

 

You could add Meeke to the list but apart from the mistake he did here yesterday, has been flawless this season at least. 

 

 

I'm not going to get into a long debate about this, because in my mind it's a fruitless exercise: I've made my point and time will tell if my judgement is correct. I am of the opinion he will improve as the season progresses (as he did last year) and will string together some consistent results; if I'm wrong, I invite everyone to quote this post at the end of the season and mock me as much as you like.

 

I think once he will get to the rallies he knows, he will get better. Same goes for Mikkelsen, Meeke and Evans. 

 

 

Really long stages today. I think they have about 170km of special stages in total the longest being 53 km in length so anything can happen, even the guys we wrote off yesterday could come back with a bit of luck. 



#803 artista

artista
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,205 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:38

I was obviously talking about Ogier, Neuville and Latvala in the past.
It's biased if you pretend to make comparisons between drivers with different levels of experience.

#804 Option1

Option1
  • Member

  • 13,142 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 08 March 2014 - 13:03

I luvvvv how the Robert fans who've apparently judged him the greatest driver of this or any other time in history are so upset if he gets judged otherwise by those who live in this part of the time and space continuum that we like to call "reality". 

The problem isn't with Mr Kubica (although he does need to stop crashing so frequently and finish a few rallies), but as usual with a significant proportion of blindly (and mostly nationalistic) fans.

 

Anyway, on with the rally.  And yet again it's just f***ing ludicrous that we can't get proper coverage of this or any of the WRC rallies.  The WRC needs to pull its head out of it's gianormous arse and pay for coverage if it can't sell any.  :mad:

 

Neil


Edited by Option1, 08 March 2014 - 13:06.


#805 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 2,435 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 08 March 2014 - 13:59

Sigh. It feels like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall here sometimes. All I'll say is that if one chooses to read my posts for what they are - my own personal judgements, not anybody else's - then I think you'll find them to be fair. You may not agree with them, but they are fair nonetheless. I won't break out into a spiel on how unnecessary it is to create this atmosphere of "us against them" every time a "Kubica fan" airs an opinion remotely in his favour, because it has been said frequently here already. I stand by my judgements and accept I'll be called out at the end of the year if I prove to be incorrect. Personally, I don't think suggesting Robert should be given some time in a sport heavily dependent on experience is saying anything all that controversial.

 

Anyway, I look forward to another good day of rallying today - some long stages today will doubtless shake up the order a bit.



#806 jcbc3

jcbc3
  • Member

  • 5,092 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 08 March 2014 - 14:48

OK, Muppethead (seems like an insult when I write it, but since that's your choice of nick I have no option  ;) )

 

Many here, myself included, believes that Kubica is hurting his own credibility as a top line rally driver when he isn't capable to finish any rally without a major crash. You beg to differ.

Could you tell us where your personal limit is for Kubica's crashes? Referring to your above post could you say at how many crashes or rallies you will come round to our point of view?



#807 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 08 March 2014 - 14:57

Kubica about his crash:

 

It was a good day with a very unfortunate ending. It started with a little mess before the start of a Super Special. At first Martin Prokop was waiting alongside Thierry Neuville, but then they decided that I should race against Thierry. With such a quick change I had no time to concentrate before a start. At the very first braking point it was very slippery. I tried to save the car, but we hit a concrete block that rolled the car over. We had a broken windscreen and broken rear suspension, but the car was still able to ride. Unfortunately Super Special regulations are different to the normal stage regulations and we were not allowed to do a second run. That is why we must use rally 2 for the next day. 
Robert

 

The car is fixed, it had problems with the gearshift paddle which is supposed to be fixed as well.

 

You biased people. He crashed in every rally so far in WRC, he crashed often in WRC2 and now people ask to "do not judge him yet". There were plenty of drivers that didn't bin it each rally in their first season in WRC.

He didnt' crash often in WRC2 (??), and most drivers starting in WRC had many seasons of rallying experience (regional included).

 
I think it would be more reasonable if all people (both fans and not fans) just treated him as someone with his level of rally experience should be. Proper perspective, less emotions, less jumping to conclusions (both ways!). I think that before committing to rallying Kubica said that he will need many season. He is there to learn the hard way, it looks like :)
 
Latvala crashed out from the second place during the SSS - the last stage - in Rally Poland 2009, it was much more embarrassing (and painful points vise), it happens. This doesn't mean that Kubica's crash was meaningless or unavoidable, but what all the commotion about? Seriously.
 
When Kubica won the opening stages in Rally Monte Carlo it was a reason to praise him. I think it should be obvious why. When he maintained good pace in difficult conditions, he deserved a nod of appreciation. When he crashed out due to a rookie mistake, he deserved a bit of bashing. But only a bit, because he is a rookie who was exceeding the expectations before the crash. I think the very good start in that rally distorted the proper, objective perspective. And that this perspective is distorted due to the fact that he is a former F1 driver, which makes his driving a talking point.
 
Now it seems to me that the people here are polarized and rather biased in their opinions. No offense, but some of you criticize Kubica for making mistakes like if he was a title contender with many years of rallying experience. He is not. Some feel the need to defend him as if it was really needed. One group's actions fuel the other.


#808 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 2,435 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:02

OK, Muppethead (seems like an insult when I write it, but since that's your choice of nick I have no option  ;) )

 

Many here, myself included, believes that Kubica is hurting his own credibility as a top line rally driver when he isn't capable to finish any rally without a major crash. You beg to differ.

Could you tell us where your personal limit is for Kubica's crashes? Referring to your above post could you say at how many crashes or rallies you will come round to our point of view?

Haha, don't worry about it  ;) The first rally of the year in which he has experience is Portugal, the next rally. After that, the next rally he has experience in is Finland. So, that's two rallies where he should be able to finish. If he isn't finishing rallies consistently and without major error by Finland, then I will admit my error in judgement. Feel free to hold me to that.



#809 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:04

 

Kubica about his crash:

 

It was a good day with a very unfortunate ending. It started with a little mess before the start of a Super Special. At first Martin Prokop was waiting alongside Thierry Neuville, but then they decided that I should race against Thierry. With such a quick change I had no time to concentrate before a start. At the very first braking point it was very slippery. I tried to save the car, but we hit a concrete block that rolled the car over. We had a broken windscreen and broken rear suspension, but the car was still able to ride. Unfortunately Super Special regulations are different to the normal stage regulations and we were not allowed to do a second run. That is why we must use rally 2 for the next day. 
Robert

 

The car is fixed, it had problems with the gearshift paddle which is supposed to be fixed as well.

 

He didnt' crash often in WRC2 (??), and most drivers starting in WRC had many seasons of rallying experience (regional included).

 
I think it would be more reasonable if all people (both fans and not fans) just treated him as someone with his level of rally experience should be. Proper perspective, less emotions, less jumping to conclusions (both ways!). I think that before committing to rallying Kubica said that he will need many season. He is there to learn the hard way, it looks like :)
 
Latvala crashed out from the second place during the SSS - the last stage - in Rally Poland 2009, it was much more embarrassing (and painful points vise), it happens. This doesn't mean that Kubica's crash was meaningless or unavoidable, but what all the commotion about? Seriously.
 
When Kubica won the opening stages in Rally Monte Carlo it was a reason to praise him. I think it should be obvious why. When he maintained good pace in difficult conditions, he deserved a nod of appreciation. When he crashed out due to a rookie mistake, he deserved a bit of bashing. But only a bit, because he is a rookie who was exceeding the expectations before the crash. I think the very good start in that rally distorted the proper, objective perspective. And that this perspective is distorted due to the fact that he is a former F1 driver, which makes his driving a talking point.
 
Now it seems to me that the people here are polarized and rather biased in their opinions. No offense, but some of you criticize Kubica for making mistakes like if he was a title contender with many years of rallying experience. He is not. Some feel the need to defend him as if it was really needed. One group's actions fuel the other.

 

 

But don't you think that he crashes REALLY often, be that in ERC, some regional rallies or WRC now?

I mean for god's sake, he almost died once because of rally. And now it does look like he didn't take any lesson from that, and he is once again going 100% all the time. To win, you first need to finish, while Kubica often don't give a shit. I respect the guy, seriously he has brilliant character as a person that never gives up, but for god's sake, he start to use a brain more often after that accident. It cost him F1 career that he will never be able to continue though he was promising (I still say that he should rally while being F1 driver but it was his decision), he almost lost his hand and he still crashes a lot. Maybe most of these are some minor crashes, but if he won't fix that 100% WHOLE TIME attitude, he might have once again accident, which might not end as good as that one in 2011.

 

He is quick, but what's the point of being quick if a lot of his races were compromised by crashes?



#810 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:31

He crashes rather often, but it's not mind-blowingly often as far as rallying is concerned. I'm not saying that he does not do it often (expect WRC2 in which he was consistent). And I don't really want to get involved in this argument that is going one here ;) I'm just pointing out that imho people aren't taking into account his lack of rallying experience. It is much more difficult to deal with it in WRC than in regional rallies, for example.  It may or may not account for most of his crashes, but it sure changes the general picture a lot.

 

Don't forget that even debutantes in WRC usually did a lot of "lower level" rallying before becoming a world championship rookie. Kubica won the wRC2 championship, but it was only a few rallies. For example Rally Sweden was a first snow rally for him, I don't get why people got so excited that he crashed there a lot. Did they really expect him not to visit the snowbanks a few times? Even more experienced guys did.

 

I'd expect Robert to crash less, he was always a really consistent racing driver. But I also try to remain calm about all this. And I think that while his racing background may help on tarmac, it makes things harder on other surfaces. Any judgment should really wait until the season end imho. He has nice pace (really good on tarmac, not so good on show but not tragic), he needs to avoid mistakes.

 

Also note, that none of his crashes was a really high speed one.

 

In the end, a rally driver, rookie, crashes in a stage. From 6th place, not from the lead or something like that. And we get a two page discussion about it. Isn't this a bit ridiculous? And no, it's not only Kubica's fans fault.

 

In the WRC2 championship Kubica has the most wins of all drivers: five. From seven rallies he started, he got five wins, one second place, and one sixth. He definitely wasn't a crasher in it.


Edited by DrProzac, 08 March 2014 - 15:32.


#811 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 2,435 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:34

I love WRC radio - it makes me laugh so hard. The commentators have a wonderful sense of humour, they do a brilliant job.


Edited by Muppetmad, 08 March 2014 - 15:34.


#812 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,044 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:40

 Maybe most of these are some minor crashes, but if he won't fix that 100% WHOLE TIME attitude,

How can you be sure he is pushing over the limit all the time? Perhaps his mistakes have totally different reasons - lack of talent, experience or something else. He knows best himself how to learn and improve, so demanding another approach to driving is pointless in my opinion. If he isn't suited for WRC, no team will offer him a seat. Simple. Now, let's enjoy another day of Mexico!



#813 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 501 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:42

I love WRC radio - it makes me laugh so hard. The commentators have a wonderful sense of humour, they do a brilliant job.

 

I agree, at least that one part of WRC coverage is really good.



#814 Wander

Wander
  • Member

  • 2,273 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:44

He crashes rather often, but it's not mind-blowingly often as far as rallying is concerned. I'm not saying that he does not do it often (expect WRC2 in which he was consistent). And I don't really want to get involved in this argument that is going one here ;) I'm just pointing out that imho people aren't taking into account his lack of rallying experience. It is much more difficult to deal with it in WRC than in regional rallies, for example.  It may or may not account for most of his crashes, but it sure changes the general picture a lot.
 
Don't forget that even debutantes in WRC usually did a lot of "lower level" rallying before becoming a world championship rookie. Kubica won the wRC2 championship, but it was only a few rallies. For example Rally Sweden was a first snow rally for him, I don't get why people got so excited that he crashed there a lot. Did they really expect him not to visit the snowbanks a few times? Even more experienced guys did.
 
I'd expect Robert to crash less, he was always a really consistent racing driver. But I also try to remain calm about all this. And I think that while his racing background may help on tarmac, it makes things harder on other surfaces. Any judgment should really wait until the season end imho. He has nice pace (really good on tarmac, not so good on show but not tragic), he needs to avoid mistakes.
 
Also note, that none of his crashes was a really high speed one.
 
In the end, a rally driver, rookie, crashes in a stage. From 6th place, not from the lead or something like that. And we get a two page discussion about it. Isn't this a bit ridiculous? And no, it's not only Kubica's fans fault.
 
In the WRC2 championship Kubica has the most wins of all drivers: five. From seven rallies he started, he got five wins, one second place, and one sixth. He definitely wasn't a crasher in it.


Exceptional talents have exceptional expectations placed on them. People are waiting for him to deliver more and sooner than your average rally debundant for a reason.

#815 x600

x600
  • Member

  • 87 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:57

The problem isn't with Mr Kubica (although he does need to stop crashing so frequently and finish a few rallies), but as usual with a significant proportion of blindly (and mostly nationalistic) fans.

 

You nailed it. I'm also sure some people are beginnig to dislike this driver because of the reaction of his "followers".



#816 mikerally

mikerally
  • Member

  • 84 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 08 March 2014 - 16:07

again no splits for ogier...how is it that after 1 season of problems they didn't fix the problems.



#817 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,518 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 08 March 2014 - 16:13

Latvala Meeke and co crashed a hell of a lot in his early days (and still do!) but I don't recall anyone ever managing 4 consecutive WRC events with a shunt. I'm starting to lose faith in Kubica myself too, tbh. Pace is there but rallying is much more than pace.



#818 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 2,435 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 08 March 2014 - 17:36

Right, I'll be shutting up for now  ;)



#819 mikerally

mikerally
  • Member

  • 84 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 08 March 2014 - 17:37

Mikkelsen rolled after cutting a corner.

 

Robert "The Roll" Kubica ended roof down...again...so that's twice in 2 days. 

 

EDIT: Ostberg out. Failed to make it to the start of the stage. He failed the 30 min buffer they are allowed.


Edited by mikerally, 08 March 2014 - 17:43.


Advertisement

#820 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 08 March 2014 - 18:23

Can't wait for the Kubica crash discussion :)

 

Exceptional talents have exceptional expectations placed on them. People are waiting for him to deliver more and sooner than your average rally debundant for a reason.

True, I know. But I wish all this was more laid back :)



#821 OvDrone

OvDrone
  • Member

  • 1,892 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 08 March 2014 - 18:27

Ostberg ... :cry:

 

wow. much dnfs. such gutted. so Mads. Hyundai podium wow.



#822 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 08 March 2014 - 19:55

Kubica once again on the roof. he is pretty exceptional in crashing so far this season.

 

votlxt.jpg


Edited by Shiroo, 08 March 2014 - 19:59.


#823 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 1,425 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 08 March 2014 - 21:06

I am a Kubica fan, but damn he needs to keep it clean or his WRC career won't last.


Edited by MikeV1987, 08 March 2014 - 21:06.


#824 InfectedPumpkin

InfectedPumpkin
  • Member

  • 535 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:48

"The Crash" rolled again?  :eek:

That is not funny anymore. Please stop.

 

I am not in rallying, but being fast isn't enough. You have to end rally first.



#825 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,044 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:06

I am obviously biased because I am here only for Kubica (I could be called a fanboy) and at the same time properly uninformed because I had no clue about rallying prior to his debut, but I spent a few minutes on the internet to do this research.

Kubica's experience:
2009 - 4 entries (all asphalt)
2010 - 5 entries (all asphalt)
2011 - 1 entry (F1 career ending crash)
2012 - 3 entries (all asphalt)
2013 - WRC2 campaign and occasional ERC/regional rallies entries

Other WRC freshmans experience:

Meeke - rallying since 2000
Mikkelsen - rallying since 2006
Evans - rallying since 2007
Neuville - rallying since 2008
No idea how many rallies each did per year, but it almost certainly were full seasons (or at least very busy seasons) in some lower tier/national categories.

“Robert acknowledges his mind was totally different when he was racing and he has said he needs to start to look at the big picture in rallying. He said ‘I drive everything like a race and I need to get to understand the concept of the WRC’ ” added Wilson.
Being used to racing approach while everyone else has rallying approach in their blood makes a difference too. And yes, I am trying to overly excuse his mistakes. But I am fine with it, I am not even trying to be impartial. As I said before I am here only for Bobby, you have to bear with me  :)



#826 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:14

There is no excuse for so many crashes. Especialy for stupid ones, like the one on superspecial or juping with turned wheels in sweden.



#827 Wander

Wander
  • Member

  • 2,273 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:21

I am obviously biased because I am here only for Kubica (I could be called a fanboy) and at the same time properly uninformed because I had no clue about rallying prior to his debut, but I spent a few minutes on the internet to do this research.

Kubica's experience:
2009 - 4 entries (all asphalt)
2010 - 5 entries (all asphalt)
2011 - 1 entry (F1 career ending crash)
2012 - 3 entries (all asphalt)
2013 - WRC2 campaign and occasional ERC/regional rallies entries

 

Do you have a statistic for how many of those rallies he crashed in?  :lol:



#828 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:38

@up: check yourself ;)

http://www.ewrc-resu...t=Robert-Kubica

 

I don't have any statistics but in his in 2009 and 2010 he either crashed, had mechanical failures or won (in class, and often was very high in general). He won more often than crashed ( 2009 was mostly problems, 2010 almost exclusively winning).

 

in 2012 he had three wins and two accidents.

 

In ERC he had one win, one 6th, one mechanical failure and two crashes (well, the Rally Poland one wasn't really a crash).

 

In WRC2 he has the most wins of all drivers: five. From seven rallies he started, he got five wins, one second place, and one sixth. He definitely wasn't a crasher in it.

 

For me it looks like it became bad when he switched to WRC.. ERC wasn't that bad. The interesting thin is that most of his crashes are rather low speed ones.

 

If you like statistics, you could do a crash comparison between WRC drivers:

- in their rookie year

- when they had as much experience as Kubica.

 

I definitely won't bother :D


Edited by DrProzac, 09 March 2014 - 11:59.


#829 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,044 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:49

Do you have a statistic for how many of those rallies he crashed in?  :lol:

All based on wikipedia, can't vouch for credibility.

2009 - 1/4
2010 - 0/5
2011 - 1/1
2012 - 1/3
2013 - 4/16
2014 - 3/4

Of course sometimes he did crash 2 times in the same rally, but that is classification of how many times his mistakes forced him to retire.

Edit: DrProzac, nice source.


Edited by Zoetrope, 09 March 2014 - 10:50.


#830 Wingcommander

Wingcommander
  • Member

  • 684 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 09 March 2014 - 20:05

Neuville:

https://pbs.twimg.co...A6hCU.jpg:large

 

That's beer. :rotfl:



#831 OvDrone

OvDrone
  • Member

  • 1,892 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 09 March 2014 - 20:35

Neuville:

https://pbs.twimg.co...A6hCU.jpg:large

 

That's beer. :rotfl:

 

DIY right there.



#832 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,519 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 09 March 2014 - 20:52

Neuville:

https://pbs.twimg.co...A6hCU.jpg:large

 

That's beer. :rotfl:

Well, he is Belgian.  What else would he use?  Maybe the mayo off his frites...



#833 charly0418

charly0418
  • Member

  • 1,203 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 09 March 2014 - 20:58

That beer moment was pretty insane.

 

Also big result for PWRC mexican champion Benito Guerra for hist best finish ever in WRC. :clap:



#834 mikerally

mikerally
  • Member

  • 84 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 09 March 2014 - 21:13

so another rally is over.

 

Ogier: Drove a really good rally

Latvala: He never had a chance to win it since he cleaned the road on the first day

Mikkelsen: 2 mistakes but first time in Mexico. I just think that he was caught out in the first day and then he pushed like hell and did the bigger mistake which resulted in rolling over the car.

 

Neuville: Drove smart, didn't make any mistake and he got the first podium for Hyundai. Hopefully they will build on it.

Atkinson: Did good for his first WRC event in some time.

 

Evans: First time here, no mistakes. he got the experience and that's really good for him.

Hirvonen: Mr. Bad Luck. I think he did really well but his car let him down...unfortunate for Mikko.

Kubica: He can't expect to get experience by crashing in each rally he starts. He won't be able to progress and achieve anything without experience and in order to get experience, he needs to start finishing rallies. 

 

Meeke: The broken suspension on day Friday was his fault. What happened on the Power Stage...well I think anyone who would've been in the same situation (first car on the road), would've had the same problem. 

Ostberg: He had a good rally up to the point when he damaged the suspension on his car. That was unfortunate. 



#835 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 09 March 2014 - 21:13

Of course sometimes he did crash 2 times in the same rally, but that is classification of how many times his mistakes forced him to retire.

Ye, but, each crash that force to use rally2, is a retirement crash.



#836 thuGG

thuGG
  • Member

  • 1,524 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:16

You biased people. He crashed in every rally so far in WRC, he crashed often in WRC2 and now people ask to "do not judge him yet". There were plenty of drivers that didn't bin it each rally in their first season in WRC.

And yet, all his crashes were his fault.

He is fast, but he is Grosjean 2012 in WRC. Sad but true, so peps, enough with defending him, he needs to get a hold of himself, slow down or start use a brain instead pushing 100% all the time. 

 

Actually he finished every WRC2 rally.

But yeah, he crashes way too often. Still I'll wait till the end of the season. And also I'll wait for the rallies he already had driven.

Doesn't look good for now, the pace is there (for a rookie), but please stop crashing, then the results will come. 



#837 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,044 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 12 March 2014 - 10:06

Kubica's native fanboys strike again. Here is a translation from Kubica's interview for Przeglad Sportowy.

Cezary Gutowski: You are a driver that always deeply analyse your own situation, do you have any idea how to fix current problems?
Robert Kubica: It's hard to call it a problem. For outside observer, it might look like a huge one, but there are simply things, that you cannot easily overcome. I can try harder and harder, but it won't fix it. I believe that, like in every other sport, when you are newcomer you have to pay for your inexperience. In rallies the cost is extremely big. And I am not even talking about budget - let's clarify, rallies are dangerous sport. If I were a badminton player and started to play tennis, I would send the ball outside the court a couple of times, but would still remain in the match. It's a bit different in rallies.

 

CG: So what's your goal in rallies?
RK: Definitely, I would like to be more efficient. Besides, I reckon that when I used to have proper experience, as it was in Formula One, I was a very efficient driver and rarely did mistakes. That's what makes me believe that experience is crucial here, the experience that I don't have. This is my second season in rallies, to be honest, and I am competing with the top guys. It's elevating, that I am able not to lose massive ammount of time to them. Even on the surface I had my first drive only 11 months ago. I think time is all I need, every fruit needs time to be ripe.

CG: What would be the biggest issue for you now?
RK: There are very few things from experience in rally A that I could exploit in rally B. Mexico was a totally new thing for me. Surface, characteristics of the stage. Alright, Portugal is similar at times, surface at Sardinia is similar. However the constant changes in traction, like on Saturday in Mexico? There were like seven different surfaces and every was new to me. And that's not easy.


CG: And there is nothing you can do about it during testing?
RK: Testing doesn't help me too much, because I am driving on my own and with my own racing line. After a few rounds, I know the road much better and that's when I beginning to see how easier and safer my driving is. I think that during testing I drive way more aggressively, and much faster than in actual rallies. And I have never crashed during testing (except for Rally Poland where I rolled after my mistake while landing a jump). But in fact, I never had any moments in testing and I am driving much faster and at much higher risk level. I simply know the road, and it becomes like track racing. Therefore, I believe if I had experience and came to rallies for the third or fourth time, it would be much easier. I could be more efficient and drive even faster. It's not only about speed, but also about knowledge what will next corner bring, what traction one could await and how does the SS unfold.

CG: Returning to your comparison - badminton and tennis - so it looks like you were in your second season in tennis and were playing in Grand Chelem. 
RK: And how many driver are there in Grand Chelem? Erm, I mean the competitors.

CG: 128
RK: Well, then no. I would say I reach the quater finals of the Grand Chelem.

CG: Do you think you came to the highest level of competition a bit too early?
RK: It all depends how you look at it. Majority of drivers, who for instance did start in S2000 or 4WD, say that when you sit behind a WRC car, it's a totally different story. There are a few guys that were exceptional in S2000, but need some time to adapt in WRC. And these are not the drivers that came from track racing, but they have already been in rallies for 6-7 years. That's why I believe I did the right thing to drive in WRC. The same mistakes could happen while driving a lower category car. Of course the velocity is slower, however not that much, but in fact I could make the same mistakes.

CG: But now you are being compared with world rally champion and other top drivers. Perhaps you should have stayed in lower tier?
RK: Some might think, that when I compete with the best in the world, I am trying to beat them. I am not, that would be stupid. It's like saying that we are handing a Formula One car to a top rally driver. He is allowed to do some laps on a bicycle or a road car. And then we measure his lap time. Not after 100 laps. The very first lap. And F1 track has like 10 corners, majority of them can be seen from within the cockpit. Here, only at one SS you can have 300 or more corners, traction varies. So it's basically a different sport. There is no easy way.

CG: So perhaps it would be wise to slow down a bit?
RK: Yes, you can approach rallies a bit different. But taking part in world championship is time consuming and costs a lot of energy. And I am not interested in flying to Mexico for vacations and driving a rally car for fun. For sure, with such approach it would be easier to get a proper result in your first season, because there is higher possibility of ending the rally. And Mexico is typical elimination rally - many drivers had issues and did mistakes. I believe that proper result, if it ever comes, will not be within next coming months. Because I know where I am standing at, and I know it's not really good, when it comes to experience compared to other drivers. I think everyone who is a rally fan knows this.

CG: How much time do you need to regularly compete with top dogs?
RK: If you want to achieve anything special in this sport, you have to rally 8-10 years. Just as some had to wait for their first win. Latvala had driven for 6 years before his first rally victory. Sordo, who is a very good driver, 10 years. Of course, there are exceptions, people who are born once in a while, Ogier and Loeb, they never needed that much time. But they also never came from another sport discipline. I am gaining experience among the best ones. And in fact I can either drive peacefully and forget about SS later on, or drive faster and know in what state I currently am in. Then I can eliminate the mistakes that I made, for example with the notes. It's not the first time when I see that on narrow parts my notes aren't perfect. And when the road changes from wide to narrow, then for the first few corners I am in big trouble.
 

CG: Now we have 4 weeks break. Do you want to forget a little bit about rallying?
RK: No, why would I want to forget? Today I am going to play the videos from onboard camera that I did last year in Portugal and will spend some time watching. It would surely be nicer to come home with a rally finish and more mileage. But let's be honest - wrecked car is not a nice view for the driver, nor is for my co-pilot Maciek. But these are the rules and you either accept it or don't start at all. I start with very little experience in the hardest rallies of the world. Every rally is different, every rally is specific. As I said many times before, some stages are easier to me, some are harder. Some are easier to make notes on, some are harder in that aspect. But in order to analyse my driving, to draw conclusions, I have to drive.

 



#838 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 12 March 2014 - 22:18

Sensible interview. Might be the way it's translated, but I disagree with the idea that if he comes to the rally for the third or fourth time it will be easier, because he will know the roads, and compares it to running the same short test-stage again and again.

That is wrong, there are areas you remember, but rallies change each year, many stages switch, or changes, you might get used to the particular kind of road, but you won't learn it the same way as you will with a shorter test-stage.



#839 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,695 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 19:16

There's a shitload of R5's for Portugal, and Sordo in the third Hyundai, and even Henning Solberg in a Fiesta WRC!

The worst thing, is that Adapta (Mads Østbergs private team) have had a Mini Cooper WRC car for 2 years now, and it's only been used for 3 hillclimb events in Norway. Now it's sold to a person who will run it slower than a average national S2000 driver...

Sad to see :(


Edited by Myrvold, 14 March 2014 - 19:18.


Advertisement

#840 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 15 March 2014 - 11:02

Sensible interview. Might be the way it's translated, but I disagree with the idea that if he comes to the rally for the third or fourth time it will be easier, because he will know the roads, and compares it to running the same short test-stage again and again.

That is wrong, there are areas you remember, but rallies change each year, many stages switch, or changes, you might get used to the particular kind of road, but you won't learn it the same way as you will with a shorter test-stage.

Surely it won't ever be like on a test stage. But various drivers often say it makes a difference (on some rallies a big one). In Mexico the stages didn't change a lot in recent years, AFAIK. Robert's codriver Maciek said that he recognized many places even when he was not looking at the road ;)

 

Kubica has to find consistency, and experience paired with some stage knowledge would for sure help, possibly a lot.

 

I wonder why is he doing so much worse (reliability wise) than in WRC2. Car difference? Higher level of competitiveness? He wasn't exactly cruising in that RRC car. 


Edited by DrProzac, 15 March 2014 - 11:03.


#841 tormave

tormave
  • Member

  • 949 posts
  • Joined: January 02

Posted 15 March 2014 - 13:57

Can we get off the Kubica topic, because for a change there's some positive buzz in the world of rallying: the new R5 Pug is a really beatiful beast, the R5 DS3 is following close behind, and M-Sport reports having sold 50 R5 Fiestas already. Sure, V-dub will dominate WRC this year, but at least they have 2 competitive drivers now and all 4 major teams have at least one star driver. Hyundai will start fielding a 3rd car too. With Skoda too in the ERC, the start lists are getting more and more interesting.

 

If they'd only move the live rally video coverage to the Internet with proper splits...



#842 Option1

Option1
  • Member

  • 13,142 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 15 March 2014 - 14:48

Can we get off the Kubica topic, because for a change there's some positive buzz in the world of rallying: the new R5 Pug is a really beatiful beast, the R5 DS3 is following close behind, and M-Sport reports having sold 50 R5 Fiestas already. Sure, V-dub will dominate WRC this year, but at least they have 2 competitive drivers now and all 4 major teams have at least one star driver. Hyundai will start fielding a 3rd car too. With Skoda too in the ERC, the start lists are getting more and more interesting.

 

If they'd only move the live rally video coverage to the Internet with proper splits...

And cover more than one stage a day.

 

Neil



#843 MadYarpen

MadYarpen
  • Member

  • 3,877 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 20 March 2014 - 22:42

Yaris WRC being tested in Italy, I think.

 

https://twitter.com/...5413120/photo/1

 

 

Looks.... Weird.


Edited by MadYarpen, 20 March 2014 - 22:53.


#844 EightGear

EightGear
  • Member

  • 411 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 28 March 2014 - 15:37

ERC time again!

 

It's the Acropolis Rally, with day 1 on tarmac stages, day 2 on the well known Greek gravel.

 

Qualifying results:

 

1: K. Abbring, Peugeot 208 T16 R5
2: C. Breen, Peugeot 208 T16 R5, +0,634
3. E. Lappi, Skoda Fabia S2000, +0,752
4. K. Kajetanowicz, Ford Fiesta R5, +0,888
5. S. Wiegand, Skoda Fabia S2000, +1,134
6. B. Bouffier, Citroën DS3 RRC, +1,204
7. B. Magelhaes, Peugeot 207 S2000, +2,271
8. V. Gryazin, Ford Fiesta S2000, +2,861
9. J. Tarabus, Skoda Fabia S2000, +3,001

 

Both Peugeot's getting a good start. Nice to see Abbring is on it straight away.  :)



#845 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,519 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 31 March 2014 - 18:10

Good win by Breen on the 208's debut, although Bouffier was close behind. 

 

What's with having tarmac stages on the Acropolis?  That's just not natural.



#846 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 31 March 2014 - 20:40

Breen should learn how to stand on the roof without bending it :) Good job though. I've read that Frank Meagher was the last Irishman to win an European Championship round, 19 years ago.

 

Here's Craig with him

https://scontent-b-f...632190782_n.jpg

 

Also well done Bouffier and Kajetanowicz



#847 EightGear

EightGear
  • Member

  • 411 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 31 March 2014 - 23:10

A shame Abbring had to retire after stage 5. Quite sensational he was leading, in his second event with a 4WD car on tarmac (after Monte Carlo 2012), his first time with a new co driver (in a foreign language) on a new event with a new car with barely any testing. It will be interesting to see how he will progress this year.

Edited by EightGear, 01 April 2014 - 07:43.


#848 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 2,435 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 01 April 2014 - 05:55

^ Wow, with that in mind that is very impressive. I might have to follow his progress this year.



#849 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,894 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 01 April 2014 - 17:30

Kubica and Evans helping Al-Kuwari out:



#850 MaGiK

MaGiK
  • Member

  • 202 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:10

First proper day of Rally Portugal just started.